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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/27/2007 9:29:42 PM | You're right. Thats the debate- the mother and other non-bio children benefit from the "improved" standard of living (in some cases)- is this fair?
Legally though, you are absolutely right. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/27/2007 9:45:40 PM |
However I do not think it should be counted on reliably as the CP's regular income. I also think that it depends on % of custody and visitation, or ratio. 50% custody
I agree 100%, as I have my kids 50%, pay what is table amount to the ex, yet she is able to buy a new car... go on 2 week bed & breakfast trips... (when the kids are with me), and has a new bf that "chooses" not to work because I literally support the household.
But, I do agree if each parent has the children 50% of time, then the cs should be a minumum amount and based on if there is a huge difference in the parents income.
^^^ And BTW... she makes virtually the same as me...
Some day the gravy train will run out... I only hope my kids will realize this as they grow older. Its just not worth the huge sums of cash that the courts and lawyers chew up to even try and fight it. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/27/2007 11:05:21 PM | | well i just came out of my battle with my ex and i got joint shared custody. there is no child support but if tere was to be and i was to go for it she would have to pay me because she makes more than i do. But it was never about the money, it was just about what was fair and that was half time with my son. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 2:44:18 AM | Yea I even know the CP to minimize there work week due to the fact that money now is coming in to supplement there income, Psssst even when the child is in school and there's no need for the CP to be home except to watch Oprah, or run the roads. WTF? | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 3:02:37 AM | I admire those parents who pay their child support every month...it only shows how responsible you are.
Tattat: in my case, if my ex paid child support, i will do the same, minimize my work week...even the kids are in school...remember, household work alone can take so much of your time, plus taking care of the children and all their needs. Cp needs a break too. Try paying a nanny to take care of the children and the housework if you have custody...you will pay more than what you are paying in child support. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 4:34:38 AM | But not every guy will make great money and it cheaper to live as afamily the to support to households. The concept of maintaining a house for the kids on what SHOULD HAVE happened is rediculous.
Why is it that only women are seen as potentially low income earners?
In the last few years I compete with women for the same jobs, why should they be at home after the kids go to school? | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 7:44:32 AM | | In my opinion, it doesent matter what my ex does with the money I give her, so long as my little girl is feed, clothed, has a reasonble home life at her mothers, I don't care what specific piece of paper is used to pay for my kids meals, lights, heat, etc (after all, money is just paper.) To that end, part of the CS I pay is I pay for my ex's vehicle insurance simply because when we were together, it came out of my checking account, and there hasent been any real reason to change it. Hell, I even pay the medical/dental ins. for my ex step daughter as well as my own daughter, its only a couple of dollers more a month, so why not. I have some friends who get bent outta shape because they find out their ex's used their CS to pay for their car loan or what have you, but really its money in, money out it dosent matter where it comes from. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 9:16:54 AM |
Tattat: in my case, if my ex paid child support, i will do the same, minimize my work week...even the kids are in school...remember, household work alone can take so much of your time, plus taking care of the children and all their needs. Cp needs a break too.
Sounds like my ex.... she can afford to work part-time. Between me and Child Tax Credit she makes about $15,000 a year tax free.
That attitude bugs the hell out of me. She chooses to work less and it costs me more. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 10:54:41 AM |
She chooses to work less and it costs me more
This is exactly the problem! Before I got sole custody we were 50/50 (week on/week off), and I paid support to my ex. She CHOSE not to work, and even had the odacity to mention to several people on many occasions that she was "financially stable enough to not have to work". All of this 'financial stabilty' was due to GST credit, CTB, and tax free child support.
"Child support"...... I don't think so. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 1:20:10 PM | The money I'm *supposed* to be getting from my husband, while mostly will go directly to the kids (diapers, clothes, etc), I will certainly use it if I need it for something like car insurance, rent, etc. However, in my case, I'm awarded more per week than what is required by the state - the judge told me to think of it as spousal support, even though it's "child" support. Plus, if I can't pay car insurance - then I can't get the kids to their doctor's appointments. If I can't pay rent, they don't have a roof over their heads. As long as that money is going to SOMETHING that benefits the kids, then I see no problem with it. If I was using it for drugs, alcohol, or to pamper myself with clothes, days at the spa, etc - then I would hope someone would hit me upside the head.
Ideally, I'd love to put all the child support money aside and use it as a college fund. Right now, that's not possible - but I hope that some day it will be.
I certainly see why NCP's would want the money to go directly to the children. However, if the NCP's were the ones recieving the money, I bet 95% of them would change their tune. But, as CP's, we need to be in bigger houses, have bigger cars, and buy more food than we would have to if we were just NCP's. If we didn't have those extra expenses, I'm sure we'd want the money to go directly to the children as much as the NCP's do! | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 1:21:33 PM | Good question Spider. I would have to say that both views are correct at the same time.
For instance lets say a 1 bedroom place is x dollars a month and a 2 bedroom is x+y dollars. In my mind it stands to reason that each parent is responsible for 1/2 of y dollars. The NCP shouldn't be on the hook for 1/2 of x+y as if there were no children involved the CP would still be solely responsible for the x portion anyway. That is still a household expense that is directly related to the child. Same goes for utilities and so on. Now I might be a little bit put off if it was used for say a $3000 kitchen table, since I fail to see how that improves the well-being of my child.
Could it be a "He said, She said" thing, where both are trying to make the same point and neither is communicating it effectively? | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 2:33:58 PM |
if I can't pay car insurance - then I can't get the kids to their doctor's appointments. If I can't pay rent, they don't have a roof over their heads
Let's see....and if you didn't eat, you wouldn't be able to care for them either. Just how far does the justification go? Where exactly, does YOUR responsability enter into the equation? And if you didn't have your meal ticket, you would still have to eat, you would still have rent, you would still have to insure your car. Ths is exactly what's wrong with the system, and the inane way that CP's justify it.
And no, I don't receive child support from my ex. I waived it. I decided I wanted children, and I will assume financial resposablility for them AND myself. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 3:03:45 PM | " bet 95% of them would change their tune. But, as CP's, we need to be in bigger houses, have bigger cars, and buy more food than we would have to if we were just NCP's. If we didn't have those extra expenses, I'm sure we'd want the money to go directly to the children as much as the NCP's do!"
I can not agree with the above statement since most (yeah I know generalization) NCP's that I know have separate bedrooms for their child(ren), have the same size cars and share in the expenses for the extra activities. I will agree about the food although I have found in my experience that it is very difficult to shop for one as compared to having a family. Allot of items which are available in bulk at significant discounts would simply go bad at my place.
Lastly, not sure why you would need a bigger vehicle since when the NCP has the kids wouldn't they be transporting the same number of children?
"remember, household work alone can take so much of your time, plus taking care of the children and all their needs. Cp needs a break too. "
Like others have stated above it is this attitude that does bother me the most since I work more than full time, still have time to clean the hosue, help with homework when she is with me and drive here to and from her activities. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 3:39:49 PM | I think I am falling in like with you Fly LOL
I don't even need to post, you are saying exactly what I would say.
Everyone says how expensive it is to raise a child - I really don't see it. As Fly said, I would have to pay rent/mortgage and buy food for myself anyways, and NOONE is going to tell me a two year old eats $100 a week. Daycare is the most expensive financial burden, but if the CP is low income they get subsidized anyways. If it's $500 a month, each parent pays half. Some expenses you pay for because YOU have the children full time. Can't afford a car? You couldn't afford it without kids either. Take the bus to appointments like everyone else does who can't afford a car. The point of this view is, you should not NEED support to feed, clothe and house your children. If you cannot perhaps the NCP should have custody. What does a parent do if they don't get support one month? Starve their kids? Get evicted? These statements concern me. "You" by the way is a generic "you", not a you specifically. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 3:57:25 PM | Lyrical; Fly:
I have to agree with both of you on this... I can understand the argument for having slightly more money left over if you didn't say need to rent a 2 bdrm as opposed to a 1bdrm.. And that couple hundred a month could easily pay for insurance on a vehicle...
And the saving of food that we spend on our children could probably cover the gas for a couple of weeks (maybe less with current rates.. LOL) But the point being there would def be a savings if the children were not present. As we would not be buying other sorts of things such as clothing and what not.
But as I mentioned before thats why I think you need to sit down, budget out the realistic cost of a child in an average month... And then the CP and NCP should be splitting that cost. I know my growing son can easily go through about 100-150 in food a month when you factor in stuff like school lunches, and all that jazz.. So my EX should realistically be expected to pay for about 50-75 of that bill..
Of course there are other bills as well... But this is where you need to learn to compromise on things with your EX.. Most NCP's at the end of the day want to ensure the money is being put towards their child. And not into other things.
I can understand the argument from CP's that all these things are required in order to get the kids around ext.. However are you paying anymore in insurance costs due to having your child in the car... No.. Is your payment for your car higher due to your child.. No.. As far as transport costs go, the only thing I can truly see being that much higher are fuel costs depending on the things and events you attend with your child. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 5:06:57 PM | i do not understand how is it a problem for the NCP if CP cut working hours per week..as long as the children are well taken care of and all their needs are being met.
Money isn't everything. The time you spent with the children are more important than anything. ..it's priceless...I will trade any job in the world just to be with my kids..so think about it.....kids are 24/7 job..it's the most important job in the world, all other job comes second. If the situations been reversed, It will not and it will never bug me how the CP spent the money as long as the children are well taken care of and all their needs.
when my ex and I were together I was the only one who does all the housework, I work full time outside the house and inside the house after picking up the kids in the day care , paid all the bills, and got nothing from him, now that doesn't change...dont you think i don't need a little break?
"That attitude bugs the hell out of me. She chooses to work less and it costs me more."
so tell us how it cost you more since there are child support guidelines and it is based on your income. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 5:12:04 PM | | Hey if you can afford to stay home and your kids are provided for, and my tax dollars and your exes are not supporting you, good for you! But I have little sympathy for the rest of your comment, why should your ex pay for your "little break"? The issue the money your ex pays is for child support not for your recreation. Why should you decide not to work to perhaps support your children equally to your ex? Having kids is not a pass for a vacation of you can't meet your fiscal responsibilities concerning them. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 5:23:59 PM | Hey if you can afford to stay home and your kids are provided for, and my tax dollars and your exes are not supporting you, good for you! But I have little sympathy for the rest of your comment, why should your ex pay for your "little break"? The issue the money your ex pays is for child support not for your recreation
lyrical girl, you are out of context..you are not understanding, "why should my ex pay for my little break?" my ex don't even pay a single penny for child support. I work my whole life, single handedly supporting the children and never stayed home...cutting 5 work hours per week to make sure the kids are well taken care of is a big deal ? do you think staying home is a recreation to you?... | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 5:29:17 PM | Sorry didn't know that, only posted on what I did know, I thought you were receving support.
That being said no I do not think staying home with kids is recreation, but do believe some parents think having kids and having someone else foot the bill for them to do is could be construed as them having the mindset it's a paid vacation. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 6:02:26 PM | | Child Support ... what's that? My ex too was/is under a court order to pay. He has gone to jail a few times. Pays whatever they make him pay to get out of jail and then the pattern continues. What makes me really upset is that he refuses to even give the kids emotional support, which IMO is 100x more important than "things". I have raised them on my own and I will continue to do so. IF/When I do get any child support it is used on activities (softball, swim team, music lessons, or the latest "gadget" that they have been begging for) for the kids. I bust my tail to make sure they have all of the things they "need", it is nice to have help with some of the things they want. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 6:21:09 PM |
I bust my tail to make sure they have all of the things they "need", it is nice to have help with some of the things they want.
Great statement. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 7:03:27 PM |
Let's see....and if you didn't eat, you wouldn't be able to care for them either. Just how far does the justification go? Where exactly, does YOUR responsability enter into the equation? And if you didn't have your meal ticket, you would still have to eat, you would still have rent, you would still have to insure your car. Ths is exactly what's wrong with the system, and the inane way that CP's justify it.
Add food to that list too! My point wasn't the exact things I use the child support for (mind you, I haven't recieved a single penny from my ex yet, and they are in the process of garnishing wages and suspending his liscense). My point was that there are certain things that we have to provide, that we wouldn't necassarily have to provide if we weren't the CP's. Perhaps I used the wrong things as examples - but my point still stands that there are certain things that child support can go to, to help provide a better life for the children. There are definately certain things I wouldn't have if I didn't have the kids, and it would certainly lessen the amount I'm paying out every month. In an ideal world, I'd be able to pay for all of that plus some without the help of child support. Unfortunately, until my children are in school, I just can't work enough hours without ending up paying more for babysitting than I am making.
Since I have yet to recieve any child support, I'm not justifying anything. I'm just saying that using child support on things like that, is much less of a problem than spending child support on a new kitchen, or a day at the spa, etc.
When my ex starts to pay, I will only be getting $200 a month for 3 children (all under 3). I will certainly be paying for more than half of everything they need. Don't talk to me about my responsibility - I'm taking ALL of the responsibility. Does it really matter if the money goes to car insurance or a new outfit for the kids? If that money wasn't there, and the bills could NOT get paid, would it be okay to use the money for bills then? The money WOULD be there for the benefit for the child - and a house/groceries/car are all things that directly or indirectly effect the children's life.
I can not agree with the above statement since most (yeah I know generalization) NCP's that I know have separate bedrooms for their child(ren), have the same size cars and share in the expenses for the extra activities. I will agree about the food although I have found in my experience that it is very difficult to shop for one as compared to having a family. Allot of items which are available in bulk at significant discounts would simply go bad at my place.
Lastly, not sure why you would need a bigger vehicle since when the NCP has the kids wouldn't they be transporting the same number of children?
Perhaps in most situations, but certainly not mine. I have 3 children, and my ex currently has a room mate (and the room mate's child). They live in a 2 bedroom appartment (the child is sleeping on the floor in the dining room). He doesn't have car seats, nor a car to fit all of the children. Neither does his room mate. So, perhaps a lot of NCP's need to accomadate for the children, I know plenty who don't - and my ex sure doesn't. So, I DO have to have a bigger car, and a bigger place to live. Plus, when you have young children, there is a huge difference between paying for diapers only on weekends, and paying for diapers for every day of the week (same with clothes, etc). Perhaps when they're older, it's different. But with 3 children under 3, and an ex who doesn't accomadate for his children, I think I may be justified to use child support for car insrurance (for my bigger car!) if I needed to (and like I said before, I hope I don't ever need to - but I think I would be justified to do it if there was a problem). | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/28/2007 10:56:56 PM | In Canada, any child support order made after 1997 is taxed by the payor, not the payee, as this has been deemed a "burden" on the reciever.
I had no say in wheter or not i got custody of my children. I requested 50% she agreed to 50%, and then.. every other weekend was what i ended up getting.
No I propose a simple solution to make this process fair to everyone.
The payments should be made to the CHILD. In the childs name. Into an account that the CP has access to.
The NCP does not get taxed for this payment.
The CP does not get taxed for this payment.
The CHILD gets taxed for this payment.
In Canada you do not pay taxes on income under $20k. (And if a child is getting more then 20k a year in child support.. he can afford a tax accountant to find him some shelters).
So teh child would NOT be taxed on this income either.
The CP has free reign to withdraw from this account to pay rent, hydro, food, clothes, etc etc FOR THE CHILD. And have an occasional random audit for the C P to show that the costs were reasonable for the expences claimed.
Does this not make sence?
As it is, i am paying 50% income taxes, then another 24% of my before tax income to child support. Thats 75% of my income that i will never see, while adding 32k to her income that she doesn't have to pay taxes on.
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/29/2007 12:10:44 AM | ^^^interesting idea
I have been on both sides of this argument (to a degree)
I think that the Child support should be used for the care and maintainace of the children to a reasonable standard which they are use to. If daddy was a doctor that ran off with a student nurse and left spoild wife and kids, he should have to help maintain that.
I think that family issues and often the court and justice system in genral needs to take thing on a case-by-case basis far more often.
You can't paint "dead-beat doctor daddy" and "caring involved 50%custody dad" with the same brush.
While at the same time I didn't make these babies on my own, and I didn't plan to be alone, so yeah he has to step up and help out. I (foolishly) put my life on hold to be the stay-at-home, get up at 5am everymoring to make breakfast and lunchfor him, living in nowhere alberta wife/mother. I was in the process of joining the RCMP when we met. We had a commitment that failed and he is responsible for half of the childs care.
That said, basing the child support guidelines on Gross income is stupid, nobody takes home anything before the Gov gets their cut and that is not what people accutally get.
Child support needs to be much more personal. I can tell you as a single mom, you learn to cut corners real quick and my children do not cost 400$ permonth each. I belive that single parents have a responsiblity to live as cost effectivly as possible, if your counting on the other parent to take thier responsiblities seriously too.
I know that when my ex was shelling out 100s per pay cheque (to make up for back pay) it was pretty hard to watch "her" drive her brand new car downtown, while I and our children walked. It really pissed me off when we would get to visit the little guy and see his older brother wearing brand new clothes and him in raggedy old hand-me-downs. I knew that her other son's father wasn't paying support and that she worked part-time-minimum-wage ...so,..whos money paid for the other kids upkeep?
Anyways enough ranting
good night.  | |
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