| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/9/2007 3:09:08 PM |
How long before this sort of stuff reaches Canada???!!! I can't believe it! Incest is WRONG.
Really? why is it wrong?
assume consenting adults. Assume due care is taken about issues in procreation.
Labelling things just wrong without any real consideration is not reasonable imo.
There may be genetic issues but two strangers can have more serious ones. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/9/2007 3:19:42 PM | Oh, I just can't help myself....
Playing devil's advocate here...
According to the Bible, Adam was the first man and from him, God took a rib and created Eve. They had two sons. So here we are, and the world's population is at an all time high. According to the story in the Bible, this couldn't have happened unless those darned kids had some fun with mom.
So is incest wrong? It's cool in the Bible.....
Flame on, but Cheers! Raven | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/9/2007 3:23:24 PM |
well, lets start from the begining,.. in biblical days, very early right after adam and eve, there kids married each other, they had kids, and so on,.. their genes were excellent, as time went on, our genes got worse, just think how bad they r know, u marrie your cousin or sister, and have kids, they wont be normal. its common sense, law or no law.
Cain went off to nod and there is no mention of who the rest of the boys married... biblically eve had no girls... though in the second creation story adam begets sons and daughters. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/9/2007 3:43:25 PM | Well I'm not a geneticist but I'm pretty sure the fact that somebody has "excellent" genes won't make much difference if his sister ends up being his wife. If he carries the gene for Alzheimers and marries his sister (who also has "excellent" genes) their child will now have an "excellent" chance of getting "excellent" Alzheimers.
Most genuine religious scholars will attest to the fact that Genesis isn't all meant to be taken literally. | |
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| Victimless crimes
Posted: 7/9/2007 4:48:27 PM |
Well if the government doesn't put laws into effect then just who do you propose should ? Garbage men , talk show hosts , and hair-stylists ?
YES! EXACTLY! I think that's the best idea I've ever heard! We should call this idea something... oh oh I know! How about "Democracy"? Sound good to you?
Eventually the buck has to stop being passed and somebody has to provide some concrete rules for the conduct of society in general. Anarchy might sound like a good idea but in practise I doubt many people would be very fond of it.
I am not passing the buck (I need all the money I can get). Nor am I promoting anarchy. Laws that govern the conduct of SOCIETY are exactly what governments are for. But when the conduct of the individual has no effect on society, the government should keep their nose out of said person's business. I suppose we could do things your way - let's make masturbation illegal because you and I believe it's morally wrong. Wow, suddenly every juvenile male between the ages of 13 and 21 is a hardened criminal. We could criminalize smoking because it's detrimental to your health (not to mention second-hand smoke) - I bet you'd like that idea ;) The question I have is - and I want a real concrete answer to this question if you're going to reply at all - what gives you and I the right to call someone a criminal simply because we don't agree with what they do?
PS : That I used the word "koan" doesn't suggest I'm a self-styled philosopher , it suggests I know what a koan is.
"Koan" is hardly a common term in the English language. It's like "simulacrum". Anybody who can use those words in every day conversation has spent way too much time philosophising. It's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm as guilty as the next self-styled philosopher. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/9/2007 9:54:47 PM | Most ironic sentence ever.
Do I get a prize? You have made a few your self that people could have called you on. You assume that you know my thoughts on immigration and I believe I answered you in the post #140. I have stated that I believe incest is wrong and why. It is your right to believe it is all right if you so desire. My opinion is my own and I do not try to influence anyone else. I was not being sarcastic. I answered every thing in Mike M's post in my post #140. He knows he is wrong in what he said but hell will freeze over before he admits it. He is not debating, he is making fun of what I said. If he did not want an answer from the Bible then he should not of directed his smart mouthed words at me. His first sentence is really ironic. Have a nice day!
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/9/2007 10:34:47 PM | | Um you didn't answer a single thing I asked, you diverted everything and didn't respond to a single thing directly. I am debating, you diverting. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/10/2007 11:15:21 PM | I believe the entire law system and everything we choose to create laws for should be based on one simple fact. There shall not be victim-less crimes. Two consenting individuals who choose to enter into sexual relations regardless of age or relations, should not be charged with a crime. Would there be problems with the children if the two individuals ended up procreating? Most likely. Is there a victim when two related individuals procreate? Most likely the child and any defects he or she may have to suffer with. You can look at many other issues where the law creates criminals out of nothing. Drug laws and the laws that create criminals should be eliminated. Prohibition didn't work for alcohol and there is no way it will work for drugs. To continue to make drugs and their users criminals is to not learn from our past mistakes. Drug Prohibition has only made these drugs easier to get and dangerous to use.
I definately think if something were to change with the laws that we should get rid of the punishments for the sexual act, while looking at the specific consequences for the procreation of children.
Here's a quote a found interesting. It's okay for a brother and sister to produce offspring as long as it's artificially inseminated, but it's not okay if one was incapable of having children at all, and the two individuals decided to have some sexual fun? What if it's two gay brothers? 
That's because Germany's incest law only punishes heterosexual intercourse between close relatives such as siblings or parents and their children. That means that infertile siblings would face prosecution while a sister who gets inseminated artificially with the sperm of her brother would not have to stand trial. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/10/2007 11:56:22 PM |
Um... did you even read the bible?
Your whole post was given answers to it in post # 140. Since you don't seem to understand simple language I will answer again, but you should try reading the post with the bible verses . I will not waste my time answering your post after this.
For starters if you had gotten through even the first book, you'd know that even if Eve had pushed out every race and colour under the sun that they'd all be dead due to the flood.
No they all did not die, Noah and all his family lived.
Also where in the bible does race or colour come up?
It doesn't. It speaks about the different nations. One of Noah sons was a black man.
Though interracial marriage, the races came about.
If you still belive that the USA was founded as a Christian nation, you really should type "Was the USA founded as a Christian nation" into google. Choose any of the million links,
Human beings can put anything into computers and Google. I prefer to believe God's word and prophecy, which is coming true day by day.
a little knowledge is good for making sure you don't repeat ignorance on the internet.
Then why don't you practice getting the knowledge by reading and knowing something before you post. I have not put anything on the internet that is ignorant. You are the one posting ignorant posts. You can insinuate others are ignorant, but that doesn't make it true.
What about Sodom and Gomorrah? God got pissed for some uspecified reason (largley attributed to homosexuality... but your millelage will greatly vary if you look at different editions) and went a smiting... are you worried that god will get pissed and go a smiting on your city?
No, I am not worried about God destroying the city.
If you haven't noticed, God got passed his angry smiting stage a few thousand years ago. He even sent jesus to us to proclaim how loved we are, and we didn't even get smited for killing him! God loves those that love him and keep his commandments. Also supposadly jesus corrected us on how insane we were about the old testement rules, and created a new covenant... so we wouldn't have to stick to all the insane rules... but then again, who actually has the right to pick and chose which should be followed or not? If you bothered to read the bible you would know that Jesus did not come to change the law. He did not take away the ten commandments, but added to them. Have you eaten all kosher meat recently? HAVE YOU? Heck if were sticking to OT rules, you probally wouldn't need to be on this website, becuase women would be a lot rarer commodity, with polygamy being legal, women would be snaped up a lot quicker then tehy are now. Also they probally wouldn't have much say in the matter. I don't need to be on here. I am on here mostly for the forums, and I have make friends. Heck dear old wise King Solomon supposadly had 700 wives, that would suck for the rest of us guys. Solomon was the wisest man except Christ who ever lived. Bet you are kin to W? This is 2007 and our laws state you can have only one wife/husband. Course supposadly that rule is no longer valid, neither is the food one, but hey its okay for modern christians to pick and choose which ones no longer apply and which ones people should be stoned for, isn't it? Think what you like, do what you like, but that does not make it right. It is not what you eat that condems you it is what comes out of you mouth, in your case, computer. I think you should be stoned for posting ignorant posts.  No one has evaded any point. You either can't read or don't understand simple english.  | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/11/2007 4:05:56 AM | | Why is it that you the peoples are alway saying that the south is the only part pf the USA that there is incest going on there is just as much if not more from the northern USA that they do not bring out if you look hard you can see that there are more deformities,metal defects,and adnormalicies in the northern USA than in the southern part of the USA. So befor you go and call the pot black look in your own back yard first you might .will,are can find your black pot | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/11/2007 6:21:10 AM |
It doesn't. It speaks about the different nations. One of Noah sons was a black man.
Where in the Bible does it say that? And if Noah's son was black, what does that make Noah?
Though interracial marriage, the races came about.
It doesn't take a geneticist to figure out that interacial marriage blurs racial distinctions - it doesn't enhance them. A white man marries a black woman, their kids come out somewhere in the middle. In basic principal there's like a 1 in 4 chance of a child inheriting a parent's trait exactly (2 alleles in one gene with incomplete dominance. see Mendelian inheritance). However, since humans have anywhere from 4 to 6 genes governing skin color, the possible ranges of the children's skin expands several fold - anywhere from 8 to 12 alleles, I'll let you do the math.
If you haven't noticed, God got passed his angry smiting stage a few thousand years ago. He even sent jesus to us to proclaim how loved we are, and we didn't even get smited for killing him!
HAHAHA!!! TOO FUNNY! SO TRUE TOO! I hope you don't mind if I steal that :) I've got to share. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/11/2007 6:48:23 AM | Wow you actually responded on some stuff this time rather then attack and diverting, though there are still pleanty of attacks on there, pretty impressive neverless considering your record so far.
It doesn't. It speaks about the different nations. One of Noah sons was a black man.
Though interracial marriage, the races came about.
Where exactly does it say noah had a black son?
Human beings can put anything into computers and Google. I prefer to believe God's word and prophecy, which is coming true day by day. So your saying that the bible says something about US history? That's what were talking about here, US history, and the principles it was founded on. That is not going to be mentioned anywhere in the bible, unless you have some very very obscure prophecy verse.
God loves those that love him and keep his commandments. So you've kept every commandment in the bible? I'm not talking about just the big 10, I'm talking all hundreds of them?
If you bothered to read the bible you would know that Jesus did not come to change the law. He did not take away the ten commandments, but added to them. Once again, not talking about the 10 commandments, I'm talking about ALL OF THEM.
Have you eaten all kosher meat recently? HAVE YOU?
Nope but i'm not claiming to follow everything the bible says... let's pull out leviticus... 11:4-8
" 4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The coney, [a] though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.
That is a commandment. So if you've ever eaten pig or rabit, you are breaking a commandment. That's why I brought kosher up. So have you broken a commandment or not? Or does this one not matter? If this rule doesn't matter, then why does the interracial marriage one matter (though you'll have to give me a verse in the first place to back that one up)? Where do you draw your lines?
Solomon was the wisest man except Christ who ever lived. Bet you are kin to W?
This is 2007 and our laws state you can have only one wife/husband. So its okay for our laws to say something isn't okay when the bible implies it is okay? That's odd... you'd think in a "Christian Nation" as you claim the US is, that you'd follow what was okay by the bible. Heck if i remeber correctly when the Mormon's started to follow in Solomon's footsteps there, the US government had a fit.
I also don't have a clue of what you mean by "Bet you are kin to W"
Think what you like, do what you like, but that does not make it right.
It is not what you eat that condems you it is what comes out of you mouth, in your case, computer. Yet there are commandments about what you can eat and what you can not eat... so wouldn't breaking them be condeming? Or are we back to picking and chosing.
I think you should be stoned for posting ignorant posts. No one has evaded any point. You either can't read or don't understand simple english. And were back to the insults.
Well thanks for actually addressing the points this time. Was a nice change of pace.
You can't claim to follow it 100% if you ignore things like the eating rules, and think that polygamy is wrong.
Heck do you think slavery is a good thing, god gave rules about owning slaves to the isralies, and didn't say "No don't do that"... so he basically endorsed it. Even though god didn't say no, I'm still against slavery.
So you draw your line in some place. I and many (most) other people draw there lines in other places. How does that make you better than us?
And just for clarification incase i piss someone else off, I don't think polygamy is right. I'm just using it as an example of why I don't take the bible as 100% literal.
Still waiting on a reason why your against interacial marriage, since this is what this is all about. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/20/2007 5:13:24 PM | Freedom comes with responsibilty. I have the freedom to swear, which I do alot, but I never do it in front of strangers,elder or children. Why? Cause when other people are impacted I have to be responsible with my freedom. The highways belong to me because I pay taxes. But I do not speed, drive high or recklessly. Why? Well, first because that would be stupid but I try to live a logical and responsible life.
Incest is wrong on so many levels. Having children in this situation victimizes the children. There is no way you can justify this. I am appalled at how so many different PC Agendas are becoming acceptable based on illogical arguments and blantant misconstuing the facts. The right way is all about being responsible and logical for the greater good for all of society. These groups and others are international and they want control of your family, what you eat, what and where you smoke, what you drive, what you see on TV, what you read,what you learn,where you go...on and on.(example: statistics that smoking is bad for you. On my mothers death certificate it says she died from smoking. That she smoked for 55 years at 5 packs a day. Totally false. I did the math and she started when she was 41 and stopped when she was 62. I use to tease her cause she never inhaled. And 9 times out of 10 she would let the half the cigarette burn out. She smoked about 1 pack every 3 days. Now here is the kicker- she was doing steroid inhalers for the last 10 years of her life. When she died I found all over the house these inhalers. I filled a 13 gallon trash can twice. How come that was not mentioned in her death certificate?She was under alot of stress the last 5 years of her life. How come you never hear about studies on any of these factors.Other facts in her enviroment never recorded or explored.I have looked but can not find any studies on other factors that may have contributed to her death.I am not changing the subject just questioning statistical answers to any PC arguments.) They want you to live life according to their standards not yours. Just copy do not think or question. Avoid people who repeat satistics as facts. They do not try to find out the basis of your position. They are mean and condscending. Labeling you with hateful tags that reallly refect their close mindedness rather than your true nature. Follow the dollars. Most of these agendas are based on profit. No matter who pays the price.
I think if would you buy the PC argument of creating a perfect Utopia were everyone can have the freedom to do what they want, when they want and how they want...well, buyer beware! I am not buying any of it! Don't be a sheep or a parrot.
What are the meaning of the words socialism, communism and nazism? javascript:smilie(' ') | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/20/2007 6:53:49 PM | Attention everyone:
Please don't comment on what's right or wrong if you're a moron. Thank you | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/20/2007 7:26:07 PM | | Even to talk about it and give it time is sick unto it self. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/20/2007 7:28:56 PM | So is incest wrong? It's cool in the Bible.....
Let's just crap on the bible, instead of thinking how
sick this is? I find it funny that you want to play devils advocate with the bible, ass. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/20/2007 9:49:36 PM | "I do not need to be on here. I am here mostly for the forums and have made friends. Only losers like you NEED to be on here."
To sassymiss: It's not very "Christian" of you to call anyone a loser. Aren't you judging him based on YOUR assumptions? Practice what you preach
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/21/2007 6:20:19 AM | "I do not need to be on here,
but you are on here posting a comment.
It's not very "Christian" of you to call anyone a loser
Aren't you judging him based on YOUR assumptions? Sufferwell 69.
Sufferwell69, 69 is not a very chirstian number.
Practice what YOU preach.
This is America, the greatest country on the planet and forums like this are here so we can say whatever we want because like it or not, we all have freedom of speech BUT we do have to pick the words we use in a careful way. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/21/2007 7:12:17 AM | Your opening a pandoras box........Why stop with siblings............ make it legal to do your dog or cat too. Sheeeesh
Oh wait....... they already made it legal to do that in the south with sheep 
Peace | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/21/2007 7:26:09 AM | Here are a few questions to pose on this topic?
How could the enviornment at home be affected by such permissions?
And what protections are afforded to minors at home?
How is socialization affected by this inclusive enviornment?
Anthropologically speaking, the human race has recognized the dangers with incestual relations, in terms of reproduction. Science reinforces provides the evidence for this debate. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/21/2007 7:37:41 AM | That is what I was thinking and don't forget after the flood when all was washed clean
there was only family on the ark and only 2 of the animals so the Bible said incest was ok not only once but twice, and I am from the south and no I do not sex with my female family members but they have tried to screw me over once or twice  | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/21/2007 8:48:02 AM | WE CONTINUE TO BLURR THE LINES BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG ON EVERY ETHICAL AND MORAL ISSUE WITH DUSCUSSION AND DEBATE.
THE PRACTICE OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IN MANY SITUATIONS IS SIMPLE STUPIDITY IN ACTION.
ANY ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF INCEST IS A STEP CLOSER TO THE DESTRUCTION OF SOCIETY ON A WHOLE..THE MORE WE CHIP AWAY AT MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDARDS THE MORE SOCIETY FALLS APART.
WE NEED RULES STANDARS AND BELIEFS. IT IS CHAOUS WITHOUT THEM. THEY HAVE BEEN IN PLACE ALL THESE YEARS AS THE GLUE THAT HOLDS US TOGETHER.
DOES THE BIBLE SAY WE WERE BROUGHT FORTH THROUGH INCEST?
GOD CREATED A WIFE FOR ADAM, DID HE POSSIBLY CREATE WIVES FOR THEIR SONS ALSO?
THERE IS NOT A DAY BY DAY MINUTE BY MINUTE ACCOUNTING OF THIER LIVES.
THE ONLY MENTION ON INCEST IN THE BIBLE WAS TO CONDEMN IT..
INCEST HAS BEEN VIEWED WITH REVULSION FOR AT LEAST 6 THOUSAND YEARS..SO WHY NOW DO WE WANT TO BECOME POLITICALLY CORRECT AND ATTEMPT TO ACCEPT IT?
ANYONE CAN RATIONALIZE ANYTHING..PEOPLE INTERESTED IN CHILDREN HAVE EXCUSES.. THEY TRY TO CONVINCE OTHERS OF THEIR POINT OF VIEW. DO WE RATIONALIZE AND DEABATE THAT TOO SOME DAY?
AT THIS RATE WE WILL. | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/21/2007 10:41:01 AM | "Sufferwell69, 69 is not a very chirstian number.
Practice what YOU preach."
Thats kinda funny. That number (69) is based on the year I was born. Where was your mind? I'm sorry that you assumed I was a Christian based on my comment that what she posted wasn't very Christian of her. I'm not a Christian and abhor the idea of being called one. I do follow some of the teachings of Christ but also realize that "Christianity", as a whole, has been distorted into some monstrous shield that a lot of people hide behind to commit selfless acts of evil. Some of the most perversely hypocritical people I know are , so called, "Christians" . The news is strewn with people that call them selves "Christians" committing horrible acts of hate and violence. All in God's name. So no...do NOT color me Christian. This does not mean that I dislike ALL "Christians" I know some that are very good and decent people too. I believe the Dalai Lama said it best. "My religion is simple. My religion is kindness".
Based on that philosophy...I say that what two consenting humans do in the privacy of their own home is their business. Including 69. Not the business of others. I think contraception should be first and foremost in the minds of those two individuals, based on the possibility of birth defects. What happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged?"
Take care all.
I'm sure I just opened a whole HUGE can of worms and all the "Christians" will be flame on!! Have fun  | |
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| Legalizing incest....
Posted: 7/23/2007 6:22:09 AM | celh -AS A NON-CHRISTIAN I SAY " THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU". The PC crowd doesn't get it.seems like nothing is sacred for them.Anything someone can think up should be respect and legal because...? I cannot answer this because I do not think that way. My guess is that the indvidual rights superscedes everyone elses rights. I think it is funny that because I give my point of view I end up defending myself against false accusations, brutal words, altering the meaning ,or structure of my sentences(thus altering the meaning), Personalized comments concerning my appearance, condesending rheotric, etc. It is like they read from a script and anyone that they find does not parrot the same PC language is the enemy. If you are a conservative,meat eater, christian, from the south, in recovery,pro family or like Bush then to them you are a buffoon.They always want statistical or scientific proof of your point. Or the original subject never gets adressed. They all seem surprisingly angry and hostile.
With incest they have already rationalized this and for them the debate is over.( Sadly it is not a debate if everyone agrees. It is a debate if conflicting points of view are included.Lots of issues in our society are handled this way)
It is refreshing that 5 years ago people like us wouldn't discuss these PC issues . I do not know what issue was the "Straw that broke the camels back". Now people all over the planet are saying enough is enough. The marketplace is flooded with books that 5 years ago would not exist. Really good books. We have news channel devoted to honest reporting. We have activists springing up everywhere questioning the validity of being PC. Homeschooling is increasing by 15% every year. It has finally become mainstream. More of us our coming out of the closet and admitting we are conservatives and traditionalists. It is all refreshing and it makes me smile. It is a good day for Americans. | |
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