Jemue
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Joined: 1/26/2005
Msg: 101 | |
| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 11:30:51 AM | It was just nice to see that the majority of adults (most importantly the ones that have experienced a bit more) don't feel a woman should comply to some out of date judgments/taboos. I especially appreciated some of the men's views that acknowledged that to act according to "imagined societal dictates" would be the highest form of low self esteem.
I don't think anyone should, regardless of gender.
As for social dictates, any decision that is made that doesn’t come from within, that is made from external manipulative forces needs a very large magnifying glass to review it.
Personally I take all the information on board from a situation, think about it, then act how I feel is right, not how I’m told, or how I (wrongly or not) “believe” I should act. Then at a later date I can hold my head up and admit to my actions and defend them as I made them knowing it was the right thing at the time.
Any one who makes a personal decision based on others is hiding from the responsibility of the result, or attempting to please others before being self affirmed it is what they want. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 11:33:33 AM | | ISandusky - I think your point is very reasonable. Who wants someone throwing themselves at you when you are not so into it.. I think any man or woman would say the same thing. It's a turn off. A challenge is always exciting. I think the thought was if both the guy has sex w/a woman what makes him afterward say - oh hey she had sex w/me she's not in my league...she's got to be givin it to everyone...I'll tell the guys she's an easy whore.. it seems odd to me that the guy will have the sex, but yet judge her as being less desirable.Seems incongruent. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 11:48:58 AM | Dolly, I won't give a knee jerk right/wrong answer here regarding how society views this behaviour in either men or women. Each to their own. Ultimately, the answer for you depends on what you are looking for and where you are in your life/maturity.
IMHO I would say yes, it's a bad move IF what you are looking for is a meaningful, longterm relationship with another based on trust and respect. It can't be denied that it is risky behaviour for a host of reasons. It indicates a lack of control in both parties. It's a strong indicator of an impulsive and possibly reckless personality that gives little consideration to the consequences of actions. These are things I don't allow in myself, and am not looking for in a partner.
On the other hand, IF you're just looking to scratch the mutual itch, you don't need anyone's affirmation for that and why care how 'society' might view it? | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 11:53:39 AM | | "Slut isn’t a compliment for a guy, we just don’t care on average I find." At first, I really laughed when I heard this because it was so raw and true and showed so honestly the man's lifestyle. I think it would be so nice to be a guy... I do make my decisions according to my own processing, but it would be so nice not to "hear" other peoples crass opinions which come out of left field. It's true that women are on me more than men for being promiscuous and any guy that's been around me says I am NOT easy. I am definitely marriage material. I don't get played at all. (well, i don't think it counts if I'm with a player on purpose or i cater to a guy just cause i want to.) Just because I don't like limitations created for me doesn't mean that I don't have limitations that I have created. Often, my standards are much higher than those of my critics. | |
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Jemue
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Joined: 1/26/2005
Msg: 106 | |
| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 12:17:43 PM |
I think it would be so nice to be a guy...
Just be happy who you are regardless of gender and do your best to ignore critics, feel sorry for people who always choose the negative path, or feel their "influenced biased opinion" is better than your personal reasoned choice, though respect them for being different or you'll be no better than they are.
I don't think its about being nice to be a guy, I think its nice to care less what people think about you opposed to what you think about yourself ...... Though I'd say guys on average think more about their own choices and stop there, opposed to worrying about what others think (even if they are aware of it or not).
I try to respect others choices and views, and understand them (and why they make them), though I don't put them before my own when making choices. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 12:20:53 PM |
As far as easy, uhhh my ex husband as well as any guy that thought we were dating - would definitely disagree.
Judy, been enjoying your posts and completely respect you so don't take this badly, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here.
The statement above seems to me the opposite of what is being discussed. We're talking about women giving it up too easy and being branded badly for it. The comment above is the opposite; withholding sex, even at the expense of your own pleasure, so as not to be branded a slut. Instead you may be branded a prude.
What I'm trying to say is that as much as I disagree with a sexually active woman being branded a 'slut', I disagree just as much with a woman being branded a 'prude'.
By the same token, a woman having sex on the first date to 'snag' a guy is just as bad in my opinion as the woman who plays 'virgin' to snag a guy. They are both uses of sex as a tool to get what you want, and either way it is wrong.
And avoiding sex to please society's standards and avoid being branded a 'slut' is just as bad as actually being a 'slut'. In my opinion.
Enjoy yourself physically as you see fit, to hell with convention and labels.
Clone | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 12:29:49 PM | Are you kidding me, why didn't someone TELL me we were still in the dark ages, I would quit showering and brought my cudgel. (yeesh)
OP, take it for what it's worth, but I'm pretty sure it's okay to have free-will nowadays. Personally I don't really do the whole random date thing, if I'm out with a lady there's a pretty good chance I'm both interested and attracted to her. One of the biggest deal breakers going is how well you connect betwixt the sheets, so if you think it's going to be good then why not go for it? Better than finding you'd rather be lighting your own a** on fire, after investing a lot of time and effort.
A girl sleeping with me isn't going to make me think any worse of her, but it could sure help her cause if she rocks my world. Not likely to sleep with her if I don't want to spend more time with her, too tough to disengage afterwards.
You DO want to watch out for the knuckle-walkers though, the ones that will do or say anything to tear off a piece. Usually it's a self-esteem issue for them, they figure that anyone dumb enough to give it up to them easily is even lower on the evolutionary ladder than they are. But are those really the issues you'd want to deal with down the road anyways?
So go for it, enjoy yourself,it's not like they own you afterwards. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 1:09:24 PM | | You sound pretty bitter to me.You twisted everything I said to fit your world view that men are dishonest users.Hope that attitude works for you.Can't say you'll ever find what you want with that attitude. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 2:31:25 PM | | It is apparent that everyone on here has a different opinion! In my opinion, I think it is. If a person is looking for a long term relationship yes. Just like daydreembeliever said, why buy the cow, if the milk is free! I don't call it being part of the 50's, I call it self respect. I want the guy to respect me and want to get to know me first. I believe there is a big difference between love and lust! | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 4:51:48 PM | | clone alone - dont worry about saying anything - i'm fine. i'm a bit tired right now and don't want to reread all the threads. i think that quote is a partial response to the thought that i was an easy mark for guys because of my views. That's all. My response was to show that it is untrue that my views make me an easy mark and a slut in the eyes of the men that have known me. It seems to be the women that have a problem with it. That's all. I don't withhold to gain a position and I don't give to gain a position. To me, that would be a whore and I just am not for sale, lease or rent. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 5:14:23 PM | It's a fact that men respect and desire a woman who has enough self confidence to make a man work to win her over.Men think "Why buy the cow when I'm getting the milk for free?"If a woman gives it away to easily no man will EVER respect her.He'll just use her .
Daydreembeliever - I assume you were referring to my being bitter b/c I don't appreciate women sexuality being analogized by childhood chants (cows and milk? wasn't there a movie with a woman calling women old cows - someone help me here - the Judd girl - that makes about as much sense to me as your teen child jingle). Furthermore, I don't believe a woman is USED when she has sex - unless she is sexually assaulted. Just because I don't see myself as a cow giving away free milk and being discarded, doesn't mean I am bitter. It means I think differently than you do...and guess what...so do alot of others. I am not going to stoop to the level of insulting you personally just because I don't agree with your view. You are free to go off on a tangent calling me names, that is what freedom is about. And to accomodate your views with a childhood chant, "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me" Na Na Na Na Noo Noo | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 5:20:05 PM | I suppose whether or not it is a bad move really depends on what each of you are looking for. Taking myself as an example, you'd put me off - the message I would get is that you were looking for sex as opposed to a relationship, and although that doesn't make you a bad person, it would rule you out as far as I am concerned...
Sex is something that should simply happen when both partners are ready for it, and not be engineered or contrived. No doubt some couples do genuinely reach that point at their first meeting - but it's never happened to me, and I'd be surprised if it did.
Martin. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 5:29:32 PM | | I believe these threads are for everyone to voice their own opinions on one thing or another. I chose this, because I wanted to put my hat in the ring as saying that I personally would feel like a whore/slut/loose/easy (pick your favorite) or perceived as one by giving into sex on a first date. My first post wasn't meant to ATTACK anyone at all and I truly apologize if I have offended you Dolly or any other woman here. I totally agree that there is a double standard with the fact that women would be perceived as loose if she has sex on the first date and men are not perceived as anything other than taking care of business. It is not fair. I believe there is much more to a relationship than JUST sex. But without a relationship or some sort of committment, sex is just that....sex. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 5:55:18 PM | Not to sound offensive...but for those that have forgotten the thread that Dolly started - IT IS:
Honest answers please? It wasn't something I thought about much before, I mean, 2 consenting adults, why not? Oh and I don't believe it's any different if you're female or male. The idea that it's 'ok for men' is fine with me as long as it works both ways! Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I always have sex after a first date. Anyway, half of me thinks... if a guy really didn't respect me because we had sex on a first date then I would happily never see him again but part of me does care how I'm perceived so your thoughts please?
Again, not to be offensive, but if you are going to draw a conclusion about a person and make a comment about the type of person you THINK they are, please bother to read all the threads with an open mind...Some people seem genuine but are drawing conclusions that do not fit the fact pattern. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 6:24:42 PM | The intial poster asked why there is a double standard in respect of first date sex. That is an interesting question. There clearly is such a double standard. It seems that generally, society (whatever that is) views a woman having sex on the first date as a bad thing. My personal view is that the rigid application of "rules" is a poor approach. We need to be more dynamic in the way we look at the particular circumstances. If you find a person that really connects with you then why not explore your sexuality together - even on a first date? The experience may be worth the risk - particularly if it results in a satisfying long term connection between the couple.
I think that society views a woman having sex on a first date as a bad thing because women have a lot more to lose as a result of a sexual encounter if things go badly. STD's aside (both men and women are subject to those and we can remove them as a factor) the additional risk to a woman is a pregancy. Obviously, men have no such equivilent risk like preganancy.
In "society's" view the stakes are much higher for a woman should she get pregnant - her body will change, she will have to interrupt her life to deal with the pregnancy, either by way of an abortion, or by having the child. Of course, having the child will fundamentally alter her life forever (as will a poorly executed abortion). Objectively, the stakes for a woman are really quite high. It might be the case that society views such a woman as reckless and therefore subjects women generally, to a double standard.
Thoughts? | |
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Jemue
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Joined: 1/26/2005
Msg: 117 | |
| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 8:08:52 PM |
It's a fact that men respect and desire a woman who has enough self confidence to make a man work to win her over.Men think "Why buy the cow when I'm getting the milk for free?"If a woman gives it away to easily no man will EVER respect her.He'll just use her .
That is completely wrong.Have you asked every single man on the planet ? No. Same as the old line "All men like to chase, none like a woman to make the first move" that's complete tosh as well, a line to hide behind, an excuse.
Any time you try and label opinion as fact, or start using the words, all / never / always / etc. you know your wrong as your attempting to generalise.
I respect a women who has the strength to make her own choices and stand by them, as soon as she starts thinking about what others will think of her or playing games (that involves milk and cows for excuses or reasoning, which is based on a falsity), then I loose respect for her, using sex as a weapon opposed following her own beliefs. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 8:22:32 PM |
Men think "Why buy the cow when I'm getting the milk for free?"If a woman gives it away to easily no man will EVER respect her.He'll just use her .
I'm really surprised judyluvsvegas, I expected better from you given your other posts.
There is no possible way for you to know what every man thinks about this situation. I have never thought that about a woman, whether we were in a committed relationship or just having casual sex.
Clone <--stepping back up out of the gutter | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 8:30:51 PM | JDC,
Well thought out, nicely worded post!
Now, I'll respectfully disagree.
the additional risk to a woman is a pregancy
Abortion aside. . . these days it is easy to prove paternity. And it is almost as easy to then hold that man responsible for most of the rest of his life. If that isn't an interruption to your life, and a life changing event for the man as well as the woman, I don't know what is. And if the guy doesn't take responsibility, well then he probably wasn't really even good enough to be a sperm donor to begin with. They are both taking a huge, potentially life changing risk having sex.
I know, the physical part of the pregnancy. . . . Well I'm not quoting statistics or anything like that but, other than movies I can't remember the last time I heard of a woman dying during childbirth. (This is where I get a bizallion posts about how it still happens). I'm sure it does, and I'm not trying to negate that. I'm basically just saying the physical risk of pregnancy isn't what it used to be.
Let the beating begin.
Clone | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/22/2007 9:04:04 PM | Hi clonealone:
I agree that our legal system (Canada) may hold the biological father financially responsible. However, this isn't always the case. Our legal system isn't perfect. Far from it. In any event, the woman requires sufficient resources to engage the legal system to enforce that particular legal obligation that the legislatures, in Canada, have placed on the biological father. However, in my view writing a cheque is far less burdensome, and less of a disruption (if at all) to ones life than the physical and emotional effects of an unplanned and perhaps, unwanted pregnancy. The pregnancy will impact a woman's work life, social life and be an increased financial responsibility (usually at a time when their work lives will suffer a disruption to care for the child). I think that "society's" view is that first date sex may be reckless and generally, "society" frowns on reckless behaviour. Particularly, when the person acting recklessly may harm more than just themselves. Therefore, there exists a double standard.
All of that said, I personally don't see a problem with sex on a first date although it sure isn't expected. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/23/2007 3:28:31 AM | | Clone - it was my attempt at a cut and paste. I thought there were " around it - I just started on these forums and don't know how to put the quote in a box like you do...Wanna redact/retract your personal statement now... | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/23/2007 3:48:29 AM | | it realy depends on the couple sex is not planed it happends on its own its part of life to exspess the feelings for each other some rather wait for a while some dont its who we are | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/23/2007 7:09:23 AM | Thanks Judy for reminding some new poster's (and some of the previous ones) what the original thread was... Just like to add to that. My original thread (groan at saying it again) was posted as a question out of CURIOSITY ONLY. Thus, my intention was NOT FOR PEOPLE TO ANALYZE ME. THE QUESTION PERTAINS TO 'SEX ON A FIRST DATE' IN GENERAL, NOT ME AS A SUBJECT!.
So please stop theorising about what I may or may not do. Moreover, STOP WITH THE ADVICE AND THE LECTURES. I'm almost 40 years old, am a full time nurse who gives sexual health advice and std checks on a regular basis and 'yes' of course I follow my own advice. MOST IMPORTANTLY, QUIT MORALISING ABOUT ME! I have absolutely no intention of changing my stance on this, I know what I am and I like myself!! I am interested in hearing what other people think about this or would never have posted the question. I however, do not feel it necessary, nor right, to try and manipulate others into my way of thinking. Is it not possible for more of you to simply state your views in general without harping on and on about what I should be doing and accept that your views are not universal?? I suspect not and fear we will be back to same'o same'o bogstandard posting within the hour blah blah blah! | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/23/2007 8:25:13 AM | | Well, some people think that sex helps you really get intimate to know if you want to pursue something more with someone. I am not sure. Many men do think if a woman sleeps with him quickly, then there isn't much of a challenge, but it was fun. I am not sure how I feel about that. I would rather get to know her a bit more before that. A lot of times it's just wild passion. You don't really know why the guy is sleeping with you. Are you looking for a relationship? It all depends. Some guys care, some guys don't. | |
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| Sex on a first date? Is it a bad move?
Posted: 3/23/2007 8:34:10 AM | Dolly :)
The question does open a pandoras box. If I were looking to get laid the answer would be a resounding yes, good move. Nothing like it. Instant aproval etc etc. Since I am old fashioned about such things in my nether regions I have always declined one night stands but I suspect there may be a gal out there that I would click so well with I'd know we could be a family and nail her after a few hours of really really listening to each other. Rather doubt it though. | |
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