| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/28/2008 6:01:27 AM | "Take a group of 50 year old kids and evaluate their physical condition and you will quickly realise that measuring a persons aging process by the orbit of the earth is not a successful or useful tool, and we wont even go into using that to evaluate a persons mental maturation."
Time tripper, finally you are saying really smart things. I have been following your posts, and waiting out when that would happen.
It's not sarcasm or jealousy of your youth or an attempt to ridicule you that makes me say this. The truth is that I saw right away that you're searching, and that you're the type of person who searches for answers by talking her thoughts out. It's a type of learning style. I knew you were not dumb, don't ask me how I knew that -- maybe I assumed that falsely, or not falsely but without real merit in the assumption, only because I saw you were searching, and that alone is trait I value in others as much as in myself?
So then I got interested how long it would take for you to peel off the confusion of your jumbled thoughts, put the thoughts in perspective and see with some clarity. I am happy to see that you're there, finally.
Well done.
(I hope to god I don't sound condescending.) | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/28/2008 10:56:10 AM |
LSD and time arguments were never that silly....ummm...donut...etc. Visuals sometimes were.... BUT not the inside of the TIME you were in. You could easily lose your identity and then what the hell did TIME matter. Time is firstly a luxury, then possibly a threat. Explore, enjoy, explore...then let go
never heard a good lsd time argument ..... they all were silly
outside of just showing that moments don't have set time durations and it sort of comes down to your personal perspective in this conscious life.
Consciousness being the key ... in the dream state time seems to have no relativity.
lsd was an attempt to reach a dream state ... used originally to fix psychosis and is being lobbied to be legal to use again in psychiatry.
as for the donut ... you should watch The Simpson's more .....
time stops at the thought of a donut.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/28/2008 9:29:00 PM | | Dreams are far more related to truth than truth experienced in relative and concious time. Any time, any place, anywhere. Time is the confusion that is the individual pondering time. No, LSD arguments were not ALL silly. Only the silly few who underestimated the power of vision that LSD could generate. LSD never had anything to do with personal perspective. That effectively ended when you injested. You were shot out of personal perspective to a far more frightening realization. You did not matter. But outside of your shell (body and mind) a heck of a lot was happening. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/29/2008 10:34:50 AM | Sorry I haven't been around to flaunt my "ignorance" on the subject. Although when it comes to physics I claim most who study it seriously are knowingly ignorant and wouldn't claim otherwise. I have actually thought about this much more seriously than you might think.
Now as to my statement "Time is an ordering of irreversible events". One major problem I have with the way Quantum mechanics is thought about is that the experiments you hear about occur in relative isolation. Funky things happen when systems are in isolation. These funky things are what we know as quantum effects. In reality no system can be effectively isolated for more than a few fractions of a second and any system except for the whole universe must be coupled to an environment. This environment acts on the system continuously. The mixing of these two systems is irreversible in the sense that given a system at the present time, we can not trace the state back to see what it was at a past time. This is due to the choice that is inherent in the quantum measurement process.
So in fact when I made my statement I knew exactly what I meant to say.
If you want to read more about such things may I suggest the website
http://www.decoherence.de/
These people are very smart and think about these things much more than we do. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/29/2008 1:28:22 PM | Decoherence is in some ways like rumsfeldian logic where one tries to isolate the known unknowns from the unknown knowns and seek unknown knowns (of course in the process you risk ignoring unknown unknowns. I mean -- what else can you do with those!)
Dooooooooooonuuuuuuuuuuuts.......... | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/29/2008 2:28:32 PM | | TIME IS IF ITS NOT BEEN SAID BEFORE THE GREATEST GIVE YOU CAN RECEIVE | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/29/2008 2:57:46 PM |
Dreams are far more related to truth than truth experienced in relative and concious time
truth is truth is truth
Time is the confusion that is the individual pondering time.
that is confusion all right and takes up time but is not time in itself.
No, LSD arguments were not ALL silly..
I didn't say all lsd arguements were silly .... I said all time lsd arguments were silly ...
so far ... and I'm still waiting for a good one.
LSD never had anything to do with personal perspective
you obviously didn't understand what I said in that sentance ... try reading it again.
the personal perspective has to do with time durations of moments .....
you are too focused on lsd and not enough trying to understand time. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/29/2008 6:33:21 PM | Ah, the classic, what you are saying makes no sense argument. Except you are applying it to a whole field of study. I understand and accept that many physicists DON'T AGREE that this is the proper way to interpret QM but I know you can provide a better argument than that.
I admit that the idea that complete information about a quantum system is unattainable is fairly unpalatable but I find it to be better than the alternative. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/30/2008 8:40:39 PM | | Thorb....You didn't get what I said...time on LSD had no meaning. None. Hard to understand but true. LSD is not part of my present TIME but in the puzzling past it was very instructional. What did I read in another review on a book of Time today? Even the present moment is gone before recording can happen. So are we engaged and over here is TIME? Are we in? Out? While in an altered state there is only the experiencing, no divisions between yourself and perception. Truth is truth is truth. Not often. Truth hurts and is hardly ever explored. But Time surely is. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 12/3/2008 7:01:29 PM | If we are going to get into this properly we need to start looking at the thermodynamic arrow of time which is a theory that says roughly that systems become more disorganised as time passes.
Such that, the total disorganisation of the universe only becomes greater in forwards time and that the direction of time is signified by this.
Time is an invention that allows us to talk about the rate at which changes occur, but we seem to pin those relatively to the number of vibrations of a ceasium atom and call so many wavelengths of this vibration one S.I. unit of 1 second.
Time is an illusion created by the changing environment around us and by our minds in which to place these relative changes in context with each other, in which we need to create relative rates of change to be able to meaningfully make sense of anything in a scientific or realistic fashion. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 12/3/2008 9:23:07 PM | you may have read ... the moment was gone
but did you experience it leaving
or do you find that whenever you think about it
you are in the present moment.
there is no time duration denoted to a moment.
that is a personal perspective.
that is what real ... true ... time is.
the makeup of the moment of now.
everything else is ... age ... speed ... distance ... basicly measurements for working in this conscious life
in dreams we don't need that.
so it does not exist
in at least one third of our lives ... time does not exist. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 12/3/2008 10:08:08 PM | | Very glad we measure time. Give yourself a minute, an hour, a nano-second without any orientation to where you are. You cannot try this willingly. But should you experience this state, you will kiss your clock and calender when you return. You are only given as much as you can bear. After that, have fun debating and contemplating. P.S....I don't wear a watch. But I have strategies. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 12/4/2008 8:23:45 AM | I spent over 20 years in the 70's to in the 90's without wearing a watch.
we ... like all of life ... have what you can call an internal clock and it is quite accurate.
as for not being oriented as to where you are .... I see no reason to kiss a clock or calender after I stopped being lost
being lost .... has nothing to do with time.
I think everyone at one point in their life has been truly lost.
I have yet to find any reason to kiss a calender even when for a time I had no idea what day it was ... it really wasn't that important. Recognizing people was important ... not time. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 12/4/2008 9:19:27 PM | | Actually your point is my point. So be it. Yet, having no sense of time passing is not a blessing. Never. Check out old age and it's infirmities. Dementia, etc. The passage of time is kosher when you are aware. It presents challenges but they are sane challenges. | |
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