| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/22/2007 3:57:25 PM | You have to close your car window because the person in the next car is smoking???
So the exhaust fumes from all the other cars and buses and trucks don't bother you enough to make you close your window???
Wow | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/23/2007 3:23:08 AM | yes.
":they" can dictate where a person smokes in a public place.
and apartment shares the 'space" with the other apartments in the building.
i know.
i have quit and restarted smoking quite a few times. I smell smoke in the hallways and from my neighbours. All i have to do is open my kitchen cupboards! Now, being a non smoker is dependant on many things. but constantly smelling the stuff, even in my own apartment, that's a violation of MY privacy.
so, yes, i think they need to either take it to the balcony, or the building could create a public smoking area.
that's my two cents worth. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/26/2007 7:28:59 PM | Oh Yeah banning smoking in Apartments?
Does anyone stop to think that this is a distraction tactic?
If anything the government should look at banning major pollution causing company's and Industries. We cannot tolerate smokers like before because our air, water and food is polluted..
So let's say for arguements sake we eliminate cigarettes all together.
No more smoking.
Will cancer be reduced?
People dying for unknown reasons..heart attack...oh yeah right...never smoked..never drank..excercised regularly...ate organically...no stress...and still croaked.
What an illusion the Government has going on.
Why don't they try looking at mold in buildings...toxic building materials? Harmfull emmisions.
This is just a smoke screen (pardon the pun)to what is the reality.
Ok let's go back into our little dream world. Stop smokers! And we will be pollution free! Healthier!
Please feel free to share your comments as you allowed me. I apprecaite all the posters comments here. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/26/2007 7:36:10 PM | | Ban it completely. Or continue to allow it, and those who take the risk suffer the consequences and pay extra for their health care. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/27/2007 5:26:19 AM | Risk suffering the consequences and paying extra for 'their' health care.....as a smoker, I think that's fair.
Of course, it follows that anyone who takes risks should suffer the consequences and pay extra for their health care - hmmmm....who'd be in that category?
skiers
skateboarders
bladers
bicyclists
runners
police officers
firefighters
doctors/nurses
hunters
boaters
anyone who drives a car
motorcyclists
anyone who eats at McDonalds
miners
k....I could be at this for hours. Everyone takes risks - if one group should pay more for choosing to take risks, then everyone that requires medical care because of the risks they've taken....should pay more too.
silly argument | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/27/2007 3:42:52 PM | I do pay extra for my healthcare.
I pay $5.50 a pack extra in 'sin tax' that should be going directly to support smoking related illness.
With a 13.7 BILLION surplus, this should be a no brainer.
What about people on welfare having more kids. Thats a major risk and a major drain on our resources.
What about the thousands of people out there spreading STD's?
What about drug addicts (who get FREE treatment to help them kick thier habit).
What about alcoholics? Who also get FREE treatment.
I feel anyone who drinks, does drugs, or has unprotected intercourse with someone has no right in telling me about the risk I am taking.. at least i am paying for my future treatment upfront. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/27/2007 4:13:07 PM | I agree. A major pet peeve for me is bicyclists who insist its their right to bicycle in traffic. It may be their right, but what sane person will stand up for rights in front of a moving vehicle??? Major health costs, huge drain on the medical system for the care of brain injured....
Oh....and those roads, the ones we car drivers subsidize through our gas tax, tire tax, license fees, and insurance.....bicyclists get to ride on those roads for free. And to complain about the traffic and the lack of courtesy of drivers. Ooooo - major off topic.
Smoking is a legal activity, the product is legal, and regulated by the various levels of government. As long as we obey the rules, and the majority do, then the rest of the folks should leave us be. If our smoking bothers you, and we're abiding by the rules, then go away. If you're in an area where smoking's permitted, leave.
Its just simply that simple. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/27/2007 4:55:57 PM | | Instead of banning smoking in all apartments, I'd rather see the govt. allow landlords to have a real choice, meaning if they say no smoking, they can actually evict someone for persistently smoking. Given free choice, I'm sure many landlords would go smoke free if they thought they could do something about non compliance, as insurance rates are cheaper. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/27/2007 6:49:37 PM | I have my own insurance. I paid a security deposit to cover any "damages" might occur in my rental place.
The gov't has already lost the battle for controlling what legal activities goes on in your own home.
If landlords don't want the 'issue' stop being landlords.
I am more annoyed by the drunks arguing in the next apartment. I don't have to be concerned about having to call the cops when someone lights a ciggarette.
Or having someone puking outside my door cause they smoked too much.
Or having to "rescue" someone from a boyfriend that only got abusive when he has a smoke.
Or dealing with the crying jags cause he had one smoke to many and now thinks i am his best friend.
How many poeple would stand up and say YAY! if the gov't banned alcohol from restaraunts?Seriously, how do you get home if you have a drink without drinking and driving anyway? | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/28/2007 1:45:06 AM |
Instead of banning smoking in all apartments, I'd rather see the govt. allow landlords to have a real choice, meaning if they say no smoking, they can actually evict someone for persistently smoking. Given free choice, I'm sure many landlords would go smoke free if they thought they could do something about non compliance, as insurance rates are cheaper.
Sure. As long as bars, restaurants, theatres, offices, industrial facilities, government offices, parks, and other areas have the option to go Smoking or Non-smoking, or install smoking areas/rooms.
Oh wait, they don't have that option...
Even if a landlord of a bar wants to allow smoking, and the entire staff agrees to work in a smoking establishment, and every customer who goes there says it's okay to smoke, they can't. Yes, choice sounds great as long as you are the one choosing what everyone else gets to do. I'd love that kind of choice too.
And for those harping about the death toll from smoking, how about you look at the real causes of mortality and spiralling healthcare costs in Canada and the USA...
Oh wait, it's not smoking is it? It's obesity. Over-consumption, poor exercise habits, high fat, high cholesterol, large portions, high sugar, sodium and fat diets.
How about we impose an obesity tax. We can have doctors weigh people, then penalize them based upon how much over standard body mass they are. While we're at it, we can also scale it with cholesterol and sodium counts while we're at it. Then, they could forward pay into the health system through an increased income tax, and thus cover their own future health costs as well as the losses to the economy in sick days, lost productivity, extra fuel consumption, and ongoing social care costs for people who die and leave children behind, etc, etc.
Wait... that would be discrimination wouldn't it? And you're not hurting anyone are you?
Well, except for the serious social costs to yourself, and everyone around you through your high tax/health burden, etc, etc. And let's not forget your poor eating and exercise habits being mirrored and imposed upon your children. Yes, let's not forget the children! Maybe we should impose fines on parents who feed their children McDonald's, Pizza and Chocolate bars.
Perhaps we could monitor what groceries and foods people buy, then we could run random Consumption audits and if the diets are too unhealthy we could then impose an additional surtax on the parents in order to pay forward into the health care system to cover their reckless dining.
While we're at it, why don't we have Incense/no-incense buildings? That stuff can't be good for your lungs. Not to mention I shouldn't need to be subjected to things like scented candles and the smell of lamp oils. We could also ban open-pan frying while we're at it. The volatilization of hydrocarbon oils through cooking does all sorts of damage and surely must have long term health effects. And let's not forget about barbeques. They not only put CO2 in the air, but they put tons of hydrocarbon compounds and carcinogenic products into the the air and food. Maybe we could also ban the use of ammonia based cleaners. Pro and anti-Windex buildings. Those fumes are pretty dangerous too with the way they can form acid in your lungs. Let's not forget banning stereo's and radios. After all, it's a proven fact that people lose their hearing at anything above 85 decibals.
Or maybe we could just be a little rational and accept that there are certain levels of responsibility. If you don't want to smell booze, don't go in a cigar bar. If you don't want to smell like smoke, work in a non-smoking area/job.
Everyone wants the government to do everything for them.
Things not right in your life? Call the government!
Don't like what your neighbor is doing? Call the government!
Television programs distasteful? Call the government!
And let's not forget the universal call of the politically correct...
Save the childrens!
Or parents could teach their children how to make choices and accept that not everything in life is going to be what they want. It's called Tolerance.
As for second hand smoke, the link with second hand smoke only works if you are exposed regularly to the stuff (as in employed at a cigar bar). And even then, there are far worse levels of toxic pollutants at work-places. You don't see people saying that a factory can't use benzene or paint thinners. They just say that you need to supply filtration masks or adequate ventilation. And for those that claim there is no minimum safe level of second hand smoke, that's a COMPLETE CROCK.
What they mean is that there has NOT been ONE single study regarding minimum PPM levels of tobacco-smoke borne pollutants and health risks done... EVER. In other words, no government or agency has ever funded such a study, and as such they have absolutely, positively NO CLUE what would constitute a definably low level of health risk. There are acceptable EPA/OSHA guidelines for everything from benzene to VOC's, mercury, CO, arsenic, etc in terms of water, air, etc. If they can have an acceptable level of fumes for these substances (some of which are extremely toxic with well-documented short and long-term health hazards), there is most certainly a level of minimal risk for tobacco smoke.
Joe Blow walking past a random smoker may have an increased probability of lung cancer, but the statistical probability is so frikken low you would be better off betting on him being struck by lightning. While you're at it, you would get a far worse health effect from a typical smog alert day, walking past a car exhaust tail pipe, or eating barbeque'd meat (don't tell me you didn't know that anything that is char-broiled is carcinogenic?).
Unfortunately, most everyone has an agenda and somewhere along the line the facts have gotten completely lost or ignored. And in the end, smoking will probably end up being banned. However, it won't be because they couldn't have found a way to keep the health risks of non-smokers at negligible levels. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 5/28/2007 5:33:22 AM |
While we're at it, why don't we have Incense/no-incense buildings?
This is hilarious.. my ex-MIL was "deathly allergic" to ciggarette smoke, but would burn "religious" inscnece and wash the smoke over her all the time...
"But this is GOOD smoke" she would say.... | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/8/2007 5:28:12 PM | I totally agree. I just started living in a apt in the last few months with a young child. My hallways in the winter smell like an ashtray. It is boiler heated and the smoke coming into my apt from the vents. THAT is a Violation of my privacy. If I wanted to smoke in my apt that is my choice but I don't think it is fair for me and my son to have to smell it in the privacy of our apt. I don't let people smoke around me or my son inside, or at least we are outside when friends do. What kind of health concern is my son going to have from second hand smoke. I agree that there should be non-smoking bldgs and ones that allow it.
Unfortunately I didn't think about it when I moved in. When I saw the apt and bldg it didnt smell like an ashtray. It is so bad sometime that I spray Febreeze around the apt. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/9/2007 10:09:53 PM | Yeah, I totally feel the same way. Except my neighbours cook a mean curry. The smell makes me physically ill. I have vomitted, have had migraines triggered, have the stuff clinging to my clothing and when I open my apartment door the curry cloud is waiting to seep into my private residence and stink up the place.
I think they should ban curries in apartment buildings. In fact, I think they should ban all fragrant spices. There is nothing just in having your apartment smelling like your neighbour's dinner.  | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/16/2007 3:46:05 PM | [Banning smoking in ones own apartment is going too far!!! I quit 'cause I know smoking was going to kill me - so I did the right thing - but I know smokers who simply cannot and are not ready to quit and to tell them they can't smoke in the privacy of their own home is way overboard!!!!
Get rid of alchohol as well if you want whats right for the public safety!!!!!]
re the alcohol ... if a person in an apartment below me is having a drink, I'm not going to get drunk on his drinks fumes, but if he smokes it eventually permeates into my lungs ....
so to be a fair sport ... I'd make smokers wear a special helmet that would collected all the smoke exhalations and scrub the air before expelling it .... see I'm fair ... and he could smoke to his hearts content ... mmmm ... maybe I should look into increased health premiums ... | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:22:10 PM | I pay $5.50 a pack extra in 'sin tax' that should be going directly to support smoking related illness.
That is an invalid argument. If you smoked a pack a day that is only $2,000 a year. That will never cover the cost of treatment for smoking related illness. It costs $2,000 for one bed in a hospital for one day.
You are costing me tax money by smoking. You should smoke five packs a day to try and save us some money.
Arguing that something besides smoking is worse and costs more is arguing the shit you just took on my food isn't as bad as the other guys because it wasn't as much. No matter how you look at it, you can't polish a turd. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:46:39 PM | I think in apartment buildings where there can be a high turnover rate it is a good idea. Being a non-smoker, and an apartment hunter it is very annoying to find a great place, but have to turn it down because of the smell of smoke in everything. I have no intention of bringing my belongings into a room and suck up the smell.
That said, it is your right to smoke if you wish to, and I'm not going to be the one to tell you to stop. But being curtious of others who dont want to smoke is kinda nice. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/16/2007 9:05:45 PM | Nascar;
It's actually $200 a day.. not $200 (recent personal experience with a family member) see other threads. And thats just ONE source.
Note that obesity puts more of a strain on the health care system than the blanket "smoking related causes".
Also note that One car generates as much toxic fumes in one minute of operation then a pack of smokes. And those "high performance" gas guzzlers that smog up the city each year down on the lake front are not helping things.
And your analogy is wrong. You have the option to take your plate inside before i take a dump on it.
Regardless.. i should be free to do any legal thing in my own home. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/16/2007 9:56:00 PM | | I quit smoking 5 years ago, but I think the government is going too far. As long as smoking is legal then you should be allowed to smoke, especially in your own home. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/17/2007 6:35:55 AM | I'm not arguing that you shouldn't be able to smoke in your own home, however; an apartment building owner should be able to say whether you can smoke in his building or not.
As far as the argument that smoking pays for itself, you do not take into account anything other than hospitalization and smoking has far more impact than that. There is no winnable argument that smoking pays for its own detrimental affects.
From CBC: (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/smoking/cost.html)
They estimate that, in Canada, the societal costs attributable to smoking for 1993 were approximately $11 billion, of which $3 billion was spent on direct health care costs such as hospitalization and physician time. The remaining $8 billion was due to lost productivity. In comparison, it is estimated that in 1993/94, revenue from taxes on cigarettes totalled $2.6 billion.
In order to pay for itself in 1993, taxes would have to be 4.23 times higher. The taxes on cigarettes in 2007 are not 4.23 times higher than in 1993.
From The Ontario Tobacco Research Unit (2002) (http://www.otru.org/pdf/updates/update_may2002.pdf)
dollar costs attributable to smoking-related disease are $17.5 billion for Canada, significant components being $2.6 billion in health care costs and $2.4 billion in sick days. Two recent studies demonstrate that each percentage-point decline in the revalence (sic) of smoking could save $65-97 million in health care costs in Canada.
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It is still legal and I respect the right of people who choose to smoke. If your choice impacts others health, as it does by smoking in a multi-unit dwelling then that should be looked at. If you own your own place I have no problem with you smoking there, but if you don't and the owner wishes to make it smoke free, I think that is an option the owner should have.
Sure. As long as bars, restaurants, theatres, offices, industrial facilities, government offices, parks, and other areas have the option to go Smoking or Non-smoking, or install smoking areas/rooms.
Oh wait, they don't have that option...
And they shouldn't because those are public places. There is a big difference between public places and your own home. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/17/2007 9:05:43 AM | Ontario apartments should be smoke free including the hallways and entrances.
It's too easy for a tenant to harass another tenant with cigarettes.
Ontario apartments should also be drug free. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/17/2007 12:43:23 PM | Non smoker here...
Why not just have smoking and non smoking apartment buildings if it's that big a deal?
Or how about making the top portions of an apartment building smoking and the bottom non smoking? (smoke rises)
I have asthma and the only time other peoples cigarette smoke bothers me is if the guy in the lobby apartment is having a party and I have to walk by his apartment to get into the building. Then the smoke comes in through the vent to my apartment because I live directly above the guy, so I just stuff the vent and cover it with plastic as a temporary measure. I think the lobby apartments seriously need to be non smoking. Or if the person is blowing it right into my face or I have to walk through a group of 20 smokers to get to the drug store to get my inhalers. 
The people on the floor above me smoke but it doesn't seem to bother me at all. I think if the walls are good and thick between the apartments then we really don't have much to worry about until we go outside and have to deal with the smog rolling in from Toronto.
A friend of mine owns a donut shop here in Ajax (Cross Country Donuts) with a patio and I nearly killed myself laughing when I saw a public health notice that he was putting up, no smoking under the canopy! Are you seriously kidding me here? It's like maybe one step out to be out from under the canopy for people to smoke! Like that one little step is gonna keep the non smokers like me safe, give me a break. That's his area for his smokers, leave it alone for crying out loud.
And if we do get rid of smoking completely then who is gonna pay for my public health expenses whenever I have a serious attack from one of my allergies or some other thing? | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/17/2007 2:26:55 PM | | I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with a landlord determining whether he/she wants to allow smoking in buildings he/she owns. They have the right to set the conditions upon which they will rent to people. | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/23/2007 1:02:38 AM | what about the water??? what about airwick solids ?that we keep buying to make our internal air smell fragrant???has anybody noticed children acquiring asthma suddenly ???and what about dust mites ??? OMG freshly painted walls, and my favorite, rugs, carry more allergins and dust,
a good book to read is hulda clark the cure for all diseases ...very informative.
FNM> | |
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| Ontario Apartments Smoke Free !!!!!
Posted: 7/23/2007 1:20:34 AM | yahoo !!! finally someone who lives on planet earth, we are just sheep aren't we ???
does any-body know how many chemicals they put in water ??? antibiotics in milk,
aluminum in salt,formaldehyde in wood panelling and foam chairs, new clothing too,
chromium, in water softener salts freon in refrigeratorswe are so worried about smoking agree no smoking anywhere ... why do you think no-one has though of that yet???? let me think.... MONEY
FNM> | |
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