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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:56:29 AM | Walmart isn't the only conglomerate that behaves this way though,...so why single this company out,....there are any number of other's,.....MacDonalds for instance,...
I think it's the attitude of companies that needs changing,...how many other's rather hire 2 part timers instead of one full time employee so they don't need to shell out money for benefits? Try most retail outlets do this as a mater of policy,....and we let them,...
It's the employee protection agencies that also have to do better because how often do they let infraction slide,...trust me,...it's a lot,....
And the way employers (many more than just Walmart) treat their staff,....they know that they can replace you in a heartbeat and many tell you regularly,...that's what needs changing,....
That's what we should be discussing how do we change this general attitude of employers in general,...we can't boycott them all,..there's far too many of them,....b ut that's just my opinion,.... | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:23:54 AM | Marita - you are right, it is not just Wal-Mart but Wal-Mart is the wealthiest one and it is the one who is setting the example for the others. There is no magic pill to fix this situation - it takes EVERYONE - goverment officials, employees, consumers and corporations - to make the system fair and equitable.
If you patronize a store that engages in poor employee practices and/or poor evironmental mangement practices and cripples the competition who does engage in these good stewardship practices, then you are giving tacit approval of that behavior - and even though you think its a good thing because you have saved some money, in the long run it is a bad thing. Our shopping habits have rippling effects, whether or not we recognize it.
It's no different that the municipalities that turn a blind eye to these deplorable practices just because they want the tax revenues.
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:59:55 AM | The problem is that the multitude of people that work in these places working for minimum wage or less if they can get students,...haven't got enough money to shop elsewhere,...
It's a vicious circle,....that's the problem,....
We're not talking about those that have a bank account that gives them the choice but all the rest of us that have no choice,....and there are a lot of us,.... | |
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Posted: 8/6/2008 12:26:26 PM | It's a vicious circle,....that's the problem,....
You nailed it on the head, Marita - it is a vicious cycle. It takes effort to stop it. I do not make a lot of money. I have the weight of a household on my single income. I do understand. I am just saying I do everything in my power not to feed that cycle. I purchase my food and sundry items from local farmers and businesses that do engage in the type of good neighbor practices that I believe in. To just give in and say you have no choice is exactly what corporations like Wal-Mart are hoping you will do. Once you give up your right to choose, you truly give up what power you do have as a consumer.
Have you noticed the new Wal-Mart ads that promote "green" products? That is a direct result of them being pressured to be more environmentally responsible. It really is just lip service in my opinion when you consider that their actions speak louder than their words, but it is a start.
One person can make a difference, even if it is just in your own little microcosm. | |
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Posted: 8/6/2008 4:48:11 PM | The point that Internetdatingpariah was trying to make is the same one that I also alluded to, that you are better off working to better what exists, i.e. force Wal-Mart to pressure the sweat shops to improve conditions, for Wal-Mart to improve wages, for them to make healthcare standard, etc.
And others are correct also in that it is not just Wal-Mart. A friend of mine is married to an electrician. He earns $25.00 but to put his wife and kids on his health insurance would be $250 a week, they cannot afford it so they are using public health care.
People pick on Wal-Mart because they have done capitalism better than most other companies because of the economies of scale they have created and their efficiencies in doing business. The fact of the matter is that if a big retailer like Wal-Mart closes it will be catastrophic for many communities.
The small town where my X grew up; the entire economy of the town is centered on Wal-Mart. Sure, people can drive to the bigger town 20 minutes away but that job market only has a certain capacity. Losing the jobs from that Wal-Mart will not only make unemployment skyrocket and leave people without jobs, their incomes will no longer be used to patronize the small businesses in that town that do exist.
So I repeat that the answer is not shutting Wal-Mart down or out but figuring out how to force them to engage in better business practices. Whether it is punitive or incentive-based, improving what exists is a far superior plan to putting Wal-Mart out of business. | |
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Posted: 8/6/2008 8:45:31 PM | | I've always thought that they would have been a good company to form a union, but that fell through a while back. I almost always shop at Target now. They are usually cleaner, less crowded and really not much more expensive at all. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:06:03 PM | Le Tarzhay is better all the time I love Target. It's clean, the prices reasonable and the products much better than Wal-Mart's. My friends and I love to call Target "Le Tarzhay" (I can't read or write French so you will have to excuse the phonetic spelling of the French way of saying Target)!! | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 308 | |
| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:38:15 PM | ^^ I think it would be about the same as in English. The last T would just be silent, thus, that tar-jay sound...  (I call it that too....and shop there as opposed to Wal-Mart). | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:46:01 PM | | All i have to say is, watch "High Price for Low Cost" and then tell me about their so called great business ethics. | |
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Posted: 8/6/2008 9:48:07 PM | | Well thats how they teach their business students anymore in high school/college, to maximize profits at ALL costs and that they can replace their workers infinitely. | |
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Posted: 8/6/2008 10:00:11 PM | The small town where my X grew up; the entire economy of the town is centered on Wal-Mart.
That is win-win as far as Wal-Mart is concerned - it is firmly entrenched in this small town that the people feel that they cannot survive without it. What I have been saying all along is that when Wal-Mart becomes the status quo, they will stop having such great "sales" and they will be the ones who decide what clothes, food, music, appliances, etc that we buy because there will be no more competition.
And others are correct also in that it is not just Wal-Mart.
I am aware that there are other companies that treat their employees like a disposable commodity and have lousy environmental records but the focus of this thread is Wal-Mart and what it is doing to the social fabric of our local communities. Again, since Wal-Mart is the biggest and the richest of the offenders, it is only fair that we focus on them. What incentive does the small-time offender have to change its ways if the big fish is out there getting away with murder?
p.s. - LOL, Designing and Nero - "Tarjay" it is! :) | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:19:23 PM | There you go, Griffey. Fine suggestion.
Marita, Didn't mean to ride so hard while ago, but people need to be educated about this.
MCDonald's does it with burgers, Exxon-Mobil does it with gas, and Wal-Mart does it with everything under the sun, including gas and burgers. That's the difference.
McDonalds, Alpo Bell, those kinds of places that, with the exception of their management, are places where kids are expected to go to work while they're in high school. Wal-Mart, especially in the small-town setting, is more of a career choice concept. Shame is, it's not a viable one. It could be if Wal-Mart were a little more consciencious and altruistic in their approach to business and their relationship with the people who make it happen for them. That includes the people who work for them as well as the communities they do business in.
I have a friend who was fired from Wal-Mart after 13 years in management. Yep. It had to do with talk about unions, but of course she was "terminated for exchanging emails which company policy deemed inappropriate" or some horseshit. Nothing is free at Wal-Mart, not even speech.
Watching "High Price for Low Cost" is an excellent overview of this issue. People need to be educated about these kinds of business practices so that we don't unwittingly recreate the situation with other companies in the future.
As for Wal-Mart, I think we're stuck with them. But, if people en masse become aware of their willingness to do us all dry and without a kiss, then pressure from the American consumer will have a chance to mandate improvements by Wally's Higher Powers...
-damoN- | |
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Hi Mom
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Joined: 10/18/2007
Msg: 313 | |
| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:33:11 PM | [QUOTE]i.e. force Wal-Mart to pressure the sweat shops to improve conditions, for Wal-Mart to improve wages[/QUOTE]
Too lazy to read the rest of the thread, but Walmart actually does improve wages & lobbies to increase minimums. All the jobs there I've seen being hired for paid well above minimum.
The fun question is why when I asked one of their suits: Their reasoning is that it will give people more money to spend at Walmart.
The product manafactuers are another story - but Walmart isn't really to blame for a lot of them, many ship to tons of other stores as well, including practically all their competition. Dollar-type stores are even worse. I went to an industry trade show a couple years back for cheap gift store products and "How the hell do you make all this stuff so cheap?". Most of the things in those cost between 10-40 cents wholesale and still don't make a lot of sense at only a $1 when they're handmade..
I have a friend who was fired from Wal-Mart after 13 years in management. Yep. It had to do with talk about unions, but of course she was "terminated for exchanging emails which company policy deemed inappropriate" or some horseshit. Nothing is free at Wal-Mart, not even speech.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me if it was emails that could harm her company, especially with union-type concerns. Free speech doesn't mean you can spout off anything you want while representing a company and not expect consequences. The same thing would've happened at any other large-scale company. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 3:21:59 AM |
Marita, Didn't mean to ride so hard while ago, but people need to be educated about this
Not to worry damon0028,....I love to be challenged,...it makes me think,...
Truth be told there was life before Wal-Mart ,...and if it fell off the planet today there would still be life,....
One of my sons worked for them and hated it,...then again he hated working everywhere,...
MCDonald's does it with burgers, Exxon-Mobil does it with gas, and Wal-Mart does it with everything under the sun, including gas and burgers. That's the difference
The difference is they sell more things????
sorry but that's just silly,...to the employee it doesn't matter if he/she is getting the shaft from an employer who sells a bunch of things verses an employer who only sells gas,...
Abuse is abuse,....the rest is irrelevant,....to the worker,.... | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 3:38:18 AM |
The difference is they sell more things????
sorry but that's just silly,...to the employee it doesn't matter if he/she is getting the shaft from an employer who sells a bunch of things verses an employer who only sells gas,...
Abuse is abuse,....the rest is irrelevant,....to the worker,....
It is completely relevant to the worker as they relate to the national picture. Wal-Mart has kept many employees at part-time status for years as part of their business model. Now, their workers and others everywhere are having their hours cut as businesses try to ride out the crises. Those worker's loss of spending power directly affects the overall economy. I don't understand why people fail to understand this.
I'm ****in' about the big picture here, and lots of people need to wake up and smell the coffee. No, it's not just Wal-Mart, but the example they have set tends to legitimize the general ideaology about businesses using employees as cannon fodder, so to speak, not to mention what power they have as a result of their huge empire.
Employee lay-offs and hours reductions are the canary in the coal mine. People have less to spend, so it weakens the economy. Wal-Mart and the others who operate similarly are liable to a significant extent for exacerbating their particular ripple on the pond. On the other hand, Wal-Mart's almost uncontrollable expansion helps Wal-Mart and their big-money shareholders, not the working man who is the backbone of our economic success.
-damoN- | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 5:04:45 AM |
It is completely relevant to the worker as they relate to the national picture. Wal-Mart has kept many employees at part-time status for years as part of their business model. Now, their workers and others everywhere are having their hours cut as businesses try to ride out the crises. Those worker's loss of spending power directly affects the overall economy. I don't understand why people fail to understand this.
My point earlier was,.....name me one large retailer or fast food outlet,.....or multiplex theater or any minimum wage outfit that largely exists on the backs of teen, and twenty something students,...that doesn't do this?
My point is by zeroing in on the one,...wal-mart,....the world in general thinks it's only the one that's the problem,....and THAT is what gives all those others permission to carry on as normal,.....because after all they aren't Wal-mart so their practices are just fine,.....
And yelling until the government raises the minimum wage isn't doing it,.....
We need to draw attention to the practices that employers in general are getting away with and fix it,.....all of it,....not just the one who happens to be the biggest problem,....Add up all the little ones and they combined are an even bigger problem that Wal-mart,....
In 1978 I was a baker cake decorator for Lawblaws which today is Superstore,....I was earning over $9.00 dollars an hour,.... Today that exact same position I would be lucky to pull in more than $8.00 dollars an hour,....that's THIRTY YEARS ago,.....when $9.00 was worth a he!! of a lot more don't you think?
THAT's the problem,...not only are companies allowed to rollback wages, they can pay even less merely by taking one full time position,...and giving it to two part timers,....
The work is still getting done,...but now it's done at bargain basement expenses to them,..
Untill all of them have to change their practice none of them will,....and to be honest why should the one,...Wal-mart be expected to change,....if the rest can just carry on?
If you were Wal-mart would you change?. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 6:00:50 AM |
The difference is far greater than just "faceless."
1. Local grocery stores do pay a livable wage in my neighborhood and include healthcare. Wal-Mart's "healthcare" primarly consists of folks lining up at the public health clinic and/or applying for medicare. We the taxpayers are the supporters of Wal-Mart's "healthcare."
Oh really ? Got any proof of that ?
First of all, we're not talking about grocery stores. Maybe there's a Wal-Mart near you that has a full-selection grocery store that is as well stocked with a as much variety as your average Safeway. I don't know. I do know that no Mom-and-Pop outfit that can play in that field can afford to provide the same service and selection as a Safeway or a Wal-Mart can. It's simple economics and small businesses can't compete in this arena. That's trying to compare apples to oranges.
If on the other hand you're talking about some sort of Safeway or other large chain then you're going to have to do better than this "healthcare" argument.
Safeway is well known as a "Just Under" outfit. That is, you're always "just under" the number of hours you need to qualify you for full benefits. You're always "just under" the number of hours you need to earn vacation time. Furthermore, if you're talking about a Safeway-type chain, just how do you think they got to be so big ? See many corner stores around lately ? Before you think to yourself and start furiously typing that there's one just down the street from you, bear in mind that there used to one little corner store every two or three blocks in your average city until the Safeways came along.
Now as far as your claims about healthcare are concerned, all I can say is wow. You live in a very exceptional locale because no other "local" grocery store exists on this continent that can be considered a full-selection supermarket, has prices just as reasonable as Wal-Mart (or even Safeway for that matter) AND can afford to extend such lofty benefits to its employees. The economics of it simply don't work if the owner intends to make any sort of profit because in the food distribution business, profit margins are already pretty narrow. I wonder what you consider to be "local" anyway. If you're talking about some small-town groceteria then I suggest you revise your prior statement.
The key of course is in the pricing. If your magnanimous 'local' supermarket can actually pull this off and still make a profit, it's doing so by passing on the difference to the customer. That's why people will go to Wal-Mart and all the idealism you can throw at them gets tossed right out the window.
2. Wal-Mart is so huge that it can buy at a cheaper cost and then sell at a cheaper price, that seems like a good thing until you realize that once the other little stores are driven out of business (if all we care about is the rock bottom price), Wal-Mart will be the one who decides what coffee pots we buy, what clothes we wear and what food we eat. I prefer to have a little say in the matter.
Okay, you obviously have no grasp of what makes a free market such a successful economic model.
In a free market, your creativity is what gets you paid. Wal-Mart will never be in a position to dictate to anybody what they can or can't buy. It's really very simple actually. If Wal-Mart drives every last competing small-business into the ground and then decides that from that point on it will only stock one type of any specific item, they've just opened the door to their own demise. The fact that you're here debating the merits of variety is proof of this in fact. As long as you want something that Wal-Mart doesn't stock, some business somewhere will always be around to sell it to you.
Telling those who shop at Wal-Mart that they're supporting an "evil" and "greedy" corporation is something like telling medieval peasantry to stop eating soup when there's such great tasting caviar to be had. The only people who insist that Wal-Mart is such a bad place are people who can afford to shop wherever they want to anyway. How ironic really....it's almost a form of elitism. I mean really, what a silly message :"Don't shop at Wal-Mart ! They're bad because of yada, yada, yada. Shop at Mom and Pop's House of Extortion for the same crap. Sure, you'll pay way more but you'll help keep them in business to continue charging you way more than Wal-Mart ever did. Unless of course they do the smart thing that they got into business to do which was to make money and then they become just like Wal-Mart. In that case, we'll just turn around and call them evil and tell you to shop at some other place that charges you double for the same crap. Think of all the good you'll be doing ! Think of how trendy you'll be when you pull out that receipt that proves you didn't buy it at Wal-Mart ! Think of the children of (insert Third World Counntry name here where they're quite happy to have any job at all as opposed to starving which is what they were doing before Wal-Mart opened up the factory)"
Oh yeah...that's what single parents on welfare need...less money and more idealism.
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 8:10:05 AM | Gotta - about every 10th post someone makes some stupid comment about only the rich people being able to have values and just so you can understand values are values, here is what I say in response to that:
I am a single parent, I make less than 30k, I don't get support from my ex, I have a house payment, a car payment, insurance payments and all that goes along with being a parent and a head of household - plus I have a 12 year old who is very much in tune with her electronic needs - okay? And guess what, I manage not to shop at Wal-Mart. Amazing!!!! Guess what, I'm not on welfare - SHOCKER!!! (This is the subject of a whole 'nother thread - but I'm really tired of the "single mom on welfare" concept BTW - maybe you can tell?)
You can be a head of household, single parent, one income family, make less than 30k and still not shop at Wal-Mart. It really isn't that hard where I live because there is a local grocery store - Central Market - check out their website - even GROWNUPS
work at this store - why? Because they pay a decent wage AND they provide benefits. The owners of this grocery store had another grocery store here in town but when it was clear we were going to get a Wal-Mart, they closed it. Did they throw their employees into the trash and say, thanks for nothing? NO, they assimilated these employees into their other grocery stores - they have two more in about a 25 mile radius.
Are groceries a little more expensive there? Yes! Do I pay that extra price? HECK YES. Why? Because my money is supporting a business that values its employees and their produce is local and it ROCKS. Okay, if I'm really short on money, I may go to the Albertson's store in my area - its produce is pretty crappy but their durable goods are usually okay and guess what, they're UNIONIZED (oh, no - they HAVE to treat their employees as living breathing creatures).
I never claimed to be a social econ major so feel free to attact my rationale for not patronizing Wal-Mart. There are plenty others here saying what I am saying and much better so feel free to snipe at the "weakest link." The truth is there if you want to actually stop trying to sound more "righter" and look at what is happening to the local economy.
I realize that Wal-mart sells more than just groceries, but that is how they lure us "welfare single moms" into their business - the rest - clothing, electronics, are just gravy - while our little whealps holler and scream and pee on the floor we can stock up on those fancy picture boxes and noise makers and even buy a gun - all in the same place - galll dang, what a great get up! Here is the thing, Gotta - the grocery wages set the trend in general merchandise stores - you may think I am ignorant but that is a fact. That is why I was focusing on the wages for grocery store employees.
It seems to me you are just looking for the cheapest price in town, which is what I am trying to say - if you look for the cheapest deal, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR - and it may be a hell of a lot more expensive in the long run. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 11:01:58 AM | Think that grocery good guys are non-existent today? Think again - here's a little bit more about the place I decide to spend my shekels at:
Town & Country Markets Inc.
Nourishing the Quality of Life
Town & Country Markets Inc. is a locally owned and operated independent retail grocery company. Founded in 1957 when John and Mo Nakata and Ed Loverich opened the Town & Country Thriftway on Bainbridge Island, we currently operate six stores in the Puget Sound area.
Our Town & Country Market on Bainbridge Island, Ballard Market and Greenwood Market operate under the Town & Country banner. These are truly “neighborhood” markets, and each is as unique as the communities they serve.
The Central Market concept was born with the opening of Central Market in Poulsbo in 1995. In 2000, our Shoreline Thriftway was remodeled to become our second Central Market. The third Central Market opened in September of 2004 in Mill Creek. The Central Markets are “destination” food stores, as the broad scope of quality, selection and value offered entice folks not only within the neighborhood to shop, but also people from surrounding areas.
In each of our Markets we strive to offer the freshest, highest quality foods available. With features such as exceptional produce, a wide selection of natural and organic foods, superb fresh seafood, bulk foods, natural meats and specialty foods, we intend to satisfy the needs of a diverse array of shoppers. Our staff members are friendly, knowledgeable and passionate about good food.
Mission Statement
We operate innovative retail grocery stores with diverse formats, in select locations, dedicated to serving our customer's needs while recognizing our obligations to the community and responsibility to the environment.
Careful selection and support of our employees personally and professionally create an atmosphere of mutual respect, trust, and teamwork.
Quality, diversity, and profitability drive our organizational structure and operating systems, which fulfill our commitment to our customers, employees, and suppliers.
Wanna check it out for yourself? Google "central market" and poulsbo - you'll find the link. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 11:07:10 AM | | I remembered when I was young and single and Kroger was unionized I knew this guy who drove a Corvette and lived in an upscale apartment...he'd been a bag boy for Kroger for 8 years! They like others had to get competitive so they went to the "just under" concept as well...But sacking groceries with maybe a high school diploma doesn't need to pay more than cops, teachers, other positions which require more education and training. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 11:27:35 AM | Here it is from the "horse's mouth" - ie - Wal-Mart's own website - regarding health care:
Affordable health coverage
Individual coverage is available for as little as $5 per month in some areas and no more than $8 per month nationwide. Today, more than 90 percent of associates have medical coverage—either from Wal-Mart, a spouse, a parent, or a federal or state plan.
Hmmmm..... interesting - how generous of Wal-Mart to let the spouses, parents and/or federal/state plans help out - notice they don't mention what portion of that 90% is actually covered by Wal-Mart's "health care." Also, what about that other 10% - what is that all about - maybe they are SO fit that they don't need to go to the doctors? | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 12:23:14 PM | Funny how they call them associates...
Maybe if we were talking about Geico here and we were all cavemen, it'd be an easier issue for us.
Ooops! Some of us ARE cavemen...
I knew that guy with the Corvette and the nice apartment. Had the best weed and the cleanest coke in town!
-damoN- | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/7/2008 11:50:46 PM | high school diploma doesn't need to pay more than cops, teachers, other positions which require more education and training.
No one is asking for that much. They are asking for enough to live on. I wonder if companies like Wall Mart know that paying your employees more makes them happier and more productive thus helping your company. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/8/2008 8:29:21 AM | | how stupid you might as well shop there its cheaper and they dont give a shit if they got a couple ppl who wont shop there anymore anyway beacuse they have all the money they need coming in just from half of us... so qui ****ing and just shop there.. -rolls eyes | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 8/8/2008 9:26:28 AM | you might as well shop there its cheaper.
Jessica: In case you didn't notice, we are trying to have a Big Kid conversation where we are debating whether just picking the cheapest price in town doesn't have larger impacts and costs on society as a whole and why Wal-Mart, the wealthiest of the offenders, feels it does not have to abide by the same rules as the rest of us.
they dont give a shit if they got a couple ppl who wont shop there
Not true, Jessica, have you noticed all those new GREEN-Friendly Wal-Mart ads? Did Wal-Mart just decide in a vacuum that they wanted to run some environmentally friendly ads or does it prove that Wal-Mart is starting to be concerned about its tarnished image? Now if it would just actually do something environmentally sound instead of spending money on "green-friendly" ads - that would be refreshing.
I care enough to think about how I spend my money and even though it is just shekels compared to what Wal-Mart makes, I am content that my money is going to promote my local community, not degrade it. | |
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