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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:57:46 PM | I won't argue whether walmart employees work hard. You're missing the point.
If you are so unhappy with the wage you make, then make a change. If you are
completely loyal to that company, as you appear, then suck it up. Walmart is well known for keeping their employees in a position of powerlessness. Therefore they can't strike and get wage increases, etc.
It doesn't take a college degree to get a better job than Walmart. It does take drive, ambition, and a willingness to actually work. You can hang on to the idea that you're owed something so long as you have people to fall back on that will feed you and house you when things get bad. But for the rest of us, we know that if we don't work, our kids go hungry. If we don't work, we don't get a roof over our heads.
And human decency has nothing to do with walmart. If you come to my home and you're hungry, I'll feed you. Might even offer you work. Do you think a walmart CEO would? | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/25/2008 5:08:56 PM | | I understand your point. I think that if you hate your job you should change. Wall Mart is not the only place that does not pay enough to live on. Resturants, Factores, and Clothing Stores do to. To make enough to live on you need at least 9 or 10 dollars. It is hard to find a place that pays that. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/25/2008 11:24:44 PM | >> To make enough to live on you need at least 9 or 10 dollars. It is hard to find a place that pays that.
And do you think this is a coincidence?
Moreso, if we increase the pay for retail, won't the cost of products increase? Time to celebrate decency- you're preaching an ideal that will ensure those who are employed will be paid in excess, until their business can no longer afford to keep them employed, while discouraging people from hiring anyone else- So if we would put your ideals into practice, we'd have an increased unemployment while at the same time, make food and clothing more expensive and less accessible to the unemployed and impoverish
>>> To make enough to live on you need at least 9 or 10 dollars.
Ironically enough, though, the average pay for full time workers for Walmart? That's right- $10.75 | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/26/2008 10:40:36 AM | | I would say that wages need to be closer to $15 an hour to make a decent living these days with gas prices being so high. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/26/2008 11:00:38 AM | | You're right there, they do ask manufacturers to use cheaper parts to make a product, and while it may appear to be the exact item by the same manufacturer carried in other retailers, walmart does give give manufacturers the choice of making the product from cheaper parts and or cheaper labor just for their stores so it can be sold for less, or not be able to sell products to them. An expose' was recently done by a major news media using hidden cameras and microphones with compaines trying to get their products on walmart shelves , and the "selection" process products go through by walmart corparate buyers, it's no wonder there aren't many manufacturing jobs left in the USA and everyone who used to work making products here now works for Walmart stocking them | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/26/2008 4:49:24 PM | Moreso, if we increase the pay for retail, won't the cost of products increase? Time to celebrate decency- you're preaching an ideal that will ensure those who are employed will be paid in excess, until their business can no longer afford to keep them employed, while discouraging people from hiring anyone else- So if we would put your ideals into practice, we'd have an increased unemployment while at the same time, make food and clothing more expensive and less accessible to the unemployed and impoverish
So instead of paying the CEO 50 million dollars why don't they use some of that money to pay there employees better. If the products increase at Wall Mart a little bit it is not going to kill the store. If you are a good business you should pay your employee a decent wage. If not hire less people until you can. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 4:57:04 AM | >>>I would say that wages need to be closer to $15 an hour to make a decent living these days with gas prices being so high.
Gas is a necessity? You cannot live without using a car?
While we're at it, why not simply have Papa Government ration the gas to you? After all- you seem to think you're entitled to it.....
Nonetheless, I love how I proved that the reality is exactly as the standards you demanded- then you increased the standards. Smooth. If they had earned $15 an hour, I'm sure you'd be complaining that the average full time employee isn't earning $20
>>>So instead of paying the CEO 50 million dollars why don't they use some of that money to pay there employees better.
Because that CEO worked hard to be where they are- they spent years in schools and decades proving to those around them that they are competent- they are able- they can lead their business and bring in superior profits- and you believe it is your right to dictate a limit on how much these people can make?
You damn those who work hard to protect those who refuse to. How is that going to create an ideal society? Won't it stifle competition, if those who work hard are punished while those who do not are rewarded?
>>>If the products increase at Wall Mart a little bit it is not going to kill the store.
Can't people do that already? If I want to go to a store that supports my ideals at increased cost, I can go to Costco- where the prices are increased, and you pay to enter the building, because the employees are paid more. Why do you believe it is your right to dictate how these stores are run? Can't you simply choose to take your business elsewhere?
What about the people who NEED those lower prices? What if you can't afford to go to Costco? What about people who work for Ma and Pa shops, who make significantly less than those whom you demand we pity, Walmart employees? Should they go without because they don't earn enough? Should they have to go with less food, less clothing, dirty clothes, ect, because you believe it is your right to enforce your ideals through a private business?
It sure is easy to say people can spend more on the price of food when YOU'RE not hungry. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 5:36:13 AM | HEY folks... Bob here.
Just my 2cents here...
A friend of mine once told me-
"Walmart RUIN small towns!"
(because they put all the mom
and pop's out of business).
This interested me, wanted to
check it out- just for s**** and
giggles- you know?!
What I found out thru a PBS type
of (hopefully) un-biased program
was...... what WallyMart does is-
they "bully" a LOT of the makers/
producers of the products they
sell.
As in, they just tell company a or b
(maybe a big clothing maker ,or say
frozen food producer)- "look, we are
NOT paying x or y for said products
we purchase from you... we are paying
"Z"...... and thats that!!! 0 questions.
And if said company doesnt shut up, and
take what Walmart GIVES em'............
gonzo.
WallyMart just says, ok... that ongoing
order of say 68.9 million "widgets" a year-
GOODNIGHT.
T-H-E-N, the city where these widgets
are made goes belly-up because their
"bread and butter" for jobs goes byebye.
Say anywhere from what, 23-41% of that
city MIGHT be employed there.
And to think the residents of that particular
city, probably looked at WallyMart as say
a "savior" to them- when they had first
brought whatever operations they brought
there- jobs, job, JOBS- or so they thought?!?!
:(
And ***ESPECIALLY*** in the here-and-now
economy as we all know!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any comments on my 2 cents worth??????! ;) | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 6:16:59 AM | As in, they just tell company a or b
(maybe a big clothing maker ,or say
frozen food producer)- "look, we are
NOT paying x or y for said products
we purchase from you... we are paying
"Z"...... and thats that!!! 0 questions.
Wal-Mart also buys in such tremendous quantities, that they should get the price they ask for. Why should they pay the same price per a unit as any other retailer does when they are more than likely going to buy 10x more products?
You should also include in your post how there is a waiting list of manufacturers HOPING to sell their products at Wal-Mart. Rarely is Wal-Mart seeking out products to stock at their stores. It's usually the other way around and in those situations, Wal-Mart dictates the terms as to which way those products will be aquired. They have to watch costs as well.
One time while shopping there, I saw these empty boxes with stickers placed on them stating that they should be returned for recycling or re-use because it cost the company $0.80 a piece to replace them. So if they are so concerned about cardboard boxes, imagine what it means to them when finding products to sell.
Again, this all goes back to the consumer. If the consumer was willing to pay more, then Wal-Mart would stock better quality American made items. But if higher prices prevent those products from selling, then they have to take action to change it. It's very simple really. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 2:20:00 PM | | The people who need low prices do so because there job does not pay them enough in the first place. Prices are going up and wages need to be keep at the same level. Not all CEO's go to school some build from the ground up. Employee work hard to and without the employee's the CEO would not have a company. I am not saying there is a limit in how much they can make I am saying if they are making millions there is no reason to be greedy and pay your employees very little. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 2:38:29 PM | Its funny how they do sell guns at some walmart stores like the oens in Pennsylvania. I bought my painball marker there witha alser scope that is really ment for a .22 rifle. And they olso sold real guns there too. Pennsylvania is like the texas of the North east. Crazzy place. In NY/NJ and msot other places tehy don;t sell guns at walmart. they underpay their workers, they put other places out of business. But poor people love to shop there. Tehy also beat up their suppliers to get lower prices ebcuase they buy in such bulk. They are good in some ways as for offering lower prices but some of their business practices and they way they treat their workers is apalling.
The closest one to me is a 20 minute drive in a direction I don't go in Especuially when I got better places to go to. Wallmart has a crappy electronics section. I don't buy cheap clothes and can;t fuind anything there for me. Walmart is for poor people. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 5:18:14 PM | >>> Prices are going up and wages need to be keep at the same level.
But you are demanding that prices go up to pay people more- you find nothing contradictory to this? Where do you draw the line? What if Walmart doubles the price of food, and thus the cost of living goes up, thus they need to increase their employees pay, thus they need more money, thus they increase the cost of food, and thus the cost of living goes up, and thus they increase what their employees pay......(ect)
What about people who are unemployed? Should they go without because you feel it perfectly okay to arbitrarily raise the price on goods?
>>>Not all CEO's go to school some build from the ground up.
Then your beliefs are even worse in that situation! Please, explain to me how a self-made man, who saw something no one else did and offered people a service and was successful because of it deserves their money less than someone who went to school and trained to become a leader of a business someone else created?
>>>Employee work hard to and without the employee's the CEO would not have a company.
And without the CEO, the employees would not have a job to come to either! A well functioning business is an extension of the CEO or managements ability to run their business- an extension of their mind and their ability to put that mind to work. An employee could very well****around all day at work and still have a job to come to the next day- not because of they are so amazing that their minimum is exceptional- but because of the abilities of management to manage their business, and work harder. If a CEO decided to simply stop trying, stop working, and just do the bare minimum as these numerous employees you are defending, then the business would fail.
Its because management works harder is why they not only earn more, but DESERVE more. Want to earn more money? Show you deserve it, not that you're entitled to it.
>>>I am saying if they are making millions there is no reason to be greedy and pay your employees very little.
Why is it greedy and selfish for people in management positions to accept well paying jobs after working hard for years or decades for them, but unselfish and generous to accept a well paying job simply for existing?
Is it selfish to earn your money, but generous to receive it unearned? | |
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ils99
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Joined: 5/30/2008
Msg: 213 | |
| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 6:22:44 PM | | I don't know just how big Walmart is, economically, business-wise etc, but they're not the only superstores that sell goods made in places that have lower than minimum wages. There are stores here (albeit not as large as Walmart) that also import 99% of their goods from those places. Seriously this happens everywhere in the world, and even if you don't shop there, I doubt 1 or 2 loss of customers will change very much. Besides, why would you want to pay over $50 for a t shirt when you can get one for only $5 or $10 elsewhere? Its just common sense, me thinks. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 8:29:18 PM | Poor people do have alternatives! Family Dollar is a fine store, and I've been buying various items there for a long time. Even nonpoor people like the store. It has broad appeal--they sell beautiful US-made greeting cards for 50 cents apiece. I've even gotten compliments on the cards I have bought there (and the others had no clue the card was bought at Family Dollar!! ). Family Dollar also has a nice assortment of snack foods for less than you would pay at the grocery store. Family Dollar stores are also too small to kill mom and pop shops, which still thrive even near the FD stores. I know of a small pharmacy that has been around, and it has not been affected by Family Dollar's presence. I don't care if I hit the lottery, I'll still shop at Family Dollar. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/27/2008 10:40:49 PM | But you are demanding that prices go up to pay people more- you find nothing contradictory to this? Where do you draw the line? What if Walmart doubles the price of food, and thus the cost of living goes up, thus they need to increase their employees pay, thus they need more money, thus they increase the cost of food, and thus the cost of living goes up, and thus they increase what their employees pay......(ect)
So if food costs the middle class a little more it is not okay but paying wages that a person can not live on is? You say they should find another job. Finding a job takes time what are they supposed to do while there finding a job just contine barely getting by? I get tired of people like who think that people poor situations is all there fault and because of this they deserve what they get. This has happened before it is called slavery. You probably can not see that becasue you are so high up on your important perch thinking so highley of yourself. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/28/2008 12:47:15 AM | | amen. i work at walmart, and people, if they had another place to go, with cheaper prices, they would. thats why walmart is he number one retailer in the country...because half the country goes there to buy in bulk for a lot less. Ill say they could afford to pay their employees more...but when it comes to customers...yall have no idea how much we bend over backwards for you. so stop whining, and shop there...and if you arent going to shop there..then why even make a sloppy attempt to comment about something you know nothing about. idiot. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/28/2008 4:51:56 AM | >>>Family Dollar is a fine store
Why is it outrageous for Walmart to use Chinese labor, but its perfectly okay for another business to do so?
Does Family Dollar store pay their employees $15 an hour, as you are demanding Walmart should?
How does this address food? Clothing? I'm not familiar with that particular chain, but I've never seen a dollar store sell anything of the sort, except for food that, for all intents and purposes, is unhealthy for you if you're doing all your major shopping there.
>>>Family Dollar stores are also too small to kill mom and pop shops, which still thrive even near the FD stores.
And if all the business is transferred from Walmart to these Dollar Stores, wouldn't they increase their size to meet the increased consumer demand? If everyone who needed to spend their money at Walmart suddenly shifts their business to another company, how does that in turn create profit for Ma and Pa shops? You claim that supporting these businesses is somehow helping Ma and Pa shops- but transferring business from one company to another will not give these Ma and Pa shops the edge they need- they would STILL be too overpriced to compete- only instead of competing against Walmart, they'd be competing against Family Dollar! The only difference is, now instead of numerous people working a low paid, low skill job, there would be only a few, while the rest go without jobs.
You call that a solution?
>>>So if food costs the middle class a little more it is not okay but paying wages that a person can not live on is?
If they cannot live on it, then they should speak to their managers and be asked for an opportunity to prove their worth- whats so complicated about this? It's either prove to the business that you can earn more money by working hard and increasing your skills, making you more valuable to the company, or go somewhere where you have value. It is not Walmarts responsibility to protect those who cannot be bothered to better themselves and make more of themselves- it is your responsibility to make that leap- and if the business does not choose to reward you for your value, then its THEIR loss, and you should go somewhere where your value is rewarded.
If I choose to accept a job at $5 an hour, should I then suddenly earn $25 because I believe I need more money? Or do I actually have to be valuable to the company first?
And why are we at all discussing whether or not people have enough to live on in the first place? you yourself set that standard to $10 an hour, and full time Walmart employees have met and exceeded your standards.
>>>Finding a job takes time what are they supposed to do while there finding a job just contine barely getting by?
Both you, I, Walmart and that Walmart employee all pay taxes for a social safety net called 'social security', whereby you receive a check while you get back on your feet. Equally, we all pay taxes for government job resources, assisting people in finding new jobs that suit their needs. Not to mention, in utter dire situations, churches and charities are in place to further assist people in difficult times as those. I'd suggest those.
Stop bragging about how worthless and unable to control their lives people are, that they are pathetic and thus deserve a handout from the people who dared to be so selfish as to give them a job- they are in complete control, and we all pay money to help these people when they are not- they have the power, but they choose not to use it- they blame their business for their lack of intuitive and their lack of effort.
>>> I get tired of people like who think that people poor situations is all there fault and because of this they deserve what they get.
Then they should prove me wrong! What is so hard about this concept? If they have value, they should have to prove it, like everyone else. Anything else IS a handout- IS charity- IS taking the money away from people who work hard and achieve and give it to those who do not.
>>>This has happened before it is called slavery
BULLSHIT!
Slavery is when people do not have a choice- when its either show up for work or be beaten or killed- these people have a choice- either work and prove your value to earn value, or get minimalist handouts till you can develop or discover your value. These Walmart employees still have a choice- and the fact that you would express the disgusting idea that somehow Walmart employees are slaves- when not only there are tens of millions of Americans making less than them but also hundreds of millions of humans who still live with the shame of REAL SLAVERY is a vile disgusting twist of wordage that shows no compassion for the people who truly are slaves, who truly do not have freedom.
You think I live in a perch? Me? The guy who desires only to have grown adults be given the freedom to decide whom they do business with and whom they work for- that all things should be on mutual benefit and mutual agreement, and if there is none to be had that the party who does not agree should look elsewhere- If I'm on a perch, all I've been doing is preaching on how these people are NOT slaves, how they DO have a choice and DO have freedom, and no one, not you, I, the Government or Walmart, has the right to take that away or dictate how you must live your life, and it is only through the individual choice and mutual agreements is how all choices must be made- I am the one who is supporting slavery???!!
What kind of mess of contradictions does your doublespeak reveal? | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/28/2008 11:41:20 AM | I put my money where my mouth is - I will walk to the nearest local store before I will spend my money at a Wal-Mart. They are bad for the environment, bad for local businesses and bad for the soul. The prices are low now but they come with a bigger price - what happens after all the local businesses are closed and Wal-Mart is the only place we can get the things we need? We will be homogenized Wal-zombies, all wearing the same clothes and eating the same food - and I bet you will see those "cheap" prices climb - and we will have given them our tacit approval by allowing them to multiply and prosper.
Personally, I will be growing my own stuff by then, living in my self-sustaining earthship far from the maddening crowd content with the knowledge that I did not succumb to the Wal-Mart propaganda. {visualize me doing my superior dance}
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/28/2008 11:59:22 AM | | Although I am not a big fan of Wal-Mart. Every store has it's issues. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/28/2008 12:52:11 PM | | I like Walmart - back to school shopping is about 25% less than anywhere else, I recently needed to get all new camping equipment and Walmart was much less expensive after comparing to other retailers. I make a good living, but last I looked I too have to pay the higher gas prices, and don't really feel it is fair to compare the wage of the guy who says Hi and gives me a cart when I enter Walmart and the CEO of a Fortune 500 company who is an international business leader and responsible for providing/creating thousands of jobs. As a consumer who is price conscience, I will compare prices on products I purchase and pay the least expensive price. People can certainly live on the wages Walmart provides. Their issue is that it affords little else - the extras such as cell phone, digital cable, 4 bedroom house, vacations, etc. It's enough of an income to have a roof over your head and food on the table - in other words enough to live on. It's not Walmart's job to make sure you have the living and lifestyle you feel you deserve, it's yours to EARN it. Walmart's minimum wage is no different then any other company's minimum wage. Walmart does not set the minimum wage, our government does. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/28/2008 1:21:21 PM | | Wal-Mart's prices are so much cheaper because it can buy in massive bulk with which the local stores cannot compete. They drive away local color and create a homongenized world where they decide what type of pen we use or where our produce comes from. It is okay to comparison shop but cheapest is not always the best deal in the long run. You do have to look at the bigger picture if you want to have a vibrant commerical district in your community. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/28/2008 1:28:19 PM | People can certainly live on the wages Walmart provides. Their issue is that it affords little else - the extras such as cell phone, digital cable, 4 bedroom house, vacations, etc. It's enough of an income to have a roof over your head and food on the table - in other words enough to live on. It's not Walmart's job to make sure you have the living and lifestyle you feel you deserve, it's yours to EARN it. Walmart's minimum wage is no different then any other company's minimum wage. Walmart does not set the minimum wage, our government does.
Really that is why there has been so much discussion about Wall Mart not paying there staff enough. You obviously have not worked for Wall Mart or known someone who has. You should stick to talking about stuff you know. | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/28/2008 1:37:08 PM | | More reasons not to shop at Wal-Mart: Wal-Mart has a history for paying wages that are lower than the competitive wages for similar jobs in the area. They also work people just up to the full time mark (ie - 29.5 hours) so that they don't have to provide benefits. Why should employees feel loyalty to a company that has no intention of treating its employees fairly? | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/29/2008 5:14:53 AM | >>>Although I am not a big fan of Wal-Mart. Every store has it's issues.
Truest statement in this thread.
>>> They are bad for the environment
Care to elaborate?
>>>bad for the soul.
Care to elaborate?
>>>what happens after all the local businesses are closed and Wal-Mart is the only place we can get the things we need?
You honestly believe that that is possible? That ALL stores will disappear except Walmart? What about niche stores, and specialty shops? Car dealerships, and Restaurants? Hardware stores, formal wear, and furniture shops? What about stores that offer services, like deliveries? We could literally make a topic asking what Walmart doesn't offer, and it would be a never ending story- so, please, leave your radical exaggerations out of serious debate- Walmart isn't going to close down all the businesses- and, as addressed earlier, if stores do close because of a Walmart opening, it is because the consumers chose to do business there, not because Walmart gave them the opportunity to do business.
Stop damning Walmart for giving people choices- if you must, damn those who chose something you personally do not agree with
>>>and I bet you will see those "cheap" prices climb
OMG! What will we do! We've shot off our own foot!
No, wait- if their prices climb, wouldn't that give competing businesses a chance to.....compete? That if a Ma and Pa shop sells staples for $1.25 and Walmart raises their prices from $1 to $5, wouldn't it be rational to simply take your business elsewhere?
Once again, you're exaggerating as a means to manipulate people into agreeing with your beliefs. If Walmart raises their prices, we wouldn't be doomed to do business with them as they demand- we would simply take our business elsewhere.
>>>They drive away local color....where they decide what type of pen we use or where our produce comes from.
No, as previously mentioned, LOCALS drive away local color- otherwise, they'd buy from local shops. Stop demonizing the business- its the consumers you should be rightfully hating.
>>> It is okay to comparison shop but cheapest is not always the best deal in the long run.
And, sadly, not everyone has the ability to do superiority dances and spend more- some people need to save money- who are you to judge those who need the best deal as inferior? Who are you do demand people live in poverty to uphold your own standards?
>>>Really that is why there has been so much discussion about Wall Mart not paying there staff enough.
And how much is enough? Before you said ten dollars. Well, Full time workers make more than that. So you're just going to ignore this? Just going to blank out any fact that inconveniently opposes your own worldview- that reality is a secondary issue to what you're arguing? That if you tell a lie enough times, it becomes fact?
>>> Wal-Mart has a history for paying wages that are lower than the competitive wages for similar jobs in the area.
And if a grown adult takes the job, are they not responsible for their decisions? Where does personal responsibility come into your equation?
>>>. Why should employees feel loyalty to a company that has no intention of treating its employees fairly?
They shouldn't! If they are not getting the hours or the earnings they need, then they should quit- we shouldn't arbitrarily pay people more cause they really, really want it. We're not talking about children here- we're talking about adults who scoff at the idea of quitting their job because they do not have the effort to better themselves- should the company that DARES to give them employment thus be forced to pick up where the individual refuses? | |
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| Wally-Mart SUX
Posted: 7/29/2008 6:00:14 AM | Yawn....I see the anti-corporate, anti freedom morons are making their usual pitch against walmart. Would raising their prices and a importing a useless union shop into their midst make you feel better? And yes, this libertarian bought a number of guns....and ammo there. I'm sure I'll find you on THAT thread as well...pitching the idea that I don't need guns to protect myself from government/ thugs/ Avon saleswomen etc....
But seriously OP, you know that this is nothing but a flame war that you started. Perhaps our intrepid moderators will squash it flat. | |
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