| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/16/2007 5:18:00 PM | Rickit,
If this is what is happening to you I suggest that you act like the "dog" she is trying to tell you you are (make sure you pack all your stuff first tho...there will be no going back man....).
If you're a "bad doggy"?
Leave a fresh steaming loaf for her on the new carpet. Trust me, she'll be waiting with a newspaper and spank your bottom. That wouldn't be bad, its the whole "rubbing my nose in it".
Fool me once...that's why I make sure my bags are packed!
Cheers | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/16/2007 5:22:29 PM | Sex is a commodity. Sex is not free in any relationship.
You might not be paying some woman on some dark corner, but you are going to "pay" in different ways. Usually those ways require some kind of maintenance. That's just how relationships work.
And it's not all bad. If you get caught drunk driving, odds are you aren't going to get laid for a while. If you keep drunk driving, odds are you aren't for a long while and you will probably get kicked to the curbside with the trash. If you buy someone a new car, of course, you are probably going to get laid.
Is that kind of like being a whore? Sure. But those men who have to break their backs and shuffle off their dignity to lousy bosses and mindless jobs to get a paycheck to keep you maintenanced. They are whoring themselves too.
Sometimes I read in the paper about some famous person getting caught trying to pay for sex. And my other female coworkers will point and judge and smirk and make fun of the person asking "Why is he paying for it when he can get it for free?" Well the reason he's paying for it is because the "free version" isn't all that free to begin with to start.
Life is about tradeoffs. Sometimes you have to take crap from work or family or friends and do things you don't want to do to survive. That's real life. Getting and giving regular sex is no different, it's about tradeoffs. I could be giving it to someone else, but I'm giving it to you, in exchange, you have to do the basic things like have a job and don't get into bar fights every night or don't go robbing banks. I can ask for that because if you don't feel like complying, I can just go and find someone else who will.
Sex as a training tool?
Well I just think anyone who thinks sex is "free" in any form is just a tool period. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/17/2007 7:26:02 AM | There is way too much Girlpower in this thread. I never feel that sex is something that has to be provided, but it’s nice. If I had to deal with high maintenance to get it and/or had to work for it in the form of a rewards process then I would have to start my own rewards process. It would be like keeping score… yeah right….. oh no wait I would move on to a more mature lady. Also, if the girl is holding out on me for whatever reason I would have to re-evaluate our relationship. Women don’t act this way, girls do. Hence why I said Girlpower earlier in this thread. I feel that is a maturity issue, and frankly I don’t want to date a girl, I’d prefer a woman. High school was over 10 years ago for me.
Mr. Right | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/17/2007 8:50:04 AM | i totally disagree with the use of sex as punishment/reward.
then again, i disagree with that line of thinking regardless of whether it's sex or another thing. i don't teach my kid by punishment/reward and i'm sure as hell not going to treat a partner that way either.
if the guy's pissing me off though, chances are i'm not in the mood. not as a punishment, but because emotionally, i'm just not there at that moment. if the guy then changes his behaviours and we talk it out and i'm not pissed off anymore, then we can work on getting in the mood! | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/17/2007 10:07:17 AM | Unfortunately, this happens all the time. But only with some women. There are plenty of us who enjoy sex for it's own sake, not for it's usefullness as a "carrot."
I see the initial waiting game that women play in the same light...he wants sex, she wants sex, they're both turned on...but she's going to wait until he's jumped through a few emotional hoops first. We are told constantly that if we "put out" too soon, we lose a man's respect and interest and any chance of a relationship. Hence sex is frequently part of the "bait" to entice a man into a relationship.
However:
It's just another one of those things that women will swear
they don't do, but I have yet to see a woman, that is angry
with a man, engage in sexual activity!
If I'm angry with you, I'm not going to have sex with you...or play cards with you, snuggle up for a movie with you, or do much else with you until we've talked and I've cooled off.
Would you guys really spend time doing something that is supposed to be fun, whether it's naked fun or not, with someone you were angry with?? | |
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Game0n
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Joined: 2/23/2007
Msg: 31 | |
| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/17/2007 10:22:09 AM |
If I'm angry with you, I'm not going to have sex with you...or play cards with
you, snuggle up for a movie with you, or do much else with you until we've
talked and I've cooled off.
Very well put.. actually the whole post was good. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/17/2007 11:31:03 AM | | I personally DO NOT UNDERSTAND why some people would use sex as a tool to get what they want. To me, sex is very pleasurable...and if I am angry, pissed off, it's a great way to calm each other down. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/17/2007 12:05:50 PM | It just all goes to show how our Egos get in the way of
our relationships! Most of us have little spoiled children
within us, that want to dish out punishment, when things
don't go as we like, or others don't behave as we want them to.
I have found (just recently) that it takes inner strength and maturity
to make a partner you are angry with, a cup of coffee, when you are
angry with them, as you might any other time.
Making love, SHOULD be no different. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/17/2007 10:33:21 PM | Sounds good, but that is blackmail. Women's emotions play a big part of our sexuality. This is why you hear that men respond to sex like a gas engine and women as steam engines. Hurt our feelings and it's like trying to start a fire with green wood. We do try and feel like failures.
By the way, I've seen some men use sex as a weapon the same as some women do. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/17/2007 11:50:57 PM | I would have to agree with Game on this one. We all do it, okay 99.9% of us do it. Granted I don't use sex to punish my BF, but I do use sex appeal to get his attention. I'm a huge flirt, and I'm good at it too. I have gotten out of tickets, gotten concert tickets cheaper, hell I even gotten free gas from flirting. Come on , now a days that is a huge deal! LOL
Anyway, men and women do it all the time, for there own reasons. Some for the good, and some for the bad. It's one of those "Facts of Life". Learn to live with it. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/18/2007 4:52:36 AM | oh man i have heard that countless times from women
'look what he bought me! he is getting the blowjob of his life tonight'
among many others.
but the fact is we know they do it. and i dont feel like im being played. so she gives it up because moved some furniture. she also cleaned my apartment and cooked me dinner and i didnt have to do anything else. in the end its all even. as long as she knows you know she does it, then no one is being manipulated. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/18/2007 5:11:43 AM | Yes.... it's not just you. All women do this, some are just more subtle than others. some may not realize they do it at all.... and some have perfected it and blatantly use the sex as way to control and manipulate..... WKRP In Cincinnati once did a bit where Herb Tarlic opened up to Jennifer and complained he was treated like that at home.... "mow the lawn Herbie, or no 'num-nums' tonight!"... funny shit I tell ya.
The solution is easy though..... Talk to her. Tell her when she says things like that it demeans you, and has to stop. This talk shouldn't be a fight, and will go a long way to improving your relationship and sex life. There might be more wrong in the situation than a few choice words, and this would make a great start to fixing a few problems. Tell her that and you'd be surprised how far it will go!
Good luck!
Cheers! | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/18/2007 6:24:37 AM | Well Ivory I have never actually looked at a cheesy 70's sit-com for life lessons or relationship advise but to each their own. I will agree with you on your point about talking. There are two distinct things being discussed here and we need to keep that in mind. In regards to the so called holding out part, If we are discussing sex after a disagreement: when you talk to her you may hear what many of the women here have been saying all along. If I am emotionally "seperated" from you at the time, Sex is out of the question, just like Snuggle pointed out so are many other things are as well. That is not teaching you a lesson or punishing you like a bad puppy. May I say that if that is your first reaction perhaps you are not paying a whole lot of attention to your SO and their emotional well being if you think that little of a person you supposedly love and have respect for.
Regarding the sex as a reward thing I can tell you that I may have made a bad joke about that occasionally to a girlfriend, I can tell you however that I have never used that with my ex as that is disrespectful to both him and myself as well as what our sex life meant. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/18/2007 10:02:50 AM | A lot of this stuff is very amorphous and grey...
It's one thing to say "You moved my furniture, therefore I'm giving you a great BJ" or worse "If you move my furniture, we'll have naked fun." (Couldn't that be construed as prostitution?) Or "Take out the trash or else you get no nookie tonight."
But that's completely different from having you do something wonderful for me, so that I am in a great mood and very happy with you, and we have fabulous sex because my mood is so high. Or if you do something aweful, and therefore I'm upset, we don't have sex because I'm upset (if it were that bad, I'm sure you would also be upset)
So, it comes down to intent, and mood. Women do have an physiological connection between physical and emotional intimacy, so that our mood affects our libido more than it does a man's. That's not our fault.
However, intentionally using sex as a reward, or withholding it as punishment...I can't see the difference between that and prostitution. Sex is not a currency. | |
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Game0n
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Joined: 2/23/2007
Msg: 40 | |
| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/18/2007 12:14:25 PM |
So, it comes down to intent, and mood. Women do have an
physiological connection between physical and emotional intimacy,
so that our mood affects our libido more than it does a man's. That's
not our fault.
I believe the whole problem with this entire thread is the way people perceive
what is being said. What one will take as being sexy and playful another will
take as being sluty and controlling and one has absolutely nothing to do with
the other. Like snugglesmacks said "it comes down to intent, and mood"
Some people like the OP may take things out context and miss the intent entirely.
Women know men show a weakness for sex... and I'm not saying women don't
have the same weakness just that men aren't as good at hiding it. So women play
us a bit... so what. And most of us men enjoy being played. It's almost like
foreplay to us(don't take that out of context now ladies) as long as women aren't
holding it over our heads like a cookie... and some women may do that I dunno but
none that I've ever been or want to be with.
Sex as a reward is a mutual act between to people who love each other.
Quit twisting things around people and be a little more playful.
Game0n | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/18/2007 3:18:48 PM | | SnuggleSmacks and Game0n - thank you for putting this into proper perspective. Once I start seeing blackmail I get edgy and defensive. You did an excellent job bringing up the things I wanted to, but failed at. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/18/2007 3:53:48 PM | BTW...regarding flirting to get out of a ticket, or get free stuff...
I've been offered free things because a guy was flirting with me while working...for example, I was once given a whole free meal at Arby's because the manager thought I was cute. I wasn't even flirting. He was. And if I had been, I don't really see anything wrong with that if the guy is playing along.
When a woman is pulled over by a cop, and flirts, and therefore gets out of a ticket, the cop is allowing her to get off the hook in exchange for the ego boost she gave him. Now, we could open up a whole discussion about how ego boosts are also not currency, and should not be used as barter, but aren't you more likely to do something for someone who makes YOU feel good?
In order to get free stuff or get out of stuff by flirting, both parties have to play along. That cop is enjoying himself. What's the harm? It's not like he really thinks you are going to reach over and unbuckle his belt and drop his drawers right there on the street.
Now take that one step further into sex in a relationship...as I said before: "aren't you more likely to do something for someone who makes YOU feel good?" Make me feel loved and valued, make me laugh, make me feel connected to you...you're getting some tonight. Hell, why wait? You're getting some now!
Make me feel hurt, disconnected, distant, taken for granted...your prospects are not as good. And that should go both ways. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/18/2007 5:47:09 PM |
Actually when I feel that I have to GET a man to do anything , he's usually already lost my love and affection in the first place, not to mention my respect.
Women probably do this because it works. In fact most of us do what we do because it works and with some men, this technique does work. Again, what other motivators do you suggest a woman use??? Maybe it's not a tool, just maybe women who are not getting what they need out of the relationship? Then when they are getting it and things are going better, they want sex.
There is always more than one way of looking at everything. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:11:36 PM | | even though you sound like you are on the right track---try not geting angry -----look at yourself and ask what it is about this situation that is triggering old paterns and what is it you need to learn from this--- then go an hlod your partner's hands and calmly discuss how you feel--- how you feel is not the other person's responsibility-------attach no judgement to the outcome------- and remember --never fight in the bedroom--never use sex as a weapon and never go to bed angry------Love and Light ---------- and maybe get a bit older-------------- | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 9/13/2007 5:40:06 AM | | Using sex as a tool sends a big message. As the OP said used for rewards or punishments. I find this imature . I understand when a couple is just having a disagreement, bad mood or angry it makes sense at times. I wouldn't want it either with someone that is just not herself and ****y . But why go to bed angry? If you are selfish and hold onto a grudge and can not get to an understanding level between each other, then both are imature in that sistuation. Sex lightens up issues I have find it breaks barriers at times. I feel every one wants reconcilation if they are in a meaningful relantionship. Holding back as in using it as a tool just causes problems in all the other areas. Is it done yes it does happen. To me its just plan stupid. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 9/13/2007 7:35:51 AM | May I be light-heated for a moment? I think the biggest problem men have with this notion is that we don't get to take advantage of it to the same degree. " Honey, in exchange for getting the kids squarred away, the errands run, the house cleaned and the delicious dinner you prepared . . . I'll boink you tonight."
To me, the idea that I'm being offered a reward or being done a favor in the form of sex implies; a) they don't or weren't going to enjoy it anyway, b) I'm not very good at it so, they'll allow themself to put up with it or, c) you should be lucky the allow you in the first place. If you don't want to sleep with me for the sheer enjoyment of it - I'll find someone who does.
What I would understand is - I'd like to go fishing this weekend - before I go - I'll finish painting the room, get the car's oil changed and finsh cleaning the basement and organizing the garage, oh, and I'll make sure the kids get a ride to the early morning activities so you don't have to do it. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 9/13/2007 1:01:42 PM | I thought this thread was about teaching someone who's not good at sex how to do it right...false advertising on the title.
I never withhold sex from someone else because it means I don't have any - that's kinda dumb.
Do I expect sex a certain number of times a week? Absolutely - men have tried the reward punishment thing on me, but due to how easy it is for a woman to find sex elsewhere and my ability to easily move on to where it was available when withheld from me, it didn't have the desired effect, and was never tried by any man more than once. | |
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| Sex as a training tool?
Posted: 9/13/2007 2:10:07 PM | | I hate it when men even suggest that women use sex as a reward/punishment. Women like sex as much as men. And just like men, sometimes you're really really in the mood,and sometimes you're not. And yeah, if you've had a really good day together and you have done something really sweet for your girlfriend, she might feel a bit more like having sex than if you've been a jerk all night or you've had a big fight. But it's not a carrot that we hold out. | |
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