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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 76 | |
| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/14/2007 12:26:01 PM | ripeagles,
You sound very controlling and that is an interesting view. well many couples reside together and are not Married. I cannot see how you can control your ex into enforcing how and what she chooses to do with her life. Its her life....you demanding her to not have a live in bf says more about you dont you think? just an observation. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/14/2007 3:03:35 PM | It's interesting how I read all these "children come first" posts and now all of a sudden it's just "her life", not "her children's lives", that would be affected by such a decision.
pucks, i'm controlling when it comes to my children. If she wants to have a live-in b/f, that's fine, just don't expect MY CHILDREN to be living in the same house. I am their father, I have EQUAL say in their upbringing and the environment in which that upbringing will occur. I am their father 24/7/365, not just when they are sleeping at my house.
Alas, as much as I can't stand my ex-wife, I know based upon her morals and values that she will not have a live-in while she is raising OUR children so it's not really a scenario about which I have to worry. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/14/2007 8:07:00 PM | I can understand how you don't a significant other live in with the same house as your kids, but really if your exwife wants to, she can, there is no jurisdiction that says she can't do that.
So if she were to marry instead of having a live in bf, what if things break apart because they can't handle their living habits? living together and seeing each other are two different things. You really don't get to know the person really well til you move in. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/14/2007 9:55:51 PM | ripeagles, I understand that you would not be happy about your children living with some guy the mother had been dating 2 weeks. But do you still have the problem if its as part of a long term relationship? If they've been together for over a year, its clearly not some fling, the kids are around him, he's good with them, they like him? Yes, often couples do move in for convenience. Whats wrong with that? If you have been together a long time, you spend most of your time together anyway, whats wrong with them moving in to save on costs? That's more money that can go towards the children. Seems win/win. Besides which, almost any couples therapist will tell you that its a BAD idea to marry someone without living with them first, at least for a test period. Some people when they move in together, find out that the way they live aren't compatible. Isn't that something that would be good to know ahead of time, before you go putting the legal stamp on things?
I'd have to wonder though, what does a piece of paper change anything? You'd rather the kids live with a guy she married after 2 months than with a guy she'd dated for 5 years? People wait on marriage for a variety of reasons. Some don't believe in the practice, some don't see any benefit to it so don't see the point. My aunt and uncle lived together for 15 years before they got married, not because they didn't love each other but because both realized that it didn't effect the way they felt about each other, so why bother?
Legally, she can have a live in boyfriend and you can't say a thing about it regardless. Its perfectly legal. You could not take the children away because she chose to do so. And frankly, no, divorced parents do not have equal say in the environment their children will grow up in. Both parents choose the environment that the children will grow up in while the child is with them. They can live in any area, in any housing situation, with who they want, they can choose what the kids eat, where they go, what they do. Good parents at least try to consult each other on such things and try to work on it together but it is far from mandatory. As long as the child is not being abused and is not in an unsafe environment, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. You'd have to somehow prove that the guy was a danger to the children. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 80 | |
| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/14/2007 10:24:33 PM | Hey Ripeagles,
I just do not understand your view. I just do not see how anyone has the right to tell/control whatever you call it, their ex wife that they cannot have a bf live with them.
It just seems abursd to me. If my ex told me that i'll tell her to fly a kite. I dont think i'll ever get married again. I know you have equal say in your children's lives and your very involved ( hey i do/am too) but there is no law that shaws the ex is doing something wrong by having a live in bf.
So this brings me to my question; Assuming of couse the bf/gf is a responsible caring adult...how is a child affected if your ex had this person live with them? | |
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DebFxy
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Joined: 6/21/2007
Msg: 81 | |
| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/14/2007 11:02:56 PM | I am a widow, I married at 17 and my husband passed away 2 years ago.
I say my children are first also. That doesn't mean that I don't have room for someone else. I gave birth to them, so it is my responsibility to take care of them.
Too many people are thinking too hard. Psych doctors and counselors will tell you that this is the order in which you should put your life.
1. Your Significant other
2. God (or your religious preference)
3. your children
I had time for both my kids and my husband. There should not be much of an issue, if the man you are with doesn't like your kids, he probably won't stay with you long anyway because your kids are a product of you.
I disagree with the psychs. My order is
1. my kids (it is my responsibility to see them to the adult age, protected and loved)\
2. my significant other
For me, God falls in with all things (he is involved in the making of all things). | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/14/2007 11:19:57 PM |
Besides which, almost any couples therapist will tell you that its a BAD idea to marry someone without living with them first, at least for a test period
Then Bing, during that "test period" the kids would be staying with me while my ex' discovers if things could work on a permanent basis. I guess it's just me. But, as a child I lived through the scenario and I did not like it at all. (and b4 anyone jumps to conclusions, my dad had custody and my future and still current step-mother lived with us for a while).
This is basically how I see it. Boyfriend/Girlfriend has no standing at all to discipline/raise/judge/have input towards/parent my children. Marriage and status as a Step-parent and spouse garner special privileges and respect.
As I said, I married and divorced someone who has the same values and opinions on this subject so I'll never have to worry about it and neither will she. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 4:45:27 AM | rip you are trying to control your ex through the kids. That sort of behavior is not a good enviroment for your childeren, your ex or even yourself.
Boyfriend/Girlfriend has no standing at all to discipline/raise/judge/have input towards/parent my children. Marriage and status as a Step-parent and spouse garner special privileges and respect.
Rip any male can be a father. It takes someo0ne special to be a dad. Marriage is not a requirement. You are not there 24/7/365. Don't whine and moan because someone else is willing to be.
You are being selfish.
Quit trying to control other peoples lives. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 6:39:03 AM | rjpeagles,
I'm wondering...will you feel the same way (that being, someone other than you or their mom has no rights to discipline, etc.) when she marries someone else? What will you do if together, they enforce a discipline or idea that you disagree with? What are their rights, what are your rights, and what will you do? | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 7:31:45 AM | Sounds to me we just discovered why rjpeagles is divorced
God or Government doesn't exercise that level of control over people, what makes you feel you have the right.
My wifes real "offences" were WAY more serious than your "senario" and it still took years and a boat load of money to get custody of my son. By then the point would be moot.
And if your ex-wife did fall head over heels and decided to move in with said person you ranting as you have here would make you look foolish in court and sadden your children.
As for having the right to disipline a child, when I start dating a woman (not living with)
BEFORE I meet the children, I tell the lady I will treat your children exactly as I would my own including disapline. OR I don't meet the children. It is too hard on children for the bf/gf to be the buddy buddy for 6mo.'s, a year or two ect..... and then switch over night to a parental figure overnight because of marriage or living together.
It is the womans right (if she is the custodial parent) to give me that right not the non custodial father. And if she doesn'r want me to fulfill that role the relationship will end or remain completely separate from her family
And to that end .......How would a piece of paper make the BF/GF a better parent ?
Are their values going to change? I think not. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 7:44:51 AM | dread,
Sorry, but I don't live in your world of "part-time" and "when it's convenient" parenting.
I'll say it again, no boyfriend or girlfriend will parent my children.
And dread, next time try reading and comprehending the entire post before responding. Doubt it matters though, b/c anyone who disagrees with you is devious & spiteful, right?
will you feel the same way (that being, someone other than you or their mom has no rights to discipline, etc.) when she marries someone else?
Funny, you obviously did not read all my recent posts on this subject. I addressed that directly. In order to earn the privilege to parent my children you would have marry me or my ex'.
wullis, we have JOINT CUSTODY. There are no NCP's in my situation. JOINT CUSTODY meaning the 2 people who brought these children into this world are equally responsible for raising these 2 children, not every Tom, Dick, Sue, Sally, or Harry that happens to pass through their lives.
And wullis, since you want to take potshots, you, not me, was the idiot who married and had children with a woman who ran off with the children. That's something I never have to worry about. So, someone of your obvious poor judgement and who views your children as a weapon/tool of a divorce settlement really isn't in a position to comment about my marriage.
You all may disagree with my stance on this subject but notice one thing: you have never and will never read any outrageous, horrible, or saddening stories of custody battles, non-supporting parents, absentee parents, or abusive parents in mine or nor my children's biography. So maybe, just maybe, the way I look at things (and one of the few areas in live my ex-wife agrees with me) has proven to be a little more stable for my children then the lives some of you have led your children through.
I don't think children look at it as a badge of honor to say they've had 8-10 different "parents" raise them. I'm guessing most children would prefer to say they have 1 mommy and 1 daddy who raise them to adult-hood. A good and loving step-mother and/or step-father is great. But b/f's and g/f's parenting children who have 2 healthy and viable parents? Not acceptable in my book, nor is it acceptable in my ex-wife's book. wullis & dread, you 2 would know nothing about 2 parents agreeing to the major facets of their children's lives despite whatever other differences they have. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 8:30:59 AM |
Funny, you obviously did not read all my recent posts on this subject. I addressed that directly. In order to earn the privilege to parent my children you would have marry me or my ex'.
I obviously did read your comments, because I acknowledged your agreeing to allowing another person to discipline your children through marriage, as you stated you would. That wasn't a question, it wasn't the question.
Thanks for nothing.:)
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 8:53:49 AM |
Sorry, but I don't live in your world of "part-time" and "when it's convenient" parenting.
Well if you c onsider that my last relationship, a common-law, lasted for 17 years. I am not sure where you get the part time. How long did your marriage last?
I helped raise her 5 children and they all call me dad.
Sounds to me like that is your true fear.
I'll say it again, no boyfriend or girlfriend will parent my children.
As a non custodial parent you don't get to make that choice.
So your attempt at control is rather pathetic.
And dread, next time try reading and comprehending the entire post before responding. Doubt it matters though, b/c anyone who disagrees with you is devious & spiteful, right?
If you check you will find that I didn't call you spiteful or devious. Those was your words, but if the shoe fits wear it. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 9:43:19 AM | funny I answered this question of yours: I'm wondering...will you feel the same way (that being, someone other than you or their mom has no rights to discipline, etc.) when she marries someone else? which indicates you didn't read my entire post b/c I did address it. As to differences, well I guess I would address the same way it is addressed now when SHE AND I have differences. But Step-Dad wouldn't be making the final decisions, my ex-wife would. Step-Dad would have input I'm sure. Boyfriends have NO say. My girlfriends have NO say. Girlfriends/boyfriends my impart their opinions during private conversations away from earshot of the children.
Dread, you're not really worthy of response b/c you haven't said anything tangible. I'm glad you helped raise 5 children. But fortunately for my kids, my ex-wife doesn't need that help. Her kids have a father to raise them.
As a non custodial parent you don't get to make that choice. I'll repeat very, very slowly for you: THERE ARE NO NON-CUSTODIAL PARENTS IN MY DIVORCE. WE HAVE JOINT CUSTODY. WE LIVE 10 MINUTES APART FROM EACH OTHER. WE HAVE CHOSEN TO STAY CLOSE TO EACH SO OUR KIDS CAN BE RAISED BY THE MOTHER AND FATHER WHOM THEY LOVE.
You're also kinda slow dread, I didn't say you called me devious & spiteful (i'll let you figure it out on your own). But you did call me controlling. I'm controlling b/c I'm not allowing a divorce be excuse to become less of a father? That's rich.
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 90 | |
| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 12:12:47 PM | Hey ripeagles, I was just curiuos, not arguing with you. I enjoy your posts. Your situation is similiar to mine in ( two homes that function well, with mom and dad minutes away and BOTH parents very involved) many ways and i agree with a lot of what you say.
With this situation though (cool that your ex has the same values) you do realize that you could not legally enforce what your trying to do here (with your view on bf/gf live ins) right say in another relationship down the road? | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 1:37:22 PM | That is what many have tried to explain but he would rather resort to insults then face the truth.
Rip I am glad that you are involved in your childrens lives. so many aren't. The fact remains though that controlling your ex through your kids as you are seeing fit to do will cause nothing but problems in the long run. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 5:10:00 PM | Pucks, I would go to court and petition for full custody. And my ex-wife would do the same if the situation were reversed. But this is something we knew about each other before we had kids so through our divorce, as contentious our relationship can be, the big picture view of child-rearing we concur on. Of course we have minor disagreements about certain parenting issues, but no different than the differences we had we were all living in the same house.
dread, go back and read what you wrote the first time you addressed me if you're curious as to why I'm throwing insults at you. Any insult I throw at any individual is ALWAYS in retaliation to a potshot thrown my way. (Whenever I throw the first volley it's in the form of sarcasm, not insults.)
Secondly dread, in what way am I controlling my ex-wife? We had children together. I'm not some alien entity who inpregnated her and then retreated to deep, dark, outerspace. She's free to make whatever decisions she chooses. And some choices come with repercussions. The repercussion of choosing to co-habitat with another man outside of marriage would be a date in family court. But, alas, as I've been trying to tell you over and over and over, that will never happen b/c my ex' and I have the same, exact views on the matter. I guess you must surmise that I somehow brainwashed her into thinking this way. Is that how I am mysteriously controlling her? If this brainwashing thing was so easy I would have resorted to beginning July 9th, 1989, the day we got married. I wouldn't have waited until 6 years after broke up.
On another point, I am utterly amazed that the premise of a biological mother and biological father co-parenting their children from birth to adulthood is such a foreign and unbelieveable concept to some folks. It's as though I came in here to argue that the world is flat or that George W. Bush is one of the smartest men in the world. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 5:38:12 PM | I am still utterly amazed that you think that a piece of paper can change ones values
The concept of the biological parents is a beautiful thing on its face. But is the days of NO DIVORCE women and children were beat to death in their homes (men too) because when they went to the authorities for redress they were told obey your spouse or father (or mother/wife) and you won't get hurt "go back to your family". Children were forced out of school to babysit for younger siblings so the parents could work or carouse. Even if the family was starving to death the wife was not allowed to earn money as it looked bad on the family.
These are the minority, but how much does it take to poison the notion that all biological couples will live in bliss forever. Apretty wreath on the door does not make up for hell inside the walls.
And if what you are trying to say that families that breakup should stay single until their children are gone .......... Humans were not made to live alone
Oh and by the way .............Families came about and survived many generations before modern legal PAPER marriages came about
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 7:03:00 PM | wullis, if that was addressed to me I missed your point.
All I see is that you have a problem with my ex-wife and I co-parenting our children equally. Just b/c it didn't work in your case doesn't mean those of us who give it a legitimate shot should be condemned for it.
And since that "piece of paper" is so trivial why are gays and lesbians making such a big fuss for same-sex marriages and legally recognized unions/partnerships?
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 7:50:12 PM | | ^^^has a lot to do with the tax benefits and recognition that same sex couples are as (in)capable as heterosexual couples for making things work. | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 9:20:14 PM |
in what way am I controlling my ex-wife
So nice of you to provide the answer in your own words in the same post.
She's free to make whatever decisions she chooses. And some choices come with repercussions.
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 9:20:44 PM | rjpeagles
I have addressed each point since you opened a debate with me a couple of pages back. I am only asking you NOT to veiw the world in black and white.
YOU keep bringing your ex into this, she has nothing to do with the subject EXCEPT YOU USING HER IN A SENARIO coupled with some bravado . I and several other took you to task ONLY for your SENARIO, not for the commendable efforts to co-parent your family.
Who is selectively Reading now??
You said "IF my exwife" that = Senario Please for a moment put BOB and Jeanie in the place of you and your ex, it won't feel so personal.
If my ex would enter into a coparenting accord with me it would be AWESOME, but I won't put peoples lives on hold waiting. I didn't ask for custody..... the court GAVE ME custody...I asked for joint custody, She asked for temination of my parental rights. When it was obvious the court wasn't going to grant her that she ran with my child. . Just as she theatened throughout the abusive marriage I stayed in several years after it was over, because I didn't believe in divorce. I gave it MORE THAN a legitimate shot . Now that she knows she can't keep me from my son she has lost interest, I can't get her to use her court ordered visitation on a regular basis, I bend the rules, change the times.... I don't know what to do.
I so want my son to see that two people can love one another without constant, accusation, violence and degradation, that they can live WITH cooperation and support and help each other make the families lives richer....................and I (just me) don't care if it comes with a marriage label or not..........I only care if the elements of love and respect are there. I didn't get that from my marriage
I hope now you can see my point of view............It is not black and white. Live happens, and it changes us. If you had been in my shoes you might feel the same
BTW before my ex ran with my son I said ........"I'll never let that happen, it happened to me, It will NEVER happen to my son. If she trys I'll have her locked up and throw away the key. (THAT BRAVADO SOUND FAMILIAR?) But it did happen, she took him and when (3 yrs later) the police took her at customs, I saw the look in my sons eyes and she never spent a day in jail........for him ('cause she deserved too)
Life happens and your "promises" bite you in the a$$.
Have a nice night | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/15/2007 9:51:31 PM | See, rip, the problem with the kids living with you during the "test period" is that they aren't experiencing what living together is actually going to be like. There's a big difference between living with just 2 people and living with 3-6 or however many there are. (sorry, don't know if you mentioned the number of kids you have)
I lived through it too, I never had a problem with it. My step dad, who is as good a parent as I ever had, above either of my birth parents might I add (though my dad isn't a 'bad' parent persay, he did have times where he was) lived with us for 4 years before he married my mom. They only ended up doing the marriage deal to save money on taxes, neither of them cared about a slip of paper. Why to you does a spouse have to be a legally binding thing? Again, as I asked, you think some guy who she'd known 2 months and was married to is more fit to help raise the children (as all step parents do end up doing to a degree, not a bad thing at all) than a guy who'd been around them and had loved them for 4 or 5 years? With the state of marriages today, what about it garners respect? I'm glad that you'll never have to deal with it, for both your sake and your childrens sake as it sounds like it'd be a big thing and that's not good for anybody, but I'm merely curious about your reasoning, because to me it makes little sense.
I don't think the point is about parents agreeing, but more about that if your ex did decide to move in with a boyfriend (not saying she would) that you would have no legal grounds to stop her. None. You're right that ideally kids wouldn't have 8-10 parents. I have 3 who I love very much. But we don't live in an ideal world. Would you then not have a problem if she married 5 more guys and all became a parent of sorts at some point? No different. I can understand your objection to her moving in with every guy she dates for a few months. But I really don't understand the problem with her moving in with someone she is in a long term relationship with. Say, over a year. Because frankly, at that point, many do get married. I really don't see how a slip of paper changes anything.
Most gay and lesbians don't want to be able to marry because of the slip of paper meaning anything within their relationship, but more about outside of the relationship. They want it as a symbol that they are equal, that they are not lesser. Its not about how much it means to have it but about how much it means to have it as it is to be able to get it. To be recognized equally in your society. And of course for tax reasons. | |
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babs3
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Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 99 | |
| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/16/2007 12:55:58 AM | Okay....I am a bit confused....the title of the thread is "New bf/gf vs children"...right?
I have one question for you all.....If the new bf/gf are "new"...isn't this choice a nobrainer? Who sets boundaries with their kids regarding "new" bf/gf's?
Introducing a person with the intention of having a serious relationship is a much different scenerio........but anyone "new"....will have to take the backseat for awhile! | |
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| Priorities: New BF/GF vs children
Posted: 7/16/2007 3:43:00 PM | wullis, i can only view this scenario as it applies to me and my children. Bob and Jeanie choose to go a different route, that's on them. If asked my opinion I will give it, but I will not condemn them for their choices.
But we are talking about My Children...so, say my ex-wife marries or lives with a man of a religion I don't really approve of, could they unilaterally convert my children to that religion. Would I have a say? Or would I have to just stand by and say "oh well, nothing I could do"? Of course I would have a say. They are my children, I have 1/2 of the say as to the type of environment they are raised. My ex-wife has the the other half. If she marries, then I still have 1/2 of the say in anything pertaining to my children. It doesn't convert to 1/3 Daddy, 1/3 Mommy, & 1/3 Step-dad. It's still 1/2 Daddy & 1/2 Mommy with Mommy deciding how much of her 1/2 she wants to divy out to Step-dad.
My values based upon my life experiences are that the MY CHILDREN are not going to live in a house where 2 non-married adults are co-habitating in a sexual relationship. And it's the value I am going to TRY to instill into my children. My hope is that I don't have any grand-children until I have a daughter-in-law.
That is my choice. That is how I CHOOSE to raise my children. Too many MEN in this world are way too cavalier with their parental rights, obligations, and responsibilities. This country is now conditioned to idea that it's no big deal for a man relinquish his fatherly duties, some other man will come along and take over. And the kids won't mind, because parents are inter-changeable. No different than replacing a pet.
I'm sorry, but that's not me and never will be me. Remember, we are all a product of our environment. I came about my beliefs for a reason, I didn't just pluck them off a stone tablet in the desert.
And dread, why did you waste keystrokes with that last reply. For someone who claims to be "just here for the forums" and "who's not here to make friends", I would think you would offer more insight. I noticed that you conveniently pluck portions of posts that best apply to your little one-line responses. Nothing you have offered on this subject has been very thought provoking, IMO, just non-to-subtle potshots. | |
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