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 Author Thread: Wally-Mart SUX[Thread Closed/Bumped Thread No Clear OT]
 rks58

Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 101
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/20/2006 6:36:02 PM
1) Long-term members continually ratify contracts that allow them to maintain their benefits and higher wage tier, while permitting new hires to be brought in at minimum wage (in my state, that's $4.25 an hour).


This is not a failing of the union. It is an 'industry standard' practice in service industry jobs on both sides of the border because of the high turn-over rate in new hires. Management usually insists on it as a 'make or break' negotiating point.


3) The grocery chain that I used to work for has recently mandated that all new hires must work 6 days to get their 40 hours. No one who needs two days off a week will be able to work full-time. All with the blessing of the UFCW.


This is not something that is generally under the control of the union. Every state or province I have worked in has a clause in their employment standards laws that states it is the management's right to set hours of work.


4) I don't know about where you live, but here it's nearly impossible to find a grocery chain that has baggers anymore. Those positions have been eliminated, and they've been replaced with baggage carousels, so that the cashiers' duties have been expanded to include bagging groceries while their rate of pay has remained the same.


This too is an industry standard practice on both sides of the border. Again, every place I have worked has laws that allow the employer to permanently eliminate an entire job class. Often the only thing a union can negotiate about this what the eliminated workers are entitled to (e.g. transfer to another job class, amount of severence or notice to be given). It is also common that employers have the right to determine job descriptions.


2) The union requires that those new hires, while making minimum wage, are last in line for any overtime available; those hours go first to employees who make $15-$20 per overtime hour.


This is quite common. It is done as a 'perk' for longevity/employee loyalty (kind of like management expense accounts). It is understandable that new hires don't like this since they are the lowest paid but most employers will adamantly refuse to provide loyalty/longevity bonuses. It kind of sucks but you do deserve something for staying year upon year since the employer benefits directly from the greater experience.


And, btw, since when is permitting members of management to vote at union meetings considered "levelling the playing field"??


That depends on the representation clause of the contract. I have been in many places where managers up to a certain level are also union members.

The long and the short of it is that it is easy for a company with big bucks to intimidate or control individual employees one-on-one or in small groups. It is much harder when you have to try do that with a large group who can combine resources. That is how the playing field gets leveled.
 Monday In October

Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 102
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Wal-Mart sucks
Posted: 4/20/2006 7:13:04 PM
The theory works like this: In order for a retailer to offer the lowest prices they generally buy from the lowest priced manufacturer/wholesaler. If (as a manufacturer) I have to charge more, because of wages/benefits/taxes/employment standards/etc, for goods I make entirely in the U.S. the retailer won't buy from me because the imported goods are less expensive. In order to stay in business I have to move my manufacturing to a country that has lower wages/benefits/taxes/employment standards/etc. That means I have to fire all my American workers or convince them to relocate to the other country with the lower standard of living (not many would want to do this for obvious reasons). This creates higher unemployment, lowers the domestic standard of living and all else that goes with not having enough jobs for the size of the available workforce. Hence the domestic jobs have been effectively 'exported'.


This practice is only possible because consumers, in general, buy the lower cost merchandise from manufacturers in China and other cheap labor countries. I don't see how Wal-Mart is directly responsible for this -- rather, I think the consumers are. When there's a Wal-Mart available, consumers buy their cheap crap at Wal-Mart. In areas where no Wal-Mart or other large retailer exists, people still buy the same cheap crap made in China, they just get it from a different retailer. The fact that Wal-Mart makes it easier for consumers to buy the crap doesn't make them responsible for consumers buying it, it's the collective will of consumers who are willing to buy merchandise from China that causes the jobs to be lost domestically.
 rks58

Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 103
Wal-Mart sucks
Posted: 4/20/2006 7:35:35 PM

This practice is only possible because consumers, in general, buy the lower cost merchandise from manufacturers in China and other cheap labor countries. I don't see how Wal-Mart is directly responsible for this -- rather, I think the consumers are. When there's a Wal-Mart available, consumers buy their cheap crap at Wal-Mart. In areas where no Wal-Mart or other large retailer exists, people still buy the same cheap crap made in China, they just get it from a different retailer. The fact that Wal-Mart makes it easier for consumers to buy the crap doesn't make them responsible for consumers buying it, it's the collective will of consumers who are willing to buy merchandise from China that causes the jobs to be lost domestically.


This is true, to a point. The problem is when 'big box' retailers will only stock the cheap crap you don't have much choice do you unless your willing to go back to a pre- or early industrial era standard of living where you didn't have all this stuff. This, however, isn't the whole issue with Wal-Mart as a corporation. The other part of the equation is that Wal-Mart's employment practices are attempting dragging employment standards on this continent down to the same level as those in places like China and their business practices do the same to the economies/standard of living in the communities where they establish themselves.
 mystlw

Joined: 9/19/2005
Msg: 104
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Wal-Mart sucks
Posted: 4/20/2006 8:35:27 PM

Here is a better alternative to Walmart

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costco


Right. Do a websearch for Costco and its repugnant abuses of Eminent Domain. Stealing personal property for a freeway is one thing, doing it to erect yet another super-discount store is another entirely.


Dont tell me they dont need a union.


I, personally, did not say that they don't need a union; they do. But they don't need the UFCW.
 rainpanda

Joined: 10/2/2005
Msg: 105
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/20/2006 9:44:51 PM

I don't understand this; what jobs are being exported?

rks58: The theory works like this: In order for a retailer to offer the lowest prices they generally buy from the lowest priced manufacturer/wholesaler...


I think the story below about what happened to a longstanding and respected, high-quality US manufacturer like Rubbermaid as a result of trying to keep dealing with Wal-Mart, is a good example of what rks was describing. Wal-Mart played hardball with Rubbermaid and essentially demanded that they provide their product to Wal-Mart at below their own manufacturing costs...costs which had risen dramatically due to huge increases in the market cost of resins.


2000-08-06
Wooster, OH. Wal-Mart Bounces Rubbermaid

The Akron Beacon Journal (www.ohio.com) carried a 4 part series on megastores in mid July, including an insight to Wal-Mart's power over its manufacturing vendors. A full page story profiles what Wal-Mart did to Rubbermaid, one of the country's most ubiquitous makers of kitchenware. In 1994, Rubbermaid was one of the best-known plastic companies, says the story, but by 1999 Rubbermaid was bought out by a lesser-known company called Newell Company. A former Rubbermaid manager calls the takeover "a sad story", the gist of which is that Wal-Mart did Rubbermaid in. In the mid 1990s, Rubbermaid was dealing with skyrockeeting prices for resin, a key ingredient in its plastic products. In fact, the company lost $250 million in 1995 due to resin prce hikes. When Rubbermaid tried to pass a higher price for its products on to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart warned that if prices rose, Rubbermaid products would be dropped. At the time, Wal-Mart was as much as 20% of Rubbermaid's business. Rubbermaid executives told the Akron Beacon Journal that Wal-Mart's selling of products as loss leaders also hurt Rubbermaid, because other stores wanted Rubbermaid to lower its prices for them also. "They backed us into a corner," one Rubbermaid manager admitted. "We couldn't recoup our product-development costs before they'd slash prices. That led to less innovation." When Rubbermaid raised the prices of some of its toys to Wal-Mart, the retailer dropped Rubbermaid toys, and dropped the kitchen products also, going with another company "adept at making Rubbermaid look-likes at a lower cost." In 1995, Rubbermaid earnings plunged by 30%. Wal-Mart also insisted that Rubbermaid get its products to Wal-Mart within 2 days of being ordered, and if it didn't, it was fined for each dollar Wal-Mart said it lost, and was required to buy back unsold wares. Finally, Wal-Mart dictated to Rubbermaid what types of products it should make, and how it should make them. The former Rubbermaid manager said Wal-Mart "squeezed too hard." In 1998, the Newell Company bought out the troubled Rubbermaid company, and their products started to reappear on Wal-Mart shelves--ostensibly because Newell Company agrees to do things 'the Wal-Mart way.'

The Akron Beacon Journal article suggests that Rubbermaid suffered by standing up to Wal-Mart demands, and the Wooster firm's "fall" was due, in part, to Wal-Mart's decision to pull Rubbermaid products from its shelves. Even a plastics company proved to be unable to bounce back from such an impact. So Wal-Mart's power over its manufacturers and its own employees are a testament to the consequences of "everday low prices". Wal-Mart pushes down the cost of labor and production--but they are prices to pay all along the way, from sweatshops to manufacturing bankruptcies. Most consumers have no idea where cheap prices come from--a world-wide chain of exploitation...

And although I think I posted the following interview segment on a PBS Frontline show titled "Is Wal-Mart good for America" on the other Wal-Mart thread in the Politics forum, it's really worth repeating here. It was an incredible show that made understanding the dynamics of how Wal-Mart actually changed the drivers for the retail industry, which in turn accelerated the loss of a lot of US jobs to offshoring. This URL contains only one segment out of several in the Frontline show. There was also a segment that showed in brutal detail how Wal-Mart brought Rubbermaid to its feet and ultimately led to its demise.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/interviews/lehman.html

I hope the readers of this thread find these resources illuminating and interesting...and I'm hoping that at least a person or two reading these two threads, who isn't already boycotting Wal-Mart, will become motivated to do so, if it's possible for them on a practical level.

~ Panda
 lovableladywanted

Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 106
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/11/2007 11:49:35 PM
With the help of local govts. Wallymart has no respect for peoples private property ownership and has forced people to sell their homes to them for whatever price. Eminent domain should only be used to build roads and police stations and schools etc. Greedy local govt do not care about their townspeople. Its very sad and usually its the minorities that have gotten screwed.
 betterlate

Joined: 12/22/2006
Msg: 107
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Wally-Mart SUX Yeah and TArget is French owned
Posted: 4/12/2007 12:12:58 AM
France, the country that just loves us, owns Target, Bic Pens, and thousands of othe companies... Loreal, Six pages worth... of companies that work hard to look American. Remember 911? France would not stand with the USA, so people started researching all of the companies that are french owned... They sit over there and laugh, what else can we sell those stupid Americans, we have them drinking our water.. and paying more for it than GAS... I dont shop at Target, they suck, I would rather go without.

It is time we took back our country from the banks and the corporations. Pay off your credit cards, stop borrowing money pay off your house, keep your car as long as you can, pay for things cash and put the big guys out of business... hahahahahahah go independent, grow your own food.. organic... barter with neighbors... stop paying taxes into the corruption riddled government. We must get the private corporations like: The federal reserve, the irs, and the post office... back in the control of....WE THE PEOPLE... the government by the people, of the people and FOR the people... not the freaking banks, politicians and corporations.... and special interest groups with way too much money...

Just a thought..
 Valley of the Dolls

Joined: 10/24/2006
Msg: 108
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/12/2007 12:23:59 AM
The way I see it there aren't a lot of stores catering to the poor and lower middle class so I think Wal-Mart is a Godsend for rural America.

I didn't know that Target was owned by the French but I quess that explains why Target is cheap and chic :-) I think all retailers should follow Targets lead and offer customers style at affordable prices.
 lovableladywanted

Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 109
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/12/2007 12:27:25 AM
betterlate france was smarter than us they knew there were no weapons and they dont have blood on their hands for this illegal war that big corps like wallymart profit from .
 Cutepid

Joined: 4/4/2007
Msg: 110
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/12/2007 1:37:54 AM
I worked at walmarts for almost 20 years, about three dozen different stores, and honestly there is good and bad. First of all..vendors..they will pressure the vendors in bidding auctions to get the lowest price..if that means that another country gets the goods..so be it..they are interested in the lowest price..we are talking cents here sometimes..but that is enough for an American company not able to match it..and look at how much they export from china..
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/walmart/walmart_5.cfm

"Wal-Mart’s biggest trading partner is China. The world’s largest retailer admits it bought some ____$18 billion____ in merchandise in 2004, from China, nearly 10 percent of all Chinese goods sold in this country that year. Through August 2005, the United States was running a $126 billion trade deficit with China."
"More than 70 per cent of the products sold at Wal-Mart are made in China, according to the China Business Weekly."

It puts vendors in a predicament..or in some cases a prepicklement
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/walmart/walmart_5.cfm

Now please SOMEBODY ask Lee Scott this question...since when the hell is 28 hours considered a "full time" job..what happened to a 40 hour work week..they do that so they can cut hours according to sales...walmart states it has over a million employees..well do some research and find out..just how many are full time..and I am not taking about assistant managers or such..I am talking about real people..on the floor..on the registers..

How do they save money?..pinching not pennyhere or there..but every penny..
example...they base your vacation time on hours worked....all year..so if you worked 32 hours a week..but missed a couple of days...you might get less then a weeks pay..like 29.7
So you cut back on hours during the year at certain times..thats no big deal right?
Most people in walmarts are working two jobs..just to meet poverty level.
cut back 8 hours every week..whats that add up to..almost a full week of pay..not so minor now is it?

And don't think for an instance walmart has not watched closely the reaction to home depots fiasco splashed over the media recently and also circuit citys firing of all their top sales managers (told to come back in 10 weeks at a lower pay)....if they think they can get away with that also..they will do it..

health insurance...
some people are paying a $150 deductable..some even more..$300...$500..and then..after that..you still pay 30%...

bottom line is walmart has gotten so powerful now (see its attempt to enter the banking community) its not only demanding what they will pay for goods..and workers..in the end its going to collapse..and then where we all of us be....and walmart stock reflects that..when's the last time you saw it above $70..YEARS AGO

so think carefully my friends about where and why you shop at a certian place
 sillygoose

Joined: 3/4/2006
Msg: 111
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/12/2007 5:29:38 AM
Well I buy my gas at a local station, my grocery's at a small local market, but I do buy alot of stuff a Walmart also. I am not for the small guy, nor for the big guy. I am for all of those little hungry kids in the world. The ones that think they are in heaven if they get a rare candy bar. And the poor elders that has to budget thier SSI income just so they have enough money left over to buy thier medicine at the end of the month. Now that being said. Yes they should shop at Walmart if they can save a few more cents to add on to thier Electric bill or heating bill. More important things in the world to think about then whether or not I should get my laundry detergent at Walmart or down the road at a smaller store.
 knoxman

Joined: 3/24/2007
Msg: 112
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/12/2007 11:19:24 AM
Simple-If you don't like Wal-Mart, here's a novel idea-STAY THE HELL AWAY!!! I've shopped there for years-NEVER had a problem of any kind there. When you're the biggest around, you're always gonna have your critics. So employees have to pay for health insurance. Well, news flash-WHO DOSEN'T? Insurance costs are going up daily,and the cost is being put on the employee,no matter where you're employed. And what about Curcuit City's big plan(scheme) to "let go" employees, then offer them their old jobs back-at a MUCH lower rate of pay. Why's no one outraged by this? Because they're too busy whining about Wal-Mart. I've known quite a few Wal-Mart employees, and they're all happy with their jobs. At one location here in Knoxville,TN, there's a Wal-Mart and a Target across the street from each other. Guess which one is always packed with customers(hint-it ain't Target), and which one looks like it's closed all the time. Final question-why do people who constantly whine about Wal-Mart always end up shopping there?
 downforit2007

Joined: 12/12/2006
Msg: 113
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/12/2007 12:03:36 PM
I'm kinda half-and-half on the subject, actually.
Wal-Mart does SUCK in a way, but when you're a laborer who only makes $9 an hour, every penny saved DOES count for me. Why should I pay $15 for a watch if I can get the same thing for $6 at Wal-Mart? What will I do with that extra $9? Anything that I want! Why should I pay $3.50 for a gallon of milk at a convenience store when I can get the same thing at Wal-Mart for $2.00? What will I do, pray tell, with that extra $1.50 in change?
Buy a bag of chips to go with the milk!
I don't like the idea of Wal-Mart exporting goods from China, but HALF the crap we all own comes from there anyway! And saving a dollar or two may not seem like much to you college grads who can afford to pay $100 for a pair of jeans, but when you're making $1200 a month to make a living from, you'll realize that saving money isn't about what China does or doesn't do for the U.S. economy, it's about having to deal with SURVIVAL in your best interests.
Let China do what the hell they want with their people. We're 10,000 miles away, it's none of our concern, especially when it's a Communist nation.
 jeremy66

Joined: 3/6/2007
Msg: 114
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/13/2007 4:34:54 PM
Besides the obvious that's stated here,another problem I have with Wal-Mart is that they're always laying off. Lived in a small town & every time I went there the parking lot was full,but they had like 4 layoffs in a year. Prices aren't the only thing they cut.......
 countrycanuck85

Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 115
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/13/2007 4:53:09 PM

Sorry, not going to go buy something more expensive just because they offend people or whatever. I have no clue what they have supposedly done. Only thing I know is that they are cheaper than every other store which means I can actually afford to buy things I wouldn't be able to otherwise.

Show me a store that offers the same merchandise at the same price or lower and I will never shop at Walmart again.


Exactly. Plus, that doesn't even mention the simple convenience of it all. Who, in their right mind, likes going to 8 different little stores, when they could save all that time, money, and gas to just go one place? People are complaining about exhaust and carbon monoxide polluting the air, so doesn't it just make sense to go to ONE place to do 95% of your shopping? If they're using little Mexican kids to make the items I buy, then so be it. By choosing to shop somewhere else, I'm only costing myself more money, and it still doesn't help those kids (who should be lucky to have a job at all in that kind of economy).
 CharlesEdm

Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 116
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Wally-Mart SUX Yeah and TArget is French owned
Posted: 4/13/2007 6:53:53 PM

France, the country that just loves us, owns Target, Bic Pens, and thousands of othe companies... Loreal, Six pages worth... of companies that work hard to look American. Remember 911? France would not stand with the USA, so people started researching all of the companies that are french owned.


Wouldn't stand with you? Funny france has troops in Afghanistan you know the country that actually supported terror?

Oh you mean IRAQ!?! Geeze isn't being pissed with them for not invading kinda like being angry at the friend who tells you not to drink and drive, and refuses to get in the car with you? It's not their fault you guys decided to plow into the tree, and it seems pretty silly at this point to be ****ing they arn't in the car with you bleeding all over the floor.
 oceanplayer

Joined: 4/3/2007
Msg: 117
Wally-Mart SUX Yeah and Target is French owned
Posted: 4/13/2007 9:05:40 PM
I can't stand Wal-Mard! (French for Wal-Shyt!) The documentary on Wal-Crap is good. I am a boycotter and proud of it. They can move out of my country anytime!

They have more products made in China in that place than stores in China!
 lovableladywanted

Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 118
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Wally-Mart SUX Yeah and Target is French owned
Posted: 4/14/2007 2:31:31 AM
Charles Right on the money, the right wing spin on France is ridiculous and its great they have not contributed to the slaughter and maiming of iraqians and their own . Oh in relation to this thread lmao. I do not ,as I have stated ,see the connection between France and wally mart
 CharlesEdm

Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 119
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Wally-Mart SUX Yeah and Target is French owned
Posted: 4/14/2007 2:41:27 AM
There is no connection, it's just a red herring slam. Neo cons cant stand to have their favorite corporate welfare projects be insulted.
 TruckMan123

Joined: 12/26/2006
Msg: 120
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Wally-Mart SUX Yeah and Target is French owned
Posted: 4/18/2007 8:15:13 PM
Walmart does have some shady ways of doing business and they treat there employees pretty badly. Ever notice when you go into a Walmart you never see the people smiling like they do on tv? That is because the pay is low, benefits are aweful, health care is a joke and managment treats you like nothing more than another object in the payroll system.

Also the crowds are aweful. I will go to another store and pay and extra 3.00 and avoid the crowds and save a lot of time and see a smiling face or two.
 dumberthanowlshit

Joined: 2/16/2007
Msg: 121
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Wally-Mart SUX Yeah and Target is French owned
Posted: 4/18/2007 8:38:50 PM
When the Wal mart in my town wanted to expand..it was supercenter or nothing. A town of 11,000 with a Super center? The town was split on the issue, but we all know who won. And then when they built it, they made the city pay for sewers, curbs..etc.. The old one did not have an automotive center or grocery store...but when they opened the new one with both...my friends grocery store closed the day they opened. And I never could figure why they built it 3 miles out of town, til an issue came up about where the nre Mo. river bridge should be built and where it should come out. Seems the Hwy dept decided about...3...miles up the river, Supprise ,Wal Mart will have a prime corner!! We will all end up working for Wal Mart.

I wanna be a greeter....Hi..welcome to Wal Mart!! Now..get your shit and get out@!!!!
 2findU

Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 122
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/19/2007 5:44:35 AM
Unfortunately as far as products being made in China, it doesn't matter where you buy it from. Walmart's not the only store selling Chinese made products.
 onesimpleneed

Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 123
Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/19/2007 6:04:11 AM
And when we can no longer produce anything here in the USA because we have no manufacturing base...and we have to behave like the good little sheep we are...then it won't take an invasion force of millions from a foreign army to control your entire life...we are well down that road. I don't shop there.

That's my 2 cents...and soon those two cents will be able to buy a mansion and a yacht from Wallyworld.

Remember Kmart? Sears? Yeah they're big powerhouses now right? WalMart will collapse in on itself soon enough. All that has to happen is enough suppliers refusing to do business with them. It will be the largest mexican standoff in american business history.
 wcdancer

Joined: 8/14/2006
Msg: 124
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/19/2007 6:43:26 AM
How is this, when you live in a town that has two choice Dollar General or Wal-Mart where are you going to go? BOTH! Wal-mart for big shopping days and dollar general for a quick pick up. But that does not make anyone a bad person. Have you seen the price of gas today? If you took that and the higher prices at the Big K-mart 30 minutes from this town people would be losing a lot of money shopping out of Wal-Mart. (this is a reflection on my hometown not where i live today). Just my 2 cents.
 mystlw

Joined: 9/19/2005
Msg: 125
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Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 4/20/2007 2:34:53 PM

Have you seen the price of gas today? If you took that and the higher prices at the Big K-mart 30 minutes from this town people would be losing a lot of money shopping out of Wal-Mart. (this is a reflection on my hometown not where i live today).


It's not just your hometown, it's everywhere. For example, I belong to a few groups that make and donate baby blankets, chemo caps, lapghans, etc, to hospitals and charities; my favorite sports weight baby yarn costs $2.99 a skein at Wal-mart, but at the nearest craft store (which is 15 minutes further away) it's $3.99. I don't mean to sound uncharitable, but I can donate more items, and therefore help more people, buying my yarn at Wal-mart.
And, on a larger scale, it begs the question: how can the ever-dwindling middle-class be expected to spend 30% more than is necessary? Principles and rhetoric are fine and dandy, but they don't feed our families, do they?
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