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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/19/2007 7:20:39 PM | Basicallyforums, you might as well let this thread sink into the septic tank of this forum and decompose naturally so that future generations might have e-oil for their future cybernetcars.
After all, there is no speaking reason to a rabid zealot. Whatever you say to Jerry here, he'll just start dribbling more about straw-man fallacies and ooze forth endless -and often misspelled- jargon interspersed with largely unrelated tangents and the odd personal attack until the matter is as confused as possible, thus hopefully -for him- improving the odds someone will come under the delusion he's right about something.
His victory is that of the flatulant man who stenches everyone out of an elevator, but convinces himself that they were just intimidated by his raw masculinity.
This horse is dead, let him beat it alone. He's about the only one likely to enjoy it, after all.
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/19/2007 7:24:13 PM | msg 60: Perhaps you are not informed as to what a "straw-man logical fallacy" is. It's when you take someone's statement (say "people badmouthing BDSM are uninformed") and replace it with a statement that was not made (say "people not into BDSM are uninformed") and pretend that it was said by the person you are arguing with. You then find fault with the statement that you were the one to make, and pretend that it has something to do with what the other person actually said.
jerryintampa: That is what you said...you were the one that brought up the straw-man fallacy. You don't even make sense. You just talk in circles. Where you write "your inference that BDSM = abuse is wrong"....I did not infer or imply anything. Do you know the difference? You tell me then....what makes you think people that people into BDSM are not into abusive. You make ridiculous arguments...including the preditors on dateline. You stated not one of them said they were into BDSM. Do you think they would admit it? They weren't even asked. Then you bring religion into it. I already addressed the religious issues. Anyways, I can't even keep up with all the crap you fling around.
yea you're right greygreenblack I am done here. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/19/2007 7:45:00 PM |
After all, there is no speaking reason to a rabid zealot. Whatever you say to Jerry here, he'll just start dribbling more about straw-man fallacies and ooze forth endless -and often misspelled- jargon interspersed with largely unrelated tangents and the odd personal attack until the matter is as confused as possible, thus hopefully -for him- improving the odds someone will come under the delusion he's right about something. You mean like "ad hominem" where someone makes comments about the poster rather than the post?
I notice you still have not responded to any of my points, nor have you supported any of yours. Other than "because you say so", how is a relationship including sadomasochism inherently unhealthy? (post 47).
That is what you said...you were the one that brought up the straw-man fallacy. You don't even make sense. No, that is what VampGoddess said. She is the listed author of post 51, which is the post you cited and quoted. As I am not VampGoddess, that is not what I said.
Where you write "your inference that BDSM = abuse is wrong"....I did not infer or imply anything. It seems to me that those into BDSM are just really into abuse in general." - Post 46
You tell me then....what makes you think people that people into BDSM are not into abusive. Some are. Beyond that the request for support of a negative claim does not make sense. Perhaps if you tell me what makes you think people into vanilla relationships are not abusive, I can see a way to answer that request.
You make ridiculous arguments...including the preditors on dateline. You stated not one of them said they were into BDSM. Do you think they would admit it? Actually, Dateline failed to mention it, nor show a single exmaple of it in the chat records. Though you are misrepresenting the point of me having brought that up.
They weren't even asked. Then you bring religion into it. I already addressed the religious issues. No, you've made a comment about the religious issue which did not interact with the comment the religious issues were put in response to.
Anyways, I can't even keep up with all the crap you fling around. OK. Then how about you ignore everything above and support your claim that BDSM is definitionally abusive?
You won't because you can't. You can't because it's not accurate. That's the same problem GGB is having. His initial posts were in direct support of you on exactly that false claim. Most everything since then has been an attempt to distract from that lack of support. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/19/2007 8:08:52 PM | "OK. Then how about you ignore everything above and support your claim that BDSM is definitionally abusive?"
Look at the act itself. It is abusive. See...that was exactly my point. There is all this talk about how it builds trust. Well, trust in what ....trust in the hands of an abuser that when you use the safe word they will stop. Really, Jerry I would like to know how someone can possibly say it isn't abusive. By definition BDSM is abuse. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/19/2007 8:28:26 PM |
By definition BDSM is abuse.
I'm thinking the SM part MIGHT be "abusive" - it's very unappealing to me, so I'll admit my prejudices. Still, to each their own.
But the BD part sounds relatively harmless and fun, as someone who'd be cool to it in a "playful" way (which I'm gathering strict adherents might sneer at as vanilla - but, I can't help that).
I still haven't had an answer to my initial "problem" with this. I'm scared of "playing" with true bondage (yes, I've done the "release" handcuff thing and blindfolds and such) because of what might happen in a worst-case scenario. What if he (or she, I guess), drops dead of a heart attack while you're shackled to the bedposts? Oy. I think I'd better stick to pretend stuff. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/19/2007 8:29:37 PM | | Omg, if you want to know about BDSM find th web site (the ehbc group) that will enlighten you about bdsm. the ops ? was to heighten the experience . we all make our own choices in life, what one peson may think abusive the other doesn't | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/19/2007 11:34:33 PM | errrr... ANYthing is only abusive if one of the parties is not finding pleasure in it.
To say that BDSM in inherently abusive is 1) A seriously mistaken call and 2) Insulting to people who choose to make it part of their lifestyle.
Sorry peeps, but it's just not our jobs to decide how other people's lives should be classified to suit our (sometimes) narrow views of what is "right and proper".
Beat me, whip me, cover me in Cool Whip and make me write bad checks.. . to each his/her own  | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 3:55:30 AM |
Look at the act itself. It is abusive. See...that was exactly my point. There is all this talk about how it builds trust. Well, trust in what ....trust in the hands of an abuser that when you use the safe word they will stop. Really, Jerry I would like to know how someone can possibly say it isn't abusive. By definition BDSM is abuse. I asked you to support your claim that BDSM was neccessairily abusive and your response is "BDSM is abusive".
All you did was repeat yourself.
Since you brought up "definitionally", let's look at the definition: http://www.answers.com/topic/sexual-abuse
1. The forcing of unwanted sexual activity by one person on another, as by the use of threats or coercion.
2. Sexual activity that is deemed improper or harmful, as between an adult and a minor or with a person of diminished mental capacity.
So essentially "rape" and "statutory rape", BDSM being neither.
The short version is that you have a positive claim and a positive claim requires support. Your only support thusfar is that you have asserted it.
You've attempted the analogy that
It seems to me that those into BDSM are just really into abuse in general. Can someone tell me how it would differ? The only obvious difference is you're getting the other person to consent. as though that was a minor distinction. I pointed out that the only difference between rape and sex was consent and that point went unanswered.
When I brought up other scenerios where people agree to be hit which were not BDSM (post 59), GGB's response was "those don't count", with no supporting reason.
Would you really like to know how SM and physical abuse differ? Some ways:
- Domestic violence is non-consentual
- Domestic violence is undesired (ask a domestic violence victim if they would prefer to not be hit. Now ask a masochist... even one who'se never been in a BDSM relationship).
- In an abusive relationship, the abuse generally comes out of fear or anger. In a BDSM relationship, the b/d and s/m activities (pain play, and bondage) are done for mutual satisfaction.
- An abuser has no regard for the feelings, needs, or limits of the victim. A BDSM dominant is concerned above all else with the needs and desires of the submissive.
- In a BDSM relationship, the submissive sets the limits. A victim of abuse doesn't get a vote; the victim can't tell the abuser what to do, or how much to do it.
- A submissive gets a way to opt out. This may be a code word, or a sign of some sort; if the submissive uses it, he or she has had enough and the scene is over. An abuse victim doesn't tell the abuser when to stop. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 7:20:15 AM | JerryInTampa: can you please explain something to me. I am not trying to attack anyone or anyone's lifestyle here, just trying to understand.
To help me illustrate my question, I have chosen an example. This is only an example, and I am not trying to offend you or try to equate BDSM with anything else. I am really just trying to understand.
So say, for example, there is this woman or man (it doesn't matter) , who has had a terrible childhood, s/he has been raped and beaten by her/his family members, s/he feels bad about herself/himself, has low self esteem etc., and s/he has a lot of unresolved emotional issues inside. (remember, this is just an example, I am not saying all subs have this history, okay ?)
And just bear with me here, its just an example, and so say this person gets sexual pleasure from being beaten, torture, raped, gagged, humiliated. The more severe the pain and humiliation, the more it numbs her/him for the pain inside. S/he is not aware of why this is so. This person looks to re-enact these childhood painful experiences with a Dom over and over again. This person wants or consents to the torture and the humiliation each time. This person will tell you h/she gets sexual pleasure from these re-enactments.
So my question is, do you as a Dom see anything wrong with doing to this sub what s/he asks for ? s/he asks for torture, beating, rape, humilation etc. as part of the Scene.
My next question to you is, as a Dom, what do you get out of doing something like this to the sub ? is it a general sense of power and control ?
I really just want to understand your point of view here. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 8:37:49 AM | Dawn , to answer or suggest .
Bondage of the type you're suggesting is exactly as it seems. There would be no release ( easily) if the person who tied you couldn't release you because of "croaking" or any other reason . I would suggest a third person be involved , be present , etc . Pretty safe then ... wanna try ? ;)
Mastermechanic | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 2:48:00 PM | And just bear with me here, its just an example, and so say this person gets sexual pleasure from being beaten, torture, raped, gagged, humiliated. The more severe the pain and humiliation, the more it numbs her/him for the pain inside. S/he is not aware of why this is so. This person looks to re-enact these childhood painful experiences with a Dom over and over again. This person wants or consents to the torture and the humiliation each time. This person will tell you h/she gets sexual pleasure from these re-enactments. The issue would be PTSD, and confronting it through vivid description / reenacment is termed (appropriately enough) "confrontation therepy". It's gaining a lot more use in psyciatric circles becuase it has a far higher rate of success than other methods of dealing with PTSD.
So my question is, do you as a Dom see anything wrong with doing to this sub what s/he asks for ? s/he asks for torture, beating, rape, humilation etc. as part of the Scene. As long as the play is not resulting in an increase in traumatic stress (in point of fact, it usually helps) then no, I don't see a problem doing it.
I've not seen this with general abuse, but it's not uncommon for women who enjoy rape-play to have been rape victims (many are, many are not). The play becomes a carthatsis for them, a way to take control over a traumatic event and build positive experiences to remove the power of the negative one.
My next question to you is, as a Dom, what do you get out of doing something like this to the sub ? is it a general sense of power and control ? Yes, that's certainly part of it. Just as pain and fear (masochism and danger-play) are the chemicals of arousal, so is aggression. The emotions I call upon to do convincing forceplay are very mcuh aggression, and do increase the intensity of play.
Now here's the neat part where I trun control into not control and then back. Watch carefully or you'll miss it.
I like control because it let's me please my partner. Knowing what she enjoys (including the loss of control itself) I can act to give it to her. I'm very much an empathic person. I could not enjoy myself if my parter were not enjoying herself on at least some levels.
Now back to control. I enjoy the ability to inflict pleasure; to give enjoyment. That is, itself, a form of control
Finally on the D/s aspect: Someone willing to give that control to me and enjoy doing so is demmonstrating an acceptance of me as a person. In the end, we all want the same things: love, trust, acceptance. That someone is willing to give of themselves so is accepting, as to my sub my willingness to take responability for her is my acceptance of her.
The other interesting thing is: once you've played with things like this in so specific a fasion, you start to see how much they are the underpinnings of so much of the 'nilla world. What is a marrage, espeically in the traditional sense, than a woman giveing up her name to a man who accepts her as his wife? There's a level of ownership (no more dating other people), a symbol of being owned (rings), and in most times and societies an established "who'se in charge of what" power exchange. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 7:09:19 PM | | I have a question, if you don't mind - I thought I saw through here that this can be used to help treat the ptsd brought on by a sexual abuse. Is that so? The reason I ask is it seems to me that once one becomes conditioned to the sexual release only when being under another's control, it would be difficult to change that... Although, i suppose it might work for a one time traumatic event...a reliving of that event and allowing the person to regain a sense of safety or power in that circumstance. What are your thoughts? | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 7:29:38 PM | Confrontation therepy is becoming popular for PTSD. It involves reliving the experience that caused the PTSD. This is most commonly done through a vivid discussion of the event, though psycologists will include role-playing an event or related events when appropriate.
it seems to me that once one becomes conditioned to the sexual release only when being under another's control, it would be difficult to change that I've met very few people indeed who only had release during D/s or BDSM play.
More common is that the desire for such play builds up a need of its own. I've seen it in plenty of other activites as well. People who start feeling the need to get out to the gym if they go too long without, or most any other physical activity that people can attach emotion to. So it is certainly know for (for example) a masochist to say "I'm really itching for a good flogging"... though I'm digressing from the specific discussion of rape-play.
Although, i suppose it might work for a one time traumatic event...a reliving of that event and allowing the person to regain a sense of safety or power in that circumstance. What are your thoughts? Even a repeated traumatic event. It doesn't address the event, it addresses the emotions around it. They seem similar to me to emotions like the following anticdote:
I had a friend who had some anger issues. He was well controlled (didn't lash out with it), but clearly carried it around on his shoulders. He was the youngest of three boys and had been picked on by his brothers as a child. He and I were both in martial arts and he became involved in teaching some defense workshops. As part of the workshop, he'd play attaker in a very serious manner. He had to draw up real anger as the goal was to psycologically break what the other person was doing. After a few months, he wasn't angry any more. Having had an outlet for the emotion had addressed the issue.
It's not an example of confrontation in PTSD, but I believe it works the same way . Perhaps there are some articles on it out there from a medical professional? | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 7:33:53 PM | Judyluvsvegas
- I thought I saw through here that this can be used to help treat the ptsd brought on by a sexual abuse. Is that so?
Before giving that any sort of credit, I highly reccomend reading JerryinTampa's other posts. Consider the source, in other words. He'll claim virtually anything to justify himself.
He's not in this for anyone's well-being but his own, and -once again- he's guilty of crimes that he normally loves to accuse of pretty much everyone else who disagrees with him.
Namely, he's suggested that Bondage, domination/Submission and sadism/masochism are like valid therapy, and I note he's the one that offers no statistics, etc. etc. In short, his only goal is to give the illusion of legitimacy.
No, I don't think it's going to help anyone get over traumatic events of abuse. I think, if anything, it would reinforce a victim's delusions that they deserve it, and to instead take a rather dark sort of pleasure from further abuse born of self-loathing.
In other words, encouraging them to be happy to see themselves being tormented for being the -insert cruel and vulgar insult here- they think they are.
By far, I believe it's those that reinforce such beliefs for their own gratification that deserve to be named -insert cruel and vulgar insult (s) here-.
looking4u2345
^^^OMG...are you a psychiatrist Jerry? If not, I would not be advising people to relive their past sexual abuse.
No, I don't believe he is. If he is, he's perhaps one of the worst to blight the field. Horrific advice aside, most of the time he can't even spell 'psychiatrist'. | |
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Posted: 3/20/2007 7:34:57 PM | | ^^^OMG...are you a psychiatrist Jerry? If not, I would not be advising people to relive their past sexual abuse. | |
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Posted: 3/20/2007 8:06:27 PM | Namely, he's suggested that Bondage, domination/Submission and sadism/masochism are like valid therapy, and I note he's the one that offers no statistics, etc. etc. In short, his only goal is to give the illusion of legitimacy. Actually I suggested that exposure therapy (sorry guys, was using the wrong term with "confrontation therapy") was an often effective method of treating PTSD.
There are some statistics cited in the broadcast that can be listened to at http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7638013
http://www.psychologymatters.org/keane.html
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p030201b.html
http://ptsd.factsforhealth.org/exposure.html
http://today.reuters.com/misc/PrinterFriendlyPopup.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2007-02-27T221716Z_01_N27274562_RTRUKOT_0_TEXT0.xml&special=true
After six months, 41 percent undergoing prolonged exposure therapy no longer met the criteria for post-traumatic stress, and 15 percent achieved total remission, the study found. That compared to 28 percent of those in present-centered therapy who no longer met the criteria, and 7 percent pronounced cured. - United States Department of Defense
No, I don't think it's going to help anyone get over traumatic events of abuse. I think, if anything, it would reinforce a victim's delusions that they deserve it, and to instead take a rather dark sort of pleasure from further abuse born of self-loathing. Well, you asked for support for my supposition. I gave it.
Now I'm sure you'll be happy to reciprocate? No? Why am I not surprised.
I thought you were done with this dead horse anyway? It seems your ability to follow through on what you say is no better than your ability to support your position or taste in attire.
OMG...are you a psychiatrist Jerry? If not, I would not be advising people to relive their past sexual abuse. If any of what I have said has been read as such advice then either I misspoke or the person in question misread.
I'm discussing my opinion. If someone would like some sincere advice concerning PTSD related to sexual abuse it would be "discuss this with your therapist". If it's coupled with a desire for BDSM, then they should discuss that as well. It may or may not be a good idea, but their own therapist would be the person to tell them that, not text on a screen. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 8:26:09 PM | For the sake of the woman who might think Jerry has amended himself rightly...
Note he still hopes to suggest valid therapies are very similar if not the same to domination/Submission, bondage, and sadomasochism.
You might also note that not one article he puts forward actually come anywhere close to suggesting that said sexual practices are valid treatments or even good components.
Meanwhile he somehow happily neglects to admit he's not a psychiatrist as he was asked, perhaps hoping the omission will lead others to give him more credibility.
To you, Jerry: I would just as well let you proverbially brutalize this proverbial necrotic equine alone...
But for the fact I was rather alarmed that someone thought you might have point to imply domination and Submission and sadomasochism sessions were anything akin to true therapy.
Back to the dangerously hopeful woman who might have been misled:
A quote from a site Jerry links to...
http://www.psychologymatters.org/keane.html :
Exposure therapy, previously known as imaginal flooding therapy, involves carefully exposing the patient to prolonged and repeated imagined images of the trauma until the images no longer cause severe anxiety
Emphasis here on 'carefully', and 'imagined'.
Hardly the same as making the patient viscerally re-live the traumatic event, and vastly different from attaching sexual connotations to it.
Indeed, it's much more like saying 'boo' softly to someone who's been conditioned to equate it with a painful electric shock until they no longer do so nor have anxiety from it rather than say... Saying 'boo' and then hitting them with a cattle prod.
I suspect the latter would, indeed, lack the potentially healing and effect of the former. I dare say it might even make the problem worse!
To be fair, I suspect at least initially that Jerry's approach to this is more like saying 'boo', and then hitting them with the cattle prod while at the same time pleasuring them.
I'm inclined to think that this is meant chiefly to condition them to accept the abuse and equate it with pleasure. One hell of a mixed message either way. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 9:00:08 PM | After reading JerryinTampa's answer, I am VERY concerned . While I am not suggesting that in all cases this is true, but I think BDSM practices can sometimes be highly damaging to a person's emotional scars, especially those most vulnerable and susceptible to further emotional damage.
I mean, the people who are attracted to being a sub in the first place may very well be people with emotional damage in their past. Why would anyone normally "want" to be controlled, punished, beaten, hurt, and raped in the first place ? To suggest that you would actually further traumatize an abused or rape victim with further abuse or rape scenes sound dangerous to me. It is like saying lets help a rape victim by raping her over and over again, until she becomes desensitized to rape. That just doesn't sound right at all.
And the consent thing is scarry to me. Someone with deep emotional problems do not really know what they are doing sometimes. If you consent to harming yourself, is that a good thing ?
I am not saying BDSM is always bad, but I do have concerns. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/20/2007 9:05:09 PM | Re: is it ironic that a member named "Shy Guy started this?
So funny - Shy Guy is so shy he disappeared. | |
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| BDSM to heighten the experience
Posted: 3/21/2007 1:27:53 AM | | I am not into SM but really find the whole bondage and dom/sub thing fun. I like playing both dom/sub at different times. But I wouldn't do it with someone I hadn't had sex with before. And it would be in the bed room only. If I ever had a guy control me or want me to control him in every day life I would show him the door! But I think most people could find at least some light bondage or dom/sub fun so I would suggest trying it out even if it is as simple as being blind folded. | |
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Posted: 3/21/2007 4:20:21 AM | You might also note that not one article he puts forward actually come anywhere close to suggesting that said sexual practices are valid treatments or even good components. That's because none address BDSM. Where are your articles? Where are your statistics? What are your credentials? Where is the logical support for your position?
You've offered none.
When are you going to support even your first assertion that SM=Abuse? We are all still waiting.
To you, Jerry: I would just as well let you proverbially brutalize this proverbial necrotic equine alone... Glad to know that while you cannot be bothered to support a single thing you say, you can be bothered to make excuses for your actions.
Hardly the same as making the patient viscerally re-live the traumatic event, and vastly different from attaching sexual connotations to it. Reliving an event would be going out and getting raped. But don't let reality interfere with your rant, do go on.
Indeed, it's much more like saying 'boo' softly to someone who's been conditioned to equate it with a painful electric shock until they no longer do so nor have anxiety from it rather than say... Saying 'boo' and then hitting them with a cattle prod. Based on your vast knowledge of a therepy you only just heard of when I brought it up? Confronting the causes of PTSD is far from "a soft boo".
I'm inclined to think that this is meant chiefly to condition them to accept the abuse and equate it with pleasure. One hell of a mixed message either way. But as always, this is based entirely on your imagination. You challenged me to offer support and I did. Where's yours? Absent as always.
After reading JerryinTampa's answer, I am VERY concerned . While I am not suggesting that in all cases this is true, but I think BDSM practices can sometimes be highly damaging to a person's emotional scars, especially those most vulnerable and susceptible to further emotional damage. This is true for any activity. While rape-fantasies can be a result of a traumatic event, so can an aversion to sex of any kind. Having sex can then be highly damaging and cause further emotional damage.
That's why I'm explicitly not suggesting rape-victims "just go out and try it" (as you may recall, I explicitly did suggest speaking with a therapist first). It helps some, harms others, and does neither for most.
I mean, the people who are attracted to being a sub in the first place may very well be people with emotional damage in their past. Why would anyone normally "want" to be controlled, punished, beaten, hurt, and raped in the first place ? Firstly, that should be "or" not "and". Not all of those are neccessairily together.
Secondly: Why would anyone want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane?
There are different reasons for different people. If you think BDSM only attrcats people with emotional damage / PTSD then I would have to suggest that you don't know very many people in the community. While I've certainly met people with issues in their past that one could see as causal, it's not been the norm in my experience.
If you read back a page or two, I did outline some of the reasons people would seek out some of the activities.
To suggest that you would actually further traumatize an abused or rape victim with further abuse or rape scenes sound dangerous to me. It is like saying lets help a rape victim by raping her over and over again, until she becomes desensitized to rape. That just doesn't sound right at all. Or telling someone afraaid of horses that having positive experiences interacting with horses will help them get over their fear.
Look at the prjudicial language used "abuse", "raping". Neither BDSM nor rape-play is inherently abuse; and rape-play is not rape. You've assumed your conclusion to make your assertion.
And the consent thing is scarry to me. Someone with deep emotional problems do not really know what they are doing sometimes. If you consent to harming yourself, is that a good thing ? So rape victims should not be allowed to vote, sign contracts, or get married? After all they lack the ability to make informed consent? Is that what you are saying?
I agree that harming yourself is a bad thing. I've not advocated self-harm. I've done quite the opposite and recommended caution to make sure that something is not harmful before engaging in it (you may recall my advice to those with a history including being raped should discuss rape-play with a therapist before engaging in it, which should also cover your concern of informed consent). | |
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Posted: 3/21/2007 6:12:15 AM | LOL, I hardly think you can equate rape with just a fear of horses . Re-enacting something that is hurtful /harmful to others is not acceptable. Rape, or torture is not the same as learning to ride a horse, for heaven's sake. Calling it "play" does not change it.
I just want to draw attention to the problem of "consent" in some cases. Some BDSM members talk about so-called consent as if there are no problems. Some people "consent" to harming themselves. That is a problem. And how many subs/slaves you know would go see a psychiatrist before they "consent" to being tortured, controlled , raped and humiliated ? | |
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Posted: 3/21/2007 6:18:38 AM | | Greengrayblack - thanks for posting. You're probably right. I person so torn up would only be prey. It's a bit similar to the mentality of cutting, I guess. I just thought he might have been familiar w/triggers b/c of the martial arts and wouldn't it be wonderful to have someone willing to help....Oh, man - desperate people consider desperate means. | |
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Posted: 3/21/2007 4:39:52 PM | LOL, I hardly think you can equate rape with just a fear of horses . Re-enacting something that is hurtful /harmful to others is not acceptable. Rape, or torture is not the same as learning to ride a horse, for heaven's sake. Calling it "play" does not change it. So you are saying that I cannot equate PTSD with PTSD? That's odd. The entire psyciatric community does. A traumatic event which causes an anxiety-response disorder is basically the same regardless of the cause.
But I offer you the same opportunity as GGB. Support your claim that there's a fundamental different in the psycological effect on the victim in the two events other than "cause you say there is".
BTW, in your opinion, is PTSD cuased by your buddy dying in combat with you there better or worse than PTSD caused by rape or sexual assault. You seem to be asserting knowledge, how consitant are you willing to be regarding that?
I just want to draw attention to the problem of "consent" in some cases. Some BDSM members talk about so-called consent as if there are no problems. Some people "consent" to harming themselves. I miss your point. Are you saying that all consentual acts are bad?
Of course you are not. You are saying that some are bad and others are not. I'm not sure to what extent I agree that there are truely "bad" consentual acts, but I'll accept it for the sake of argument. Where your problem still lies is that you are attempting to infer, with no support, that consentual SM (or rape-play, I'm not sure which you are prattleing on about now) is in the "bad" group. You've offered no support for this claim.
That is a problem. And how many subs/slaves you know would go see a psychiatrist before they "consent" to being tortured, controlled , raped and humiliated ? For 33% of the ones I know whether they did see a psyciatrist/psycologist specifically over BDSM the answer is "yes" (3 of 9). For the rest of the community I don't know.
You don't know either. In fact, you know far less than I do as you don't really have any sampling to go from. The difference is that you are ignoring your own complete ignorance and proceeding forward with assertion after assertion.
I'm actually pretty appriciative of it (your willingness to make one bold-faced assertion after another with no support at all). It gives me an opportunity to make a public specticle of exactly how pompus and ill-informed the knee-jerk anti-BDSM crowd is. (BTW, it's interesting to note that you've no picture, no unneccessairy details, the defaults on the neccessairy details, a minimal description, and this is apparently the only thread you've posted on. Combine that with the pretext of "I'm curious" that you started with before reversing to mimic GGB, and I'd suspect that you are a fabricated profile... which likely makes you GGB himself. That's pretty pathetic if it's true) | |
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