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Posted: 3/14/2007 8:01:38 AM | ^^^ There is a very wide range of BDSM relationships from folks who do a little naughty sex play to those who commit to a "total power exchange".
If you like a few kinky things in the bedroom and otherwise live a normal lifestyle, that's not BDSM according to folks like Jon Jacobs. I don't like to repeat things he said to me in private conversations, but I feel that anything he said in public forums is up for grabs. This is from his obituary in Opentopia:
"Jacobs was often derisive of the softer side of BDSM and was much more interested in the relationship dynamics of Total Power Exchange. In a speech in 1996 he said: When you "submit" to or "dominate" someone in a situation where safe words are used and when limitations are negotiated, you are not actually submitting or dominating at all - you are playing at it."
See also: Defining The Bdsm Life Style: The Essential Prerequisite. Jon Jacobs and Polly Peachum. http://www.cuffs.com/stories/discTexts/jonjacobs.htm
In a total power exchange there are no safe words, no leaving, the slave has no power. If the guy (the dom is almost always a man) goes nuts on her, the woman is SOL. The stability of this type of relationship is totally dependent on the mental balance of the man involved.
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Posted: 3/14/2007 7:31:06 PM |
In a total power exchange there are no safe words, no leaving, the slave has no power. If the guy (the dom is almost always a man) goes nuts on her, the woman is SOL. The stability of this type of relationship is totally dependent on the mental balance of the man involved.
You really need to read more - or better yet, experience some more before you state things as absolute law.
The Dominant is most certainly not almost always a man. I can introduce you to a whole community of dominant women who could prove otherwise for you.
A TPE is totally dependant on ALL parties involved - on ALL of their mental stability. It's not something that should be done casually. The levels of trust and responsibility involved are mindboggling, to say the least. I would say that a person willing to give up total and utter control to someone who they don't know very well is by far the crazier of the two participants!
Having said that, this giving up of control IS what's attractive about the whole thing - but the goal is not to be abused. Abuse speaks very clearly of lack of consent - lack of willingness to participate.
Anyone can put themselves in a very dangerous situation - you hook up with a crazy, you hook up with a crazy.
Those of us who like BDSM flavoured activities are usually quite aware of the dangers our activities present - and because of that, I would say have a tendency to err on the safe side of things more often than a couple testing the waters for the first time.
Generalizations of the negative sort - especially those with little to no founding information - really suck. | |
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Posted: 3/14/2007 9:01:56 PM | well said sammygirly.... and all completely true.
the Domminate is definately not almost always a man.....stating that it is true is utter nonsense. I understand that she got her knowledge from discussing the topic with one person in the lifestyle and from this, she has based her complete knoweldge of the subject. the sad part is, most of what she said is not true. BDSM may mean different things to different P/people, and there are different levels in which O/others participate, but always consentual. if it is not consenting, then it would be abuse. and we all know that abuse occurs in vanilla relationships just as well as lifestyle relationships. TRUST is the key...the Domme needs to trust Her sub and the sub needs to trust his Domme. I look at it like this....the Mistress/sub/slave are on the same coin, just different sides!! | |
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Posted: 3/14/2007 9:29:17 PM | Responding to alexandria_gal's comments
i take offence that you would refer to a D/s lifestyle as abusive. i'll take into consideration though that only those who are uneducated on the subject would make such an uninformed comment. Contrary to popular belief, although the Dom is the one doing all the insctructing, the sub is the one always in control. Yes there are "Dom"s out there that prey on the naivety of new subs and can take it too far but that is the case in both vanilla life and D/s life. Abusive men or women are found in all walks of life and for a Man/Woman to call Himself/Herslef a Master/Misteress does not instantly earn Him/Her the tittle of "Abuser". In the proper setting a D/s partnership can be both rewarding and fullfiling. A well chosen Dom would be caring and loving while molding His/Her possession to be the vision of a slave that He/She needs in His/Her life. A well chosen slave would have taken the time to get to know his/her Owner, Protector and Trainer. he/she, after taking such time, would trust his/her Owner to know when he/she is ready to push new limits. | |
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Posted: 3/15/2007 5:09:07 AM | The problem, I think, is that she's presenting herself as an expert based on ONE man's opinion (not even her own, but someone she spoke with and/or read) on ONE aspect - and then listing the dangers of the most extreme aspect of kink, thereby insinuating that ALL kinky experiences fall under this trauma.
It's like telling someone who's asked about getting their nose pierced - that if they choose to go somewhere and get it done by a blind man with one arm they're likely to get their nose cut off and bleed to death.
Regardless, I'm sure the OP was asking about a little hanky-panky - NOT a total power exchange, for goodness sake.
Don't play with a blind person with one arm and you should be just fine. | |
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Posted: 3/15/2007 5:26:48 AM | | Anything that is done mutually with the full respect of the others boundaries can be done in good fun - simply to enhance your sexual experience with your partner!! Communicating and knowing each others limitations makes this kind of play a wonderful experience - if it is what you wish to partake in!! Nothing wrong with taking turns in the dominant role ,to give each other a chance to experience the positive side of this play!!! | |
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Posted: 3/15/2007 6:54:35 AM | Hmm . . . In any situation where most is one thing, of course, there are going to be some of another. So yes, there are some female doms, even in total power exchanges.
The reason for more abuse, and more abuse than in the general public, is simply the dynamics of the human beings involved. Shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. Someone who WANTS to be a slave full-time in (which is not the same as a submissive) in a total power exchange is usually pretty child-like in some aspects of their life. They could be a total killer in the business world, but have emotional needs that aren't met in an equal adult partnership. Someone who enters into an arrangement like this, who is child-like, is not equipped to leave if the other party goes nutso on them.
The sub is NOT the one in control. See the URL in my previous post.
The community tries to hide this, but if you look around you'll see postings on the net from people saying it's a lot more common than you think. And Jon said he sheltered a lot more abused subs than he ever wanted to see, which pretty much confirmed my suspicions.
All of this stuff makes about much sense to me as including a space walk in your sexual encounters, but different strokes for different folks. I only take exception to it when it becomes a real life-style and someone winds up getting hurt.
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Posted: 3/15/2007 7:30:18 AM | [The reason for more abuse, and more abuse than in the general public, is simply the dynamics of the human beings involved. Shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. Someone who WANTS to be a slave full-time in (which is not the same as a submissive) in a total power exchange is usually pretty child-like in some aspects of their life. They could be a total killer in the business world, but have emotional needs that aren't met in an equal adult partnership. Someone who enters into an arrangement like this, who is child-like, is not equipped to leave if the other party goes nutso on them. ]
What kind of informed comment are you making. Word of mouth or actual experience. i have to tell you, your ignorance on the subject makes you seem child like. You think wanting or needing to hand over, not be taken, hand over power to Someone you love and trust entales that part of their personality is child like? It takes a very strong person and intelligent to be able to handle the lifestyle and YES the sub is the one with the control. At least in partnerships where B/both are fully respectful of the rules. It is the sub's decision to submit all and freely but can at any moment take it back. You come sounding like you think you are some sort of expert on the subject yet you have never experienced the joy and blessings the can be experienced. Focusing only on the downside and worst case scenario. That in it's self is very unfair of you. i think before you can form an opinion on any subject you should do so from experience at least then you know what the hell you are talking about instead of sitting on the side lines and passing judgment on something you know nothing about. | |
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Posted: 3/15/2007 9:00:56 AM | Sigh . . . Since you won't read the information contained in the URL provided. I'll print the first few paragraphs from the pertinent section here and again print the url at the bottom. You can read the rest of the chapter by pasting the URL into a browser.
THE TOPPING FROM THE BOTTOM MYTH
The Topping from the Bottom Myth is the idea, held by a submissive woman, that she is really the one in charge of the relationship with her dominant. Whether through covert manipulation or direct demands, she calls all the shots, and her dominant is simply a figurehead. The submissive who believes this myth thinks that she controls her dominant in the same way that she's controlled all her conventional partners in the past. If she has genuine submissive needs, then being in control is the last thing she wants, but she believes that this is the only way things can be, and inevitably she is miserable in the relationship. Of course, some "submissives" do try to manipulate and control their dominants without seeming to. In addition some submissives wind up with non-dominant partners who cannot control them. In such cases, the myth is the reality. The Topping from the Bottom Myth, however, is usually held by sincere submissives who are not trying to control their situations and who have genuine dominant partners who actually control them.
Submissives acquire the misconception that they are in control from a number of sources. One is the Scene, many of whose citizens spend a lot of time spreading this propaganda. Not only do well known Scene personalities intone, in that certain voice that means they are imparting a great wisdom, that "the submissive is always ultimately in charge," but the heavy promotion of safewords, negotiation, and slave contracts in which the submissive makes it absolutely clear what she will or will not do gives newcomers the distinct impression that the powerlessness of the submissive in a power exchange is a sham.
Another source that supports this myth in the mind of a submissive woman may be, strangely enough, her dominant's kindness to her. The submissive who believes the Topping from the Bottom Myth misinterprets such kindness, such interest in her welfare and opinions, as weak, nondominant behavior on her master's part. She, who probably has been suckered by the Sir Steven Myth (described earlier in this chapter), compares her master's behavior to the ways in which she thinks the ideal dominant acts. If her dominant is not cold and aloof, if he is not arbitrary in his commands and completely oblivious to her needs in most matters, if he says "please" or "thank you" to her, if he cracks jokes at erotic moments when she is deadly serious, then he doesn't really own her or control her. It doesn't occur to her that he's being kind or gracious to her because he enjoys doing so; it doesn't occur to her that a benevolent dictator is still a dictator; it doesn't occur to her that most genuine dominants do exactly what they want to do and don't censor themselves to please a submissive's sense of propriety; all she considers is the clash between her fantasy of proper dominant behavior and how her dominant actually acts.
This is from "Defining The Bdsm Life Style: The Essential Prerequisite".
http://www.cuffs.com/stories/discTexts/jonjacobs.htm
As far as "knowing from experience" goes. I don't actually have to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge to know it's going to kill me. Some things you really can learn from reading about them and knowing people who do them.
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Posted: 3/15/2007 10:23:43 AM | | Here's a thought, how about you post an original thought of your own instead of copying and pasting thoughts from other individuals, who in my opinion also don't know duck from rooster as far as i'm concerned. As for "i don't have to jump from the Brooklyn bridge to know it's going to kill me", that is just a cop out to excuse your reckless comments and judgment on something you simply read. i stand firm in saying "don't knock it till you try it" till then sit there on the sidelines and SHUT UP!! | |
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Posted: 3/15/2007 10:23:53 AM | | but in all fairness, your bias information is taken from one person who was in the lifestyle and wrote a book on the subject....regarding it as "bible" and "truth". the information you had just posted was from one person's view. keep in mind, please, that those on here who challenge your comments are speaking from personal experience too. years and years of it too.... | |
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Posted: 3/15/2007 10:34:24 AM | That's one line of thought on the issue. An interesting one at that (which I've heard a billion times), however much I may disagree with it. The author's entitled to make statements he believes to be true. We, as readers, are entitled to interpret them as we choose.
For instance, I'd gladly debate his work with you and why I may or may not disagree - however, I've interpreted from your words that you don't actually have any interest in the topic. You're just using very negative pieces of his opinion to use as a sheild against any inch of learning or acceptance.
But one man's thoughts on a topic does not the bible make it, and I surely hope that nobody takes your twisting of his words to fit your skewed view as the law.
OP, if you'd actually like to discuss heightened BDSM experiences with someone who might know what she's talking about - feel free to email me  | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/15/2007 10:53:54 AM | Abuse in any sort of relationship is a 'lot more common that you think.' There are plenty of people who live in non-BDSM relationships who, regardless of their professional life have emotional needs which are not being met and who is not equipped to leave if the other party goes nutso on them. Some people choose to live this way and some are trapped into it, and it has nothing to do with chains & whips.
Where are the stats (I did read the link quickly and didn't see any) on abuse in BDSM relationships and how they compare to non-BDSM relationships? If you can point them out to me, I'd appreciate that. Just because postings on the net say it's more common that you might think, doesn't mean it is so. The net breeds lots of falsehoods and depending on where you look you can find erroneous and conflicting information.
And while Jon Jacobs is well known and has written and spoken about BDSM, TPE etc., his view and experience is not the only one. Maybe he did shelter a lot more abused subs than he'd like to have, but maybe he put himself out there as a resource. It seems your opinions come mostly through correspondence with Jacobs.
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Posted: 3/15/2007 11:15:45 AM | Actually my only interest in BDSM is that no one in the end is physically hurt by it. What consenting adults do is none of my business, and I don't with to make it such. It's hardly something that would heighten my sexual experience, lol. I'm not into such things.
The National Leather Association is the first BDSM organization to actually try and do something about the problem by establishing a referral network for abusive and violent BDSM relationships. Makes it a little more acceptable for a sub to seek help if his or her own community has services to help those in trouble.
I could give you 100 URLs about the problem of violence and abuse in BDSM (I've got bookmarks) and you'd still say the same thing. So what't the point?
I'd never accept one man's thoughts on a topic, even if he was well respected in the breath of his knowledge on the subject.
I'm hardly twisting anyone's words. Jon Jacobs thought BDSM relationships were good relationships. It's obvious from the many things he wrote about them. His own marriage was apparently a happy one that lasted til his death (and his worries over what was going to happen to his wife was mostly what we wrote about). This doesn't mean he didn't recognize the downside when those relationships devolved into violence and abuse -- and unfortunately that happened a lot.
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Posted: 3/15/2007 1:41:46 PM | Hi, I am new to Plenty. Just happen upon this forum.
Why is everyone giving alexandria gal such a hard time here ???
I think the people who are defending their BDSM lifestyle should just listen to a different viewpoint - she is only expressing a concern in some cases, she is not putting down your entire lifestyle. It won't hurt you to listen to other people's concerns -- if you are so convinced your lifestyle is good, then you should welcome the challenge and discuss it calmly and properly, instead of sounding so hostile and dismissive to her.
And for alexandria gal, I think they are just trying to explain to you there are people who enjoy this lifestyle without seeing it as an abusive situation for them. Something for you to consider as a possibility, I guess ?
This all seems kinda interesting to me. It is not something I have any knowledge or understanding at all. So, I have a few questions , just out of curiosity :
1) If a man calls himself a Dom, and he does this Dom with prostitutes - what is that ? or with people he doesn't know at all, just picking someone up from a bar or online - anonymous sex only -- do you still call it BDSM lifestyle ?
2) If a Dom says he will decide on everything he does to a sub, that he is in charge - that he does not want his sub or sex slave to tell him what he can or cannot do -what do you think of that ?
3) Is it interesting to you to consider the psychological aspects of people who only want to just be a sub or sex slave to men ? what about people who want to be humiliated in a very terrible way by men only, including being hurt physically, and being asked to drink the Dom's piss and eat his excrement. Is that healthy for any individual to get into?
4) Is asking for pain always good as long as it is consensual ? there are women out there who inflict pain on themselves even, using pins, knives and sharp objects - hurting their own sexual parts supposedly give them "pleasure". That is consensual , I guess, since she is doing it to herself even -- but is that good for anyone ? doesn't that indicate some problems in the person ?
Just friendly questions. Not attacking anyone here. If anyone into BDSM want to discuss this, please help me understand more. | |
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Posted: 3/16/2007 11:54:50 PM | I am overjoyed to see that in this forum, it is not a lone bdsm practitioner vainly attempting to educate, inform and defend the lifestyle from a group of detractors. Instead the uniformed are a minority.
I think that Alexandria is unfortunately labouring under a delusion created by a lack of bdsm knowledge. Those of us who do have significant bdsm knowledge/experience will have encountered Alexandria’s viewpoint countless times before. It is a typical vanilla perspective (Vanilla = non bdsm). Other vanillas reinforce Alexandria’s view, especially those with even less bdsm knowledge. It would be irresponsible to suggest that abusive relationships do not exist in the bdsm world. Alexandria’s fear of people becoming stuck in an abusive bdsm relationship is not unfounded. Abusers and victims do exist in bdsm – just as they exist every other echelon of society. Alexandria is also correct in suggesting that this lifestyle is particularly attractive to abusers and victims. I cannot fault Alexandria in that she perceives that the bdsm lifestyle appears to provide a perfect cover for abuse. The abusers are called Masters/Doms and are supposed to be aggressive and dominant, the victims are slaves/subs and must submit – and there are posts all over the web about them. However this is only a fragment of the situation. Due to the source of the information Alexandria provided to back up her perspective, we need to step back in time a little….
1992 the first audio was broadcast over the Internet, but there were only a million hosts so the majority of the world neither knew nor cared.. Google, Napster, Podcasts, Yahoo etc., had yet to be born. However, the Internet grew. In 1992, the world’s first commercially available browser was released. In 1994, Java was born, in the next few months basic chatrooms appeared and IRC had about 100 users. With the increases in sophistication and growing Internet users, like-minded people, thousands of miles apart were able to connect. Simultaneously, an ever-increasing wealth of knowledge became easily accessible. Bdsmers (like many other subcultures) created their own chatrooms and channels. Some early surfers found bdsm, with more people on the net, more people found bdsm. As lifestylers don’t advertise bdsm parties in the local papers, thousands of intrigued people could only explore bdsm online.
This situation resulted in two separate and distinct bdsm subcultures. Both subcultures talked about bdsm online, but, the bdsm lifestylers practiced in real life whereas most of the newly aware bdsmers, unable to find fellow bdsmers in real life, could only practise bdsm online through typed fantasy (cyber spanking etc…). By 1995 the number of online bdsmers had rapidly increased and many of these people wanted to meet and scene in real life the acts that they found so captivating and arousing in the chatrooms. Some of them met and managed to work it out and successfully transititioned from online to real-life. Other online Doms and subs seem to really believe that their online chatting with real life bdsmers and their fantasy cyber role-play had given them all the knowledge necessary to embark on real life bdsm play with a real partner.
An analogy I like is that playing a car racing game online and talking to people who can drive cannot prepare anyone to safely drive a car on a road. Similarly, Doms and subs without practical experience can in their ignorance and despite their best intentions, end up in situations where health and safety are severely compromised.
Also, the online role-play was an anonymous place for aggressive/abusive people to explore their need to controland abuse others in an environment in which the majority of others were too inexperienced to recognize it as abuse. Unfortunately, the proportion of real life bdsmers was decreasing in the chatrooms favoured by the newbies. So there were fewer experienced real life bdsmers available to identify abusive behaviour or to share accurate and informed knowledge. This brings us to 1995 – 1996. Jon Jacobs and Polly Peachum were among the informed real life bdsm crowd who realized that there was a problem. They decided to educate by publishing books about real bdsm and highlighting some of the things that could happen if people failed to fully recognize the difference between online play and real life bdsm. The excerpt Alexandria pasted was written in 1996. It was geared specifically toward the poorly informed and inexperienced online bdsmers. It was not geared toward experienced bdsm lifestylers, nor toward the many online bdsmers who were perfectly capable of differentiating between online and real-life. (The first couple of paragraphs explain this)
"Defining The Bdsm Life Style: The Essential Prerequisite".
http://www.cuffs.com/stories/discTexts/jonjacobs.htm
It’s not 1996 anymore. Today there is a wealth of knowledge from informed sources available online. Books on the topic can be found in mainstream bookstores. Access to the real life bdsm community is not difficult. Casual gatherings, fetish parties and sm fashion shows are advertised on online bdsm calendars for all over the world. The writing of Jon Jacobs and Polly Peachum (the authors of the information pasted by Alexandria) are openly scathing of any of these gatherings and suggest that individuals involved in these areas are only “playing” at bdsm. This couple were in a 24/7 bdsm relationship in which Polly gave all her power to Jon. Sadly Jacobs takes the position that a 24/7 TPE is the only way to be a real Dom or sub. Their type of relationship is an extreme example of bdsm. Within any culture the majority will cluster around moderate behaviour and choices. People who hold extreme views or have extreme behaviour are in the minority and likely have to defend their choices, not only to moderate members of their subculture but also to people outside of their subculture. Today there are many subcultures in bdsm instead of just two. I am not going to list them as they can all be researched with relative ease online. While I am sure that there are couples secretly living in 24/7 TPE relationships who totally eschew more public gatherings, it cannot be said that such secrecy is the choice of the majority because we don’t have valid and reliable data to analyse. It is very probable that by attending munches (casual gathering, no dress-up or sceening) regularly that one will become acquainted with real life TPE couples. There is no definitive rule book for 24/7 TPE relationships so, each couple interprets TPE differently and emphasizes aspects that are of particular interest to them.
With regard to subs progressing to a 24/7 total power exchange with their Doms who then go nuts……This is a most improbable situation. Taking a relationship through the steps of time, trust, openness, humility and honesty to reach a point where 24/7 is actually possible is a huge undertaking and requires an enormous amount of dedication from both parties. Abusive individuals are unlikely to have any of the qualities mentioned above so I think that occurrences such as the ones you are suggesting are very rare. Also, I cannot imagine any individual suddenly switching from mentally stable to violently nuts ( I presume Alexandria is suggesting an illness which is accompanied by violence) just as the couple have signed to TPE contract and the sub is restrained and helpless. This type of reasoning perpetuates a negative and inaccurate stereotype of people with a mental illness. The majority of mental illnesses don’t have violence as a symptom, although this stereotype has helped to market many a Hollywood film, However, I think it very likely that a naïve and uninformed woman or man who wants to be a sub could end up in a dangerous situation when meeting an Online Dom for the first time. This danger is not limited to first meetings of online bdsmers. Anyone who decides to meet up with a person they met online should take precautions to maintain their safety. In 1995-6, little information was available about the risks of real life meetings. Today, lots of advice about reducing risk is available. The site below is great and is specifically aimed at women.
http://www.wiredsafety.org/information/about_us.html | |
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Posted: 3/17/2007 4:28:40 AM | | You know, there is a lot of talk that makes it look like it can be gratifying; but, I fail to see how being struck with a whip can actually feel good and give you sexual release. Also, I don't see how being dominated by someone can actually be pleasurable. There is a lot of philosophical discussion...but, no one actually talks about the act itself. Is blood drawn? Are you brused and beaten? How would that feel good? | |
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Posted: 3/17/2007 7:52:20 AM | Great point Looking.
But not the easiest question to answer. In regard to "the act itself" there are countless acts that bdsmers participate in. It just depends on their personal preferences. I think that the reason why no one is talking about it is because it is such a deeply personal experience and this forum is not really an inviting or wise place to reveal ones vulnerability and deepest darkest secrets.
below is a cut and paste from this excellent website.
http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/encyclopervia/BDSM
On a physical level, BDSM "sensation play" often involves inflicting pain, even if without actual injury. This releases endorphins, creating a sensation somewhat like runner's high or the afterglow of orgasm, sometimes called "flying", which some find enjoyable. Some writers use the term "body stress". This experience is the motivation for many in the BDSM community but is not the only motivating factor. Indeed, a strong minority of BDSM participants (especially 'bottoms') may well participate in a scene they do not derive any physical pleasure from in order to provide their 'top' with an opportunity to indulge their desires or fetishes.
In some kinds of BDSM play, the 'top' (usually a dominant partner) applies sensation to the 'bottom' (usually a submissive partner) by spanking, slapping, pinching, stroking or scratching with fingernails, or using implements like straps, whips, paddles, canes, knives, hot wax, ice, clothespins, bamboo skewers, etc. The sensation of being bound with rope, chains, straps, cling wrap, handcuffs or other materials can also be part of the experience. The tools of BDSM play encompass a wide variety of items from specifically designed implements to ordinary household items, known as "pervertibles".
A pleasurable BDSM experience is thought to depend greatly upon a competent top and the bottom attaining the correct state of mind. Trust and sexual arousal help a person prepare for the intense sensation. Some have even gone so far as to compare adept BDSM play to musical composition and performance, each sensation like a musical note. Likewise, different sensations are combined in different ways to produce the total experience.
A skilled dominant can use all sorts of whipping, spanking and floggging toys and not leave a single bruise. There are many subs who like yourself have no desire to be whipped but may enjoy bondage instead or get off on verbal control.
The sensual appeal of being dominated and "forced" to do sexual acts (that he/she really does want to do, but isn't going to say that outloud) is really common in the non-bdsm world. Go take a look at the thousands of historical romance novels in bookstores. A typical plot could be a feisty woman who is kidnapped by a pirate and then carried off to his ship and he ravishes her until she finally capitulates and admits she wanted him all along. It's a multi-million dollar industry in which a woman submits to sexual domination from a skilled lover. Millions of vanilla women read these novels and have fantasies about different scenes in the novels. but most can only dream about acting it out. A submissive and dominant can actually do what these vanilla womencan only think about doing.
Hope that helps a little,
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Posted: 3/17/2007 7:57:57 AM | You know, there is a lot of talk that makes it look like it can be gratifying; but, I fail to see how being struck with a whip can actually feel good and give you sexual release. For some people it does not. Those people likely will not enjoy being whipped. For those that do, it can affect them on any number of several levels
1) Arousal from loss of control. Being out of control can cause a strong sexual reaction. The energy and passion of that control itself makes almost anything related to is sexual.
2) Endorphin release related to pain: Also known as the "runner's high", exposure to physical stress causes the pleasure center in your brain to release endorphins. Blood moves to the surface (making sexual organs more sensitive) and there's a general sense of euphoria.
3) Physiological reaction to contact: I recently had the pleaseure of introducing a girl to one of my floggers. She's never been flogged before and was a bit apprehensive. I've got different floggers for different tastes, but my favorite, when I'm light, feels an awful lot like getting a massage. It's relaxing and stimulating at the same time.
Also, I don't see how being dominated by someone can actually be pleasurable. Again for some it isn't. I would not enjoyit, but I'm a dominant. For others it is.
I don't personally understand how a man can be sexually attractive, but the women I've dated do. Different people have different tastes.
There is a lot of philosophical discussion...but, no one actually talks about the act itself. Is blood drawn? Not usually, but there are things considered "blood-play" where it is. Not my personal taste.
Are you brused and beaten? How would that feel good? Sometimes and sometimes. See above. | |
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Posted: 3/17/2007 10:09:07 AM | | I don't know. I'm still busy enjoying normal sex. But if I reach that point I'll be sure to let you know. | |
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Posted: 3/17/2007 1:27:19 PM | So, what's up with those guys who like daddy scenerios? Do you think they get off on little girls? Don't you think that a lot of doms are really abusive men? I can see how that would be the case.
It seems to me that those into BDSM are just really into abuse in general. Can someone tell me how it would differ? The only obvious difference is you're getting the other person to consent.
btw....I am not judgeing. I just would really like to know. Do you think if you are dating someone and they bring up they like the daddy scenerio thing that if you have childeren it might not be a good idea to have them around? | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/17/2007 1:31:18 PM | Sammygirly
Yes, of course there are bad relationships in the BDSM world - same as anywhere else - but to say that there is a lot of abuse for the most part is just plain insulting to those of us who enjoy the lifestyle, respect it and practise safely. It speaks to an opinion on us as persons.
A healthy relationship involving bondage? Surely possible. Again, not for me, but eh.
A healthy relationship with sadism and masochism...
That's a bit of an oxymoron.
After all, a masochist is ultimately ever-conditioning themselves for greater abuse. Particularly when mental abuse is involved as well, such as humiliation and insults.
Not remotely healthy, mentally or physically, and by definition folks are being hurt.
BDSM, once again, is a lovely catch-all vague acronym to slip the mention of sadism and masochism under one's radar.
basicallyforums:
It seems to me that those into BDSM are just really into abuse in general. Can someone tell me how it would differ? The only obvious difference is you're getting the other person to consent.
When it comes to sadomasochism, Basic, you've got it perfectly right.
In regards to submission/domination, you're still dealing with people getting off on power trips. I personally feel that a person who gets off on that might want to do a bit of honest self-evaluation as to why...
For bondage it might well be argued that it's just pleasing to indulge in trusting each other, as I should hope no one is being bound without clear consent.
Much more a grey area than getting sexually aroused by suffering, which seems a rather clear-cut wrong thing. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/17/2007 1:45:15 PM | I had this guy tell me about an experience he had with a woman who he flogged. He justified it by saying that was what she wanted. A lot of times you hear men who are into this sort of thing saying it is the woman who really wants it. You know, they are pain sluts and all. It just seems like a way for abusive men to get off on this stuff without fear of ramifications. People make it sound sexy....but really it seems as if it would attract the worst of the worst...think about it.
btw...what is wrong with making love to someone with out inflicting pain? Why does pain have to be brought into this? | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/17/2007 1:51:05 PM | in my opinion there is more "ABUSE" in a non BDSM relationship. When a submissive goes to see a Dom/me he/she is suppose to get to know said Dom/me before actually engaging in any play. Most of the times there are forms, or large discussions on what the submissive wants, and what the Dom/me wants.
I really wish people would read more, I feel that they need to be educated properly and not take it all in from just ONE individual.
http://www.ehbc.ca/home.html
http://www.wizdomme.com/infopack/
http://www.xeromag.com/fvbdsafety.html
Mistresses/Masters usually have guidlines they follow, they are more then willing to perform on an individual but they ask that you fill out a questionaire, and sign things, they are generally very intune with a submissives needs and wants.
So who ever is bad mouthing the BDSM community obviously has her facts messed up, or has had 1 bad experience.
It angers me to see that people who KNOW NOTHING on the subject can give such a argue! | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/17/2007 2:03:29 PM | VampGoddess :
So who ever is bad mouthing the BDSM community obviously has her facts messed up, or has had 1 bad experience.
Sure, because you, being the enlightened all-knowing soul you are, know what is truly right, therefore anyone who disagrees must be being ignorant and have no valid points whatsover, why you're hardly to be expected to counter said points with sound arguement!
Sure...
Mistresses/Masters usually have guidlines they follow, they are more then willing to perform on an individual but they ask that you fill out a questionaire, and sign things, they are generally very intune with a submissives needs and wants.
Yar, that's why they're having the subs sign forms. It's because they're 'in-tune', and it has nothing to do with merely covering their a***s in the law if something goes wrong(er). | |
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