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| Politics At It's Best Posted: 3/24/2007 8:10:44 AM | I couldn't agree more with you tort2.
Msg: 21
Acknowledging as we must, that the attorney generals serve at the pleasure of the President, I fail to see the rational behind the hysterics over the firings.
To make a mountain out of a mole hill.
It is just another attempt by the democrats to defame President Bush and his administration, because they are getting nowhere on what they promised their districts.
You see if they defame him, they are hoping to win public opinion. In hopes of getting our votes. Just like the "Pork" ($ Millions) they added to the war bill in hopes of buying votes. Just like the Democrats attempt to get an exta set in the House for Utah and one for DC (which is about to die).
MY FREEDOM IS NOT FOR SELL.
Todate congress has spent $$$ and hours on endless end runs that have failed. The Democrats are tring to play football but they don't have any Roger Starbucks'. Rather than get on the major issue at hand.
I loved the "Major Tong to Ground Control" approach by the way.
I didn't drink the kool-aid.
Cheers,
"Support Our Troops"
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| Finally, two patriots besides myself.. Posted: 3/24/2007 8:19:28 AM | It does hearten me to see that you and Sombient have not lost your senses of patriotism and rationality. Its one thing for non-United States citizens to criticize out government (jealousy, of course), but for Americans to display wanton and unabashed ignorance as to the workings of our government (i.e. the Constitutional framework), is sad beyond sad.
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/24/2007 10:29:05 AM | | It seems funny to me Tort you put the Fifth admendment up to back your arguement that nothing was done wrong when this administration has abused it to no end. Warrentless wire-tap, sneak and peak warrents, etc.,,,all said legal by ypur loved Republicians... | |
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| Finally, two patriots besides myself.. Posted: 3/24/2007 10:36:14 AM | | I find it amazing you can only comment on the firing of Iglesias. Why were the others fired? And just today, it has been shown the plan was signed off by Gonzoles to fire them, even tho he said he had nothing to do with it. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/24/2007 11:17:55 AM | It was the memo titled "Draft Talking Point", from the Justice Department spokewoman Scolinos the one with the idea to focus the attention over the Clinton's administration replacing all of the total US District Attorneys to minimize the present purgue. In 1981, Reagan's first year in office, 71 of 93 district attorneys were replaced. In 1993, Clinton's first year in office, 80 of 93 district attorneyswere replaced. On the first two years of each presidency, Reagan changed 89 of 93, Clinton had 89 of 93 and this Bush 88 of 93 total district offices. Being H.W Bush, Vice-President during Reagan two terms, no major changes were needed. As a matter of fact, Bush father lost his second term for the same reasons he won in the 1988 elections. In the words of Barbara Bush "we lost because the people really wanted a change"... after "twelve years of Republican presidency". The tradition here was broke because the Clinton administration demanded for the resignation inmediatly, without smooth transition/previous notice and Janet Reno was more radical. The significant difference is not on the numbers but, the reason behind and time frame to be effective. While all of them have been politically motivated in order to support domestic/international agenda, this administration hold the all times record for undermining and limiting civil liberties with hidden agenda in the name of national security with a sistematic hipocret double standard of political games and manipulations. Incompetence have not been in all cases. As just one example. It is a policy from the federal government the lack of enforcerment of the law and promotion of illegals, not different from the one under Clinton two terms. CA is considered to hold the highest number of illegal alliens. Yet, her District Attorney was displaced becasue soft on illegal issues meanwhile fight political corruption. As last friday, documents revealed of participation from US General Attorney discussing a five-step plan for carrying out the firings. Allegations that Gonzales previously denied. He signed off the decisions, he lied to the Congress and the public. As last saturday, Dan Barttlet, counselour to the President, said Bush continues to support Gonzalez despites the latest disclosures.
Yahoo/news, LA Times, Washington Post. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/24/2007 1:24:25 PM | Nashville Bill, allow me a moment to explain some of the Amendments to our Constitution.
In your post (message 53) you wrote:
"It seems funny to me Tort you put the Fifth admendment up to back your arguement that nothing was done wrong when this administration has abused it to no end. Warrentless wire-tap, sneak and peak warrents, etc.,,,all said legal by ypur loved Republicians... "
First of all, for your edification, the Fifth Amendment states the following:
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
How has the Administration abused the Fifth Amendment??
With respect to your point concerning warrant less wiretaps, you are of course referring to the Fourth Amendment and its prohibition against unreasonable search by the government. That issue has been discussed ad-nauseum in another thread, and I have pointed out clearly with abundant cases, as well as references to the Constitution, how the Patriot Act codifies a power that the Executive branch has historically enjoyed when defending the country against foreign aggression or in time of war.
Further, you used the expression "...peak warrents...” What in the name of all that is Holy is "Peak Warrents"?
Glad to be of help. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/24/2007 2:04:42 PM |
How has the Administration abused the Fifth Amendment??
Here:
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/articles_2004/fifth_amendment_denied.html
And here:
http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/071406-suits.html
And here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory10.html
And here:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/01/12/bush_must_honor_the_rule_of_law/
And here:
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-21-03.html
How many more examples do you need?
With respect to your point concerning warrant less wiretaps, you are of course referring to the Fourth Amendment and its prohibition against unreasonable search by the government. That issue has been discussed ad-nauseum in another thread, and I have pointed out clearly with abundant cases, as well as references to the Constitution, how the Patriot Act codifies a power that the Executive branch has historically enjoyed when defending the country against foreign aggression or in time of war.
And every single one of your examples was refuted. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/24/2007 2:36:18 PM | The first link you provide (http://reclaimdemocracy.org/articles_2004/fifth_amendment_denied.html) is nothing more than a collection of hysterical and conclusory statements without one scintilla of legal authority to back them up (i.e. "...But the slapdash preliminary hearings for the first four of some 600 Guantanamo detainees violated basic tenets of fairness. "
What? I can hardly wait to see the other links you provided.
Link number 2: http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/071406-suits.html
This is ridiculous. In your above post, you suggested that the Administration has violated the Fifth Amendment (I am inferring that such alleged violations are ongoing). In the second link you provided, all that I see concerning the Fifth Amendment is a reference to one of the claims alleged by Mr. and Mrs. Palme in their lawsuit. That is not a conclusion that a violation has occurred. Those are allegations that have to be proved in a court of law (assuming it gets to that stage).
You do know the difference between an UNPROVED allegation and a fact, right?
Next: http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory10.html
"...Those who "smuggle" their own money out of the country may now see it seized. The administration has worked to extend the despotic power of eminent domain, which allows the government to seize property for such unconstitutional purposes as federal production of interstate electrical lines."
You have got to be kidding. "...unconstitutional purposes as federal production of interstate electrical lines."
You sure you have read all these links???
I think that should be enough. Next time you rush and provide bare links without a comment on your part, don't assume the reader (me) won't access those links and read them. If you want the reader to take your comments more seriously, provide links to serious websites (such as the NY Times, Washington Post and Times, CNN), and not personal websites of fringe, delusional lunatics. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 6:07:44 AM | Tort .. this will be my last response to this thread .. I find it BORING .. That said .. you keep ladling on the legal precedents that butress your points .. with most having valid response to the questions at hand .. but you keep missing the WHY in this scandal ..
It doesn't matter if the President had the right to fire these men .. it doesn't matter if he did it at the beginning of his term or in the middle or at the end .. (he can do as he pleases) .. it's his perrogative ...
IT DOES MATTER (POLITICALLY) IF THEY WERE FIRED IN A CONCERTED BACKDOOR EFFORT BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND POLITICAL OPPERATIVES (ie ROVE) AND THE REASONS BEHIND THE FIRINGS WERE FOUND OUT TO BE INVALID AND UNTRUE ..
You keep bringing up Iglesias .. and claiming dereliction to duty (not proven .. just alledged) as an all encompassing blanket that covers all involved .. (not true) .. but when asked about the others that were not tarred by such allegations .. you merely claim that the President has the right to fire anyone for any reason .. (true)
The trouble with you argument is that the other prosecuters were defamed by the public announcements by the AG and the White House that they were fired for incompetence .. which wasn't true .. the plot thickens when it's revealed that instead of being incompetent .. the prosecuters were at the top of their class in convictions obtained .. etc .. it gets even soupier when AG Gonzalez claims no knowledge of the firings and then is caught in a web of lies and is guilty of misleading Congress ..
Misleading is a nice way to say LYING ...
In short .. you have legal precedent to fire these men and women .. but politically the whole incident smells up the place .. it's obvious to anyone with an open mind that the system (although legal) was abused ... the AG of the US LIED about his participation in these firings .. the White House emails .. (even in redacted form) include very troubling questions about the nature and substance behind these firings ... Karl Rove (again) being at the center of the controversy ..
The Attorney General is supposed to be above politics .. it is clear .. that this was NOT the case here ...
Again .. the President can fire anyone he chooses for any reason ... but there can be political fallout .. for example: we all can do the same thing by yelling "fire!" in a darkened movie house .. but there are CONSEQUENCES ...
The consequences in this case will be the eventual firing of the AG .. the depositions and direct testimony of Karl Rove .. Harriet Meirs .. AG Gonzalez and a dozen others ... all under oath and on the record ..
The cover up and lies behind this mess (as in all scandals) are more troubling than the actual deed itself .. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 6:18:28 AM | The Attorney General is supposed to be above politics .. it is clear .. that this was NOT the case here
they never are......ever | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 6:37:50 AM | I certainly hope you find time in your leisure to provide examples instead of speculation and fiction.
Mustbe, you started off with the following:
"It doesn't matter if the President had the right to fire these men ...IT DOES MATTER (POLITICALLY) IF THEY WERE FIRED IN A CONCERTED BACKDOOR EFFORT BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND POLITICAL OPPERATIVES (ie ROVE) AND THE REASONS BEHIND THE FIRINGS WERE FOUND OUT TO BE INVALID AND UNTRUE .."
Ok, assuming that is true, then please provide what the real reason was (and a link from the NYTimes, CNN, Fox, USA, WSJ, Drudge-not some obscure, lunatic blog) for the firings. Provide facts please, and not continued conspiracy theories on your part without a serious source.
Next, you wrote:
"The trouble with you argument is that the other prosecuters were defamed by the public announcements by the AG and the White House that they were fired for incompetence .. which wasn't true .. the plot thickens when it's revealed that instead of being incompetent .. the prosecuters were at the top of their class in convictions obtained .. etc .. it gets even soupier when AG Gonzalez claims no knowledge of the firings and then is caught in a web of lies and is guilty of misleading Congress .."
Unless there is some obvious conflict with a superior, or gaffe, just about anybody in any line of work will get an "ok to good" review in their annual job performance review. Aren't you in some line of work were you have to go over a job review? If so, you would know that a 'good' review in and of itself means nothing. And the fact that what I have posted so far is legal and proper by the standards of the department DOES mean something; regardless of your desire to find some untoward reasons behind what was a legal firing. And if you bother to read the reasons provided, you will see that there was a valid reason for the firings (you may not like it, but they exist).
Next, you wrote:
"The consequences in this case will be the eventual firing of the AG .. the depositions and direct testimony of Karl Rove .. Harriet Meirs .. AG Gonzalez and a dozen others ... all under oath and on the record ..
The cover up and lies behind this mess (as in all scandals) are more troubling than the actual deed itself .. "
First of all, there will be NO testimony of the parties mentioned. Executive Privilege will be upheld by the Supreme Court, therefore your remaining points are pure speculation.
It seems clear to me and others on this board, that this witch hunt of the left-wing, treasonous element in the Democratic party and others will stop at nothing to find fault with the Administration no matter what it does. Therefore, I suppose you may as well continue to enjoy your conspiracy theories all you want.
Just save room for dessert. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 7:09:50 AM |
think that should be enough. Next time you rush and provide bare links without a comment on your part, don't assume the reader (me) won't access those links and read them. If you want the reader to take your comments more seriously, provide links to serious websites (such as the NY Times, Washington Post and Times, CNN), and not personal websites of fringe, delusional lunatics.
Fringe, delusional lunatics. The catch phrase Bush supporters use for any source that gives any criticism of Bush. Despite your claims, though, you know that the sources I use are legitimate organizations and/or news providers.
I notice that you handpicked the sources you prefer, and they are all ones that are known to have been easy on Bush. I also have no doubts that if someone did bother to get articles from those sources, you would then dismiss the writers of those articles, and then handpick the writers you would accept as 'legitimate' sources. This, of course, is a classic manuever for trying to win arguments that were lost from the start; continually making new conditions whenever the old ones have been met. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 7:41:24 AM | It seems clear to me and others on this board, that this witch hunt of the left-wing, treasonous element in the Democratic party and others will stop at nothing to find fault with the Administration no matter what it does. Therefore, I suppose you may as well continue to enjoy your conspiracy theories all you want. ___________
The comments and LAW posted are intersting. However.... The Torture, Executioner AG will be out with in the month. Not a conspiracy. How do we know this? GWB is backing him and he "done heck of a job" | |
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| Politics At It's Best Posted: 3/25/2007 8:35:23 AM | It is just another attempt by the democrats to defame President Bush and his administration, because they are getting nowhere on what they promised their districts. ------------------------------------Myfirstlove
No concern, Patriot Act? Only the 5th? Congress has no hearing or review of appointments. Thank you someone in Arin Spectors office (Bret Tolman)
What happened to Bret Tolman? | |
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| Politics At It's Best Posted: 3/25/2007 12:10:29 PM | 15 minutes ago, President Bush and VP****Cheney managed to get their hands on on a couple of m-16's and lots of ammunition. They walked up and down Pennsylvania ave shooting people at random. The police finally were able to disarm them and have arrested them.
14 minutes ago a poster on POF offered the legal opinion that the shootings by President Bush and VP Cheney were within their powers under the Patriot act and that their arrests were unlawful and politically motivated.
I think we got your number. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 1:41:03 PM |
Unless there is some obvious conflict with a superior, or gaffe, just about anybody in any line of work will get an "ok to good" review in their annual job performance review. Except Iglesias did not get a simple 'ok to good' review. Iglesias was consistently considered to be superior (a 'real up and comer' to many Republicans, at least until Dominici got his 'hooks into the water'), so much so that he was 'on the list' for assignment to the DC AG offices. His name didn't even appear on the list of those to be fired until the last minute and was the last one added.
The obvious conclusion is that he just wasn't a loyal and sufficiently partisan Republican (and he is a Republican you know) for the 'Bushies'' tastes (after all, with all the controversy around Republican behaviour regarding elections, especially the Presidential one's, being able to nail some Democrats would have made, in Republican eyes, good fodder for the potential 'swing' states like NM).
I notice you still haven't been able to come up with anything to discredited the others. Avoiding the question? | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 2:30:32 PM | Mungojoe, you really, really need to READ CAREFULLY before you post on a particular matter. In the matter of Mr. Iglesias, he had the admission of several individuals who admitted falsifying voter registrations in order to earn commissions. That is a crime. Instead of doing what any COMPETENT prosecutor would do (present the evidence to a grand jury) he declined and instead, opted to consider the task force (referenced in prior posts).
Therefore, there is NO OBVIOUS conclusion to be drawn by REASONABLE individuals looking at Mr. Iglesias' dismissal other than the reasons I (tm) have posted.
As far as the others, (AGs), my answer is "who cares?"
I have told you and the other wonderful members of POF (Canadians and Americans) that these lawyers serve at the President's prerogative. He can fire them for a good reason; bad reason or no reason.
Do you understand now? | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 3:00:38 PM | Mungojoe, you really, really need to READ CAREFULLY before you post on a particular matter. In the matter of Mr. Iglesias, he had the admission of several individuals who admitted falsifying voter registrations in order to earn commissions. That is a crime. Instead of doing what any COMPETENT prosecutor would do (present the evidence to a grand jury) he declined and instead, opted to consider the task force (referenced in prior posts). And Iglesias has stated that he did not have sufficient evidence of intent (to influence the outcome of the elections, a requirement to obtain a conviction, but only of personal monetary gain), hence , further investigation of the matter to attempt to uncover the source of the commissions (those were the people who may have had intent to influence the elections).
He has also stated that he referred the matter to the AG offices and they no interest in proceeding otherwise.
The AG offices have no interest, he has insufficient evidence of intent (you do understand the relevance of intent don't you?). The matter was a non-issue until a certain senior Republicans began to make phone calls to Rove (mainly) and Cheney's office. The conclusion is obvious to anyone other than hardcore "Bushies".
I have told you and the other wonderful members of POF (Canadians and Americans) that these lawyers serve at the President's prerogative. He can fire them for a good reason; bad reason or no reason.
Do you understand now? I've understood all along, as have you. The difference is I choose to acknowledge that understanding.
What has been done by the AG to pursue the allegations since they fired Iglesias? | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 3:31:28 PM | Yes, I do understand the element of intent (showing a Mens Rea), combine with a concurrence of the intent (Mens Rea) along with the guilty act (Actus Rea) in order to show beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime has been committed.
HOWEVER...
(Oh God, help me.)
WITH AN ADMISSION, YOU DON'T NEED TO PROVE THE MENS REA (INTENT). The suspect/defendant has ALREADY ADMITTED THE ELEMENT OF INTENT!!!
For the sake of all that is holy, Mungo, grab a hold of yourself and embrace logic, truth, AND the American Way!!!
Its not too late!!!
To repeat, with an admission to a crime, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW INTENT!!!
GOT IT???
Furthermore, haven't you asked yourself if he is the AG for that district, WHY WOULD HE HAVE TO REFER THE MATTER TO ANOTHER OFFICE???
Well?? I bet you haven't asked yourself why.
Additionally, you wrote:
"And Iglesias has stated that he did not have sufficient evidence of intent (to influence the outcome of the elections, a requirement to obtain a conviction, but only of personal monetary gain), hence , further investigation of the matter to attempt to uncover the source of the commissions (those were the people who may have had intent to influence the elections)."
What???
Please post (or provide a citation) the applicable statute that states what you wrote.
You don't have to influence an election for a crime to have occured. The act of falsifying records (registering a dead person for instance) is enough to get a conviction.
I really don't understand. How can something so simple be so difficult for you to understand? Please explain. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 5:39:48 PM | I really don't understand. How can something so simple be so difficult for you to understand? Please explain.
Tort....please read your statement as it refers to you....
I asked earlier what about the other 7 that were fired and you keep refering only yo Iglesias...Is that because you have no grounds for your arguement about why the others were fired?
You probably believe Nixon when he claimed he was not a crook
And what have you to say about Gonzoles saying he knew nothing about the firings and then the paper trail showing he signed off on it?
Just wondering... | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 5:43:28 PM | GWB is backing him and he "done heck of a job"
So did Brownie
Imagine the mess if his name was White and had the nickname whitey.....  | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/25/2007 6:31:37 PM | Additionally, you wrote:
"And Iglesias has stated that he did not have sufficient evidence of intent (to influence the outcome of the elections, a requirement to obtain a conviction, but only of personal monetary gain), hence , further investigation of the matter to attempt to uncover the source of the commissions (those were the people who may have had intent to influence the elections)."
What??? You continue to harp about how he had multiple admissions of guilt (you have consistently used the plural).
From the Post
Iglesias said the fraud allegations are baseless. He formed a bipartisan task force to examine possible vote fraud in September 2004 -- two months before that fall's elections -- after hearing reports of "lots of low-level fraud going on. . . . I figured where there was smoke, there was fire. I wanted to sound a message: We need to have integrity in our election process."
A toll-free telephone number set up by the task force and operated by the FBI generated about 100 calls, three or four of which involved possible violations, Iglesias said. He said he considered prosecuting one case involving a woman signing up voters who put false information on registrations. But, Iglesias said, the case had "evidence problems" that made it difficult to prove the woman was trying to skew the election's outcome.
He said he conferred with the chief of the election-crimes branch of the Justice Department's public integrity section, who was "very lukewarm. So we kind of, in collaboration . . . decided to shut it down." Iglesias' exact words His further words on the matter:
Prosecutors can’t just prosecute on rumor and innuendo. I set up only one of two election fraud task forces in the country.
I wanted to prosecute those cases. I thought I had one case that I could have prosecuted. At the end of the day, I didn’t have the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, so I did not prosecute. One case that might have flown but the evidence was insufficient. Justice had no interest in pursuing the matter. The point of prosecuting that one 'iffy' case would be?
The reality of it is that senior Republican "Bushies" in NM wanted him to make a conspiracy case out of it that implicated the Democratic party, or that they could use to allege conspiracy, and he could not establish the intent necessary to achieve that (remember what I said about the point of investigating being to find out if it 'went deeper'?). The senior Republican "Bushies" wanted to make a political point and he wouldn't 'play ball' with them because he didn't have the evidence. He was quite simply punished, by those who felt he owed them a favour, because he refused to use a non-partisan position to play partisan politics
Prosecutions for isolated and relatively minor voter fraud that do not effectively influence the outcomes of elections are rare. This occurs because actually influencing requires a rather wide-spread conspiracy. There was no evidence of this and the pursuit of a minor incident does little to further justice (kind of like 'throwing the book' at someone for stealing a 25 cent candy).
I am sure you would love to have a soapbox to stand on to shout about Democratic election fraud and be a good "Bushie". If you consider the above to be incompetence, apparently you're willing to settle for a matchbox to try and make the point.
For the sake of all that is holy, Mungo, grab a hold of yourself and embrace logic, truth, AND the American Way!!! As an American citizen, I do and that is why I can see through the neo-con crap so well. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/27/2007 1:06:34 AM | As far as the others, (AGs), my answer is "who cares?"
I have told you and the other wonderful members of POF (Canadians and Americans) that these lawyers serve at the President's prerogative. He can fire them for a good reason; bad reason or no reason. ________________________tort2
Who cares? I worry, and we should all be concerned about an attempt to prevert the constiution. To win an election. Is a Tom Delay, C Rove , Or Brett Tolman, Someone we should reward? ------------------------ by bernardpliers Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 12 25 PM PDT
For the MSM and even the Democrats, the conventional wisdom on the US attorneys was that firing them was no big deal. Serious People understand that the attorneys serve "at the President's pleasure," and dismissing US attorneys is routine. The GOP says that all us hicks from the sticks just don't understand business-as-usual-politics in DC. But this is just a smokescreen, and for the moment even the Dems are playing along while the real scandal builds in the background.
The real question is the apparent conspiracy to engineer the Patriot Act to allow the White House to appoint US attorneys without confirmation by the Senate. And there seems to have been a plan, and a Bushie plant (aka Brett Tolman) in Specter's office (according to Specter), and the doctored legislation that was passed by a GOP controlled congress. Or was it William Moschella of DoJ?
Brett is now the US aattorney in Utah, and was probably on the fast track to becoming a federal judge who understands "a need for checks and balances regarding citizen rights.". The mysterious change to the Patriot Act would allow the GOP to pack the US attorneys with Bushie loyalists and then push them into federal judgeships. Investigations would be impossible when the GOP plants are both the prosecuters and the judges.
* bernardpliers's diary :: :: *
Arlen Specter reportedly said that Brett Tolman was the guy who actually inserted the changes into the Patriot Act renewal that allowed the White House to make US Attorney appointments without Senate approval. Clearly this was in the works for a long time, and nobody just did this on their own. Now Brett's carreer may hit a bump if he is the mole in a much larger conspiracy to subvert the Department of Justice.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/18/153925/885 -------------------------------------------
Senate Votes to Reverse Provision of Patriot Act CAPITOL HILL -- The Senate has overwhelmingly voted to end the Bush administration's ability to unilaterally fill US attorney vacancies.
The 94-to-2 vote reverses a provision in the Patriot Act.
It allowed the attorney general to appoint US attorneys without Senate confirmation.
Democrats say the Bush administration abused that authority when it fired the eight prosecutors and proposed replacing some with White House loyalists.
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy warned that "if you politicize the prosecutors, you politicize everybody in the whole chain of law enforcement."
The bill would set a 120-day deadline for the administration to appoint an interim prosecutor.
If the Senate fails to confirm the nominee during that period, a federal district judge would name a permanent replacement.
The House has not yet considered the bill.
© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Updated: March 22, 2007, 4:24 am
E-mail This Story | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/27/2007 5:19:25 PM | In msg #46, Tort said:
In message 413 of the thread "Impeachment is Imperative...", I corrected five (5) errors you made in earlier posts. The most egregious one concerned a complete misunderstanding of Case law. I'm a bit surprised you would bring that thread up. You want to talk about being corrected? I don't know how many times I had to correct your factual errors. There were too many for me to recall off the top of my head. You established quite a track record for grossly misrepresenting facts. People who live in glass houses....
__________________
Tort, in msg #52:
It does hearten me to see that you and Sombient have not lost your senses of patriotism and rationality. Ah yes, the tried-and-true "if you question Bush you are unpatriotic"-defense. How very unoriginal. And an ad hominem attack, to boot. Sure sign of a weak argument.
__________________
Tort, in msg #67:
As far as the others, (AGs), my answer is "who cares?" "Who cares?" is the best you can come up with? If that really were your sentiment, you wouldn't have tried so hard to justify Iglesias' firing. If you had anything on the other seven, I'm quite sure you would trot it out, just as you have trotted out unsupported claims in regards to Iglesias. You're dismissing what you can't defend, and focusing on the one small point where you think you might sound credible; another sure sign of a weak argument.
__________________
And in other news:
Justice official to plead the Fifth in attorney probe -http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/27/fired.attorneys/index.html
An excerpt:
"The potential for legal jeopardy for Ms. Goodling from even her most truthful and accurate testimony under these circumstances is very real. One need look no further than the recent circumstances and proceedings involving Lewis Libby," Dowd's letter said. Dowd is the lawyer for the DOJ official in question, Monica Goodling. So basically, she, through her lawyer, is characterizing her situation as being similar to Libby's. Which is to say that lies have been told, and she doesn't want to get sent to prison like Libby did. | |
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| Federal Prosecuters fired Posted: 3/27/2007 7:03:43 PM | First of all, unlike you and Mungojoe, I back up all my assertions with cases and statute.
Unlike Mungo, you at least seem to understand case law but you refuse to cite SPECIFIC cases and SPECIFIC passages.
I frankly became bored going over the same issue time and time again (the inherent powers of the Executive branch in times of aggression AND war [notice ONCE again how the principles come into play absent a declaration of war-Mungo just couldn't grasp this concept]).
But we aren't talking about that part of our mutual history, are we? No. We are discussing the prerogatives of the Executive to hire and fire key personal at his pleasure. As I have pointed out repeatedly ( you guys just don't seem to understand the simple things), there is NOTHING wrong with firing a Federal Prosecutor, nor is there anything untoward or illegal with forgetting the events that led up to the firing.
Nothing.
As far as the individual in question invoking the Fifth Amendment, let me add that numerous cases have established that NO INFERENCE OF AN ILLEGAL ACT may arise from an individual exercising his or her CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to invoke the Fifth Amendment.
I really hope you two (Bookworm and Mungo) understand that simple point. | |
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