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Yar, that's why they're having the subs sign forms. It's because they're 'in-tune', and it has nothing to do with merely covering their a***s in the law if something goes wrong(er).

After all as women we love men to tell us what to do and make us do things we really don't want. We need men to show us the way...especially the abusive type. We all just need to be educated.

I have been in MORE relationships as a Domme and myself I do not hurt my subs in ways the don't want to, yes I may attempt to push the boundry

Also, if you "greengreyblack" aren't into the whole scene then why put up such an arguement, specially when you have already said "its not for me" Have you actually been in these type of relationship?

I don't know. I'm still busy enjoying normal sex. But if I reach that point I'll be sure to let you know.

So, what's up with those guys who like daddy scenerios? Do you think they get off on little girls?

Don't you think that a lot of doms are really abusive men? I can see how that would be the case.

It seems to me that those into BDSM are just really into abuse in general. Can someone tell me how it would differ? The only obvious difference is you're getting the other person to consent.

A healthy relationship with sadism and masochism...

That's a bit of an oxymoron.

After all, a masochist is ultimately ever-conditioning themselves for greater abuse. Particularly when mental abuse is involved as well, such as humiliation and insults.

In regards to submission/domination, you're still dealing with people getting off on power trips. I personally feel that a person who gets off on that might want to do a bit of honest self-evaluation as to why...

I had this guy tell me about an experience he had with a woman who he flogged. He justified it by saying that was what she wanted.

Yar, that's why they're having the subs sign forms. It's because they're 'in-tune', and it has nothing to do with merely covering their a***s in the law if something goes wrong(er).

You know...you are so typical vampgoddess. Anyone that is just not into BDSM is just not informed.

It actually is a very loving type relationship...isn't it? Where you learn trust from the person that inflicts pain. It is actually a very healthy type of relationshp to be in. Women should just induldge in their inner subs...being the whores that they are.

Wow... you must be really good that when you hear the "word" you stop the pain you are inflicting. That must take some real control. I think that is so sweet you don't hurt your sub. I'm impressed.

Ah, you reinforce my earlier point of the unhealthy nature of this when you point out that you push their boundries until they say no, or rather 'banana', or indeed any number of possible safe words.

Sadism and masochism emotional or physical is just not good. Certainly not a something that has a place in a healthy relationship.

You are correct. Not suffering from any deep-seated self-loathing or despair, nor being of a sadistic or masochistic bent, I have not been in any such abusive relationships.

the OP's question was one of curiosity, she was wondering if BDSM can heighten the experience in bed. If she and her partner want to explore this side, my only advice is to both be on the same page about what each other would like to try....because you never know until you try. she may like it, she may not. and it all doesn't have to be about "whips and chains"....maybe try some light bondage, SAFELY, sensory deprivation..i.e. a blindflold.....

I don't have time to read nor address all this. All I can see from skimming over it is you mention religions i.e., muslim and how if women get out of line it is okay to...I don't really know what you were getting at. But, I can tell you this, many religions look at women as second class citizens so I am not surprised. That still does not help your argument towards BDSM.

Also you mention preditors and how many are not into BDSM. How would you know? I bet they would jump at the chance to play out these scenerios including rapists.

I don't care what people do in the privacy of there bed rooms. But, it is not healthy. I am not uninformed and I don't need to be educated. I know what BDSM is about through experience.

I'm an avid martial artist. I go down to a school several times a week and hit people and get hit by them. Does that mean that all these people are abusive because they hit me?

I doubt highly that you follow your own standard. What's the difference between battery and a boxing match? Consent? Do you think a boxing match is abuse?

Though, in fact, many of us have never heard a safe-out from our subs.

GreenGrayBlack: Yar, that's why they're having the subs sign forms. It's because they're 'in-tune', and it has nothing to do with merely covering their a***s in the law if something goes wrong(er).

JerryInTampa: I'm sure it's just rumor, but I heard that some non-BDSM people were signing pre-nuptual agreements. Really "in-tune" there huh?

Basicallyforums: You know...you are so typical vampgoddess. Anyone that is just not into BDSM is just not informed.

JerryInTampa: Perhaps you are not informed as to what a "straw-man logical fallacy" is. It's when you take someone's statement (say "people badmouthing BDSM are uninformed") and replace it with a statement that was not made (say "people not into BDSM are uninformed") and pretend that it was said by the person you are arguing with. You then find fault with the statement that you were the one to make, and pretend that it has something to do with what the other person actually said.

Funny, JerryInTampa, but I can't really tell wether you're supporting sadomasochism or just assaulting religion. Perhaps both. I wonder why you're dragging religion into it though.. I assume it must be part of a personal agenda, as I for one didn't invoke it.

What is the point of martial arts? To take pleasure from causing one's opponent pain? To take pleasure from being pained by an opponent? I didn't think so... Boxing? Is that the point of boxing?

I didn't think so. Your comparison is poor. You might think that's the point of them, but then you have basically said you're a sadist and/or masochist. Given as you paint yourself as a 'dom' ..

Call me absurd for suspecting you lean heaviest towards sadism. By the way, given those never-heard-of safe-outs the abuse conditioning must be going splendidly.

Duh, they're covering their a***s as well, though surely for different reasons, such as suspecting that their relationship isn't as solid as it may seem.

This'd be the grasping at technicalities. Basic's paraphrasing was accurate, and if she's guilty of any straw-manning then Vamp is surely guilty of the same. Moreso, in fact, as Basic made more of a distinction than Vamp bothered to by referring to those 'just not into BDSM' whereas Vamp tried to write off absolutely everyone who disagreed with it.

I can not tell you how many times I have heard them say, when someone says it is not for them, that the person is not informed or uneducated.

Jerryintampa, you are rather simply in the habit of claiming any rational arguement against your hobby is some sort of trickery, usually referencing 'straw men' or other phrases I'm fairly certain you don't understand yourself.

Meanwhile, ace, you're guilty of most of the errors you claim others are making, and another healthy portion are fictional. You're the one who first launched into personal attacks, even.

I've rather decided that you personally don't warrant more than the most passing responses, given your hypocritical and rabid approach is pretty hard to follow, and you often insist on churning so much of it out at one time! It's smokescreen.

So, in parting, you should really visit a 'psychiatrist', which I am not (And given as you can't even spell it I'm inclined to believe you aren't either.) , and figure out what your issues are and how you might manage them without exploiting those with low self-esteem under the guise of increasing brain chemicals and sex games.

"Wow, you are very uninformed"

That was taken from msg. 51. So, Jerryintampa....I don't know where you come up with your straw-man argument.

The only problem I have is with the people who try and make it look sexy. As if it is something to enter into casually with say others into it that you meet on POF. It's not, there are people out there with serious mental problems and believe me they are amoung those that really get off on this.

Also, even in long term relationships it can be very damaging. People that are into abusive love this sort of thing. I know what I am talking about people. I am not uninformed.