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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/26/2007 7:13:11 PM | I guess I am wondering WHY GOD ordained Greek
God never ordained Greek, he told his words to the people who were transcripting them. They then wrote the scriptures in the best language they could find.
I believe they chose greek because it is so linguistically flexible. The bible is really not just a bunch of stories, its a guide to your life and your faith. Every verse you read in the bible means something different to each person. And you may go back in a couple of years, read again, and find things you missed the last time. The bible is meant to be this way, the language doesnt matter - its the meaning behind the words for you that matters.
But to answer your question, over time, the New Testament was transcribed many times. There were periods where greek was the religious and scientific norm for the day. Coincidentally, this is when most of the transcripts of the New Testment were written. Thats why there are both scripts in Aramic and Greek, different people transcribing the texts in different languages so their people can read them better. | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/26/2007 7:31:33 PM | The oldest extant texts we have are in Greek. Some have argued that there must be earlier texts in Aramaic because it suits their personal theories, yet no earlier examples of such texts exist, thus my question and reference to Occam who admonished us not to multiply entities unnecessarily...
In other words, some individuals, scholarly and otherwise, have a pet theory that since the Gospels "must have" been written by people they believe to have been the immediate followers of this person they believe to be Jesus, then for them it stands to reason that such documents must have been written in Aramaic and later translated to Greek...unfortunately this is a major case of "cart before the horse" and no evidence...as well as contorting what available evidence their is to support a notion rather than forming a hypothesis on the available evidence...
Talk about opening up a big can of "Science-B-Gone" and spraying it on the whole issue..... | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/27/2007 1:25:29 AM | It is my understanding that (most of) the new testament was actually originally written in Hebrew.... just that multiple copies were made into Greek.
(Latin came later).
Yahshua often quoted from the old testament scrolls.... which were in Hebrew.
Even His name could not translate into Greek correctly.
A study of the writings of the Christian "Church Fathers" shows that much of the "New Testament" was written in Hebrew. This includes direct statements made by; Papias, Ireneus, Origin, Eusubius, Epiphaneus, Jerome and Clement of Alexandria.
The prominent first century historian Josephus wrote in both his books, Antiquities and Wars, that Hebrew was the language of first century Jews and that they did not know Greek. (In fact there is a Jewish tradition saying it is better to eat swine than learn Greek.)
Recent Qumran findings (Dead Sea Scrolls) shows secular documents written at that time concerning "current events" (i.e., not just copies of old religious texts.) indicating Hebrew was a "living" language.
Jewish coins found from that era are minted with Hebrew text on them.
Modern linguistics shows that the text themselves don't lend to an "original Greek" translation eg "if your eye be evil" in Matthew 6:19-24 is in fact a Hebrew idiom.
yashanet.com/studies/mat study/mat3b.htm | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/27/2007 6:33:30 AM | Yashualover: I disagree with you regarding the NT being written in Hebrew. I think this fact is beyond dispute.
From time to time the issue of whether or not the name of God and Jesus can be translated into other languages comes up. Some people feel very strongly that it is wrong to translate the Hebrew names into Greek or even English. I am presuming that you adhere to this belief since your screen name is Yashualover.
I believe that it is God's will and intent that His name be translated into many languages because, as it says in Revelation 5:9, "And they sang a new song: 'You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were slain and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and LANGUAGE and people and nation" (NIV).
In Acts 2 the miracle of the languages at Pentecost is stated in verses 5-6, "Now there were staying in Jerusalem god-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in a bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language" (NIV).
What did they hear Peter saying? "Men is Israel, listen to this, Jesus of Nazareth..." (Acts 2:22). Obviously the Holy Spirit translated the name of Jesus in to an appropriate name so that all of those who heard Peter in their native language could understand the meaning of the name of Yashua/Jesus.
Yashua is just the Hebrew name for Joshua. Jesus is the Greek variation of that name.
Of course Jesus often quoted from the Old Testament which was in Hebrew. That doesn't prove that the New Testament was written in Hebrew. The Old Testament was the only Scripture available at the time. For the Jew to say, "It is written" is the equivalent for the evangelical Christian to say, "The Bible says."
Of course Jesus would use Hebrew idioms. He was a Jew living among Jews in Judea. That doesn't prove that Greek was not the written language of the civilization.
Think of it this way: All commercial pilots have to speak English because air traffic control has is conducted in English for the sake of safety. That is because English is the dominant language in the world today. Greek was the dominant language of the culture in Jesus time because of the influence the Greek culture had had on that area for centuries. | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/27/2007 2:18:56 PM | ____________________________________________________________
In fact, Greek was the language of the upper class-Senators, royals, nobles, etc. It was a CRIME-PUNISHABLE BY DEATH-for a non upper class type to study, read, speak, or write in Greek, or to even possess Greek manuscripts..
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As an admirer and student of ancient history I have never heard or read of this. Do you have proof to base this on? | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/27/2007 9:22:45 PM |
A study of the writings of the Christian "Church Fathers" shows that much of the "New Testament" was written in Hebrew. This includes direct statements made by; Papias, Ireneus, Origin, Eusubius, Epiphaneus, Jerome and Clement of Alexandria.
The prominent first century historian Josephus wrote in both his books, Antiquities and Wars, that Hebrew was the language of first century Jews and that they did not know Greek. (In fact there is a Jewish tradition saying it is better to eat swine than learn Greek.)
Recent Qumran findings (Dead Sea Scrolls) shows secular documents written at that time concerning "current events" (i.e., not just copies of old religious texts.) indicating Hebrew was a "living" language.
Jewish coins found from that era are minted with Hebrew text on them.
Yes, those in JUDEA used Hebrew. But the Christianity that spread was a Hellenized version taken up more by the Jews of the diaspora then the ones in Jerusalem itself. These Jews would have lived out amongst the provinces for some time, and many in the east (but outside Judea itself) would have spoken GREEK. It was from these people where the texts of the canonized New Testament derived, therefore they would have written them in Greek.
Just as yourself this question: When writing to the Greek speaking inhabitants of Asia Minor, WHY would the author write in Hebrew??
It would be like me writing a letter to Prime Minister Harper in Swahili. | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/27/2007 11:07:49 PM |
What did they hear Peter saying? "Men is Israel, listen to this, Jesus of Nazareth..." (Acts 2:22). Obviously the Holy Spirit translated the name of Jesus in to an appropriate name so that all of those who heard Peter in their native language could understand the meaning of the name of Yashua/Jesus.
the purity ghost doesn't translate names because that would be totally foreign to the understanding of anyone - No nation of men have ever translated stranger's names - they always transliterate them instead - you aren't a student of translation or you would know this
Yashua is just the Hebrew name for Joshua. Jesus is the Greek variation of that name.
Incorrect - i can show you that Yashua is or no value - it is iaushua. Be glad to give you the evidence.
Think of it this way: All commercial pilots have to speak English because air traffic control has is conducted in English for the sake of safety. That is because English is the dominant language in the world today. Greek was the dominant language of the culture in Jesus time because of the influence the Greek culture had had on that area for centuries.
No air traffic controller can exist who isn't educated in the letter - your comparison is entirely impertinent. | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/27/2007 11:11:53 PM |
Greek speaking inhabitants of Asia Minor
why do you think all the books were addressed to Asia Minor - most were addressed to the saints in general. And I believe i remember, although i'm rusty and will have to brush up on this one, that it is arguable whether Asia Minor was greek speaking. | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/28/2007 12:16:11 AM |
why do you think all the books were addressed to Asia Minor - most were addressed to the saints in general. And I believe i remember, although i'm rusty and will have to brush up on this one, that it is arguable whether Asia Minor was greek speaking.
I am not implying that all the books were directed to Asia Minor. It was to show my point, that the books were not written for the Jews in Judea, they were written for the Greek speaking populations of the Diaspora Jews that Christianity flourished in. This was one of the big factors in the hellenization of christianity.
The most common language in those regions WAS Greek and had been themselves hellenized for centuries. | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 9/28/2007 1:14:31 AM | I have more than a few doubts that any but the priestly caste in the 1st century could read and write in Hebrew. The lingua franca was Aramaic as I understand it for those in the immediate vicinity of Jerusalem.
That however is beside the point.
The earliest written copies of the Gospels are in Greek no matter the idiom of the language they may be theorized to be in.
Again, Occam's Razor is SCREAMING out here. Do not multiply entities.
I know you desperately need to in order to justify your belief system...but for those of us who do not cling to it like a treasured security blanket, to have a first document in Greek makes perfect sense, Hebraic expressions adapted or not... even if the first worshippers or cult was Hebrew. The belief system that comes after and is Christian is most certainly NOT Hebrew and there is no denying it. The idea of a sacrificed God-man is the anathema of everything Judaistic.
You can deny it all you like but anyone who knows anything about the Jewish interpretation of their faith knows this is the reverse of their belief system. Plain and simple this is a pagan belief grafted onto Jewish belief - it is no stretch then to believe Greek writers adapting Jewish ideas onto a Greek mystery cult. | |
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| Greek --- why was it the language for the N.T.
Posted: 10/6/2007 11:09:18 AM | After the death of Alexander the Great, the situation changed in the vast empire into a new reality. Ptolemy II, Philadelphos (308-246 BC) the Pharaoh (king) of Egypt realized that the physical unification of the Greeks and the almost limitless expansion of the Empire required the standardization of the already widely used common language or Koinē. Greek was already the lingua franca of the vast Hellenistic world in all four kingdoms of the Diadochi (Alexander's Successors). It was already spoken, but neither an official alphabet nor grammar had yet been devised.
Alexandria, Egypt was already the Cultural Center of the Empire in about 280 BC. Ptolemy II assigned Aristeas, an Athenian scholar, to create the grammar of the new language, one that not only all Greeks, but all inhabitants of the Empire would be able to speak. Thus, Aristeas used the Attic dialect as basis for the new language.
Aristeas and the scholars who were assisting him trimmed the language a little, eliminated the Attic idiosyncrasies and added words as well as grammatical and syntactical rules mainly from the Doric, Ionic, and Aeolic dialects.
The Spartan Doric, however, was excluded from it . So, they standardized THE Hellenic language, called Koine or Common.
The language was far from perfect. Non-Greeks encountered difficulties reading it since there was no way to separate words, sentences and paragraphs. In addition, they were unable to express their feelings and the right intonation. During that time, Greek was a melodic language, even more melodic than Italian is today.
The system of paragraphs, sentences, and some symbols like ~. ;`'! , were the result of continuous improvement and enhancement of the language with the contribution of many Greek scholars from all over the World.
There were a few alphabets employed by various Hellenic cities or states, and these alphabets included letters specific to the sounds of their particular dialect. There were two main categories, the Eastern and the Western alphabets. The first official alphabet omitted all letters not in use any longer ( sampi, qoppa, digamma also known as stigma in Greek numbering) and it presented a 24-letter alphabet for the new Koinē language. However, the inclusion and use of small letters took place over a period of many centuries after the standardization of Koinē.
After the new language was completed with its symbols, the Jews of Egypt felt that it was an opportunity for them to translate their sacred books into Greek since it was the language that the Jews of Diaspora spoke.
So on the island of Pharos, by Alexandria's seaport, 72 Jewish rabbis were secluded and isolated as they translated their sacred books (Torah, Nevi’im, Ketuvim, etc.) from Aramaic and Hebrew to the Koinē Greek, the newly created language. This is known as the Septuagint translation. The Koinē evolved and in about two to three centuries it became the language that Biblical scholars call Biblical Greek. In fact, only those who have studied the Attic dialect can understand the difference between the Septuagint Greek and the Greek of the New Testament.
Although the Koinē was officially in use, common folk in general continued to speak their own dialect and here and there one can sense the insertion of elements of the Attic dialect in various documents such as the New Testament. The Gospel according to St. John and the Revelation are written in perfect Attic.
The other three Synoptic Gospels were written in Koinē with the insertion of some Semitic grammatical concepts (i.e. the Hebrew genitive) and invented words (i.e. epiousios). | |
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