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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 5/3/2007 8:11:52 AM | I agree with a person being able to use whatever washroom that is appropriate for whatever lifestyle choice of gender that they choose to live. So if a man is living his/her life as a woman, then by all mean's, join the long line, lol :)
I think that this is an issue that has alot more to do with tolerance and discrimination to those who are transgendered. I tend to think that if they felt "welcomed" into the washroom they would prefer to use, then this probably wouldn't be such an issue... Personally, I'd also like to see afew more family washrooms then anything else.
Not to get off topic...but with regards to uni-sexed washrooms, I thought that I would (hesitently) bring up that many rapes have taken place in restrooms all over. Now, not that I would want to give any solid guess, but wouldn't co-ed washrooms possibly present a greater risk, if certain types of men were allowed into a washroom with a woman? | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 5/4/2007 7:48:49 AM | | In California, they not needed. If your feeling fem one day, you use the ladies room. If the next, your feeling masculine, you use the dudes room. It's the law here, and I'm not making that one up. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 5/4/2007 8:11:30 AM | There are men's,....women's,.... men's w/change area's,....(women'susually do anyway)
there are family bathrooms,....handicapped,...both men's and wome's,...
isn't that enough?
The only comunial area's are the urinals in men's every other style have cubicals,..
who cares behid your cubical door what you have to pull up or down,..to get the job done?,...
doesn't it seem that sometimes we are looking for problems where none exist????,.... | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 5/19/2007 8:37:22 AM | Of all the posts I've read so far this one makes the most sense . Thank you Ooli for maybe giving more clarity to this entire issue.
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" I don't think the separation is for the comfort of the transgendered, but rather for the discomfort of heterosexuals who don't want to share their public bathroom space. It has a lot to do with misinformation and bigotry, as far as I'm concerned. Education might go a long way to promoting tolerance and understanding.
There was a big hoopla around a transgendered member of the Italian parliament who fought this kind of discrimination last year and won. Some of the women who shared the public bathroom with her didn't accept her as a woman and felt that a man was encroaching on their space. This brought up the whole debate about what makes a woman a woman and a man a man. If you have to have full breasts and a uterus to use a woman's washroom, then that is going to disqualify a lot of women who have had these items removed during surgery. lol I just find the whole issue silly.
If a transgendered person transitions (ie, lives life as the new gender...surgical status is irrelevant), they are entitled to be who they are without being "carded" for their birth certificate to prove legitimacy. I, myself, have never been asked to prove my gender for access to a public washroom before. I believe the transgendered deserve the same right to dignity that I have on this issue. They are not pretending to be another sex. They simply are that sex, regardless of whether nature gifted them with the right sexual organs. Gender is determined by so many more factors than your genitals."
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I wonder when people will listen to themselves or read what they've written before hitting the 'post message' button. Some of the answers and/or comments posted here are quite silly and immature. Comments like "what about people who are short or drive expensive cars etc...." give me a break. The issue here has to do with the comfort levels of all parties directly involved at the time of occurance. I personally have had to deal with this issue.
I used to frequent the only gay bar in my city. I would go ther every now and then to hang out with a few friends, have a couple of drinks, dance to a few songs and if necessary , go to the washroom to do my business whether it be for a quick pee or other bodily function, maybe check my lipstick or other makeup in the mirror, wash my hands, (BTW, have you ever seen how many people don't wash their hands after using the public washroom? like eeew) and return to my table. I was dressed up in one of my favourite outfits, had my hair all coiffed, my nails painted. .. You get the picture. In my mind and in my eyes I am a total woman. The male part of me is buried not just under my clothes but in my psyche. The fact that I was born with plumbing different than what I prefer is unfortunate to say the least. I was at the bar one night after they had relocated and athe athmosphere had changed. I needed to use the washroom and no sooner had I walked in and I was told by the bouncer to leave. He even addressed me as "sir" how rude. I may not always be passable but I am presenting myself for all at the bar to see as a woman, nothing more, nothing less. Ther are very masculine looking women who dress as men and have the option of using either without hassle or incident. Hell some of them look more masculine than some body builders or men that work in the constructon or other once male dominated type of job. How is it that a place that is designed to accommodate people with alternative lifestyles be so intolerant of trans-type of people whatever they may choose to call themselves? I do NOT need to be remided by telling me to use the men's washroom that I am not that which I most desire to be. Surgery or other methoods are not always an option for a lot of people. The people who have cynical or immature views can't possibly understand the plight that we trans-type people go through. How is it that a woman can go into a store, go to the men's or boys' department, pick out a few articles of clothing including socks and underwear, proceed to the cash, pay for her purchases and leave without so much as a funny look or giggle? Yet if a man should do the same, especially when it comes to underwear they get strange looks.
The issue here is TOLERANCE. When people go to the washroom it is to do their business, hopefully wash their hands and get out. They are not there to get their jollies or to be pervs. I hink I'd be more concerned with the communal washrooms anyway. Since anyone can use them how secure can people be not knowing whether or not the next person entering isn't some kind of pedophile?
What of those people who look more androgynous. They featured something like this on the Rikki Lake show. If a person needs to use the public restroom why should anyone have to prove their gender identity to anyone especially if they are dressed in clothing that clearly identifies them as a man or a woman. Never mind if their facial features are a bit more obscure or unclear?
Everyone in life deserves to have happiness and contentment in their lives . So long as a person's lifestyle does not involves children or cause anyone to do things against their will or are a crime against humanity or cause an extreme danger to their health or well being. If a person is most happy dressing in the gender and portraying themsel as such opposite to the gender thanthey were born with, who has has the right to say to them "no you may not use this washroom because you don't look like what you say you are"
when all they want to do is relieve themselves.
Furthermore, how would the men out there feel, if for all sakes and purposes, a woman were to walk into the men's washroom while you wer standing at the urinal? The first thing you'd say is "this is the men's washroom"
Supposing the 'woman' walked in and you'd know right away that 'she' was a 'he'? Not everyone would react with indifference. Some might get quite upset and make derogatory comments whilst others might get violent. How many trans-type people out there have been beaten to death because of a society that still has to wakw up and just accept each other's lifestyle?
To have a separate washroom could alleviate a lot of trouble this way.
It is unfortunte that not all places can have just 2 unisex single tiolet facilities. I'm sure that theer are building codes and bylawys in place that state that large enough facilities must exist to accomodate x- number of people. And as for MY tax dollars. Yes believe it or not, Trans-type of people also pay taxes> I'd rather have MY Money go to a system that is beneficial to the good of the people rather than those government bigwigs taht feel they deserve a 20% raise in their annual salary because they "worked hard" for it.
Thank you
P.S, I think when KISSCGIRL told people to look up the word "empathy" I'm sure part of her was being properly sarcastic as well as encouraging people to be a little less ignorant and maybe even be a bit mre tolerant. Not everyone knopws the meanings to words especially 'empathy" and for the greater part "ignorant". | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 5/19/2007 8:51:24 AM | " I don't think the separation is for the comfort of the transgendered, but rather for the discomfort of heterosexuals who don't want to share their public bathroom space.
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am I the only one to see the obvious,.....share their public bathroom space.
particular the,..... PUBLIC SPACE,...bit?,....
it's not like you have to share your cubicle,...
some places only have one and everyone has to take turns,....
this is a problem,....why agin?????
I could care less what sexual predisposition the person ahead of me has,....
my only issue is he/she/ or they, move it so I can go,....
why do some of you care again? I just don't get it,....
gee people if your that fussy,....cross your legs 'till you get home,.... | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 5/19/2007 8:58:51 AM | | When I'm at or in a bathroom I only have one matter of business. To get relief in a safe non messy way. Period. As long as there are cubicles or one person per room, I don't care who uses it. Bottom line, human nature. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 12:16:30 AM | | You don't care? I don't care what you think either. So i gues you can go eat it. Transsexuals people who live their life according to their desired gender and is on hormones replacement therapy can go to the washroom that matches their desired gender? You don't like it? Too bad. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 12:28:01 AM | | And the answer to this topic is NO, we wouldn't need transgender washroom if we don't have so many bigots who like to hate and laugh at the expense of other's misery and struggles. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 9:33:03 AM | Transgendered is a really, really, tiny, small percentage of the population anywhere. Do you understand the municipal and state/province costs to build a third bathroom for a percentage that would next to never use it because there still are so few to use one?
If your having problems with self idenity and aren't sure which restroom you should use, stay out of them till you make a decision. It is that easy. Go locate a port-a-poty that is always a unisex toilet to use. Other wise, go before you leave home! 
Consider the facts; if your a guy dressing as a girl and your busted/found out in a women's rest room by a women/women with little gilrs, you may end up in jail. If your a woman trying to be a guy and are busted/found out in the guys restroom, the worst that will happen is you'll be asked for sexual favors! 
Untill the percentage rate climbs for transgendered who still have their original equiptment and are in drag costume, staying out of the women's restroom is the best thing for the guys. For gals dressing as guys, they can get away with going into a guys restroom and using a toilet. Pissing at urnal will give them away though. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 9:44:04 AM | | How about transgender parking spaces too? I mean its not easy for men to walk in stilettos, have you watched some of them weeble wobble and careen around the side walk? They should be given closer access to their shopping so they are at less risk of taking a header and injuring themselves. Show some sensitivity and tolerance please. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 61 | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 2:46:29 PM | @ender, yah, i want the pedophiles in the unisex bathroom with my kids. pfftttt.
Some places have one bathroom for wheelchair/family (ie parents and children of opposite sexes), a catch-all type of bathroom that offers privacy. A single bathroom..that's where the transgender can go, we just need more of those type of facilities. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 3:09:16 PM | Wow... just when I think I've heard the dumbest thing ever.. someone comes up and amazes me with something even dumber.
this falls under the "don't ask don't tell" mentality. let's say a woman is dressed as a man. she goes into the men's room and uses a stall. no harm done. a man dressed as a woman goes to the ladies room. do your business and get out. what the hell is so hard to understand about this?
I COMPLETELY agree.
The answer to the OP's original question.
NO, they don't need their own washrooms.
Matter of fact that could be considered DISCRIMINATORY couldn't it?
No different than if you made washrooms for different ethnic groups, or washrooms for gays/lesbians, etc.
Unisex washrooms I'm not too sure if I care for. Only for the fact that I've actually heard/read horror stories of how much more filthy many women (and their washrooms) are more then men and their washrooms.
Plus men are usually quicker when using the washroom, especially when it's just for urination. Unisex washrooms would just hold things up, especially if it was just made for 1 person at a time.
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 9:23:31 PM | Make a decision?
are you STUPID?
Transgender people have no confusion about which washroom they should use, thanks for showing your ignorance once again.
Building a transgender washroom is for PEOPLE LIKE YOU who are too ignorant and hateful and we don't want to have people like YOU to HURT or ATTACK or INSULT transgender people when they are using the washroom.
So don't ask transgender why they need a washroom for themselves, ASK yourself and OTHERS bigots why they want to seperate transgender people from others. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 9:30:35 PM | | And please learn to READ next time, many trans people have already stated that they are not confused about what gender they are, maybe you are confused about this whole subject and should think before you post instead of coming off as a complete moron. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 66 | |
| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 10:36:33 PM |
@ender, yah, i want the pedophiles in the unisex bathroom with my kids. pfftttt.
Some places have one bathroom for wheelchair/family (ie parents and children of opposite sexes), a catch-all type of bathroom that offers privacy. A single bathroom..that's where the transgender can go, we just need more of those type of facilities
Hey, where do you live? I'd like to know where they have magic "pedophile detecting doors" that don't let peopel walk into a bathroom unless they have a high moral standard.
Oh wait....you just posted before you thought. Those pedophiles can walk into ANY bathroom they want. Your standpoint is just outdated and ridiculous. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 10:54:49 PM | @ender, actually no, i throught and then i posted
"that magical place with the pedophile dectetors', yes it exists, it's called the womens washroom
what do you mean they can walk in there? they can't walk in there undected like they can in a mens washroom, unless its empty. for every child whose been molested in a womens washroom, i''ll show you 20 who have in a mens washroom
you do not find female pedophiles...don't quote me that 1 or 2 percent exception, you know it's true
thats where i take my sons and daughters of a certain age...womens washroom...and i dont want men in there
-the end- | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 11:10:55 PM | I used to use the single unit bathroom for the disabled people, but many places only have male and female washroom.
Now that I am 23 and have been on hormone for several years, I have always used the female washroom and if you don’t like it, you can report me to the police, but I have a medical record proving that I am taking a medical transition and I have the legal right to use the female bathroom. I never get “read” as a male , but anyways, I wouldn’t care, I would love to see the bigots get told in their faces that I can use the female washroom and that they can’t do crap about it.
If people think I will go to male washroom , they are out of their freaking mind. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/5/2007 11:58:04 PM | man, the cost for a business to add a 3rd bathroom? especially a small business, like a gas station? Some of those barely have room for the 2 bathrooms they have. To add one space that will only get used a couple times a month....then see the cost of it being passed on to us through the products they sell....no thanks.
And i disagree with the line urinals are obsolete, lol. I got a chuckle from that one. urinals are the ONLY reason the men's lines are so short. And that fact has probably helped countless brave women over the years, as they ran into the empty stall, glared at by all the women in the long women's line.
I used to sneak my gf into the men's room at big events like football games and county fairs, where the women's line was unbelievable, I'm saying like 50 women in line. The guys would stroll right by the women, whistling Dixie, walk in to the men's room and walk out before the women's line had advance even one person. Man we got the evil eye. Well I sure wasn't going to stand for an hour while my gf suffered. So i escorted her in to the men's. No one would even look at her, since i was there. You should have heard the grumbling from the women when we came out. Oh well, THEIR problem. My gf was happy lol.
I notice the younger gals, in their 20s, have no problem using men's rooms at the dance clubs. The guys room at one club has 3 urinals, and a large handicap accessible stall. Almost everytime I go in there, I hear girl's voices in the stall. Two girls go in at once usually, sometimes one. I've even waved girls in that looked like they were in dire need...held the door open and said 'stalls open if you want to use it' 'THANK YOU!!' is the reply I get. The only people who object are the bouncers, if they happen to catch it, strictly for legal reasons. But if no bouncer, you will often see girls in the men's line up, the guys will willingly bypass the stall so the ladies can have it. And for all the years I've been going I have never seen a guy act perverted, or try to sneak a peak. It's probably because the doors to the mens and womens actually face each other. The womens door is propped open by the line up, and there is usually a small lineup at the mens, enough to prop their door open too. So, none of the guys is going to act like a creep, in front of 20 girls in the hallway....girls that they will be trying to dance with a little later. Keeps em honest so to speak.
Last time, two girls were at the mirror checking their makeup after they used the stall! That's getting REALLY comfortable. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 70 | |
| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:00:49 AM |
@ender, actually no, i throught and then i posted
"that magical place with the pedophile dectetors', yes it exists, it's called the womens washroom
what do you mean they can walk in there? they can't walk in there undected like they can in a mens washroom, unless its empty. for every child whose been molested in a womens washroom, i''ll show you 20 who have in a mens washroom
you do not find female pedophiles...don't quote me that 1 or 2 percent exception, you know it's true
thats where i take my sons and daughters of a certain age...womens washroom...and i dont want men in there
-the end-
Yeah....well I guess it must be ALOT different where you are from than it is where I live. I can't count the number of times I've seen men walk into a woman's restroom, women use the mens room, or anything else. I guess you just live in a different part of the world than I do.
Yes, you find plenty of female pedphiles. Just like you find female rapists. You must be one of those women that lives in constant fear of men. Its fine, my mother suffers from a phobia of the male species. I understand why you are the way you are, but you need to recognize the fact that your fear is causing you to speak irrationally. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/6/2007 4:40:56 AM | Any woman, or anyone who looks like a woman, who want's to use the Men's room while I'm there, is welcome to as far as I'm concerned.
For practical purposes, I'd say you should use the bathroom of the gender you're trying to be.
But, you can always use the Men's room when in doubt. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/6/2007 5:09:09 AM | ok my daughter is gay and we have had a conversation about this. from what she tells me i can understand the whole idea of the need for these wash rooms and can see how they would solve the problem of people conplaining about males in the female toilets for example. lets be honest when these people do get dressed up as a member of the opporsit sex it is sometimes EXTREAMLY ovious. now in gay clubs ect this aint an issue however in the local pub not every one understands. that said from what my daughter tells me these people want to be accepted by socity as members of the other sex and dont always want it advertising(in some cases getting very upset if people figure it out) so even if these facilitys were available ...........would they be used??????????
why dont we do something differant and instead of lots of people who dont know much about it sat around having debates try asking the people concerned if this is something they would use or even want.
lets be fair these people spend a lot of time and effort trying to blend in. using these cubicals seams to make a mockery of that. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/6/2007 8:12:03 AM | When I enter a public washroom, it's for one purpose; to take care of business and leave. I don't socialise with people in public washrooms, and I don't care who comes in when I'm there, as long as their purpose for being there is the same as mine, to use the bathroom and leave. The OP asked the question,"Is society going too far with this?"
I think so. | |
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| Transgender washrooms?? Are they needed?
Posted: 6/6/2007 9:17:25 AM | From my own experience, some women do socialise in the public washroom, but not the men's.
And it is true , many transsexuals wouldn't even use the transgender washrooms because they might as well wear a sign that read “I am a transsexual.”
I know some transsexuals who can pass as females and it’s not just about “dressing up in woman’s clothes”, it’s about having a female face and body after being on estrogen for several years and some trans women who still looks like a a badly dressed drag queen and they face more danger when they enter the *wrong* washroom. | |
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