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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/30/2007 10:49:49 PM | Average cost of a pack of smokes in Ontario = $9.75
Less the $1.25 that the tobacco companies/store get = $8.25
Lets be conservative and say the gov't "only" gets $6 per pack of smokes sold.. (just to save the blah blah blah about profits.)
According to the Canadian Caner society, just under 5 Million Canadians are smokers. So also being conservative, lets say 4.5 million smokers.
Based on an AVERAGE 1 pack a day (as some smoke more some smoke less) the Gov't would be receiving $27,000,000 (that is Twenty Seven MILLION dollars) per day in Tobacco related taxes.
Since that is a per DAY number, that comes up to $9,855,000,000 or just under $10 BILLION dollars a year in Tobacco Tax Revenue.
According to the Canada Conference board, the gov't spends $3,239 per person on average on health care related expenses. (of course some people need more some people need less but that's what the average is..)
With a Canadian population of roughly 35 million people... the govt spends.. $113,365,000,000. (One Hundred Thirteen BILLION)
So the smokers are providing a full 10% of the health care budget directly.
The average number of "smoking related diseases " deaths in 1998 (the latest info i could find) was 47,581. Just over .14% of the population.
Also note that "smoking related" means any respitory desiese .. regardless of the environment in which the person lived/worked/played. So a NUN who never smoked in her life, but worked in an asbestos factory dies of a upper resitory desies it falls under this stat, as it is "related" to smoking.. cause.. well.. why not.
Now everyone take these numbers and spin them!!! Smokers will get values that support them, non smokers will get values that support them. Irregardles, smokers pay a lot of taxes. (get rid of smoking say bye-bye to our budget surplus!!) | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/31/2007 12:12:09 AM | Ohhhhh to heck with it. Let the government tax the apartments that
have smokers ...lol.... Alot of taxes are paid for smoking, I choose to beleive the governtment can not afford to ban smoking. Does anyone smoke the tax free
ones? 200 ciggys in a bag? | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 3/31/2007 12:13:00 AM | I don't pay taxes on my smokes so I guess that means I'm getting FREE health care.
Dream on.......
Cigarettes = Indians revenge on the white man.......... | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 4/1/2007 7:00:40 PM | | Ok,,,me i am a smoker,,if you smoke in your own place your neighbours going to phone the cops on you,,well first time someone lights up a dope stick,,phone the cops on them,,the list will go on,,i know London is trying to ban cell phone use by a driver,,unless it is handsfree or ear piece system. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 4/1/2007 7:53:35 PM | Ridiculous rules being imposed on an easy target- tobacco smoke is not radioactive - it doesn't kill someone just from smelling it once.
People complain about this while their standing over their gas tanks fueling up- they've already inhaled a far more lethal dose of benzene.
But someone else here says they "need" to be able to use their vehicle- just like they need to sit in a drive thru line for 10 minutes at Tim Horton's to get coffee and donuts " I can"t leave my car - I'll get something from the smokers".
Pure lunacy- I wanted all the extra tax money refunded that I paid out to cover the costs of being a "bad person" doing a perfectly legal activity for the last number of years. Or free treatment for my addiction and compensation for my suffering.
Lets take the free subsidy away from the nonsmoking fanatics. And wait until the government makes one of their favourite activities illegal (driving, drinking, eating fatty food (chocolate) or sex - Then lets listen to the complaining start. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 4/3/2007 11:27:43 AM |
But someone else here says they "need" to be able to use their vehicle- just like they
I DO need my vehicle. It's a condition of my employment that I go out and visit people in the community and am available by pager to go immediately for urgent situations. But the average person doesn't need their vehicle - most transit systems allow you to bus/subway in the city instead of drive.
It's not that ridiculous to offer non-smokers a non-smoking apartment building. The use of lead-free gasoline was legislated, why not have smoke-free buildings?
And smokers may pay $6 a pack in taxes (if you smoke the expensive ones) , which helps to fund the health care system, but there are other costs such as loss of employability, costs to the employer, added health costs such as for drugs that are either out of pocket or paid by insurance, that aren't covered under the health care system. So actual cost of dying from a smoking related disease, on top of missing out on seeing your grandchildren grow up, is more than just what the health care system absorbs.
anyway, the topic is going from legislating smoking in your home to how beneficial smoking is and how it doesn't kill you from smelling it once. (although if you're allergic, it's possible). No, it kills you from repeated exposure and that it why the employees of the bars and restaurants have been provided protection from secondary smoke. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 4/3/2007 6:18:11 PM | This, and other smoking vs non smoking arguments will go on and on until there is NO place left for smokers to light up.
It doesn't matter how considerate we are, or aren't. Our health, the health of our families, the supposed drain on taxes, the alleged increased health care costs....none of those are the real issue.
The real issue is people have to have something to **** about. And being human beings, we will bully those that weaker and can't fight back.
In this case, smokers. Every smoker knows the facts, and for that reason, we don't fight back. We can't. So instead, we have to stand by and be bullied by the sanctimonious, self-righteous do-gooders. We could seal ourselves up inside our childless, air-tight homes, with filtration systems to keep the smoke-polluted air from escaping out of doors, and the non-smoking faction would still complain. They would then take up the cause to save us from our smoke-filled exile.
It won't stop, until we do.
And when we stop, what's next?? As others have already pointed out.....obesity would be the obvious next target. Why....obese people are a drain on the health care system. They're responsible for untold hours of employee absenteeism. They're a drain on the tax system which must force businesses and public services to accommodate this particular disability. They foster an unhealthy lifestyle. They contaminate their defenceless children's minds, because of course, children will do what they see their parents do. We learned that with smoking, didn't we???
And what about the demon drink? Let's get it banned from homes where children live! Let's ban the drinking of alcohol in the presence of children. Our health care system is overburdened with people suffering the ravages of alchol abuse, Friday night bar fights, drunk driving.....
What will be interesting is how large the anti-anything-I-don't-like army will be. All of us smokers who were forced to butt out, the now slimmer fatties and the dry alkies will want to join up, so we can have a turn at being bullies too. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!/Joke
Posted: 4/15/2007 9:50:19 AM | Well all you gotta do is look at our current health minister, he is out of the closet, former cocaine addict, and former snmoker, so he is one of these left wing liberal do gooders, who dont have a damn clue what goes on in the real world, and trying to subject everyone to his set of morals and values, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, what an example!!! | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!/Joke
Posted: 4/15/2007 11:04:27 AM | $0.02 ... I moved into a "non-smoking" building (a small triplex) - nobody forced me to chose it, I simply exercised my privilege of selecting where I live (i.e. ten minutes from work, so I'm not wasting time in rush hour each day).
Sadly, however, my slum landlord rented out the basement apartment to ... a smoker.
Now I'm greeted each day with the smell of cigarettes, and each night I drift off to sleep wondering whether I'll be awakened by the smoke, the fire alarm, or the arrival of the fire engines ...
Obviously, I'm re-evaluating my choice of residence - however, in the context of this thread I'd have greatly appreciated it if my slum landlord hadn't rented out the apartment directly underneath me to a smoker ... (did I mention I've got a slum landlord?)  | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!/Joke
Posted: 5/6/2007 8:52:55 AM | Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... who do we tax and outlaw next? First the smokers, then the drinkers, maybe the obese (government has already suggested it), then the ugly (they are harmful to the eyes), then the athletes (they use more than their share of health care), then children (they use health care but don't contribute).....Where do we stop?
Hitler embarked on a road of ethnic cleansing. Is this what we are headed for next? Who is to decide who gets "cleansed"? | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!/Joke
Posted: 5/6/2007 8:59:29 AM | | Being a smoker myself I really don't have a problem with them not wanting me to smoke in public buildings an such but for them to tell me I can't smoke in or just outside my own home that I have a problem with.Right now I am having a hard time finding an apartment to move to cause they don't want smokers or pets. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/7/2007 6:43:50 AM | My daughter and I live in a smoke free apartment (6 unit building) It is in the lease and one of the seniors in the building is extremely alergic.
My mom lives in an appartment building and is somewhat alergic to cigarette smoke. She has problems with the smoke coming into her appartment, it's in the hallways, and out on the balconies.
I think the landlord should have every right to not rent to smokers, and be able to easily evict tennants that do not comply. You do not own the building someone else does and you should respect the landlord and the other tenants that you live with. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/7/2007 8:44:48 AM | i think right after we do this we should ban fish and curry cuz those r too overly offending smells to me too. and it makes me wana puke and then what if i coke on my puke and die????? this could get serrious i think though what i do at MY house is MY business and until they ban curry and fish i will still smoke really whos going to enforce these rules the smoking police they r going to hire??????
as 4 ppl being allergic im allergic to cats but i dont go telling ppl in the building they cant have a cat???? hummm maybe i will start u can call me cat policeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee well im gona go make a theme song and stuff maybe a superhero costume lol | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/7/2007 8:50:55 PM | Dumb dumb dumb dumb
We live in a free society with some restrictions for the benefit of the majority. Banning smoking in public places is good, but in one's own apartment???? Give me a break!!!
Stupid!
P.S. I have never smoked in my life - my dad died because of "the habit", but this is just ridiculous. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/7/2007 9:56:47 PM | I smoke.
I ride a bike. I walk.
I take the bus but I don't drive a car, and very rarely take a cab.
So I smoke on the street and I smoke on patios, particularly ones next to parking lots.
The anti smoking in apartments will come, but very slowly. No landlord can impose this except in specific units they rent out, or in new buildings. It would be interesting to see what happens when someone does sign a lease that says no smoking and they do smoke or allow it in their unit. | |
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MsChar
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Joined: 10/4/2005
Msg: 91 | |
| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/7/2007 10:38:13 PM | anyone wanna bring their cats n dogs , pot luck fish, or currie dish or maybe the chicken you barbqued on your balcony and of course lots of beer and maybe a bottle of wine oh heck even some pot and of course your smokes and come for a picnic say hmm in the middle of the 401 ..... we will be real easy targets to hit there!
oh please come in your car and no car pooling aloud and of course call me on your cell while you drive ! maybe a government offical can join us and just make it illegal to do anything we are doing that day. but gals remember ... we can legally show our boobs !!!
charla | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/8/2007 3:25:50 PM | They should either outlaw tobacco or shut the hell up about it.
And the government does NOT have the right to tell me what to do with a LEGAL product in my home. The moment they tried, someone would challenge it in court and win. The only way this would work in court is if they outlawed it. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/8/2007 9:18:37 PM | Ahhh, here's a topic I love - politics.
Cry and moan all you want, but should the government ban the sale of tobacco products in Canada, the revenue generated from said sales will be lost. If you think gas prices are high, healthcare premiums are retarded, sales tax is too high or income tax is ridiculous, well, it'll be worse. Little do you all realize that the revenue will have to come from somewhere, and YOU are that somewhere.
It has been said time and again, "the true test of a democracy is how the majority treats the minority." If it's true that non smokers are in fact the majority, how are they treating smokers? They treat smokers as a blight on the face of society, a blemish that should be eradicated at all costs. Have smokers (even when, according to Statistics Canada, they were the majority) ever treated non smokers as such?
I'm a smoker, and y'know what? I pay my taxes. I pay an Ontario health premium that is there to help cover the cost of the old Ontario Health Insurance Plan - whether I use the various forms of that social benefit or not. The point is, who cares what I decide is the best thing for me?
Are tattoos outlawed? How about body piercing? Here's one, let's ban all nuts in Canada as well - hell, enough people die every year from anaphylactic reactions, they MUST be bad. While we're at it let's ban cars, construction of new homes, livestock, agriculture, mineral retrieval, fishing, lumber operations...getting the hint?
If you are a non smoker and you have a problem with someone's cigarette smoke, why don't you just do the smart thing and politely approach the person and explain yourself? Explain why you have a problem with what they're doing, but refrain from using sentences like: "I shouldn't have to put up with that," "You're polluting my air," or "Why can't you just have some respect." Perhaps start with "Excuse me, I was wondering if you could possibly...."
Common courtesy and politeness will get you much further than preaching, bellyaching and complaining.
Furthermore, if you're a non smoker and you don't wish to deal with cigarette smoke, don't stand near places that people will, could or will most likely smoke. If this means that you feel you need to hermit in your abode to keep your air clean and fresh, then so be it. Should you feel forced to trap yourself in your home? No. At the same time, should smokers feel that they be persecuted because many disagree with their lifestyle choice? No. Go tell a homosexual that their lifestyle choice is wrong and there is no room in the country for their choice because seeing them walk hand in hand is ruining your occular enjoyment. Wait until you see what happens. That would be considered a 'hate crime,' simply for voicing your opinion (which you're allowed to have and express under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms).
It seems extreme to compare smoking to homosexuality, but if smoking is banned, what's next? | |
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MsChar
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Joined: 10/4/2005
Msg: 95 | |
| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/8/2007 11:28:54 PM | well a big applause for you jeffm , finally a cool head prevails!as said by yourself and others , be careful what you wish for because your vice may be the next on the chopping block.
charla | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!Whats Next...
Posted: 5/19/2007 6:34:41 PM |
I am so tired of whiny smokers---going on about their rights...what about non-smokers? BO isn't going to give us cancer...either is the smell of other people's cooking...and those odours usually dissapate.....cigarette smoke lingers because it gets into everything....and is almost impossible to get rid of....(if someone had bad BO I would probably discreetly tell them anyway).....not to mention the health hazards cigarettes cause...it is your choice to smoke...why can I not have the choice to live in a smoke-free building???
You do have a choice to live in a smoke free building.. You just have to find one ...and quite bit*ching | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/19/2007 7:19:05 PM |
My daughter and I live in a smoke free apartment (6 unit building) It is in the lease and one of the seniors in the building is extremely alergic.
My mom lives in an appartment building and is somewhat alergic to cigarette smoke. She has problems with the smoke coming into her appartment, it's in the hallways, and out on the balconies.
Then move your mother in with you.
If your mother smoked.....Would you like to see her evicted from her home?
I'm a non smoker, but My mother was a smoker and has since passed. I would never refuse my mother to smoke in my home, She was up in age, but because it was winter and freezing out I would never let her go outside and smoke.
BTW..she did not die from smoking ..she died from afall / broken hip that she recieved while going outside to have a cigarette when she was patient in the Hospital.
If all the smokers quit.. Do you relalize how much you will be paying for gas?
Cigarette taxes lost.. will be made up in gas taxes.
As if Gas prices aren't enough already! | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/20/2007 2:17:25 AM | I am a non smoker but going as far as saying not in their won home thats too far. I mean if i know my friend is a smoker i wont go to their place alot of times they come over to mine and just go out side. i mean telling someon what they can and cant do in thier own home is pushing it. thats not right
i agree if you want to save someone tell them to ban alchohol too its only fair | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/20/2007 12:22:52 PM | Let's face it, smokers in general are an easy mark for politics and taxes. This is just yet another platform in an attempt to win votes and has nothing to the genral public's health or well being just like similar decisions in the past.
When they banned smoking in bars, they did so with no consideration or suggestions from the bar owners. As such, many bars suffered huge financial losses and hardships when it was imposed and to this day, still have not recovered. The fact is the majority of drinkers were smokers and chose to stay at home, or spend less time/money in the bars which now nearly 3 years later, hasn't changed.
In regards to taxes on cigarettes, every time taxes were raised in the past, they used to use the excuse that it was related to the population's health and well being. Quoting reasons such as to put the cost of cigarettes out of young people's range and also the money was to be used to cover "smoker's" extra health care expenses. Now, however, the Toronto budget commitee want's to tax cigarettes even higher in the city to cover shortfalls in their budget, but still keep councillors self-voted pay increases. This has nothing to do with related costs but rather just proof smokers are an easy mark to exploit. We're addicted already, so raising taxes is easy money to grab.
As for banning smoking in apartments (and we're not talking common areas here), again, it's just an example of attempt to unjustly push around smokers under the guise of public interest. My smoking in my apartment has less impact on my neighbour's enjoyment of their own apartment within their own dwelling and the common areas than the odors emitting from their apartments I find disgusting from their cooking, incense, and other scent emitters. Unlike many of them, I do not prop my door open and force these unwanted emissions on any of my unsuspecting neighbors. Perhaps they could waste some more time and money make and enforce a law to counteract that attack on my scenses. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/22/2007 1:45:31 PM | As a non-smoker and a landlord, it would be great to see tobacco labled as illegal. The work and expense to clean an apartment after a smoker has lived there is substantial. The ducts have to be professionally cleaned, the walls/ceilings/cupboards need about 3 washings before they can be painted, rugs usually have to be thrown out, windows/light fixtures take several washings to get all the nicotine off, switchplates/outlet plates have to be scrubbed, etc., etc. I usually end up with a bronchial infection as a result of working in the unit, even with all windows open. I also have to pay high insurance rates because there might be a fire caused by a careless smoker. Bottom line, it would be nice to see laws in place so landlords could enforce a non-smoking rule for the building. Someone suggested urine tests but no thanks. There would be no way to know if the tenant gave you their urine or someone elses and that wouldn't cover enforcing the rule that the tenants' guests can't smoke in the building. 
As an individual with allergies and asthma, I wasn't able to go to bars, restaurants, dance halls, etc. when there was smoking allowed. It's really nice to be able to go out to these places now. Someone still needs to enforce no smoking near entrances at most of these places. I have to hold my breath until I get inside the building when I have to walk by smokers or ashtrays to get to the door. I also object to having to close my car windows because the person in the car next to mine is smoking with the windows down. | |
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