| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 3:30:25 PM | | Dude...if you have a problem paying for someone else's kid and resent it that much .......which apparently you do......get a paternity test to prove you're not the father or turn over all right's and shut the hell up....obviously you care more about what your ex is doing than the child!!!!! At least that's how your posts sound. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 5:20:38 PM | Melissa I did not mean to limp anyone of any category together and usually I am very good about not doing so. I do understand there are some very cooperative CP's, just unfortunately I am not one that can brag about that!
Again, I applaud those CP's who can be reasonable and work towards the common goal of everyone being happy. The child first and foremost. The happy we all are the happy the Kid! | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 5:29:48 PM | I have been sitting here for the past hour and a half reading all of the posts. They have been very interesting to say the least.
I have a question.
Because I was divorced in 1994, my ex declares his CS on his income tax (Canadian). Does anybody know if I have to declare it as income? One accountant said that I had to declare it, and another one said not to. My ex pays 650.00 a month in regular CS. He then pays another 400.00 in arrears per month. He then has to pay half of his income tax return and half of his vacation pay each year. He owes me close to 40,000.00 from 6 years of not paying. The children and I lived on much less than half of what I'm making now. I make more than 80,000 nowadays. At that time he paid 0$.
A few years ago I told my ex that I would be willing to forego the arrears if he would just go to court with it so that it would become tax free. He declined even though the government office in Quebec, who garnishes his wages said that they could just not collect arrears, based on my saying not to. I told him that I didn't need the money now. I told him that I would tell the government not to collect it. He refused because if it became tax free for me then he couldn't declare it as a deduction. Then he got mad at me for saying that I was going to let the government collect it all. The way I figure it, why should he be allowed to not pay child support arrears when we had to do with very little for 6 years and then not want to give a little now when I could use the tax break?
So........ I bought a house so that when I die the kids will have it. It will not be paid for for after the next few years with CS at all. Once the CS stops I still have to pay the mortgage each month -- for the next 20 years! I have two teens who eat me out of house and home. I spend at least 500$ a month in food. Believe me, much of it does not go down my throat. I then spend at least 250$ a month in gas. I have to take turns doing the driving of boy/girlfriends home. Then, there are all of the other things...electricity, gas (heating), water, ..... The kids have their friends and boy/girl friends here all of the time. I seldom have less than 4 kids for dinner. I would rather have all of these extra kids here and know where my two are than not have anybody here and not know where they are at. My ex never even bothers to call the kids.
SO.....in case you all missed my question in the midst of all of this rambling, it was: Because I was divorced in 1994, my ex declares his CS on his income tax (Canadian). Does anybody know if I still have to declare it as income?
THEN.......One accountant said that I had to declare it, and another one said not to.
Thanks in advance for any and all answers. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 5:45:29 PM | I do not know Canadian law but child support is not reported as income nor is it taxable here in the USA. Alimony, on the other hand is. I would consult your Child Support Office and ask generally what the rules are. And Lifesaver I wish you the best of luck. Those are the kind of guys that make many CP moms and the states want to gouge us NCP's. It is truly a sad story and very unfair.
And chef I agree with you, it is not worth the ill will, fight, friction or legal costs to contest a few hundred dollars a month. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 5:51:05 PM | | To answer your question in regards to whether you would have to report his payments as income....the answer is yes and no. Any amount of income received as part of a CS settlement must be claimed as income (there is a section specified for that). However, the payments you receive from his income tax and vacation pay are already taxed therefore no..he is responsible for filing taxes on his vacation pay. If you have any doubt... you can go to www.IRS.gov and inquire but I do believe that is applicable in this scenario. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 5:52:23 PM |
Because I was divorced in 1994, my ex declares his CS on his income tax (Canadian). Does anybody know if I have to declare it as income?
Unless you go to court and get it ammended, yes you have to pay income tax on it. Any order prior to April 30th, 1997 is subject to tax deductions for payors and tax responsibility for recipients. If you haven't been claiming it, I would say you should look into how much you could potentially be owing in arrears because eventually Revenue Canada will find out. The accountant who told you not to declare it wasn't very smart.
And just so you know... your ex would be wise to accept the erasing of the arrears by taking you up on the income tax side of things. To the best of my knowledge, you don't have to do much more than walk into a court room to get a new order based on the current guidelines which would wipe out the tax deduction... and he'd still have to pay his arrears. I highly doubt he's getting that much back on his income tax returns to make it worth not wiping out a $40,000 debt. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 6:21:25 PM | Yes, you are right that just by stepping into a courtroom, I would be able to not have it taxed. But then I would have to hire a lawyer and deal with one even though I live in Ontario. It would get sticky. He gets about 7,000$ back a year and I get half of it. He also gets a total of 4-5,000$ in vacation pay each year which I get half of. He is furious with me and won't discuss anything with me as I am the "bad one". The children won't be here for much longer. Is it really worth it to me to go to court? Will I be charged an arm and a leg in order to do so? I'm at a loss as to what to do about it now.
His half of his income tax returns buy him a lot of drugs. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 6:59:29 PM |
But then I would have to hire a lawyer and deal with one even though I live in Ontario.
I don't think you actually have to hire a lawyer, just show up in court with the documents. It's a matter of doing some research to find out how to go about making the application.
Is it really worth it to me to go to court?
Only you know if it's worth going to court over. I'd suggest picking up a copy of the current Guidelines governing child support to educate yourself on how the amounts are determined at this point in time. Once you know the differences between the current system and your order, then you can make a decision. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 7:32:03 PM | Sometimes I think that it would be worth it to go to court. But other times I wonder. I make about 20000$ more than he does now and they might change it where he pays less. I put the money from him into an education fund for the kids and use the backpay for bills, etc. If it was brought down, the kids would just lose out in the end. But I will try to find out more about all of this.
I now realize that I'm going to have to go back and check how much wasn't declared on my income tax.
Thanks everyone | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 7:39:01 PM |
Sometimes I think that it would be worth it to go to court. But other times I wonder. I make about 20000$ more than he does now and they might change it where he pays less.
Well I can assure you right now that if you're making $80,000/year and he's making $20,000 less... he is definately paying you more now that he would if you get it ammended to go by current Guidelines amounts. At $60,000/year, he would probably pay you almost the same amount in child support, but you would lose the half of his income tax return and the half of his holiday pay. I don't think you could make that up in Section 7 expenses. So he's pretty much crazy for not wanting to have the agreement ammended, and especially for not taking you up on the offer to have the arrears erased.
Based on that information, I'd say you're better off letting him prove his point. Don't waste your time in court. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 7:48:20 PM | My child support is paid with after tax funds. I understand they do not tax support. Does the state send out a 1099? Do they tax the money twice? That seems unfair. I will review IRS.gov.
http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq4-5.html
Child support payments are not reported as income! As a CP you better refile your taxes there Yada. It seems you have some cash coming back.
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 8:03:41 PM | | By the way, I was asking That Guy Him if he was a lawyer. He seems to know a few things. I do have to declare CS as income. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 8:45:11 PM |
Also, the 1/2 of his income tax and vacation pay are considered child support arrears.
Ahhh... ok, well that makes sense. It sounded rather odd that something like that would be thrown into an order, but I didn't know for sure. Before the Guidelines, there were some pretty wacky settlements, which is why they developed the Guidelines in the first place... to maintain a level of consistency across the board.
You seem to have a good amount of information.
I do... but I wouldn't take everything I say as gospel. In my situation, I've studied the Guidelines fairly extensively (though I still wouldn't consider myself an expert) because of some of the things my ex has tried pulling in the past. If I hadn't studied it, I'd probably be intimidated by her threats. As a result of reading it, I know most of her threats have no teeth. I left the marriage so that I could get away from the bullying, and knowing what rights both of us have allows me to avoid having it continue to occur now that I'm out. I'll be reasonable, but I'm not going to be pushed around.
By the way, I was asking That Guy Him if he was a lawyer.
No... and if I never have to deal with another lawyer again, it'll be too soon. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/2/2007 10:23:13 PM |
Do not lump us all in the same category...the majority of women are working(some better jobs then men) and can support ourselves...
^^^ Sweetest actually you are in the minority for single parents (and kudos to you for working to make your and your childs life better). Now before I get jumped by several actual working single parents. This isn't a slam directed at any of you. It is simple truth and the reasonning behind the change from CS being taxable on the recipients end to taxable on the payee's end. A stay at home CP paying only income tax on CS isn't going to pay very much now are they? And this is a prevalent problem, so to address it the government decide to tax the income as part of the whole of the NCP's income. Just a figurative example NCP income 40k/year and CP 10k of the NCP's 40k + whatever welfare pays. That worked out to one income on 30k taxable and one income of 10k taxable. The new way it is one income of 40k taxable and one income of zero taxable ........ guess which puts more money in the governments pockets?
And lifesaver based on the date of 1994 it IS taxable on your end, the laws concerning this were not changed until after that date. Going back to court to change it now may not have the impact you hope for though. Although it will be tax free money for you the payments will be less. The table used to calculate support is based on non-working CS and that isn't the case in your situation. You have a taxable income and the higher CS payments just get added into your normal income to determine your tax bracket. Look up the current tables online if you have an estimate of your ex's income. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/3/2007 5:00:30 AM | When the CS was calculated, I was making about 26,000$ per year. Therefore, you are right about how it probably would go down now.
Thanks everyone for the information. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/3/2007 5:10:11 AM |
Dude...if you have a problem paying for someone else's kid and resent it that much .......which apparently you do......get a paternity test to prove you're not the father or turn over all right's and shut the hell up....obviously you care more about what your ex is doing than the child!!!!! At least that's how your posts sound.
If this was directed at me, you are not following along very well. By the same token, if it was not directed at me then my sincere apologies.
Getting a paternity test proves nothing. The child is not mine, everyone knows that - him, his parents, the courts and everyone else. I didn't even meet his mother until years after he was born. I do not have any rights to turn over. The child is not mine, so I do not get visitation or anything else. The only right I have is to pay child support and if I could somehow turn over that right I happily would. And yes, I do care more about what my ex is doing than the child. Don't get me wrong, I wish him no ill will, but I also feel no particular attachment to him.
I would like nothing more than for his father to get a job and have to take over my child support responsibilities and for my ex to find another man to support her so that my alimony can end, though the chances of either of those things happening in any of our lifetimes is so small it isn't even worth mentioning. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/3/2007 5:18:04 AM | | I did not think it was possible to have child support arrears erased? From what I understood you cannot remove money from the child or sign their rights away to money owed for the support of them? Or does that law vary from province to province? | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/3/2007 5:54:26 AM |
From what I understood you cannot remove money from the child or sign their rights away to money owed for the support of them?
To the best of my knowledge, parents are allowed to agree to whatever terms they want. If you sign an agreement that absolves another parent of their responsibility to arrears, it can be done... just like if parents make a decision to agree to Child Support amounts above or below table amounts, that can also be done. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/3/2007 6:19:24 AM | | Vanguy....wow...im sorry to hear about what u are going through...doesnt seem fair does it...i didnt even know that could happen....im speechless.... | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:30:21 AM | | You might be a CPA but you don't know much about CS. I went through this with my ex's son. The IRS only recognizes the CP as entitled to the any deductions. CS is not deductable nor is it taxable. The NCP gets no tax relief at all. Next time get your facts straight before you attack people. | |
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| Child Support OR Family Support
Posted: 4/3/2007 8:18:21 AM | When the CS was calculated, I was making about 26,000$ per year. Therefore, you are right about how it probably would go down now.
When has what you make ever come into it. It isn't spousal support were talking about here. So it will be a direct percentage of the NCP's income per child.
And erm1956 ..... up here we don't even have the IRS so really don't worry about what those tools will or won't recognise. Until the mid 90's the payments overall were high but the payee deducted that amount (think of it as a chlidcare tax deduction), after that the payments were lowered and the payor paid the tax on the full amount. So check a profile and accept there is a world beyond the reach of the IRS before incorrectly correcting.
As for "erasing" arrears, can't be done that I know of in this province. It is money for a minor, a minor can't enter into a binding contract and the person given trust over that money cannot relinquish the childs right to it for them. No clue what would happen if aafter 18 the child was willing to give up claims on that money ..... maybe they would let you out of jail. Unless there is a way to have the original ruling declared improper I think you are on the hook, check with a family lawyer just to be sure though.
PS yadayada, THAT is the whole point, the court will acknowledge you are not the father and still hit you with support in some cases after having lived together a ridiculously short period of time. Paternity isn't always an issue here, only when a GUY can prove he was willfully deceived into believing the child was his and even then has only a limited time to decide if he will be able to separate the issues with the ex and continue being a parent or not. | |
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