| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 4/21/2007 4:56:32 PM | This is like the 5th thread I find absolutely fascinating which I come into so late!
Has anyone heard of the Drake equation? It predicts the number of possible civilizations we could make contact with in our galaxy.
# of willing civilizations = (# stars in galaxy) * (fraction of stars with planets) * (fraction of rocky planets) * (fraction of planets which develop life) * (fraction of life which becomes intelligent) * (fraction of intelligences communicating) * (average lifetime of civilization) / (age of the galaxy)
Now that we're finding more and more (and smaller and smaller) planets, we're beginning to be able to narrow some of these numbers down. There could very well be a large number of communicating civilizations out there. The only problem is the interstellar distance scale and the amount of energy required to be noticeable.
I find the idea of harnessing the zero point energy of the vaccuum interesting and appealing. I know in a book called Encounter with Tiber by John Barnes and Buzz Aldrin, the more advanced Tiberian starship used a zero point energy laser as propulsion (the first used solar sails) to get up to relativistic speed (~0.98c).
As for going faster than light, globally at least, I don't see how that could be done in any way. It is possible to bend space in such a way that you can travel in a sort of bubble at globally superluminal speed while at rest in your own frame. The only problem is that that requires an incredible amount of energy and we have no clue of how to actually warp spacetime with a machine. That, the method of controlling the bubble after you make it is unclear, and blue-shifted light would zap anything inside the bubble. If you want to read more on that, go to wikipedia and look up the Alcubierre warp metric. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 5/26/2007 9:04:54 AM |
Msg 5: Of course, I could be wrong,and an advanced race of space Muslims might be on their way, and then we are all screwed.
I think you'll find that Christianity was spread by the sword, why pick on the Muslims?
Fact is, a superior alien race could be try and impose an infinite diversity of religions upon us, in the same way humans spread religion through conquering other nations and continents. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 5/26/2007 6:11:57 PM | Geneseo--clearly you haven't read the same sci-fi books I have!!! LOL Most of them tell us the aliens want food, space, or food!!!! And don't forget all the sci-fi movies/tv programs! LOL We're doomed I tell ya! Doomed!!!!!!!
I just hope you're aim is better'n mine!! 
so my answer is, we should all hide under rocks!!! | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 5/26/2007 8:28:15 PM | This is such a delightful topic for our minds flights of fantasy. Start with beings that wouldn’t even need a vehicle to get here, go then to the completely diverse chemical make ups as mentioned in earlier posts. We would have no idea how to relate or comprehend these. But, keep it simple and just stick with oxygen based human formed race.
Sadly, the advances that put the human race into space were based on weapons technology. I would think if the same advances were what drove another species into space, they would have the same warped and aggressive tendencies that we do. Hopefully they will have advanced beyond these tendencies, but can you see humans running into another race and not trying to exploit or control them.
As far as an answer to the OP about keeping a low profile, I think we should get on with life, worry about what we can do something about, try and clean up our own aggressions and maybe try to become more civil to each other, Then worry about the miniscule chance of an ET encounter | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 5/28/2007 8:19:07 AM | Would Extra Terrestrials be friendly, or would they eat us?
My way of looking at this question is this. Why would they wish to harm us, or even eat us?
When all the wars of man kind are boiled down to the nitty gritty, they are a result of need for land, food, or fought over because of ideals such as religion.
One might expect that an advance race of beings who can travel faster then the speed of light, or bend space so that they can leap from one universe to the next, would have already been able to settle the things which we fight over.
This encapsulates what I think is the wrong way of looking at it. The reasoning is all about man's wars with man, not man's treatment of creatures which he is incomparebly more advanced than. When we find a field and decide we want to build condo's, we go ahead and dig. We don't spend a lot of time thinking about the trees there at all.
So I see three scenarios. If we are very, very lucky, they send some biology graduate student to give us the anal probings of our lives, and leave us alone. If we are unlucky, they wander by and decide the sun would make a good stellar beacon, or they want to terraform the planet to their liking or something.
The third scenario is more chilling. In a universe in which any sufficiently advanced civilization can eliminate others through self-replicating machines, the only prudent course may be paranoia - kill off any potential threat early, like you would a strange fungus growing in your garden.
This theme has been explored in science fiction - Greag Bears Hammer of God and Gregory Benford's Galactic Center series come to mind. It is worth noting the timelines and implications. The timeline says that if it takes 100 years for radio signals to reach another civilization, then we can expect killer probes traveling at sub-light speed in another 150 years or so. That's why nobody has answered back yet.
The implication is this: young civilizations that announce themselves are extinguished within 300 years. The only ones that survive do not give themselves away. So at any given time you would not expect to hear anything out there. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 6/8/2007 12:28:32 AM | BE ABLE TO KEEP A LOW PROFILE, ie we are all given one small slit in our strange ovals oft named faces but from which we amazingly emit such strange, rare, rude, and mostly illiterate 'sounds', I would be totaly amazed if we should ever understand the rare and more highly ev' comnications from any other planet or universe, should it exist, which of course it does...
Point in case, if we, mere, and I do find us very 'mere' if lovely humans, if we were to ever understand, no, truly understand, or even TRY to understand, each other, be it Father, Mother, Sister, Brother Neighbour Friend Pet, or otherwise, then why on earth do we pretend, but fail miserly (if not why are you HERE people!!!!!) to have evolved far enough into that translucent sphere to understand, appreciate and connect with, an intelligence way above our own!!?!!!
Probably best to keep it simple, stupids! Me included
Smiling broadly!
x | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 6/8/2007 2:43:50 AM |
Why should we assume we have unlimited growth potential? And the fact that nobody knows everything doesn't prove that the laws of the universe change. Perhaps their intricacy surpasses what our intelligence can grasp.
Why would you want to assume we have limited growth potential? We have never reached it yet...
The fact that nobody knows everything means that we haven't figured out the natural laws... The natural law once said the world was flat... When it was noted that we were mistaken, it changed...
If we don't make the natural laws, who does? | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 6/8/2007 3:27:29 AM |
If we don't make the natural laws, who does?
Well, nature does, presumably. We just try to figure it out and write it down. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 6/8/2007 4:17:06 AM | ^^^Good point, 
I really should stop stopping by here on my way to the can in the night... | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 6/8/2007 4:04:27 PM |
The punch line went something like "They were 8 feet tall, they were black and they were pissed off."
That's from an old Arthur Clarke short story. Earth gets a message from space saying they're advanced enough now to join the galaxay and oh by the way if any of you are still white we can cure you.
Regarding the point that any advanced race might not be a bunch of pirates... I dunno. You coulr argue the Mayans might have said the same thing. They might want some resource on our planet that seems stupid to us - sand, water, copper, I dunno, but might be rare in their world. Or we might just taste good to them.
I suspect if there's other races out there it might be star trek like. There some good and some bad.
But I agree the chances are very very small we're have contact.
There is a gorup that meets in northern california once a year for a "Contact" symposium where they ponded these thoughts and have done so for about 15 years.
My only hope is aliens cherish mosquitos and take nearly all of them. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 6/8/2007 5:31:13 PM | It is strange. Maybe we are raised as pets by ETs.
Sorry, I seldom think about problems from ET, as well as most people in China.
Because we have known many times from Movies that ETs only attack and catch Americans. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 6/8/2007 7:57:52 PM |
Sorry, I seldom think about problems from ET, as well as most people in China.
Because we have known many times from Movies that ETs only attack and catch Americans.
 So true | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/12/2007 9:41:57 PM | this was probably allready said, but when were found, i sure hope it's the vulcans, & not the romunlens! | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/13/2007 8:06:07 AM | I think alot of people are assuming that wars and violence are some primative way of life and that if you're really advanced, you'll never have any conflict.
Life is nothing more than a struggle to exist. This would be universal. Should there be any alien species out there, they too would be familiar with conflict.
Consider when the Europeans sailed to the Western Hemisphere. You had the warriors who sought to find riches and to establish themselves as near-kings. You had the scientists who wished to explore the new worlds and record the new species of animals and plantlife. And you had the missionaries.
The warriors were interested in conquest, nothing more while the scientists and missionaries had other goals and often found themselves siding with the native tribes against the warriors.
Then if you think about North America...different European nations fighting over control of North America and the Natives would side with one side or the other.
I should think that if there is other intelligent life out there, it will be a mixed bag. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/13/2007 10:24:47 AM |
Sorry, I seldom think about problems from ET, as well as most people in China.
Because we have known many times from Movies that ETs only attack and catch Americans
Yeah, it seems like asteroids and comets really have it in for us Americans, too. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/13/2007 10:07:10 PM |
Life is nothing more than a struggle to exist. This would be universal. Should there be any alien species out there, they too would be familiar with conflict.
I would refine this to life is a struggle to survive. I would expect that conflict would arise out of pre-emption rather than a struggle for resources. It is asking a lot of a species to trust their survival to the rationality of aliens. Trust in their rationality over hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of years. I think many species would simply focus inward, stay hidden, and eliminate anybody that looks like they might someday evolve into a threat. Frankly, I doubt an ancient and advanced civilization (in the realm of 500,000 years advanced) would see much value in trade and cultural exchanges. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/17/2007 7:36:42 AM | | It depends on how you look at it. If they developed interstellar technology fairly early on, then their violent and abusive tendencies would not have been wiped out, and would see us as food. If they only developed the technology later on, they would have had to get on with each first, and developed more diplomatic ways of dealing with daily life. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/17/2007 1:29:27 PM |
It depends on how you look at it. If they developed interstellar technology fairly early on, then their violent and abusive tendencies would not have been wiped out, and would see us as food. If they only developed the technology later on, they would have had to get on with each first, and developed more diplomatic ways of dealing with daily life.
But if at some point they had run into an aggressive, superior and paranoid species themselves, they would no longer be around to be diplomatic with. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/26/2007 9:08:34 AM | I am reading these posts and can't get past the feeling that we as a species are incredibly vain to think that we would be able to even recognize when something from outside our realm of experience were to "take over". Also, depends on your definition of life itself. Just thoughts. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/26/2007 7:46:46 PM |
I am reading these posts and can't get past the feeling that we as a species are incredibly vain to think that we would be able to even recognize when something from outside our realm of experience were to "take over".
Hmmm, perhaps c*ckroaches are really aliens who have infiltrated every nook and cranny on this planet. Yes, they have already outproduced us! Wait, they were here long before homo sapiens so I guess we must be the invaders.
Maybe we should be thinking nano-scale such as space viruses that have taken over and are seemingly invincible... the common cold perhaps? | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:19:07 AM | | Not a bad thought to keep low. More stuff to do here in the flat fifty than in deep space anyway. | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 7/30/2007 12:46:12 PM | After translating a message from Earth into Betelgeusian, the Prime Ordinateur of Betelgeuse proclaimed:
ZIVSHALABA CKOP BARALEESHAMAAT!
[Looking up in Betelgeusian-to-English dictionary] It says here....
FRESH MEAT, PEOPLE!!! LET'S ROLL!!!!! | |
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Davood
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Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 111 | |
| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 8/1/2007 10:50:39 AM | Have any of you seen the NASA UFO documentary by David Sereda?
He talks about how radio signals are a inefficient way of creating a beacon, and that maybe it could work but it is only one of many many options.
Other things include light frequencies in repeating patterns, and gathering data ON various frequencies of light and energy.
In his documentary he shows some publicly available NASA footage depicting swirling pulsing balls of energy in the space outside of our atmosphere converging and acting un-naturally in reaction to some signifigant and non signifigant events; The tether incident, something that happened in africa, etc
At one point he talks about millions of balls of ice that are coming from deep space and hitting our atmosphere which in turn causes the O2 to become O3 (Ozone) as it enters the atmosphere thus mitigating/healing our ozone layer. He then goes on to say that there have been a total of 0 incidents of these 20 ton balls of ice ever hitting a sattellite or space shuttle, which in his correspondence with NASA scientists is not denied as evidence of "intelligence".
Beyond that the NASA scientists are not allowed to comment, and their spokesperson is for lack of better words, a complete lying idiot.
If you can acquire it.. I reccommend it.. its about 4 hours long in 2 segments. part 1 and.. part 2 ! | |
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Davood
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Joined: 7/6/2007
Msg: 112 | |
| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 8/1/2007 10:52:31 AM | | He goes on to explain how there is some evidence that we have been watched by some advanced race for alot longer than our recorded history (10,000 years+ ago) which is quite disconcerting because it means that we are either some sort of experiment or David Sereda is full of previously eaten food ! | |
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| Should we keep a low profile?
Posted: 8/1/2007 2:04:50 PM | At one point he talks about millions of balls of ice that are coming from deep space and hitting our atmosphere which in turn causes the O2 to become O3 (Ozone) as it enters the atmosphere thus mitigating/healing our ozone layer. He then goes on to say that there have been a total of 0 incidents of these 20 ton balls of ice ever hitting a sattellite or space shuttle, which in his correspondence with NASA scientists is not denied as evidence of "intelligence".
Given the sizes involved, I would take it as a sign of intelligence if one *had* hit something in orbit.
The surface area of the earth is 510 million square kilometers. The surface area of everything up in orbit is probably less than a square kilometer, and the surface area of those million 20 ton blocks is probably less than a square kilometer. | |
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