| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/5/2007 2:39:49 PM | it's free as long as we agree................. and of course someone is making money on it. 
they should not prison these people...they should fix them...just like they do animals because that is what it is to me...an animal act......we are to be more civilized and intelligent...REGARDLESS of where you live.
now excuse me while i go throw up. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/5/2007 4:44:53 PM | I think msg 125 by mimosa brings up a good point. If we all started off from adam and eve(or some other man and woman if you are non-religious), we are all brothers and sisters and no matter who we have sex with, its all incest.  | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/5/2007 11:08:36 PM | ^^^^^^That is a statement from someone who does not read or believe in God's Word the Bible. In the beginning Adam and Eve were to have children and replenish the earth with their off-spring. Eve's eggs brought forth several different colors of human beings. After the world became somewhat populated incest was forbidden, and God scattered the different colors and mixed the languages. God did not intend for the races to inter-marry. Using the beginning now days is just another excuse for ungodly people to commit evil. This country was built on the foundation of the Ten Commandments. Our currency bills state in God we trust, yet few are trusting God. To legalize incest would be another insult to God and decent God loving people. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah. People have free choice and may do as they please, but in the end there is a penalty to pay.
For a man to force his children to have sex with him is about as low as an animal, and there is plenty of it going on. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/5/2007 11:32:47 PM | [quoteGod did not intend for the races to inter-marry
This pretty much confirms my thoughts on your stance on imigration. Thanks.
I challenge you to find the word race in the bible. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 12:48:30 AM | | As society gets more liberal and permissive of everything this really surprise you? if legalizing incest bugs you your really gonna freak when they legalize pedophilia and why not? can't discriminate against ANYONE based on sexual "orientation" right? | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 1:40:21 AM | | um, pedophilia an sexual orientation is not the same thing. Nice slippery slope tho. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 2:06:43 AM | Yes, incest is wrong period!
However, situation should still be looked at individually: For example, when that particular couple met, they didn't know each other.
Whose fault is this?
Ignorance in many cases is the source of the problem and should be dealt with.
All children should know who their biological parents are; it should be as important as knowing one's blood type , or the medicine we are allergic to!
Obviously there's no arguing about those people who consciously choose to have incestuous relationship, or impose it on weaker ones, or course it should be punishable. It's just sick. It'd be like condoning and be understanding towards pedophilia!!!
The law has a moral duty towards society and has to protect our children's future!
As for those people talking about having consentuous incestuous relationship between adults and not fathering children, Don't make me laugh! They're just trying to find excuses for what's unacceptable and pretend to be light about it! | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 2:15:59 AM |
um, pedophilia an sexual orientation is not the same thing. Nice slippery slope tho.
With the kind of person that equates pedophilia with homosexuality. The slippery slope *IS* a logical rule (rather than a logical falacy) | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 2:23:39 AM | "[quoteGod did not intend for the races to inter-marry
This pretty much confirms my thoughts on your stance on imigration. Thanks.
I challenge you to find the word race in the bible."
I am very annoyed at reading such rubbish!
Like you, I have nothing better to do this morning, but at least, I chose to post a reply to the right thread.
Did you think your answer was funny, or highly philosophical? Or did you just have a point to make and didn't even read the topic which you supposedly replied to? | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 5:08:25 AM | That is a statement from someone who does not read or believe in God's Word the Bible. In the beginning Adam and Eve were to have children and replenish the earth with their off-spring. Eve's eggs brought forth several different colors of human beings. After the world became somewhat populated incest was forbidden, and God scattered the different colors and mixed the languages. God did not intend for the races to inter-marry. Using the beginning now days is just another excuse for ungodly people to commit evil. This country was built on the foundation of the Ten Commandments. Our currency bills state in God we trust, yet few are trusting God. To legalize incest would be another insult to God and decent God loving people. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah. People have free choice and may do as they please, but in the end there is a penalty to pay.
Um... did you even read the bible?
For starters if you had gotten through even the first book, you'd know that even if Eve had pushed out every race and colour under the sun that they'd all be dead due to the flood.
Also where in the bible does race or colour come up?
If you still belive that the USA was founded as a Christian nation, you really should type "Was the USA founded as a Christian nation" into google. Choose any of the million links, a little knowledge is good for making sure you don't repeat ignorance on the internet.
What about Sodom and Gomorrah? God got pissed for some uspecified reason (largley attributed to homosexuality... but your millelage will greatly vary if you look at different editions) and went a smiting... are you worried that god will get pissed and go a smiting on your city?
If you haven't noticed, God got passed his angry smiting stage a few thousand years ago. He even sent jesus to us to proclaim how loved we are, and we didn't even get smited for killing him!
Also supposadly jesus corrected us on how insane we were about the old testement rules, and created a new covenant... so we wouldn't have to stick to all the insane rules... but then again, who actually has the right to pick and chose which should be followed or not? Have you eaten all kosher meat recently?
Heck if were sticking to OT rules, you probally wouldn't need to be on this website, becuase women would be a lot rarer commodity, with polygamy being legal, women would be snaped up a lot quicker then tehy are now. Also they probally wouldn't have much say in the matter. Heck dear old wise King Solomon supposadly had 700 wives, that would suck for the rest of us guys.
Course supposadly that rule is no longer valid, neither is the food one, but hey its okay for modern christians to pick and choose which ones no longer apply and which ones people should be stoned for, isn't it? | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 6:21:37 AM | I had to get over the personal revulsion jitters.....(ewww, sex with my sibling, father, just kill me now...)
But it got me thinking about the nature of love. I love my brother and father with all my heart. Why? I think due to the nature of our shared understanding of the world, and shared experiences. Trust.
Then I started thinking about the men I have loved. Why? Shared experiences, trust. What was different? Invariably, it was attraction. I liked the turn of his jaw, his blue eyes, his voice, mannerisms, etc.
If these two had no inkling about their shared heritage, would anyone object? That they found out later gives me pause to question why they carried on though. Perhaps they did not "see" each other as siblings, but unbelievably unlucky people who had the misfortune of falling in love?
Children are another issue IMO. I've seen the physical and societal agony these children have faced. It is heart wrenching.
I'm kind of disturbed that the discussion has turned into a marijuana type issue...that this particular case will evolve into legalising pedophilia if not checked now; a doorway to other abnormal behaviours. I think this is alarmist behaviour. Sex with minors is never ok. The trust issue is paramount.
I think the couple of discussion are the most tortured of people. They were strangers when they met and they fell in love. They decided to ignore the information of their heritage and tried to live "normal" lives anyway. Backfired badly. A case where love didn't conquer all. Sad, on many levels.
Raven | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 11:36:58 AM | Anything where a future childs life facing pain and suffering is not O.K. in my book. While it may be between two conscenting adults - what if these two conscenting adults decide to "keep the kid".
Keep it illegal. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 9:47:08 PM | | I don't see why anyone is shocked about this.There are pedophile political groups in Europe and organizations like NAMBLA here in north america I think its just a matter of time before anything goes.Prior to 1968 it was illegal to be homosexual in Canada today you can't even watch a sitcom without thier "lifestyle" being promoted on all of them.I'm sure the pedophiles ect will just change the law like the gays did then force us to accept it like gay marriage.Mounties wearing turbans,gay marriage,feminism,destruction of the family unit,women trying to be the man in a relationship,churches accepting gay marriage now ect don't think it can't happen I doubt anyone else would have thought all of that would have happened years ago.It's "progress" hope you like it if not too bad your getting it wether you want it or not.Anyone have Doc Browns phone number? Any Delorians for sale in the auto trader? 1955 sounds swell to me. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/6/2007 11:01:52 PM |
God did not intend for the races to inter-marry.
I understand in the old testement marriage of Jews to outsiders was forbidden, but that hardly implies a command against racial intermarriage. Indeed Galations 3:18 would suggest that under Christianity the notion of "jew and greek" was eliminated. What was still advised against was marriage to "unbelievers" which obviously was the intent of the old testement proscription, NOT opposition to interracial marriage. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/8/2007 1:24:58 AM | nightcowboy: Nowhere did I say it bugged me and I don't freak out about anything for nothing this modern generation does surprises me.
can't discriminate against ANYONE based on sexual "orientation" right?
I don't discriminate against anyone, that is between them and God. I don't believe in the homosexual life style but I know some that are otherwise really nice. No, I do not judge them. I personally like them. They make good friends and I would treat them the same as anyone else. We all have to choose what we want to do with our lives.
This pretty much confirms my thoughts on your stance on imigration. Thanks.
What has this got to do with incest?
My thoughts on immigration is that there are too many illegals in our country. We are over populated and I would like to see them sent to their homeland's. We have enough to do to take care of our own. Not to say we should not help them, but do it in the foreign country. With all due respect, I don't think you confirmed anything excepting what you decided I meant.
I challenge you to find the word race in the bible.
It does not mention race. It mentions the different nations of which some are black and through interracial marriages the nations were of different color. One of Noah's son's was black. Also a black man helped Jesus carry the cross. ...Mark 15: 21 A man from
Cyrene, a city in North Africa.
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Incest forbidden: Leviticus 18:3...You shall not do as they do....You shall not conform to their customs. Hebrew law forbid an individual to have intercourse with either parent or sister, a niece or nephew, an aunt or uncle, daughter or daughter-in-law, sister-in-law or a grand child. Gen. 20:12, 2 Sam. 13: 7-13, Deuteronomy27, Ezek. 22:11
Intermarriage: Ezra 10:11 Joshua 23:12-13
Nehemiah 10: 30.....We promise not to give our daughters to the peoples around us or take daughters for our sons.
Gen. 28: 1....Do not marry a Canaanite woman
Gen. 21:21 Choice of wife for Ishmael
Gen. 24 1-4 A wife for Issac
Acts 16:1 Intermarriage between Jews and Greeks
Intermarriage was a danger to their morals...Proverbs 2:16, 5:13-23 etc.
Intermarriage tends to weaken the community of faith. It represents the mixing of the true believers thinking with ideas
that are pagan or that may represent some distortion of what is conceived to be the truth. Such a union, in religious
parlance, would not be blessed by God. Some Clergy discourage interracial marriages with the same passion that they refuse
to perform interfaith marriages.
Black is beautiful....Song of Songs 1:5
All nations are important to God....Amos 9:7
Oneness of faith in Christ ... Gal. 3:28
Racial and religious bigotry are still rampant among conservative religious groups.
Our emphasis should be on human well being rather than on winning converts.
Please forgive this off post. VVVV I have to answer this person.
Um... did you even read the bible?
Yes, I do and I compare all 16 of them. I doubt you read it as your name calling shows you don't practice it.
For starters if you had gotten through even the first book, you'd know that even if Eve had pushed out every race and colour under the sun that they'd all be dead due to the flood.
If you had read farther you could find out these things for your self, that is if God has chosen you and given you the knowledge to understand HIS word . Not all are called by God to understand the Bible. If you have read it then you know that it is in the Bible. All but Noah His ,three sons, his daughter in laws and the rest of his family. There was about 150 years from the time God commissioned him to build the ark. By that time Noah would have had a big family.
Also where in the bible does race or colour come up?
It does not mention color. It mentions the different nations of which some are black and through interracial marriages the nations were of different color. One of Noah's son's was black. I think it would do you good to have to actually do some reading to find out which one. Also a black man helped Jesus carry the cross. ...Mark 15: 21 A man from
Cyrene, a city in North Africa.
If you still belive that the USA was founded as a Christian nation, you really should type "Was the USA founded as a Christian nation" into google. Choose any of the million links, a little knowledge is good for making sure you don't repeat ignorance on the internet.
The only one ignorant here is you. You can't spell, your grammar needs help, how dare you call me ignorant! I know more about the Bible than you ever will. Google only has what humans beings put on it. I will consider God's Word the Bible as truth. This country WAS founded on the Ten commandments.
What about Sodom and Gomorrah? God got pissed for some uspecified reason (largley attributed to homosexuality... but your millelage will greatly vary if you look at different editions) and went a smiting... are you worried that god will get pissed and go a smiting on your city?
No I am not worried about God being angry and destroying my city. I am not worried about anything. My life is in God's hand's. You should be more worried about your self, your language, using God's name in vain, etc. You are not one of God's. Your actions show that.
If you haven't noticed, God got passed his angry smiting stage a few thousand years ago. He even sent jesus to us to proclaim how loved we are, and we didn't even get smited for killing him!
Those that are loved by God keep his commandments, and His Holy days . The rest who practice evil will not be loved by God until they change their evil ways.
Also supposadly jesus corrected us on how insane we were about the old testement rules, and created a new covenant... so we wouldn't have to stick to all the insane rules... but then again, who actually has the right to pick and chose which should be followed or not? Have you eaten all kosher meat recently?
The new covenant did not take away the ten commandments.
Jesus said He did not come to change the law. He added a new commandment John 13:34 . John 15:10 If you keep my COMMANDMENTS.......LUKE 18:20 YOU KNOW THE COMMANDMENTS........There are plenty more references, try finding them instead of calling others ignorant. No I have not eaten any kosher meat, just pickles. But if I was invited to dinner and was served koshered meat I would eat it. I feel no one is any better than anyone else. Just their actions are worse.
Heck if were sticking to OT rules, you probally wouldn't need to be on this website, becuase women would be a lot rarer commodity, with polygamy being legal, women would be snaped up a lot quicker then tehy are now. Also they probally wouldn't have much say in the matter. Heck dear old wise King Solomon supposadly had 700 wives, that would suck for the rest of us guys.
I do not need to be on here. I am here mostly for the forums and have made friends. Only losers like you NEED to be on here.
Course supposadly that rule is no longer valid, neither is the food one, but hey its okay for modern christians to pick and choose which ones no longer apply and which ones people should be stoned for, isn't it?
You have the choice to choose whether or not you believe in the Bible and in what it tells you is the right thing to do. I doubt very much if you will make the right choice for you think it is okay to do as you please. I haven't heard of anyone being stoned lately, maybe your kind will can make an exception for you. You have an attitude and are using it. Don't start with me, you will not win. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/8/2007 1:42:04 AM | Apparently common sense went out the window with the rise of "progressive thinking".
Look , just because you CAN do something doesn't make it a good idea. Why is there even a debate about the morality of this ? Nobody here ever heard of the Habsburg lip or anything ? You think Prince Charles has those ears because the royal families of Europe found it attractive ?
Why do people even have to have a debate about the morality of this ? The "open-minded" would have us questioning our most basic understanding of right and wrong yet just a pinch of common sense would save us all a lot of time and trouble.
Good grief people, if you have to debate why this is wrong then we're all doomed and I only wish I was kidding about that. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/8/2007 2:02:46 AM |
Don't start with me, you will not win. Hard to win when you don't address a single point i make, insult me, attack me, and accuse me of calling names (which I did not do, saying something is ignorant isn't a personal insult, it means incorrect / lacking knowledge on the subject. I am ignorant of many things, and so is everyone else in existance. You included).
Please read and try to address a single point i made rather then just divert and attack.
Oh and spelling and grammer attacks, come on, gotta love that diversion, you made a spelling mistake so your point isn't valid... LOL. So sorry for not running through a spell check. LOL
oh and what does god's word in the bible being truth, when it comes to the USA being founded as a Christian nation. No where in the bible does it say "USA is a christian nation" but documents and many founding fathers have something different to say about religion. As I said look it up.
Read the original post, address the points and try again. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/8/2007 5:57:51 PM | ^^^^^^ nice try but won't work. Get over it and GROW UP. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/8/2007 6:24:13 PM | Divert and Attack... again. Not a single point addressed, a divert ("Nice try but won't work") and an attack ("Get over it and GROW UP")... didn't expect much more though.
Oh and I'm grown up, thats why I have the critical thinking to read things, try to understand them, and come to my own conclusions even if that conclusion is different than what the majority tells me is right. I am also able to defend such conclusions if I am called to, and I don't get offended and start attacking people when they question them.
It is also why I get incredibly offended when I hear people spout crap about interacial marriage being wrong. It is becuase I'm grown up enough to be flabergasted when facing an opinion of such a tiny minority, that is so inherintly racist that I had assumed that it died out generations ago.
Not that any of this has anything to do with the original subject. | |
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| Victimless crimes
Posted: 7/8/2007 6:40:25 PM | Why should our government have the right to govern what I do with my own life when it affects no one else? The idea of consentual incest falls into the same category as age of consent laws and suicide.
For example. The Royal Gorge Bridge is the highest suspension bridge in the world - a good 1000+ feet above the Arkansas river. It's against county law to jump off of it to commit suicide - so what are they gonna do? Arrest my carcass when they drag it out of the river? ( I can see it now - a coffin locked up in a jail cell: "What'd he do?" "He committed suicide off the bridge. He's doing 20 years here before we bury him." )
True story: A young man of 17 was dating a girl of the same age, she was younger by only a few months. On his 18th birthday they wanted to celebrate so they hopped on his motorcycle and went for a ride. They accidentally crossed the state line into Kansas and the young man was arrested for kidnapping because he crossed state lines with a minor. If they'd taken the ride the day before he'd have gotten off with a speeding ticket and a "Have a nice day".
In my opinion, incest is completely wrong. Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem. Young people shouldn't engage in sex at all (much less with a much older partner). But my government should NOT have the right to interfere in "crimes" where there is no victim. What two consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business. If we have a problem with it - our ONLY recourse should be better education about the consequences.
Don't write laws - write books. Educate people. Teach them the real world consequences of their actions. Education is the answer, not legislation.
My two bits.
My first forum post - HI EVERYBODY!!! | |
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| Victimless crimes
Posted: 7/8/2007 7:15:08 PM | | Just a point of interest to throw in here ... Adolph Hitler's parents were first cousins. | |
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| Victimless crimes
Posted: 7/9/2007 12:16:02 AM | Hold up a second here with this "if it makes you happy then do it" crapola. Chris Rock once said that just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it's to be DONE. For example (as he said) he could "probably drive a car with my feet but that doesn't make it a good ****ing idea."
People who style themselves philosophers always want to ask questions about morality yet they never bother to answer them. The medical reasoning is clear about this so if nothing else that satisfies why it's illegal in the first place. Thousands of years ago people probably noticed that without a little hybrid vigour the kids kept right on drooling no matter how old they got. Over time we probably just stopped testing the matter and not inbreeding and just considered it a moral issue instead. Whether it's moral or not is actually beside the point because it's definitely still a bad idea to allow close family members to breed with each other. This SHOULD be common sense but as I said , self-styled "philosophers" always feel the need to introduce koans (look it up) as a way of defending nonsense. | |
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| Victimless crimes
Posted: 7/9/2007 1:27:22 PM |
Just a point of interest to throw in here ... Adolph Hitler's parents were first cousins.
So are you saying that all children of incestuous relationships are doomed to be evil? Here's something to think about: Albert Einstein's second wife was his first cousin (maternally) and his second cousin (paternally).
People who style themselves philosophers always want to ask questions about morality yet they never bother to answer them. The medical reasoning is clear about this so if nothing else that satisfies why it's illegal in the first place. Thousands of years ago people probably noticed that without a little hybrid vigour the kids kept right on drooling no matter how old they got. Over time we probably just stopped testing the matter and not inbreeding and just considered it a moral issue instead. Whether it's moral or not is actually beside the point because it's definitely still a bad idea to allow close family members to breed with each other. This SHOULD be common sense but as I said , self-styled "philosophers" always feel the need to introduce koans (look it up) as a way of defending nonsense.
The fact that you know what a koan is suggests that either you were raised in a Zen monastary or you're as much a self-styled philosopher as the next man.
I don't believe this is a question of whether it (incest) is right or wrong - most of us will probably agree that it's very wrong. But I believe it's a question of who has the right to make that decision for everyone? In my opinion governments should only be able to make laws that protect me from my neighbor. Protecting me from myself should remain the arena of myself/family and religionists and psychologists. If incest is morally wrong, then let the religions toot that horn. If it results in a significantly higher birth defect rate then educate our children about those consequences. But don't let the government have the power to control our personal lives. If you do you end up with a "Brave New World" right out your front door. | |
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| Victimless crimes
Posted: 7/9/2007 2:28:39 PM | Well if the government doesn't put laws into effect then just who do you propose should ? Garbage men , talk show hosts , and hair-stylists ?
Eventually the buck has to stop being passed and somebody has to provide some concrete rules for the conduct of society in general. Anarchy might sound like a good idea but in practise I doubt many people would be very fond of it.
PS : That I used the word "koan" doesn't suggest I'm a self-styled philosopher , it suggests I know what a koan is. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/9/2007 2:47:57 PM |
^^^^^^ nice try but won't work. Get over it and GROW UP
Most ironic sentence ever. | |
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