| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/28/2007 7:41:14 PM | I think the law would be more for evicting tennants who smoke if enough people complain about the stench....
And next they can evict people who constantly have B.O. and live in the apartment buildings because it was giving too many people headaches and they were complaining.
I'm VERY surprised by so many folks attitudes in this thread. It's really sad that so many feel us smokers should be bossed around in the places WE CONSIDER TO BE OUR HOMES!! Apartments or not they are peoples HOMES!! I'm so happy to see so many nonsmokers are such saints. I'm so sorry us devils are raining on your parades!!
I agree that non smokers are very smart for not sparking up and I give so much credit to those who have quit... you should not have to sit in a smokey room when you choose to not smoke yourself, but it is YOUR decision to surround yourselves in the smoke. You wanna make us smokers feel like outsiders... how about you just stay away from us then. I mean obviously we are weak people who don't give a sh*t about you eh???
To tell people what they CAN and CAN'T do in their own homes is wrong.... no one should have that right. Trust me, many of us smokers wish we never started to begin with... especially if we were to have known we were going to be treated like such monsters by so many of the non smoking saints.
Maybe...if you still want to smoke indoors...you will have to buy your home...
Maybe non smokers should by their own homes.
So many people b!tch and complained about smokers smoking in buildings... now they are complaining about people smoking OUTSIDE on their balconies?? Seriously, what a bunch of B!tchers!!!
I DO someday plan on being an ex-smoker... but no way in hell will I EVER make smokers feel like they don't belong someplace or that they are dirty people for having a bad habit.
How would so many people feel if suddenly you heard the government was going to ban all drinking in people's houses?? Smoking can take years to actually kill someone, drinking can cause death in a single moment!! How about cars and driving?? In a single second an irresponsible person can take the life of another being. The exhaust alone coming from a single car has been known to cause more damage to people and their health everyday. How about we take away cars (it's your choice to drive them), next we take away alcohol (it's your choice to drink) then we take away your right to live someplaces warm with a roof over your head because you have nasty B.O. that is causing others around you to have severe headaches (it's your choice to stink) | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/28/2007 8:19:44 PM | To each their own i say, i've been a non-smoker, a smoker and now hopefully a non-smoker once more.
I never nagged people that smoked, because people in my family smoked so i've been around cigarette smoke most of my life.....i've smoked like i said and chose to smoke outside cause the smell it left in the house and on my cloths and other peoples cloths in the place,
I can see having smoke free apartments, but that should be left up to the owner renting the places out not the government......i thought i was born in a country that was a democrasy, not dictator.......
But i guess that's what happens when our government spends too much time in other country's with dictatorships, as the saying goes monkey see monkey do | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/28/2007 9:42:12 PM | Brash;
You originally said you saw this on TV on the news last night.. now when it is pointed out that it was a poll on a website with no backgrounders it changes to "Well thats how the gov't starts these things"?
I don't smoke around my kids, or around other non-smokers unless they chose to come near me. I stand away from entrances to buildings, away from parks/playgrounds, and away from other people all together.
I realise it is MY habit, not yours and respect it.
To bad so many people without my habit, have the equally annoying habit of getting into other people business. Yes i first saw this article on the news tuesday night when they interveiwed the health minister .He stated that it would be debated in the legislature and with anti-smoking groups .yes he was answering questions to a poll and my point was that once they start they will continue on until the goverment makes a new law irregardless of whatever debates the non smokers may be allowed to attend ,remember i say allowed ,because the fact is a very small minority of people are ever allowed to debate anything with the goverment .
So what i was trying in essence to say was once they start something with polls and then supposed debates you can bet your last dollar it eventually will become law .My apoligies if for some reason you felt mislead by my posts in anyway i was just stating what i saw on the news and my opinion as to what will happen .I am a smoker and i respect the rights of non smokers and do not smoke in areas i am not allowed to smoke but if i am having a smoke in an area away from everyone else do not walk up to me and try to tell me to butt out ,stay out of my space and more importantly stay the hell out of my home .
I am really sick and tired of being treated like i am a second class citizen by non smokers and feel my rights as a tax paying citizen are being taken away from me at a rate that is alarming to me .
I am a non drinker but i would never suggest that others not exercise there right to drink ,nor would i ask that restaurants and the like be banned from serving alcohol ,but if i choose to go to a bar i have to put up with the smell and attitude of certain poor drunks or i can leave and i believe it is a shame that smokers don't have this choice nor do the people that run these business ,it is just a no it is banned ,whatever happened to everyones right to choose ????? some use the argument it effects the people owrking in these establishments ,but i say hey if you don't like it go work somewhere else that is democracy ,not banning it in every bar even when the owners would like to allow it in certain parts of there business and are willing to go with the come in if you like or don't but this place is 40 per cent smoking ,there is no choice period .
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/28/2007 9:51:08 PM |
The issue, according to earlier articles, is the filtration of second-hand smoke from one Unit to the other through electrical outlets, doorways, windows, and often through cracks/spaces in poorly built structures. If you are in a dwelling where smoke leaks through electrical outlets, you're living in a firetrap. Code requires that firewalls are in place between units. If smoke is leaking through outlets, that's not in place. Tell me where you live so I can have your apartment torn down.
Next they'll be telling you that you can't cook certain foods since the smell might irritate neighbours. Then it'll be no loud sex since puritanical virgins aren't getting any and the noise offends/makes them feel sorry for themselves.
While I'm at it, enough with the holier than thou attitude of a few of you. Choose not to visit my home? Who would invite you in the first place? | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/28/2007 10:20:12 PM |
they'll be telling you that you can't cook certain foods since the smell might irritate neighbours.
This means there will be a whole lot of empty apartments :)
Then it'll be no loud sex since puritanical virgins aren't getting any and the noise offends/makes them feel sorry for themselves.
One of my ex gf's was a super for her her building and would get calls at all hours from tenants complaining about the "sounds of love" emenating from above, below, or beside them..... she actually did evict a guy cause his g/f was LOUD and it echoed in the courtyard.. "standard noise complaint". | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/29/2007 12:35:33 AM | Hi all!...
Hmmm... If you look at it from many perspectives everyone's got a point...personal choice over community/individual health...
Someone said they don't make smoking anybody elses problem...well when people(them included) are in the hospital suffering from smoking related diseases(and there's tons...Asthma, COPD, Cancer in any form, Cronic Bronchilitis etc...) who pays the millions of dollars in costs? You, Me, Everybody thats who...
How about the lady/man in the restaurant, bar, bingo hall etc...- who worked for 30 years and died prematurely due to Cancer or COPD? She was a good employee..Did she get a good retirement package? Anyone says 'Who asked them to work there?'..."Get your head out of your ass."
Who was the winner who said they had a problem with them making it illegal for you to smoke while you had kids in the car?..:S thats a no brainer..obviously by that comment, the laws needed...when you can't see pass your own addiction to protect your kids from known carcinogenics..DUH!
How about the houses where there's multiple rental units...no amount of 'good building practice' is gonna stop smoke transfer...through the ducts - etc...and its just great when you've got your windows open for a fresh breeze and somebody on the balcony next to you decides to 'go out' for a smoke...all that smoke blows right in through your windows smelling up your apt. and what if you've got kids?...Now they're breathing some idiots second hand smoke from their own living room that you pay for! Or how about in your own backyard and the neighbor has a few friends over and they're all smoking and now you can't even enjoy your own backyard...with or without your kids
Yes the government is hypocritical taking the taxes from these items and then labelling them killers....but Killers are what they are...
Moderate mature alcohol consumption is in no way harmful...in many proven studies its somewhat helpful... anything humans do in overindulgence is/can be dangerous/non productive..but then its the individual not the product...Tobacco-- its the product..no amount is safe
It all depends on how you look at it but common sense does seem to be a four letter word nowadays... and this 'ME' society we're living in today really sucks....little appreciation for anything but selfsatisfaction....
And I used to smoke and quit cause my mother got COPD after smoking for 35 years and I didn't wanna do that to my kids or anybody else...
Nor do I wanna see it happen to anybody else...
Sometimes it takes brutal reality to wake people up...
And all the things we have that contribute to pollution need to be redesigned to stop doing just that and stop using them as an easy out for your own individual responsibilities please, its not a pretty picture, redirecting blame..suspiciously sounding like those gov. guys your complaining about...
Cigarettes need to be made illegal....its that simple..
I don't think anybody grew up dreaming about smoking...
Words for thought? | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 2:42:28 AM | Honestly is anyone really that surprised that this is happening??? I for one am not. Like someone asked how will this be enforced? Will they create squads of government employees whose job will be to investigate smoking complaints?? With the power to issue fines and court dates to those deemed to be in viloation of smoking by-laws?
I think that those in favor of big brother style government will like this idea. More state regulations, more civil servants, busier courts, busier lawyers . Wow this soooo sounds like a great idea. Another way for the government to make money, like we are not taxed enough as is. This whole issue always reminds of those great pioneers of anti-smoking research, the nazis. I think that this is a measure that they would endorse happily. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 4:03:59 AM | I don't think this is about "Big Brother" governments...geesh...
If I want to rent a unit, that I paid for...that I pay to maintain....it is well within my rights to ask that the people I rent to not to smoke inside of it...if you don't like my rules, then find someone else to rent from who doesn't care...(and then not enforce the law)........if there is no law on the books, then I, as the landlord, will have a hard time evicting someone who decides they don't give a shit if they cover my property with nicotine stains and irritate my other tenants with thier smelly habit.....I doubt there will be anti-smoking swat teams patrolling apartment buildings.....the law states that you have to be 19 to buy smokes---HA---now that is a well enforced law!
I am so tired of whiny smokers---going on about their rights...what about non-smokers? BO isn't going to give us cancer...either is the smell of other people's cooking...and those odours usually dissapate.....cigarette smoke lingers because it gets into everything....and is almost impossible to get rid of....(if someone had bad BO I would probably discreetly tell them anyway).....not to mention the health hazards cigarettes cause...it is your choice to smoke...why can I not have the choice to live in a smoke-free building??? | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 8:23:51 AM | I have a pleasure also
I like a can of beer now and then
The residue of my pleasure is urine
Would you be annoyed if I stood on a chair
and pissed on your clothes without your consent? Can we have a demo Jennifire? lmfao!
I don't see why a landlord couldn't put it in as a condition of tenancy that there is no smoking. If you sign the lease and agree to no smoking then violate that condition the landlord has the right to request eviction.
Not that eviction would then therefore be easy, just legal.
Certainly the air filtering systems could be upgraded and cracks filled that allow smoke to filter between apartments. But there's always the smoke that gets out of your door and stinks up the hallway when you are coming and going.
I like the idea, especially for seniors and people with small children, of a non-smoking building. There are also people who are highly sensitive to cigarette smoke who I am sure would love to have a smoke-free apartment building.
but legislating it? How about just legislating the rights of landlords to provide the option. Big brother is watching us. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 8:38:37 AM | I am so tired of whiny smokers
If the same consideration were given the other way around, there may be a chance that non-smokers would be more regarded as having a valid point of view, instead of causeing the other half of the population to get their back up and spit fire back...
Once again... there's probably a middle ground in here somewhere, and little need for completely degrading anyone or group of people... especially ones like this...
Yes the government is hypocritical taking the taxes from these items and then labelling them killers....but Killers are what they are... | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 11:29:49 AM | Regarding "Smoke Sensitivity"..
My MIL claims to be severly alerigic to smoke.. ciggarette smoke, camp fire smoke, fireplace smoke, food smoke....
but loves to go to church and stand beside the insence and waft it over er breathing it in deep... kinda off topic but.. how sensitive to smoke can a person be if they can do this ;) | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 12:29:54 PM |
I have a request for the powers that be , who have the ability to create a health issue out of nothing
Jack you have to be kidding right? A health issue out of nothing?You seriously think second hand smoke is not harmfull??Dude give your head a shake. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 12:46:45 PM | 'JUSTASTUDENT'...Read...ITEMS... not people...before you quote me and comment...make sure you don't misinterpret/misquote me..:S.... wish I could figure out how to cut and paste here..:S
Gee wonder why they have to make everything a law....because its to ensure that people don't get taken advantage of..or abused...and as for smokers/anti smokers....stop making it a war...we're all people(some more considerate than others)...make it about the destructive product...not the personal choice....its just a soapbox to stand on...why do people smoke?...because its advertised by the company's that are making millions off it...they are the primo proof that advertising works...adding deadly addictive substances to them....complain to/force them to make a safer product...if its really all about the habit....You don't have a right to 'habitually' kill others/yourself...(I'm sure somebody somewhere loves all of you)...even if it might miss killing you/ a few of those, whom you do smoke around...and nobody can say their fine till they die without any effects of smoking...
by then its a little too late to argue..
yah think?..lol | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 1:07:48 PM | This is actually a tough debate. I am a non-smoker and allergic to smoke. My exposure to it as a child has caused some respitory issues now.
I don't believe the intent of the proposed legislation is to totally ban smoking in all buildings, but to allow some landlords to offer smokefree buildings. This would be similar to having smokefree hotel rooms.
I can understand how frustrated smokers must be. I do not think smokers are evil. :) I do feel that their habit is one that is invasive though. The smell of stale smoke is not pleasant but confined to their individual apartment is a fair compromise since they cannot smoke in hallways and other public areas.
I do believe that an apartment where a smoker has lived and vacated does have a strong residue of smoke on the walls and in the carpet and the landlord would have to repaint at the very least, and possibly replace carpets. I am not sure if repainting is automatically done when a tenant vacates but this is extra cost to the landlord.
Anyway...I don't feel all apartments should be smokefree. A smoker should be able to smoke in their home. But...I also feel a landlord should have the option to offer a smokefree building for those that prefer it. I am sure there will still be ample buildings for smokers. Supply and demand dictates it. There will always be smokers and there will always be non-smokers that will need apartments. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 3/29/2007 2:18:23 PM | Read...ITEMS... not people...before you quote me and comment...make sure you don't misinterpret/misquote me
@ mspinkest: I wasn't trying to misquote/misinterpret you. I was pointing out that if you refer to smokes in such a way, than what would that say about the people who smoke them, to those who don't smoke, particularily in this debate. That was the only intention. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/29/2007 3:06:47 PM | | i think it is a person's own choice whether they want to smoke in their own apartment or not.i think the reason they want the ban is in the interest of public safety(in the case of fires in the residence)and public health(second hand exposure to non_smokers).as in regards to businesses,i think in order to ensure a healthy environment sure the government should step in and say where they can and cannot smoke,but in a person's own home,no! | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/29/2007 9:51:41 PM | Would lik e to comment on NOT SMOKING in apartment buildings is that as long as someone is not getting evicted over this government nonsense then so be it that apartment buildings become non-smoking. But only after the person moves out.
Eventually you will see this happen. There are apartment buildings now that are non-smoking with waiting lists. Unfortunely our government believes in control over the individual. Take note of this, here in London, our city council had a debate on people hanging out there laundry on lines after it is washed. People were phoning in to city
council members and complaining of this awful site of seeing someone else's laundry hanging ON A LINE next door. Now I don't know about anyone else, but my mother hung out laundry all the time, I even hang it outside once in awhile, PLEASE don't report me, of course where I live probably doesn't matter. Appears to be people complaining were in new subdivisons or had signed moving in conditions when buying property. OH THE HORRORS OF IT ALL. LOL. I was appalled that my city council would debate this, when in London alone there are over 40000 people without DOCTORS. The city council stated after there debate, people were in favour of a by-law supporting that people DO NOT HANG OUT LAUNDRY.
So don't be surprised if someone comes knocking at your door, OR your neighbour has you reported for hanging out your laundry. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/29/2007 9:57:54 PM | I think it should be the home/apartment owner's choice to make the dwelling non-smoking, or to allow smoking. A clause in someone's lease should be enough to allow eviction should tenants be found smoking on such premises. After all, a lease is a contract between the tenant and landlord, the government is not involved.
I don't understand why so many places here even allow smoking inside, where I come from almost no one smokes in their house, especially a rental property, it is usually stated in the lease that you can't, smoking inside is generally frowned upon. The landlord will usually let you know if it's OK for you to smoke inside, but that is very rare.
I don't like being exposed to cigarette smoke, it makes me sneezey, makes my clothes stink and my throat sore. But taking away other peoples' rights is not the way to go about this smoking issue. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/29/2007 10:09:28 PM | Man I could just see it now someone knocking on the door and saying Smoke police open the door or we will break it down !
Then what arrest you for having a smoke in your own home!
I could see what the judge would be doing when he had to deal with that in his court room !
And I hope any of you non-smokers thinking that would be a great high paying job out arresting smokers in their own homes theres a few on the job hazards that just could kill you . Such as a rot weiler /doberman/maybe 3-5 drunks smoking and watching baseball and toronto is loosing. And then theres the single women with crying babes that have been driving their mothers nuts all day. I bet after you ran into some of those on the job work hazards you'd say leave the smokers alone . And if your one of those people who thinks second hand smoke is deadly then get rid of your car and move into those appartments that are called envirmentally clean . That way you can't open a window or sit on the balcony and that second hand smoke can't get you. I bet not one non smoker would be willing to part with their cars or trucks would you!!.
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/30/2007 1:00:03 AM | As a smoker I hope the government bans smoking totally so the billions of
lost tax dollars can be replaced by the whole population.
That way the smokers(quitters)in a sense would pay less taxes than the the non-smokers. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/30/2007 7:14:53 AM |
I bet not one non smoker would be willing to part with their cars or trucks would you!!.
well firmbear, since my car is a requirement for my work I certainly couldn't afford to part with it. Cigarettes on the other hand are not necessary. They don't help you get your groceries home or get your kids between cities to their dad's house. They don't have much in the way of clear benefits. Sure we should all use our vehicles less. Walk more, bicycle more.
But I still don't get the comparison with cars & cigarettes. Sure, they both polute, but transportation versus an unnecessary indulgence? Apples & oranges.
That way the smokers(quitters)in a sense would pay less taxes than the the non-smokers
wouldn't we all be paying the same then? And supporting the tobacco farmers as they change crops. Do you honestly think that the taxes on your cigarettes is enough to pay for the chemotherapy, radiation, palliative care that cost taxpayers millions for cancer therapy? | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/30/2007 10:10:49 AM |
"freedom to live without fear of having my apartment burnt out"
I had the unfortunate event of losing everything I owned to a fire cause by someone
who lived below me.
However, it was not because of some inconciderate smoker.
It was because this person didn't know how to cook.
Not every fire is caused by smoking.
Sorry but I'll bet that there are more people that don't know how to turn off a stove
than there are smokers.
Keep on living in fear and make sure your insurance is up todate.
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Smoke smoke smoke that cigarette............................................
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/30/2007 4:07:33 PM |
Do you honestly think that the taxes on your cigarettes is enough to pay for the chemotherapy, radiation, palliative care that cost taxpayers millions for cancer therapy?
Well seeing as you live in Canada... I hate to burst your bubble, but taxes on cigarettes more than cover the additional cost to the health care system generated by smoking. Smokers are actually subsidizing the non-smokers healthcare.
Let's stick to facts here. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/30/2007 6:43:07 PM | ' Taxes on cigarettes more than covers the additional cost ' LOLOLOLOLOL
Good joke!!
Innacurate...
But a joke none the less... | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/30/2007 7:55:52 PM | ^^^^^^ I guess it comes down to who's numbers you choose to belive. The anti-smoking campaign, or ecconomists.
I'll stand behind the government if they want to ban tobacco use in this country. If only 10% of the population are smokers, politically there is no reason for a 'responsible' government not to. The 'supposed' drain on the taxpayer would be removed and we, as a population would all be healthier. The reason governments will not take this step is because they can not bear to lose the enormous cash influx that tobacco taxes generate. | |
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