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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/5/2008 2:14:04 PM | Hypocrisy! If you don't like WalMart...then DON'T SHOP THERE. If you wanna do something about it...then get your duff off the computer and do something that will actually have an effect to the cause...cause posting about it on Plentyoffish is doing NADA
I disagree that it is doing "NADA," seeing as this thread is alive and well and as you pointed out 11 pages long. I chimed in my 2cents back on page 7 or 8, I think, stating that I don't shop at Wal-Mart and then the rest of my posts have basically been in defense of my position.
As for the hypocrisy, I don't know exactly what you are talking about. If I talk it, I walk it. Not only do I actively work at bringing Wal-Mart and the likes to task for its "bad employer/neighbor" practices, I do not patronize businesses that practice unfair business tactics - be it gas stations, food chains or big box corporations that care only about making a profit. (As for your boyfriend trying to "stick it to the man," that is just more of the same tactics that continues to degrade the concept of capitalism.)
I doubt that any of these millionaire businesses miss my small change but I go to sleep at night with the knowledge that my small change is not falling into the hands of the likes of Wal-Mart and I sleep purrdy darn good, thank you very much.
I agree that the quality of clothes and shoes at Wal-Mart are pathetic but everytime you opt to buy your "indespensibles" at Wal-Mart because the price is cheaper, you are one more little cut in a big tear in our local communities. I make less than 30K and I support two people on that income. I choose to pay higher prices for items that come from directly from the manufactor/producer and the extra I spend is worth it to be able to be part of the solution and not just blindly looking for the cheapest price. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/5/2008 3:03:45 PM | Neaptide...
11 pages of postings strictly means that people like to come and add their two cents. If in this 11 pages, someone said, "Wow...I used to shop there, but now I won't" then you can consider something effective occurred from the post! However, I stopped reading at 4 pages, and did not see such!
"Hypocrisy" was said in reference to my examples of my daughters boyfriend...not you, or the OP. :) | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/5/2008 5:32:42 PM | Hey, Harley - I get what you were saying now, sorry if I frilled a little.
I agree that the majority of the posts here are either pro or con so it may seem pointless to continue but I am hoping that there is a silent portion of readers that are absorbing what is being said and maybe reassessing their views or formulating one where they had no opinion before this thread was started. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/5/2008 5:43:33 PM | Hey...'tis all good! :)
Unfortunately, there ARE people who MUST shop at WalMart! I don't care if someone posted that it really is not a matter of "survival!" WalMart carries a lot of generic and their brand items...which is a HUGE difference in the bottom double lines for someone on a limited or fixed income!
Also...to me...it is not that I am "pro" or "con" WalMart...it is just that I cannot stand to see someone spouting about CHANGE when they are doing little about it! At least the OP is doing SOMETHING, by not shopping there!
"Buy American" is such a....fad...if you ask me! It's a great theory, but even your American made cars have foreign made parts! | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 1:00:51 AM |
I think Pisces' point was that we're also "subsidizing" the health care (non) plans of McDonalds, Wendy's, Arbys, KFC, Taco Bell, Batteries R Us, Toys R Us, K-mart, Gas n Go, etc etc on and on....IOW, every other employer out there who doesn't have health insurance, so why pick on just Wal Mart? Are you also boycotting all restaurants and gas stations, for example?
Word. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 6:44:09 AM | One of the northeastern states handled the health care issue well by requiring Wal-Mart to pay for the public healthcare its employees needed if it continued to choose not to provide healthcare to employees that were essentially full time.
As far as the shopping goes, there are people that find Wal-Mart economically speaking a Godsend. As K-Mart has gone out of business and Target become upscale to the point that the good buys there are few and far between, many people depend on Wal-Mart for stretching their dollars further, particularly in an economy that is lowering the standard of living for even those getting cost of living increases because they are not keeping pace with inflation.
The answer is not really boycotting because it does not create a focus for what people want changed. Yup, they want the big pockets to treat employees better, to stop hiring illegal aliens to clean the stores, to stop locking employees in at night to prevent theft, to stop using sweatshops in third world countries to produce its goods but NOT doing those things alone doesn't solve problems either. Forcing sweatshops to improve conditions is preferable to shutting them down. Forcing companies to provide legal working conditions for illegal immigrants is perferable to those folks returning to countries that are poor as dirt.... | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 7:37:13 AM | good grief does it really take 12 pages to say that if you think that "Wally-Mart SUX"
then don't shop there,....no one's holding a gun on anyone yet,.... | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:11:56 AM | Well Marita... Tell me, now...
Are we to supposed to think it your opinion, that at least some of us shouldn't take advantage of the opportunity afforded us in this forum to discuss it? 
So, that we will be as nonchalant and uninformed about subject matter relevant to the cause and effect of our current economic plight as you appear to be???
That's the best suggestion I've heard yet!
C'mon everyone, quickly...! Let's go bury our heads in the sand!!!
-damoN- | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:26:37 AM | Cheers to that NE state that is MAKING Wal-Mart take care of its employees - how shameful that Wal-Mart has been forced to do what all good employers do. Package, Thanks for the update!
As K-Mart has gone out of business and Target become upscale to the point that the good buys there are few and far between.
This is how stores deal with the impacts from Wal-Mart. They either shut down or they go upscale. If you take anything away from this discussion, you should be able to connect the dots and see that by patronizing Wal-Mart, you are allowing this to happen.
There are people that HAVE to shop at Wal-Mart, god bless their souls, just like there are people that HAVE to work at Wal-Mart - at least for a short period of time in their lives. The rest of us should have the common sense to understand that when all we look for is the absolute cheapest price, there is an equal and opposite effect of that action.
Pieces, I do walk my talk, so to speak - ie, I don't patronize businesses that engage in unfair labor practices and/or environmental damage and I know that I am not alone. Many of us have forgone a "good deal," in order to do the right thing. I make less than 30k and support two people on that income. I still manage to NOT shop at Wal-Mart and feed my family. I patronize a lot of local businesses and farmers. I pay a little more for those items, but I sleep really good at night knowing that my small potatoes have gone to keeping local businesses up and running.
Right now, Wal-Mart is the biggest, richest corporation engaging in these bad neighbor practices - that is why it is getting all this attention.
As for those of you who think this thread is a waste of time, why don't you practice what you preach - if you don't like this thread, don't read it! Problem solved, right? | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:41:43 AM | Eh...I like Wal Mart.
Hypothetically speaking now, but suppose one day you people manage to make Wal-Mart crumble. The millions in their employ and their families lose wages, health care etc. What happens next? Mom & Pop stores magically open and employ those out of work? Just playing devil's advocate here, but...what happens next? | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:42:46 AM | Well I love Wal-Mart, and a free market economy. Every company has the legitimate right to get their goods and services from the lowest cost providers.
I suggest you start buying from the local little business that has the highest markups to preserve your moral integrity!
The Eagle | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:52:35 AM | The millions in their employ and their families lose wages, health care etc. What happens next? Mom & Pop stores magically open and employ those out of work?
They don't have health care now and they barely make a living wage as it is. The mom and pop stores won't be there because Wal-Mart has SHUT THEM DOWN. That is the one of the points I am trying to make. Wal-Mart is a self-fulfilling nightmare for us the consumers. Because we looked for the absolute cheapest price, we will have shot ourselves in the foot and we will HAVE to continue to support Wal-Mart because it has done in all the other little fish in the pond. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:55:15 AM |
I suggest you start buying from the local little business that has the highest markups to preserve your moral integrity!
I do, I do - please read my posts! I make less than 30k and I patronize local farmers and local businesses. It costs a little more but I understand that I am part of a system, not the end result. My moral integrity is just fine as is the many others who get the big picture - yours is looking a little dusty, my friend. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 8:55:22 AM | ^^You did not answer my question. What happens if Wal-Mart closes down?
They do have healthcare, they do earn wages.
Where will they go? Will you help support them & their families? | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:06:07 AM | Have you looked at the posts? Wal-Mart employees are dependent on medicare and the local food banks and public health because they cannot survive on what Wal-Mart pays.
Let's take this really slow - Wal-Mart comes a long and because it is larger and has more clout, it can get a better deal from the wholesalers than smaller mom and pop businesses (ie - they buy in bulk and so they get a discount). Wal-Mart then hires people who are out of work and desperate for a job - because these people are desperate, they will accept wages that are lower than the competitive wages and they will put up with Wal-Mart's tactics at getting around health care (for example, working employees up to 29.5 hours so that they don't have to claim them as full time employees and therefore give them full benefits). But Wal-Mart has these AMAZING cheap prices so we the consumers flock to the store and give it our money. Now, the other little businesses start to close so where do these employees go? Well, Wal-Mart is hiring and even though their wages are lower, people need to eat right? So, they get on the Wal-Mart train.
If Wal-Mart was to go out of business immediately, it would have a tremendous impact on our local enonomics, I get that. My point is that by patronizing them, we have set this dangerous inequitable effect in motion. Hungry cities looking for the tax revenue, out of work employees looking for a job, consumers looking for a "good deal" - we are all to blame and the only way to fix it, IMO, is to increase patronage of the local businesses and try to bolster them through this period so when and if Wal-Mart fails, there will be other businesses still around. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:08:02 AM | I think Pisces' point was that we're also "subsidizing" the health care (non) plans of McDonalds, Wendy's, Arbys, KFC, Taco Bell, Batteries R Us, Toys R Us, K-mart, Gas n Go, etc etc on and on....IOW, every other employer out there who doesn't have health insurance, so why pick on just Wal Mart? Are you also boycotting all restaurants and gas stations, for example?
Health care is a nation wide problem we all know that. This thread is about Wall Mart that is why we are talking about it. I am sure Wall Mart could come up with some health care plan for its employees even if it only pays some of the costs. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:16:54 AM | Yes, there will be "other" businesses around, BUT will there be jobs available? If there were those "other" jobs and people hated Wal-Mart so much or the healthcare was so bad or the wages were so bad would they not already be working there???
THAT is the big picture.
And frankly no. I care not to read 12 pages of ramblings on. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:55:30 AM | Wal-Mart does not fart around building stores where there is no current or projected growth. They target expanding markets, otherwise, it'd be a business plan doomed from the beginning. Recovery after Wal-Mart may take time, but communities will restructure themselves in the absence of the retail giant's parasitic effect. Unfortunately, Wal-Mart is probably now too big to die on it's own. It's too bad that leaches are able to let go until they need their next feed- so they won't suck up so much that they burst.
Wal-Mart is a huge corporation and has the resources to compensate it's employees with fair wages and adequate benefits programs. They should be doing these things but sadly, they are not. They set a poor example of greed in the business community at large, and economically pillage communities for their own singular profit. They do not reciprocate to the regions they gain from, and sell a sweetly packaged pile of BS in their efforts to achieve a monopoly, which is essentially an unfair trade practice. Their endeavors to attain this goal skirt the law and exploit every loophole, and is the mechanism they have engineered as the means to their end. It is unconscionable and while it's the American way, their version of it rings unpatriotic.
Many good points have been made here, and the selfish and ignorant ones of you who decry this post should shut up, sit back, and allow others participating in the thread to have an opportunity to understand this scenario via the discussions taking place. Knowledge is power.
THAT would be a patriotic and American act on your parts.
-damoN- | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:04:27 AM |
I think Pisces' point was that we're also "subsidizing" the health care (non) plans of McDonalds, Wendy's, Arbys, KFC, Taco Bell, Batteries R Us, Toys R Us, K-mart, Gas n Go, etc etc on and on....IOW, every other employer out there who doesn't have health insurance, so why pick on just Wal Mart? Are you also boycotting all restaurants and gas stations, for example?
I understand what Pisces is saying - it is not okay for the taxpayers to "subsidize" health care for people who are working and the employer does not give them adequate health care. For the record, I don't know that ALL restaurants and ALL gas stations do not provide for their employees - do you or Pisces know this for a fact? Wal-Mart is way bigger and richer than any of the other businesses cited above, that is why it is so much more offensive for them not to treat their employees better. I think a lot of these general merchandise stores - toys-r-us and k-mart for example - are in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings - that is a direct result of Wal-Mart's impacts.
For me, it is not just about the employees. Wal-Mart has a blatent disregard for the environment, for the local infrastructure and for its employees and yet we lap up their "great deals" because we want to save some money. Ever heard the expression, "penny-wise, pound-foolish?" It applies here. Wal-Mart does not operate in a vacuum, you are not the end result of capitalism. It is a cycle and when it is messed with enough, it will break down. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:11:20 AM | Internetdatingpariah, let me ask you a question:
What will you do when Wal-Mart is the only general merchandise store around that caters to the middle class and lower? Better yet, what do you think Wal-Mart will do? Do you think they will continue to offer such great deals when they no longer have to worry about the competition? No, that doesn't make good Wal-Mart sense - they will raise the prices and they will have no competition to stop them. It amazes me that people want to just look at the immediate short term results of how they spend their hard earned dollars instead of what it will provide for the future generations.
Wal-Mart is making money on the misfortune of the poor who cannot get the better jobs and/or cannot afford to shop elsewhere - that right there is enough to turn me on the store. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:26:24 AM | "Wal-Mart is making money on the misfortune of the poor who cannot get the better jobs "
Bingo...So what do YOU suggest those people do??? If they cannot get the better jobs where do YOU suggest they go? Those mythical "other" lower paying jobs with no health coverage?
I can now see hatred for Wal-Mart has done away with any open mind on how to address the massive increase in umemployment if Wal-Mart went belly up. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:29:33 AM |
Well Marita... Tell me, now...
Are we to supposed to think it your opinion, that at least some of us shouldn't take advantage of the opportunity afforded us in this forum to discuss it?
So, that we will be as nonchalant and uninformed about subject matter relevant to the cause and effect of our current economic plight as you appear to be???
That's the best suggestion I've heard yet!
C'mon everyone, quickly...! Let's go bury our heads in the sand!!!
-damoN-
Well ultimately you can discuss it 'till the cows come home but what are your choices?,.....
You can boycott the store and shop somewhere else,...
and if you work for them you can in countries where there are agencies set up to protect worker's,....report them if they break the laws regarding employees,...
Canada and the USA,...for example have such agencies,....Mexico I believe doesn't,...
Chances are if you report walmart for breaking any rule you will loose your job there,...but that's the chance you take
Another choice you have is not working for the company,...but that's where your power to do anything about the company leaves off,.... | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:32:35 AM | I see you don't have an answer to my question.
I am down with the poor folks, internet - so don't think I don't feel their pain or understand the dire situation they are in - I just am uppity and speak my mind where the majority of us are just too damn tired to try and change things. I suggest that every poor soul that works at Wal-Mart walk off the job. It really won't impact the health care system or the food banks because those folks are already there to begin with. I also suggest that anyone with an ounce of compassion not shop at Wal-Mart until they clean up their act.
Let me know when you have an answer to my question... I'm waiting.... | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 299 | |
| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:34:49 AM | | Personally I never have shopped and won't shop at Wal-Mart, low prices or not. I don't like their internal anti-union tendencies , for one thing. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:38:03 AM | | I also resent how it always comes back to the employees: "You are being victimized, why don't you do something" Well, please stop victimizing me. If a company has the means to pay decent wages and provide adequate heathcare - as Wal-Mart does - then why the hell don't they do it? Maybe we should just treat those unemployed and marginally employed folks like the livestock they are? If they've outlived their productivity and/or are sick and need expensive medical treatment, let's just shoot them and put them out of their misery. Problem solved! | |
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