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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 9:20:13 PM | I would not take him back just yet. He has a lot to show for the change he claims he is making before he can win your trust and that isn't easy once it's been destroyed.
I always find that most of the time, unless you share children or something, you're best to cut these types loose. They are damaging and abusive and rarely change overnight. If ever. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 9:23:29 PM | Ben_Raines
thanks for your post so many people don't really beleive domestic violence can lead to a women being killed nice to hear a cop say it
thanks | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 9:32:05 PM | i don't know if someone with Anger issues, or the inability to control impulse behaviors that result from anger, can change. As a survivor of childhood abuse, I do know that my father isn't angry any more but that may be because the triggers aren't there any more. However he never took responsibility for any actions and doesn't see what the big deal was. I've worked with people who have addictions, and many of them were angry and had troubles controlling impulses, the success rate of even the most successful programs is 6%. Everyone experiences anger, it is a cover for deeper emotions of sadness and other hard emotions. I've worked with anger management, and I have seen some successes, be them small and were far and few between. And who knows if it lasted or if they were able to logically quell the impulses as a survival mechanism.
When a behavior is unsuccessful a person will not use it. but will find other ways to get the same results. I am allergic to angry outbursts and will do anything to avoid people who behave this way. I know the danger all to well and the progression of the behavior as they feel more comfortable to show it. If they didn't start with the behavior, it shows that they can hide it for a time, scary. Its different if a person is angry and expresses it irrationally in a moment where they can't cope with something that has happened to them. And there is a different energy to that then a person who is chronically angry and hides it. Those who have lived through abuse will know what i'm talking about, because you become hypersensitive to the energy of them. can spot them a mile away so to say. They no longer identify with the deep feelings they are protecting, and are completely absorbed by the anger and hyper focused for issues to unleash it on.
I truly believe that the only way for people to stop using anger is for the rest of us to say no till they have absolutely no where to vent it. People only use successful behaviors. If its unsuccessful? Say No to this man in no uncertain terms and also tell him you hope anyone he is ever with again that if he does that you hope that they say no too. Its not acceptable period....
crazylilting | |
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ya472
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Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 29 | |
| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 9:45:25 PM | but calls and says he realizes he's an ***hole
and that he's into therapy and determined to get it together.
He wants me to take him back.
An alcoholic requires much therapy before they can admit they are, and then, they are NOT CURED.
A drug addict (any addict) will promise ANYTHING, for the next opportunity for a fix.
People who brag how good they are, AREN'T.
What makes this man DIFFERENT and SPECIAL ?
Like it was suggested by another POST, get medical documentation. It should take a year or two.
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Tramp
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Joined: 2/8/2007
Msg: 30 | |
| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 9:57:22 PM | Oh yes he needs help, you have already helped him more than you know.
He has had a problem, the problem was you.
You wrote that for a year it was great, lived the good times....then small arguments, later the pushing....
Well, slowly he realized you are not what he needs, you are not the person he thought you were, for what ever reason..... He cares about you, but he feels trapped, does not know how to tell you he does not want you, anger is his way of showing you he wants out.
Keep helping him, stay away; he is going to be angry, mad frustrated, does not know where and whom to trust, it takes time, but he will be ok, so will you. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 10:03:08 PM | I'm going to take the devils advocate approach. I think there is an organic cause here, and it might be something that was overlooked medically.
First, think back to the day when the behavioral change started.
Then, I want you to talk to your ex. I want you specifically ask him if he had a small accident or injury to the left side of his head, occurring in the months (up to a year) before this drastic change in behavior.
I believe that, while there may have been a focal point in his relationship with you that might cause him to be angry, the suddenness of onset and its quick escalation are reason to suspect that this is more than mere simple behavior management issue that can be corrected with counseling.
IF you please PM me with his response, I will tell you why, and what must be done to correct the malfunction in his brain causing this excessive aggression.
If there is indeed an organic reason, its *very* important that he see a neurologist. The problem leads to a natural deterioration that has, in many cases, resulted in suicide attempts.
Some of those attempts are successful. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 10:04:43 PM | While I don't agree with everyone {tramp} here.....I agree that the guy needs
some help or the situation will get much worse. If he's really serious about
getting that help......tell him to look you up after he's gotten it, and the
situation is much more under control.......sounds like you could use some
time apart anways.....and if it's "meant to be" it still will later on. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 10:06:50 PM | Some have said on here that it would take years for this guy to heal. That is what I understand as well. People with this kind of behavioral problem so easily fall back into their old habit patterns (relapse) because it's a part of their very makeup and that's what is so difficult to straighten up. How do you change something that has been weaved into the fabric of your identity? A tough one, at the very least. So, yes, we're talking years.
Anger in itself isn't bad, and it has its place in emotions and drive, but a rage-aholic or control freak is altogether another thing and they will almost always get worse and your welfare will eventually end up at stake.
I would say drop him like a hot potato and get your life in gear.  | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 10:06:58 PM | This is textbook for the DV guys. Starts out fine, but develops into the combined control/anger management issues, then eventually explodes into violence.
They then are sorry, but you drove them to it - you shouldn't have pushed their buttons.
Maybe you've got problems that need to work out - he'll stay with you, of course, but there might be something wrong with your sanity...
Eventually, you're trapped - too scared to leave, to scared to stay...
The reality is that none of his behavior is his fault - just ask him. If you were only more sensitive to his needs, more caring, a better girlfriend, more trustworthy, whatever....
______________________________________________________
Whether or not he's changed, he will go right back to the old behavior once he's got you back.
His redemption doesn't lie with you, it lies with himself - don't get back with him, you'll only regret it. | |
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Tramp
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Joined: 2/8/2007
Msg: 35 | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 10:11:05 PM | Being scared is hard...I do believe people can change...Time will tell.
I hope you find the right answer...it's somewhere in your heart. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/27/2007 10:21:37 PM | Just like the last person said, time will tell. Anger is sometimes used as a defence to keep from getting too close or is a response to an issue from thier past.
Either emotionally or physically, anger is a symptom of a deeper issue and is usually accompanied by other character defects.
Unless a person looks deep within themselves to the root of the anger, and then makes an effort to deal with what they find there, they will not change.
Only about ten percent of people with these problems will ever do enough work on themselves to eliminate the problem. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 5:31:40 PM | Thank you to everyone who's taken time out to offer advice!
And thank you, Ben, for your comments.
I didn't realize that being kicked out is part of a cycle. I've never been in a relationship like this, and am naive. My ex husband, though we parted, we remained respectful. We just came to a point where we wanted different things.
I am going to do research on domestic abuse, though I believed that if he didn't hit me, then it wasn't abuse. You are very wise!
He called today and told me that he went to his first therapist visit, and she told him that he needed to realize he wasn't such a bad guy and that he didn't need medication. I don't agree. I believe he does need medication for rage. But the thing is is that he's so charming with everyone else but me. No one else has seen his rage. I did a background check on him and found out that he had a restraining order years ago!
I feel so foolish. I'm educated, consider myself a strong woman and yet I let myself fall in love with a man who has treated me so badly, and I keep thinking that maybe part of it is my fault. When he got angry, I wouldn't get involved in the fight. I would tell him that I would talk to him when he calmed down. I hate chaos. Maybe if I had tried to calm him down...hell, I don't know. It baffles me that he can be so charming and well liked by everyone, and then turn around and be a complete beast with me. I know people don't believe me. I can see it in their eyes. And there are two sides to every issue, isn't there?
Anyhow, now I realize that I can not have him around me right now. You and everyone else on here has given me much support and I can't thank you enough! I believe you may have saved my life.
Much love and appreciation,
Liz. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 5:45:22 PM | "I am going to do research on domestic abuse, though I believed that if he didn't hit me, then it wasn't abuse."
Do the research on domestic violence. Abuse isn't always just hitting, he yelled at you and ran you down, mental abuse is still abuse. Also you were afraid he was going to hit you. That's a thin line, be thankful it wasn't crossed. This has all the signs of potential physical abuse.
This guy fits the classic stereotype of an abuser. They are charming when they're not angry and nearly always apologetic, promising it'll never happen again.
If he's not with a good therapist, then he won't get the help he needs. I am only asking, but do you think it's wise to be in contact with him while he's going through therapy? I wouldn't think it would be, but that's only my opinion.
My ex was only abusive once, just one time and it nearly cost me my life and bought him a ticket to prison for life. I'm seeing the same behavior and personality problems, so I'm sorry if I seem a little extra protective of you and your mental and physical well being.
I'd also contact a women's shelter, not to GO there, but they can likely provide excellent reading material and perhaps you can talk to a counselor just for some advice.
Err on the side of caution, volatile people can explode without warning and the effects can be tragic.
Wish you all the best.
Just as an afterthought....I was the proverbial "good wife". Never cheated, never did anything, was always cowtowing and walking on eggshells....til I realized how terrified I was and it was time to get out. You don't need to feel you're responsible somehow for his behavior OR his anger. You're just the outlet/target for it. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 41 | |
| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 5:54:50 PM | He was too manipulating to believe. Perhaps this is another elaborate con job
and you'll never know for sure. Therapy is good, but I'm suspicious if he's
doing it for the right reasons. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 6:36:22 PM | I went through anger management years ago.
takes a while to identify the emotion (a guy thing, we know emotions, like we know ballet)
takes a while to change the way you handle your anger.
takes a lot of work and time.
anger is a secondary emotion that usually masks the real (Primary)emotion. Usually it's fear, he may be insecure about your relationship and he fears losing you so he strikes out at you (fight or flight), this also makes you feel as bad as he feels about himself. it's a lot easier then admitting your scared to anyone because men don't get scared and they certainly don't admit it because it shows weakness. We're taught from birth men don't cry, men don't get scared...blah blah blah.
If your afraid there is a reason and you should not disregard your intuition. fear is a warning from your mind/higher power/ body.....what ever
he needs time to deal with this. you need to be safe. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 6:47:29 PM | Liz-
Working in the Law Enforcement field for 25 plus years, I've dealt with these type of issue's my entire career. Can people change? Yes, in some cases, I've seen it work. I'd say that 95% of the time, they go back to their past ways. As Dr. Phil says- past behavior predicts future behavior. Anger issues at such a young age, is not good. If you were my daughter or, sister my advice would be, run, and don't look back. If you are giving up your friends for this guy, is that how you'd want your daughter to be treated in the future if she were in your shoe's?
What next, not talking with your family members. He's a control freak. RUN  | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 8:51:35 PM | Remember that exact phrase.
Remember that specific moment in time when you were terrified.
Allow your emotions to guide you to safety.
Face the fact that your relationship became rooted in & tainted with VIOLENCE.
Once any partner (female or male) cross into actions of violence (throwing objects, screaming in a face, calling names, paranoia) then the relationship is OFFICIALLY OVER....
IT becomes a WAR ZONE.
ZENTIMES YOU NAILED IT...WAY TO GO
It's best to leave this alone..    | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 9:00:41 PM | | Go with your gut hun, he was getting worse over time, "escalating" is the word and I have no doubt he would have become physical with you. He may be able to change, with therapy, no doubt. But thats a rarity. The operative word is "may"... can you honestly be certain he wont start all over again, either in small ways or where he left off? This is your safety and emotional and physical health we are talkin about. I also recommend you get some input from your nearest womens center, they will have the unbiased information and support you ought to avail yourself of. GOOD LUCK! | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 9:06:33 PM | PS .... based on what some have said here I feel I need to add:
...He and his health are NOT your responsibility. You gotta take care of you. Good for him if hes healing, but you dont want to put yourself at risk... hes had a lifetime to learn this behavior, versus a few months or a year of therapy once a month. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 9:23:50 PM | I'll put my 2 cts worth in on this one too--by the way, Liz, there are some other good threads on PoF about this subject. (abuse) Very few people (I almost said women, because women are usually the abused ones and men the abusers, but not always) start out on the first date being beaten and stay in the relationship.
Abuse usually starts small and grows as the abuser begins to make YOU responsible for their happiness--cutting out your friends/family--spending all your time with them, then they accuse you of cheating when it is a physical impossibility, you're either at work or with them. They scream and yell and call you makes, start to throw things, then destroy things, throw things at you, then hit you>>>>>>>all the way up to putting you in the hospital or the morgue.'
The worst part is that the victims usually go along with this, are convinced that they are at fault, because they didn't make him happy, and anyway, they are worthless and no other man would have them, and he may not be "perfect" but it's better than being alone....etc.
SET APPROPRIATE boundaries in any relationship. From the first. If they want to abuse you and step across the line in the sand and you tolerate it and "fall for" their "apologies" and "I'll never do it again" THEY WILL.
Anger mananagement and counseling have helped people, but it takes commitment and years to change someting that has been ingrained into these people their entire lives.
Move on safely with your life and find someone who deserves you. Good luck and God bless. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 10:27:02 PM | Just a quick followup to my previous post. There is indeed reason to suspect occult mechanical cause for left temporal lobe damage in the OPs ex.
People should be really thinking about this possibility. Brain damage need not be mechanical, it can just as well be an acute stress event. Common mechanical causes: car accident, bike accidents where the patient strikes the left side of their head, causing concussion, sometimes temporary unconsciousness. Many times, these injuries occur in childhood or adolescence and are forgotten, until a clinician inquires in the course of diagnostic evaluation. This is the setup. Sometimes, the injury partially heals, until a following acute stress episode (emotional, disease, major life change, etc) triggers the flooding of anger neurochemicals - without the proper shutoff switches functioning at the receptors in the left temporal lobe.
The OPs ex had a very significant acute stress event as well. Either one could have resulted in this condition of trigger induced anger overactivity.
Co-symptoms: reading and language processing, sometimes memory formation/processing as well.
Typical: the person finds themselves having problems talking clearly, they may hesitate or stumble before responding. They may have problems understanding or remembering discussion, especially under emotional duress (ex: during an argument).
The OP unwittingly became the focal point of the anger. It could just as well been directed at a coworker/boss or someone else (like a neighbor or nuclear family member) who was in social conflict with the OP ex.
Treatment is typically a drug, plus behavioral conditioning.
NOTE: when mechanical or severe stress damage is the culprit (and not simpler behavioral erosion), then the use of ONLY behavioral modifications WILL NOT WORK.
The patient will return to anger control issues when additional, even minor, stress induced damage occurs to this portion of the brain. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 10:46:45 PM | Sombient, obviously you are conversant in medical terms, however, as a retired Registered Nurse Practitioner with quite a bit of neurological experience (years working with head and spinal cord injuries as well as cancer of the brain) even if he DOES have brain damage, quite frankly, the OP doesn't have to deal with the violence, whatever the cause.
If this was a long standing marriage and her husband developed an organic cause for any strange behavior I would suggest that they get neurological evaluation ASAP if this was a sudden problem, but apparently from her post, his abuse was on-going and getting worse.
My husband bumped his head slightly once, and several weeks later started having horrible head aches, and slight mental status changes--he had a subdural hematoma (blood clot between the skull and the brain) which I picked up by the subtle mental status changes. I ended up having to "stomp my foot" to get the physicans to do a CAT scan which showed the problem and brought forth an apology from the physicians. If his "strange behavior" had included a SUDDEN appearance of angry outbursts and paranoia in a man who had never exibited these traits I would also have sought neurological referral, but that doesn't seem to be the case here, this man apparently has had a problem for the duration of the relationship which is getting worse.
I can say also that although I loved my husband dearly, if he had been violent after a brain injury in a car wreck, I would not have continued to live with him and submit to abuse. I wouldn't have thrown him out on the street in that state, but I would not have endured violence either. Regardless of the cause. | |
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| Anger question for the guys
Posted: 2/28/2007 10:56:08 PM |
The first year we were together it was great, but then out of the blue one day he blows up over nothing.
This is what the OP wrote in her initial post to this thread. This was a condition of sudden onset. I recommend to the OP that she suggest he be evaluated by a neurologist. | |
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