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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/19/2007 3:19:58 PM | Obviously, a very hot button..emotional issue. and...as is the case with such issues... a lot of myth and speculation going on.
As I understand it... the only reason that inbreeding can cause genetic problems, is if there is allready an inherent genetic deficiency or abberation carried with in the siblings. Thus, the liklihood of transferring the condition would be increased. On the other hand, if the family was quite genitically strong... one would suppose that the offspring of siblings would be more likely to be strong also.
I am doubtful that should this stuff be decriminalized between adult, consenting partners.... there will not be a stampede to engage in it! Reguardless of any laws... it will always be highly discouraged and frowned upon..and that will be the greatest limiting factor in the end... not laws. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:31:24 PM | I'm not in favour of it either. The only possible excuse would be if he didn't know she was his sister when they first started having sex.
Things happen when kids are young sometimes. It amounts to nothing more than playing doctor and I don't think kids should carry an unnecessary amount of guilt around for the rest of their lives over it.
But between adults who are fully aware. Hell no. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:42:17 PM | | why are you surprised? the gay community here has been trying to change the law so it says you can not discriminate against ANYONE based on sexual orientation so the pedophiles have been using that in court and winning.You cave into special interest groups and this is the type of crap that happens.There's NAMBLA (North american man boy love association) and a pedhophile politcal party in the Netherlands trying to get thier 'lifetsyle" socially acceptable.I guess a beastiality group will be next society is too liberal and permissive no values,morals ect.Beam me back to the 50s Scotty,lol | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/19/2007 10:38:39 PM |
Given that both parties are closely related (family group consisting of parents, and their children) Adults, and supposing that the female, AND/OR the male partner in an incestuous relationship were to be rendered 100% infertile/sterile by way of surgery, then would you be in favour of them having a physical sexual relationship, and legally Marrying if they so chose to do that?
My answer is NAY...for two reasons...
1. Parents and their children should never be allowed to have incestuous relationships for the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts. There would be NO WAY to monitor whether the child was being brainwashed into a sexual relationship with their parental figure during their adolescence, and/or sexually abused and having it normalized. It would seriously be a detriment.
2. I would say "okay" for cousins IF, and only if, the called it a union and not a marriage. I know that's semantics, but let's keep marriage a religious institution. Also, cousins would have to agree to become sterilized. Immediate family would NEVER get an "okay" on this from me. But first, second, or third cousins could possibly be okay under those circumstances. Because you wouldn't have the reasons I listed in number one as a barrier. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/19/2007 11:51:59 PM | | so...this brother and sister did not grow up together ....and didn't know they were related (I guess) when the relationship started. They met later in life......How furious would you be if you found out that the person you fell in love with was your brother or sister, and mom (most likely mom ...just cause usually they are the single parent ) and dad never even told you that you had a brother or sister? If you happen to be a parent who doesn't think your child should know who their family is...then you could very well be setting them up for a situation like this. Sorry to get off subject...but, was wondering if we could take a look at how this could happen | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 12:30:35 AM | [but let's keep marriage a religious institution]
I'm not quite sure that marriage ever was a Religious Institution! Well if you consider that the "Marriage" of Nuns (nuns are so000 hot) to Christ is actually a defacto marriage, then I guess you could reasonably describe "that" as a Religious Institution, but otherwise, I would describe marriage as an outmoded secular social construct originally designed to transfer ownership of women, and ensure as much as possible their ongoing sexual fidelity. I think that over time, as women gain more and more power in society that this misogynistic barbarity will fade into the mists of time.
Marriage should be outlawed as an unacceptable form of slavery! One man will very publically transfer ownership of his daughter by walking the maiden down the Nave, and Giving her Away to another man, sometimes forfeiting the prepayment of a Dowry, consisting of moneys, a parcel of Land, a cow, chickens etc, or in western cultures perhaps the payment of all the wedding costs and other considerations. The new Owner/Husband makes known his ownership by having the transaction ruled upon by a holy-man or other civil officiate, then a ring which signifies this ownership is placed on the woman as a public show that she is no longer free, but is duly owned.
The owned woman is then given the Surname of her owner/husband, not entirely unlike was the practice when ownership of Blacks was transferred between property owners during the dark days of slavery in the U.S.A., whereby many of the same practices were customary. A transfer of ownership was effected, and stamped by an official, then the new slave was Ringed, and or branded as a sign of ownership, stripped of their African name, and given the Surname of their new owner.
Modern day western style Marriage is evolving a little with rings for both him, and her, but this is only a cosmetic response to modern criticism of a historically barbaric institution of female subservience to men, which no longer reflects the realities of the day, and perhaps should be entirely scrapped.
But I degress, so to get back to the topic at hand, I think that it is not up to me to tell a Mother and her Adult Daughter or Adult Son whether or not they should or shouldn't seek sexual satisfation from each other's bodies, nor whether an Adult son or daughter should be allowed or not to get it on with their Father or each other for that matter. All are responsible adults, NO children, NO victims, so live and let live!
What concern of mine is it whether my neighbor feels sexual attraction towards the Oak tree in his back yard or if he enjoys waxing his carrot while eyeing images of womens feet on a computer screen. Weird yes, but not hurting anyone so why complain.
As Pinebreeze says, even if it is decriminalized, you are not going to see everyone rushing out to marry their smelly old icky Brothers, and Moms. Geez people, Gay marriage is legal in Canada, but it is NOT mandatory, so there's no stampede of straight guys rushing out to marry their male poker buddies. You don't even see all the hotties at the local Curves Womens Gym, getting all naked, and sweaty sexy with each other in front of the big front window.....which come to think of it is a crying shame....really it is....now where did I put that wax. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 5:14:10 AM | If the eww fits, share it.. Personally, I think the eww will do as fitting on not fitting my fitting Into a close Momma or Sister, and I sure wouldn't do my Dad, E#ven if he would let me, and I'm not asking anyway just in case. I guess I'm into accidental celabacy now, seeing as how I forgot what sex feels like.. The problems with small towns and too many cousins, plus I've already married the only four women I'm not kin to... ah.. just joking!
People love to poke fun about the quirky habits of the Southern States, but its my opinion that the pot shouldn't call the kettle black, espeacially when reading all you bonifed elitists of civilizations saying that porking your of age Sister shouldn't be Illegal, if she consents, and you can "Actually" get it up!.. Gezz... If THAT is a sign of the new style Progressively forward , Educated, and Cultured Enlightenment, then color me happily backwards and proud to be living in Texas FAR away from the quacky Northern notions of the Yanks who pack more than sheep, or God forbid... Horny Meese and their sisters.
Anyway, this whole thread is based on a no-brainer assumption that Incest could EVER be correct or legal, much less actually practiced by knowing adults.
,
The brother and sister who continued after learning of relation Should be separated, since they can't seem to quit having children like Rabbits..
Some people are so weak, mentally. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 8:20:20 AM | AGAINST in any and every instance .
Second cousins maybe but no nearer.
If I was separated at birth from my sister/mother and this happened to me later in life by some quirk of fate.................I would be disgusted with myself and there would be no chance of carrying on with it .
So......NO | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 10:57:51 AM |
I'm not quite sure that marriage ever was a Religious Institution!
FYI...the actual term "marriage" is a religious term used to sanctify and legitimize in the eyes of God the union between a MAN and a WOMAN. I'm okay with relationships outside of a man and woman (a.k.a. homosexual relationships) getting "union" status with equal governmental and legal rights. But the term marriage should stay religious out of respect for religion. A homosexual "union" is not a "marriage" in the eyes of God (He doesn't change his stance on things like homosexuality just because social norms and cultures are shifting that way), but I do agree with homosexual "unions" being seen as a marriage in the eyes of the Government and law. Respect needs to be granted on all sides.
As far as incest...same thing. In the eyes of God, it would be wrong. But a "union" between cousins might be acceptable ASSUMING they were sterilized and banned from adopting. It would never be okay IMO between any immediate family members due to the reasons I state in earlier posts.
JMO | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 12:05:27 PM | So who made you God's spokesmodel? If you're referring specifically to passages from the Bible (which I do not accept as the "word of God, but YMMV,) which translation and edition? Which passages?
But, consider this. Incest has always existed - always. It has only been recently that it was made into a prosecutable crime - otherwise, people turned their backs on it, pretended they didn't know. Many children were born as a result. Remember the movie Chinatown? You think the idea came out of nowhere? Please. Back 30, 40, 50+ years ago, nobody talked about it - nobody would have admitted it had happened in their family. It was virtually always a matter of sexual abuse.
Well, we're living in different times now. Whereas man 50 years ago might have gotten away with sleeping with his daughters or sisters, he has to live with the reality that he could go to jail for it now. His wife is more likely to be able to survive without him, financially, and to be able to take care of her kids without his help - so she's a lot less likely to put up with it. Teachers and neighbors are a lot more likely to report an issue, and the court is a lot more likely to convict. Sexual offenders are registered and tracked, and efforts exist to rehabilitate them.
But - now we have a growing number of people who are saying, okay - this IS illegal... but we are consenting adults and we won't be having kids, so MYOB. With the growing numbers of babies being born by anonymous donor insemination or implantation, I can imagine this issue becoming much more widespread - a couple of young adults meet in college, fall in love, and marry - only to find out they had a biological parent in common.... it could happen. And the only way I can think of to stop it from happening is to require DNA testing for everyone planning to marry, because how many kids are going to know that they ar the product of donated sperm or egg?
I dunno what the answer is... I know it's just not possible for me to even think about my brother that way (I couldn't even take it when his girlfriend tried to talk about their sex life - ew.) /rambling flu induced post..... damn I hope this makes sense in the morning. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 1:06:24 PM | Legal drugs in the Netherlands pop next door and you can Bang your sister. The EU is such a wonderful concept NOT!
Totally mental idea, though apparently its been legal in most US states for years!
Have a nice day now!  | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 2:58:33 PM | In response to Msg: 109...... "and banned from adopting."
Ok, so not only should they not be allowed to reproduce due to possible genetic defects in their offspring, (a reasonable position) but now it seems that merely bringing an adopted child into the home of the couple may also cause genetic abnormalitties thereby necessitating the ban on adoption. I wonder if these defects can be caught by merely passing by one of these people on the street. (Ban them from going outdoors, and from making telephone calls too just in case)
But really now, I do understand much of the concern expressed by you here, except regarding the FYI point you made, which I believe you will find upon closer inspection to be not entirely correct.
Marriage predates Religion! A marriage can be declared by a wedding ceremony, which may be performed either by a religious officiator or through a similar government-sanctioned secular officiator.
As for the pontificating on whether or not God "doesn't change his stance on things", I would take issue with you. Surely as a devoutly religious follower of God you know that God CHOSE incest as his best practice, above all other options when originally populating the earth with humans, and then used the tried and proven method which he himself pioneered and saw was good, for Take Two, to repopulate the world again after the flood, yet now you say that God does not condone Incest, so isn't that a flip flop by God on this issue. Are you saying that God made a mistake? That he was wrong to repeatedly employ the method of incest, OR that he is now wrong to be against it?
You are a brave lass indeed to confront an inerrant God on his decisions. Repent now Woman for your public affront to your Lord and Master, and proceed quickly to do the Godly thing, and commence making googly eyes at your male relatives, so that you may "Know Them" in the Biblical way, as God had set out in the Holy Book. So it is written!
Now to be more serious for a minute. Why wouldn't you let them adopt a child? Did God tell you that they shouldn't be allowed to adopt a child? He could be wrong on that too you know, as you seem to think he is on his Incest Flip Flop! | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 4:45:18 PM | What god are you talking about? Can you prove that she exists? Has she given you the job of being her spokes person? Are you talking about the xtian god, Allah, Posidon, or the great Gumbhalah of the Vulcano, Setti, Nefrititi? Which one?
What makes your dellusions about an invisible sky fairy anymore valid, then any other dellusion? | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 5:18:58 PM |
Now to be more serious for a minute. Why wouldn't you let them adopt a child? Did God tell you that they shouldn't be allowed to adopt a child?
God didn't tell me that. I just don't think they should be granted the priviledge of children is all. It's a personal opinion. People, it's frickin INCEST. Serious...where do you draw the line? It can't be a free for all on the smorgasboard of sexual relations or our society will seriously go in a swift tailspin downwards.
JMO | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 5:56:56 PM | After the initial gut reaction, I think we have to consider whether this is really any of our business. It's weird, but apparently very common for reunited siblings and even parents and children reunited after adoption to enter sexual relationships. I remember seeing something about this a few years ago. It's all that emotion and feelings of closeness that translates in the adult world as romantic.
As I say, it's weird, but as long as it's between adults and consentual, I'm not sure it's any of my concern. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 7:59:55 PM | I'm surprised this is still being debated. All insane points seem to have been made, and generally countered by sane ones. This hasn't stopped repetitive insane comments and psuedo-points from pouring on however.
Ah, an overdue apology is in order for one jklumker.
I didn't mean to compare you directly to hitler. My point was to stress that his practice of eugenics exposed the slippery evils of it. To be fair, he's not the only one. There've been largely swept-under-the-rugs eugenics programs in America's past as well.
For making that implication and for not apologizing sooner, I do apologize, though I still think you're a bit disjointed.
I did not apologize sooner as at the time this thread, diseased lump of festering repetitive 'who-does-it-hurt' drivel that it is, was at last mercifully sinking into obscurity.
I have a feeling that this may not happen for some time now, as already we've passed a certain number of pages and people keep posting comments that everyone else has made before, and in many-if-not-all cases have had the flaws in their reasoning pointed out already.
Incest should not be legalized. There is no point in doing so, and there surely appears to be MUCH more harm than good in doing so.
It's a rather common-sense, and while having an open mind is a fairly good thing... Some seem to have had theirs so very open for so long that their brains appear to have dried out and shriveled into atrophied lump.
And that hereby ends my commentary. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 117 | |
| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/20/2007 8:33:09 PM | I agree with renfrew on the point that marriage predates religion(at least most of them), but I disagree about marriage 'fading into the mists of time'- at least I hope not before I get a chance at it btw; when I do.........nobody will be giving me away, cause NOBODY owns me. I actually think the giving away part was to make sure the bride didn't run the other way!!!
As for brother/sister marriage, I saw a couple on TV a few years ago that had a relationship; found out they had the same dad; and ended it right there. I guess it depends on how you are raised. I have many cousins(2nd, 3rd etc) on my dad's side of the family that I have never met; I have sometimes wondered what if............. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/21/2007 11:19:13 AM | To Msg: 116. Like you, I have heard many arguements expressed here from both sides of the issue, yet you and I have apparently come to very different conclusions on the matter. This concerns me, because it raises the possibility that there are errors in my rationale for accepting that Incest, which has Religious Roots, and Biological underpinnings, and under the circumstance that all participants would be Adults, and consenting to these acts, that I and others should not seek to prevent those people from finding that love, and fulfilling themselves in that regard.
From reading your Msg116 posting, it appears that you are possed of some illuminating knowledge on this subject, which has evaded me. I admit that I am limited in my understanding on many things, so I would appreciate it if you would take the time to explain to me and others here, exactly why you seem to think that your position is just common sense.
Now let me also explain here that I have never personally had any interest in bedding any of my relatives, and the mere thought of that is personally revolting to me. That being said, I still hold to the position that my own personal feelings regarding this issue only guide my own behaviour, and I do not apply my moral set to the actions of others, who must apply their own codes of conduct to their own behaviour. My only guiding principal in these types of things is that if ALL involved are legally responsible consenting Adults, who are not harming anyone by their actions, then who am I to tell them they can't find whatever happiness they can find in their lives, by doing as they want.
We wouldn't want others forcing us to live their lifestyles, so I am not prepared to force others to live mine. If gays were in the majority, would we like it if they outlawed Hetherosexual Marriages/Unions, and called for laws to restrict us? I am not the product of an interracial relationship, but I'm not against mixed race marriages, not Gay, but I don't care if my neighbor down the street is. I couldn't care less if Muslims, marry Jews, or if the ceremony is conducted by a Lesbian Bishop or a Gay Ted Haggard. I'm not a Lesbian but I wouldn't object to participating in one of those Lesbian Orgies, just to get a better idea of whether or not they are offending my morals......well perhaps I'd have to attend 2 or 3 Lesbian orgys, just to make sure, but until I do, i'm fine with leaving them to their own pleasure.
So anyway, greengrayblack please help me to understand where I have gone wrong, by explaining how I should think about this topic. I am open to learning from you and all here. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/21/2007 12:00:08 PM | To Greengrayblack.
Not a problem, I hope I didn't come off as TOO snotty, and if so, sorry. I rather enjoy intelligent and heated debates. The signal to noise ratio on forums is usually to bad to get involved and it's difficult to find a good sparring partner.
Anyways, I doubt incest will be legalized anytime soon, so there is little danger in it. I just feel people should spend more of their energy on fighting non-consenual, predatory behavior. There is a lot of evil and ugly in the world, so we have to prioritize. A man molesting a child raises my ire more than two cousins in Alabama finding a little joy with each other. Even as ewy as that sounds. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/21/2007 12:54:54 PM | | That is wrong . They need to stand firm on this . I believe that if they do , maybe someday the other countries will come around to their way of thinking. | |
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| Legalizing incest....THe royals have been doing that for centurys
Posted: 3/26/2007 12:39:53 AM | The royal families have been "keeping it in the family" for hundreds and hundreds of years. Not only birth defects, like missing arms... but insanity runs hard when inbreeding exists. Money, land and holdings were not to be shared so cousins married cousins, I do not recall any sisters and brothers actually marrying in any of the royal history books. The fact that they grew up separate may explain part of it, they met and "fell in love"? Are they half brother/sister? Does it say? They did some of that in the south to keep land and weath in the family and many children were born with severe health, physical and emotional defects it only too a couple of hundred years for them to figure it out... plus the poor children will be teased so much at school, heck they will tease you for being too "normal" and insanity or a disability inflicted on an innocent life because of the lack of restraint of supposed adults is and should be a crime.
People are crazy enough as it is...
BL | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/26/2007 3:03:40 PM | If God comes to decide tomorrow or next week that most of the world has not lived up to his expectations, (as was previously the case when he Chose to see how long the unfaithful could hold their breath underwater) and he chooses now to end the world by fire or some such as he sees fit, and decides as he did with Noah, that perhaps it will be “You“, and “Your” immediate family alone that will be saved from his terrible wrath, while all around you will perish, then will you do as you now say is an abomination and rut like horny Dogs, or oversexed Rabbits with your close kin?
Will you mother, take your sons to your bed so as you may “Know Them” in the biblical sense, or will you be like the poster-sassy miss and “Send them down the road“? Will you Parents, guide your children into copulating with their siblings? Will you daughter preserve the seed of you father, and brother, as Lots daughter‘s did? Will you father lay With your daughters, and you brother/son, Lay With your mother and sister, and do so willingly, and joyfully, or would you like me, refuse to be forced by God into committing Incest?
Come on people let's unite! If everyone were to follow my example, and stand up against God’s incestuous will, when an if he wants to start humanity over next time, then I’m sure that God will see the error of his ways and repent. I believe that God has at times painted people into a corner so as to force them into incest, but, In the face of a united human front against Incest, God instead would be forced to repopulate the world by some other less offensive means, and not through his most favorite method of incest, which holds no personal appeal whatsoever for me. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 123 | |
| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 3/26/2007 6:41:56 PM | | if the christian god was so powerful- he'd just make more people. Besides; even if he did show up; nobody would believe it was him anyway! | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 5/11/2007 6:48:47 AM | I do not think incest is wrong if your family are hot (joke) but all mine are pigs so I say ban it.... but if I ever get a decent sister I may hold my right to change my mind.
Anyway I woul like to welcome my sister & girlfriend..elfheart:.. she is one of the same lol
Man from Atlantis Toes
   i need  :   | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 5/11/2007 7:19:18 AM | | In the beginning we have Adam and Eve, who beget (begat?) 2 sons Cain and Abel, pushing the absurd a bit we're all the product of an incestuous relationship, if you want to use the Bible version of course. You guys are all my brothers and sisters. lol | |
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