| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/29/2007 9:49:27 PM | | Here's my own little soap box speech. Forcing an ex to pay child support is wrong on so many levels there isn't enough room to list them all. It's not even a gender thing. I've seen many deadbeat moms fighting tooth and nail to avoid paying. I've been on the receiving end of CS and I know that it was more than was needed for the child and he would have had the same life style with out it. People need to be honest and admit CS is really about revenge on the ex. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/29/2007 9:54:04 PM | It can be negotiated in some states. Fortunately, you are level headed and fair enough to allow him to negotiate that piece of the puzzle with. I think I can speak from experience, not a ladies are quite so easy to deal with. I know many men who experience the scorn and wrath of the evil being! LOL!
I know for a fact my ex's husband would like nothing more than to see me driving a 10 year old car and living in a studio apartment if he could get it his way. He defines himself by the things he has and that is why they are a good pair. Many new guys are very jealous of the ex. Especially when the ex and spouse communicate for the good of the child on a very routine basis. Thus, he would NEVER allow me to take the deduction. I have even offered to compensate them even up in cash for the loss they would incur monetarily. I also offered to stash all the extra cash in a college fund so they would know I was not benefitting personally. Still no dice. This again is nothing more than vendictive selfishness as I could ave nearly 2500-3500 a year in taxes for my son's benefit.
I applaud you for you level headedness and putting the child's well being before your own personal financial gain. I wish there were more like you out there or that I would have found one with similar qualities. I have learned from my bad choices trust me on this one! LOL! | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/29/2007 10:12:44 PM | One thing that is forgotten......Child support it is a Order
People this is a court order signed by a judge............. for the support of the child/children living in the home of a custodial parent, to help support the home/well being of the child!
which means Custodial parent gets the $$$ for:
care of the child
food of child
home of child
clothes for the child
meds for the child
bill of the home of the child......this is just scraping the surface. I could go on....
The $$ is going out to the child in more than just mundane/material ways. People need to do more thinking before they have children, of all the possibilities and scenarios.
Pay the support if you have to, this is after all your CHILD be a parent and step up. If the child is suffering and being mis-treated then stop whining about support and get custody of YOUR child. If not suck it up, this child was made and is here for a reason, try to contribute to that and not focus on the ex and what he or she is being paid. If your focus is on the ex than you need to take a step back, realign and get on track with, you don't have to care what you ex does that is why they are an EX, all that matters is that your child is happy, healthy and loves both parents and is not caught in the middle!
I am not saying this to offend any one........so don't send me hate mail..... I am just giving a legal view tring to be impartial. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 4:05:54 AM | | erm, child support is nothing but revenge on the ex? What is in your drinking water? I have been on both sides and it is for the child and the costs of raising that child. Why shouldn't both Parents contribute, they both created the child? When I was paying my support was paid on time every month, for more than the chart amount plus extras. Now, as the custodial Parent, the ex should be paying me. Raising kids isn't cheap, so why in the Hell should one Parent be forced to carry all the expense when both are working and can share the expense? | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 5:11:26 AM | I see all the references to "just get the child"; It isn't quite that easy. Actually it is nearly impossible and it did cost a small fortune to try. Had I known the facts up front, I may not have even went that route. People aren't whining, they are porbably just getting their frustration of the situation out of them so they can feel more positive and keep the thoughts and feelings from spilling over into their child's life. A sort of therapy. I also think some get good info from the boards like the guy who stated the rules around the time Dad's have the child which reduces the support or vice versa so he will be aware of the custody/visitation angles impacting money which may be the CP's main motivator in the negotiations. I like the idea of knowing the details and having them to at least investigate or to look out for.
I can tell you when the custodial parent is getting in essence a house payment plus utilities payment tax free, there will be a monster fight because a number of custodial parents put their desire for the cash before the needs and health of the child. If it were as easy and equitable for the parents who experience these things to get the children and remove them from exposure to these situations, trust me you wouldn't see all this nonsense and frustration aired here. The courts bias to what is best for the child isn't necessarily reality. The problem is the preponderance of evidence and the burden of proof is on the NCP.
For instance, no one knows the effects of a child being moved from school to school year after year, but I would guess it is not a good one and after say 4 or 5 moves this should be evaluated. Also education level (one criteria and may be bad example) and the likes don't ever seem to be considered and I believe this is a factor in the future success of the child. While it should not be a sole determinant, I believe stability, education, etc should part of an overall decision process. Now as it stands there is a definite bias and a standard that the mother is the better parent. Not always the case and these thoughts go against all other societal values surrounding generalizing about race,creed, color or sex. It is the only place where a bias is still allowed and shown in such an overt way.
The "whining" you reference is frustration from one's ability to protect and secure a childs well being and especially concerns areas surrounding mental health issues in the long term. Our role besides of course the financial one, is to see that your child grows up healthy and happy, an area often overlooked when the money is involved. Losing control of this causes a lot of emotion. I hope the situation never presents itself for your sake. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 8:50:49 AM |
Anything above that should be a choice given to the NCP to if he/she would like to spend on their child. And further this amount should never exceed more then 25-30% of the NCP's take home income.
This type of formula would ensure that the NCP always keeps a bare min of 70% of his/her take home pay. And also ensure they are simply not being gouged for things from the CP for things they might want to agree with.
I assume you are talking before tax as is the reality. In Australia if you are paying for 1 child it is 18% and 80% of people are on the 30c/$ tax rate so effectively they take home 52%, with 3 kids it is 37% so they would only take home 33% for every extra dollar earned. There is also an amount that is disregarded from the formula which if the NCP has no other children it is around AU$14600 or so. That is also pre tax though. The CP also receives family assistance.
The CP can earn $43654 before any change is made to what is received. The money received for CS is tax free. So let's say they are on equal incomes, the following would apply
With 1 child under 13
NCP Income = $40000 - CS $4564 - Tax $8008 = Net $27428 (68.5%)
CP Income = $40000 + CS $4564 + FA $4317 - Tax $8008 = Net $40873 (102%)
Diff NCP - CP = $13445
NCP Income = $50000 - CS $6364 - Tax $11128 = Net $32508 (65%)
CP Income = $50000 + CS $6364 + FA $2317 - Tax $11128 = Net $47553 (95%)
Diff NCP - CP = $15045
With 3 kids under 13
NCP Income = $40000 - CS $8113 - Tax $8008 = Net $23879 (60%)
CP Income = $40000 + CS $8113 + FA $12954 - Tax $8008 = Net $53059 (106%)
Diff NCP - CP = $29180
NCP Income = $50000 - CS $10298 - Tax $11128 = Net $28574 (57%)
CP Income = $50000 + CS $10298 + FA $6954 - Tax $11128 = Net $56124 (112%)
Diff NCP - CP = $27550
It's no wonder that NCP's are complaining when if they are earning the same amount of money as the CP they can in some cases only have 1/2 as much money to live on.
CP's on the other hand are complaining they don't get enough yet consider this, if a CP had 3 kids to 3 different partners all on $50000 pa, they would receive $19092 in CS and $12954 in Family Assistance which is all tax free. That's $32046 or the equivalent of a job earning around $43000 pa. On top of that they could be collecting rent assistance, sole parents pension, or living with a partner who also earns $50000 pa.
Sure NCP's have a responsibility to the children, but with male NCP's having the highest suicide rate in Australia who is really winning. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 9:34:36 AM | | Well crane because the custodial order effectively removes the NCP from being a parent. The CP decides everything, unless you have a lawyer on retainer. The NCP can offer input but that’s all. Current law relegates the NCP to a babysitter and wallet. I know the cost of raising children and I’ve also see the BS about dividing expenses like you have a roommate. I would no more expect my ex to pay CS that I would for her to make my car payment. If you can’t afford children, you shouldn’t have custody of them. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 1:10:11 PM | | erm, You have got to be kidding? The courts are becoming more accomodating towards joint custoyd these days. If the CP makes the decisions so be it. The decisions affect the CP and the kid the most so the NCP needs to be practical about things. And about the line don't have kids if you can't afford them, how about live up to your responsibilities and then you won't have a problem. Some CPs may be on a witch hunt, and that is not right, but it does cost $800 - $1200 per month to raise a kid and why shouldn't BOTH Parents pay equally? | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 3:04:18 PM | Well said crane man.
Nothing annoys me more than people who play victim for things they have leverage in, or people who use their situation as being equitable to every case. Things vary by state, municipality, country, and circumstance of individual family. Doesnt mean its fair, but its not apples to apples either. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 3:58:53 PM | Striker - have you ever considered that the amounts you are spouting are for more than just 1 person? My ex says his CS is unfair because with my disability payments we (the kids and I) get $200 more a month than he does. There are THREE of us and ONE of him - not to count that I am paying all the medical bills up front and last month alone I paid out $454 for the two kids, they both have chronic health problems that require dr visits and medicine.
What is family assistance? Apparently you have something in Australia that we don't have here (unless you have income of less than 15,000/year). Maybe I need to move down under.
I don't know about australia, but in the US if it is not decided in court who gets to claim the kids on taxes, the parents have the option to allow the NCP claim the kids by signing a federal form. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 4:17:13 PM | | Yes Maryj, Australia has a system that supports single parents very well... the government feels its a wise investment in the long run-- sad some of the NCP's dont see the same value. Thankfully 95% of the people in this thread have been very reasonable - its been extremely refreshing. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 4:29:13 PM | Yes Mary I realise that, your case of $200 difference per month is only $2400 a year. I'm talking with equal earning, differences of up to $28ooo a year which is significant. Sure that is with 3 kids.
Yes family assistance comes from the government and you get at least some unless your income is over $92000.
The CP is the one that 'claims' the kids. That is how they get FA. There is no other tax benefits, just that FA and CS are tax free. No forms required for that.
I am in both situations, I pay CS for one boy and I also am a CP to another but don't receive any CS. Due to the mother now wanting equal time we have him 7 days about. It used to be 2 days with her and has increased over time. Not that I am happy about that because I am the one losing time with him. She has never really paid CS and has another girl who I looked after for the first 18 months before she moved back with her mother.
I pay around $5500 pa | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 4:37:19 PM | See, it is def. not apples to apples, something I said earlier.
In my state in the US, I applied for aid when I started college full time to assist with my income literally being cut in half (though I worked almost as much, but had to take a job that would work around my schedule for classes). At the time, making $9.50 an hour and working 30 hours per week while taking full time classes-- I was only eligible for healthcare and childcare. While those things are extremely important... it doesnt keep a roof over our head.
To me, and I am not an expert on the Australian system by any means, but from what little I know of it-- based on the many forms and quantity of assistance given to single parents there- why even have CS? Seems kind of contraindicated.
In the US, I think thats the big reason the burden is on the dad to prove he is the not the father, and to provide so much (or mom in some cases, though its a very biased system)-- at the end of the day the US govt knows that if they dont make some poor guy pay- most often, the govt will end up having to. Sad, but reality. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 5:02:28 PM | Crane Man I saint you. I'd give you a week in my situation well maybe 3 months! LOL! I also agree the NCP is basically relegated to that of visitor and sitter when needed. I am also a parent and thrust myself into his life at least once daily. Calling, going to practices, games and even dinners through the week. However, I have absolutely no impact on a decison even if asked for advice I have found. If it does cost 1200/mo to raise achild then why are there awards far in excess of that. I guess if you allocate 1/5 of a house payment which by the way would be made kid or not, you could get to 1200. I don't agree but hey.
I pay the dough, I buy what he needs and that's about it but I certainly wish things were more just! Save some money for college, put him in nice clothes, stand for no favoritism in the family when blended families are involved is all I ask. Get some life insurance on selfCP) with the child or the child's trust as beneficiary so you may have the child continue living as he is accustomed. Don't be so selfish as to not meet these basic needs for the child's security. Other than that to heck with it.
If you don't have a situation where the CP knows the child is first and foremost in your life you probably aren't subjected to the constant financial manipulation to the degree some are. Each situation is different and it is hardly whining. I'd like to see the shoe on the other foot and then see the reactions. I believe both parents should be involved in major decisions like school changes, sitter changes etc, but being an NCP we are not even though the court says its joint shared custody. There are extremes in every case as well as variables, don't call people whiners if you have no idea the situation. That is just disrespectful in my opinion. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 5:04:46 PM | our kids r the main reason we claim these beefits t hey are a joke im a single parent i have tried to claim these benifits I GET CALLED A **** IF I CLAIM THEM BUT AFTER ALL I WANT THE BEST 4 MY SON AND BECAUSE I ENDED THE RELASIONSHIP BECAUSR HE WAS WITH SOME1 ELSE WHY SHOULD HIS SON SUFFER GHE HAS NEVER BOTHERED WITH HIM I HAVE ASKED HIM TO SEE HIS SON BUT I GET TOLD IF I HAVE A RELATISHIIP WITH HIM Y SHOULD I I DID NOT DO WRONG YET IM THE I WHOES LEFT TRYING TO BDO MY BEST 4 MY SON THE GOVERMENT DOESNOT THINK OF THEPARENT LEFT WITH THE CHILD IVE TRIED MY BEST WORKING AND NOW I FIND OUT THEY HAVE LEFT ME IN LOADS OF DEBT BECAUSE I WAS ILL 4 A WHILE AND I KNOW MY EX IT WORKING ND CLAIMING MAYBE I SHOULD OF WALKED OUT BUT NO WE WOMAN BEAR R CROSSES AND GET ON WITH IT AND WEN I SEE MY SON WHOES NEARLY A MAN IM PROUD OF MYSELF BECAUSE A PARENT IS THE ONE WHO KEEPS THEM ANY ONE CANHAVE A CHILD ITS THE ONE WHO KEEPS THEM IS THE PARENT DONT YOU AGREE? | |
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| UR WRONG
Posted: 3/30/2007 5:14:11 PM | I REALLY DISAGREE WITH U I WAS TREATED BAD BY MY EX I DIDNT KNOW WHAT MY KIDS FROM MY MARRIAGE WNT THOUGH UNTILL I LEFT HIM BECAUSE I FIND OUT HE WAS PLAYING AWAY AND I THROW HIM OUT HOPING WE COULD STLL BE MATES 4 OUR SONS SAKE WAS I WRONG I ENDED UP HAVING TO LEAVE R HOUSE I COULDNT AFFORD IT HE DIDNT WANT HIS CHILD HE HA TOLD TAT MANY LIES U WOULDNT BELEIVE IT I DO FEEL SORRY 4 MEN THEY DO GET THE BAD END OF THE STICK MOST OF THE TIME BUT THE CHILD SHOULD COME 1ST THEY DONT ASK TO BE BORN AFTER ALL  | |
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| SINGLE WORN OUT PARENT
Posted: 3/30/2007 5:19:50 PM | | PLEASE TELL MY EX THAT AND HOW CAND I TELL MY SON WHO SPENDS HIS POCKET MONEY OFF ME TO GO AND SEES HIS DAD WHO GIVES HIM NOT A THING XMAS OR BIRTHDAY PREASENT AND IS WORKING AND CLAIMING BENEFITS ECT AND MY SON WONDERS WHY I HAVE NO TIME 4 HIM | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 5:24:27 PM | as a Cp I have to respond. what I do with the NCP support payment is up to me. I Shell out hundreds a month for Child care, Schooling, food, Shelter, clothing toys, doctor visits, treats for a good week at school or birthday party's, presents at Christmas and the gas to drive him all over town to swimming, play groups, story times, school ect. He sees his dad every other weekend for about 36 hrs. All my money both paycheck and Child support goes into one account. Where it goes after that is where I swipe my debit card. Any parent knows you spend way more on your kids then you ever do your self; it's what happens after you have kids. As it happens with way my money comes in, I get my pay check one week and the child support clears the following( My ex has another child with a proven track recored of skipping child support so this time everything is auto, it comes out his check and into the state account to my account automatically) I won't track every dime, if he ask where the money goes I just say to the care of our son and his benefit. And in the end if the child is being fed, well dressed, housed in a safe warm secure home, with actives and good schooling isn't that what is most important.
Now comment to NCP's if the child isn't being cared for, the money is being used for illegal actives, then I'd bring it up. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 7:25:56 PM | | Ahh Singleman, no one has it harder than you. Poor Baby! Get real man! Just a clue, I was the NCP for the first 14 months of my son's life. Had him every weekend, saw him once or twice during the week, even when he was a 45 minute drive from my home. I paid support, which was $400 per month even though I made $36k per year and I gave extras. So guess what I was the NCP, I got involved with decisions, who do you think named my son, and who do you think was first to hold him when he was born? ME! The NCP! And I held down my job without complaining while being a Dad. At 14 months I took over as the CP and did everything. So walk a week in your situation, well I have done that type of thing for 14 months AND I made it work. Even though the Mom is an alcoholic I got it done and my son is 5 and he has been with me since he was 14 months old. I have gone 8 months without any money from his Mom. I could do more for him with an extra $300 per month from her for sure. So I am in a position to say SUPPORT YOUR KIDS AND QUIT WHINING! If award s for support are exceeding $800 per months per kid, how much does the NCP make? If you make $200k a year then you should be paying more and giving your kid the best life you can give. Maybe your kid can go to a private school and get a better education and maybe they become a Doctor or whatever. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 7:55:00 PM | | when my ex and I spit he said he didn't want to pay child support every month cause he wouldn't know where the money would be going ...so I agreed that if I gave him a list of things our 1 and a half yr old needed he would buy those things for her..that way he would know that she is getting what she needed and I wasn't waisting the money like he thought I would ....so I called him up and told him that she needed winter boots..he refused to buy them.....a month later I called him up and asked for a pack of diapers ...he refused to buy them ...again and agian the same thing ...now I am taking him to court and sueing him for child support ...he is pissed at me and called me a **** and all I ever wanted from him was his hard earned money ...and that he would never give me a cent. Why am I a **** for wanting him to support his own daughter ..i didn't have her by myself.....???? Can someone explain to me why some men agree to have children when they end up refusing to help support them....? | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 8:01:46 PM | Freddy's-
I also played that game with my ex. In my experience, the men who worry most about where the money is going are the ones who are just looking for an excuse to dodge their responsibility. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/30/2007 10:21:49 PM |
the men who worry most about where the money is going are the ones who are just looking for an excuse to dodge their responsibility.
Or they've got ex's who have proven they are irresponsible with money.
Fact: When my ex and I lived together, I was responsible for paying the mortgage, she was responsible for paying the utilities. We never once defaulted on a mortgage payment. At least 3 times a year we had FINAL NOTICE warnings from either our natural gas supplier, telephone service provider, or our electricity/water supplier. In the two years since we have been separated, I have had 2 Past Due balances which were resolved in the month they were received but I have never received a final notice.
When it comes to money, I take care of my financial responsibilities first. She had always made it a priority that her wants are taken care of first and then hoped someone would come along to bail her out when it comes time to square up her responsibilities. She even got mad at me because I wouldn't call my parents (who live over 2 hours away) to get them to send us $20 to buy milk after she spent all our money at the bar. She said she was upset because she was sick of always having to ask her parents. She didn't see the logic in that she wouldn't find herself having to ask her parents for money if she would start behaving like an adult taking care of her responsibilities first. My ex has never been responsible with money, but that's not taken into account when the courts decide who gets to receive the cheques. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/31/2007 12:17:06 AM |
It should never be calculated based on income.
That reasoning is flawed big time!
All support payments should be based on a percentage of the income of the NCP. Otherwise - the NCP may be paying more then they can afford.
I believe in ontario the calculation is 1% per child on the gross income of the NCP.
A friend of mond has 50/50 custody with her ex. He pays her 'x' - full amount for the kids as if she had full custody. He makes 4x what she makes. He had it written in the divorce that she cannot move from her home. He bought a house across the field from her place - and they are not allowed to live more then 2km from each other.
On an income 1/4 of his - how is she supposed to maintain the large home they initially purchased together? If you use the percentage of the household expenses and divide it and all that crap - he would probably be paying much less - and they would lose the house and she would probably lose her shared custody. HE chose to leave and set up home with his assistant - she didn't ask him to do that....why should the kids suffer? | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/31/2007 12:24:21 AM | | exactly the court doesnt care how its spent and thats a big problem for me simply because i pay out the ass for child support and i know for a fact that it doesnt go to him at least not all of it. but hey what the hell is my prob. there is a lot of guys out there who are paying and its not fair to them that they do pay and it doesnt go to their children. the courts dont care because they are affiliated woth the government. there is no such thing as fair when it comes to paying child support at least for the guy simply because this society is under the impression that its our fault soley that we have children. well as far as i know it takes two to have kids. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 3/31/2007 5:29:31 AM | | 1simon, well you pay out the ass for support, how much is paying out your ass? $300 - $400 per month? How much do you make? Let us know that and then you might get some sympathy. | |
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