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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/25/2007 4:01:34 PM | I have written to you privately because I will not encourage anyone to turn a discussion of the Dharma into a spectacle of the kind already seen in the usual kinds of Internet forum sabre-play.
I hope you don't get offended that I don't read it til tomorrow or something... I've had enough of folks wrongfully placing their beliefs above others for one day.
Another gem you folks may enjoy is "Present Moment, Wonderful Moment" by Thich Nhat Hanh... I know I mentioned him already, but it's a real good book full of insight. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/25/2007 4:22:18 PM | Simmah,
You can practice Buddhism without changing your faith.
The teachings are about how to be aware and transcend suffering.
Not what to believe.
you can practice Buddhism along with any religion.
Feel free to disregard and ignore anything that doesn't make sense to you.
Or anything you feel conflicted about.
Trust me, if The Buddha was alive, he wouldn't mind.
Cus Buddhism isn't about believing this or that.
It is about knowing.
Certain aspects makes sense to one practitioner but are above another one's head.
Just go slow and absorb ONLY what resonates with you.
Don't worry about the rest or think you don't get it.
I was raised Christian and do Buddhist meditation only.
It works for me.
Once, when I was listening to our Lama talk about a very deep subject I said
I couldn't understand it and so couldn't possibly believe what he said.
Everyone there gasped.
But our Lama smiled and gently said:
"If it is not true, then don't waste your energy thinking about it?
If it is true, you will know it in time if you practice.
Never believe anything I say.
Always SEE if what I say is true and works for you.
Try it out for yourself!"
I like that.
I've gotten tired of always hearing "Believe this or else" by the other McFaiths. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/25/2007 4:45:11 PM | To clarify and in conclusion, here is a description the five Skandha - which are not-identical with the six sense-bases. Those are described later, to avoid confusion. I will not bother with any more nonsensical argument of a personal nature.
1. form: Substantiveness, the chemical and mineral elements of which the body is composed, shape. And primordial ignorance, perhaps.
2. feelings: these are the senses – and their associated sense-perceptions are:
3. perceptions: Apperceptions such as thoughts, sights, sounds, and so on: eye-sense, ear-sense – the organ of perception and its associated ‘mind’.
Where we are discussing the second and third skandhas, of sensation and perception, that’s where the manifold binaries of attraction and repulsion begin to arise as duality. Where tension to hold and impulse to repel begin to drive one toward:
4. volition and reaction: Intending to do things. Karma (action) and result karma (consequence) arise as the fruit of responding, or non-responding. Liking and not liking arise, then from that condition arises reactivity. Specifically, reactions and reactionary behavior rather than freedom and suppleness or enlightened action.
Our form feels things, likes things this way but not that way, perceives things one way or another way. Then volition begins to push or pull harder, trying to get more, get less, ignore it, or get away from it. Here is grasping/desire and aversion/hatred taking root, from which the remedy takes place according to the disposition of:
5. consciousness, or more particularly, consciousnesses: States of mind. Not a ‘sixth sense or sixth skandha’, but the multiplicity of mental conditions according to which one is not free. To the extent that mind is subject to cittavritti (fluctuations of consciousness), freedom and enlightened equipoise don’t arise. We have ‘Aha!’ moments but they are not stable and don’t arise fully until we begin to apply the remedy: by whichever translation of view you want, this can be relied on as meaning: shamatha (calm abiding) and vipassana (clearly discerning). From the stable seat of shamatha, arises samadhi. This incidentally is reliably true of any legitimate form of Buddhist practice. It is probably not true of imaginary dharmas such as those one has made up for oneself.
And I think this may be where the confusion arises:
ANICCA (Impermanence).
It is only when we experience impermanence (anicca) as suffering (dukkha) that you come to the realization of the truth of suffering, the first of the Four Noble Truths basic to the doctrine of the Buddha.
You should know that anicca can also be understood through other types of feeling as well. Anicca can be contemplated through feeling:
1. by contact of visible form with the sense organ of the eye;
Why? Because when you realize the subtle nature of dukkha from which you cannot escape for a moment, you become truly afraid of, disgusted with, and disinclined towards your very existence as mentality-materiality (nama-rupa), and look for a way of escape to a state beyond dukkha, and so to nibbana, the end of suffering. What that end of suffering is like, you will be able to taste, even as a human being, when you reach the level of a sotapanna, a stream-enterer, and develop well enough by practice to attain the unconditioned state of nibbana, the peace within. But even in terms of everyday, ordinary life, no sooner than you are able to keep up the awareness of anicca in practice will you know for yourself that a change is taking place in you for the better, both physically and mentally.
Before entering upon the practice of Vipassana meditation (that is, after samadhi has been developed to a proper level), a student would acquaint oneself with the theoretical knowledge of nama and rupa (name and form). For in Vipassana meditation one contemplates not only the changing nature of matter, but also the changing nature of mentality, of the thought-elements of attention directed towards the process of change going on within matter.
At times the attention will be focused on the impermanence of the material side of existence, i.e., upon anicca in regard to rupa; and at other times on the impermanence of the thought-elements or mental side, i.e., upon anicca in regard to nama. When one is contemplating the impermanence of matter, one realizes also that the thought-elements simultaneous with that awareness are also in a state of transition or change. In this case one will be knowing anicca in regard to both rupa and nama together;
2. by contact of sound with the sense organ of the ear;
3. by contact of smell with the sense organ of the nose;
4. by contact of taste with the sense organ of the tongue;
5. by contact of touch with the sense organ of the body;
6. and by contact of mental objects with the sense organ of the mind.
All I have said so far relates to the understanding of anicca (impermanence) through bodily feeling of the process of change of rupa (or matter) and also of thought-elements depending upon such changing processes.
Those are the six SENSE BASES, not accurately ‘six skandha’.
Notes:
At one time, the ancient Sangha posited a ‘sixth skandha’ according to the Pudgalavadin argument. Pudgalavadins suggested a ‘sixth skandha’ of mind, termed pudgala, in order to conceptually describe how rebirth might occur. However, it was not clear by what mechanism any link could exist from one life to another life. Since that time, it has been clarified that karma (accumulation of wisdom and merit or their absence) are the active means through which rebirth occurs. (The Pudgalavadin school became extinct less than three hundred years after Lord Buddha turned the Dharma wheel).
There is one other somewhat provisional invention of a so-called ‘sixth skandha’ and that is within the Kalachakratantra. However, it is also arguable that this so-called sixth is a product of meditation i.e, is a result of enlightened intention (Fifth Skandha) and is not inherently present within the Five Skandha of:
Form
Feeling
Perception
Volition
Consciousness.
************************
What to tell you? Buddhism has lots of lists . Some may not like that. They are nothing to be afraid of though :) | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/25/2007 4:51:39 PM | To clarify and in conclusion, here is a description the five Skandha - which are not-identical with the six sense-bases. Those are described later, to avoid confusion. I will not bother with any more nonsensical argument of a personal nature.
While I thank you, that was my point... All I was saying is there are six senses in Buddhism... Thats it. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/25/2007 4:56:09 PM | One you might like a lot was written by Venerable Gyatrul Rinpoche and is called 'Ancient Wisdom - Nyingma teachings on Dream Yoga, Meditation and Transformation' . It's publisher is Snow Lion. And anything by Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche or Tulku Thondup Rinpoche is a wonderful view, whether just for comparison or from a practical standpoint.
I mention these kind persons because they lived exemplary lives (Thondup R. still lives and gives teachings near Cambridge, Massachusetts), and really held the full empowerment to turn the Dharma wheel for everybody's benefit.
Best wishes to Everyone :) | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/25/2007 7:49:29 PM | ^^^That's actually very interesting... I just may have to pick that up.
I'm starting to research lucid dreaming and trying to relate it to what I've learned...
I like the sound of dream yoga... I've been lucid dreaming since I was a child and always had problems deciding where it fits in with everything.
It's tough to keep sleeping once you realise you're dreaming, but it can be done. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/25/2007 8:44:43 PM | Hey man, there is another WONDERFUL text by the Bonpo Lama, Tenzin Wanggyal - I think it is called exactly that, Dream Yoga.
Actually I got pretty far off the track after something sexy reignited my interest in yoga and magic, by trying to datamine and extrapolate from various sources.. it is completely natural for a curious person to do that, and with such a feast of books from so many disciplines I know I felt as happy as a pig in sh-t.
Cut a long story short, I wound up with what is called a lung disorder or imbalance of vital wind, and it was quite a surprise when suddenly my exwife, our first two children, and myself were forcefully adopted by the guru (I had a big argument with one of her students whom my exwife knew somewhat).
The medicine in my case is an ongoing course. I caution others to try to nail the basics and not to rush ahead over the Four truths, because no matter how sexy the Vajrayana is intellectually and psychospiritually, without some ground-in basis in stubborn old Hinayana ethics and selfrestraint there is a very real possibility of just going mad. Lots of western students do, you know, and it is hard to treat the illness when the sufferer has already distorted part of the cure. It shortens the lama's life to have to come and rescue us from falling off the mountain :0|
Best wishes! | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/25/2007 8:56:54 PM | That was in 1996, early spring/summer. Since then, so many changes and many of them cataclysmic I suppose, probably due to my own rascally behavior. However, the two little ones more than make up for lost hope and shaky faith. They both are recognized former students of our teacher, and have a tremendous clarity and kindness with intensely ethical purpose that the two older ones - and sadly, both of us idiotic parents - do not manifest well at all. It's been a long strange climb and the territory is frightening at times. Nobody told me going in that to 'lose everything, lose the world' - might be literal.
Most of all what I hope for is that others don't fall into the same holes we did. I'm sure everyone has heard a really intelligent person can learn from the mistakes of others? Well, I am sure you are all really intelligent, so - don't be like me :0) | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 1:27:16 AM | In spite of its title, and somewhat kooky graphic layout (which is actually a lot of fun), the 'for Dummies' text is just fine as far as it goes.
If you like COMIC BOOKS a la marvel (hey, somebody will...), there is a really fine title known as the 'Magic Life of Milarepa' by a Ms von Lustbader that is just bang on accurate too, per the hagiographical accounts of Tibet's great yogi's life and accomplishments.
Some time ago, an old Dharma clown made some linked pages here:
http://www.members.aol.com/alikali123/sno_mo/snomo.htm
which are still functioning, and are interlinked to a great number (hundreds as I recall) of sites worth a pot-luck browse.
Best Wishes :) | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 8:51:33 AM | Hmmm... I just looked over the last page of posts... I misunderstood part of what you were saying... Off the top when you wrote five skandhas for some reason I read senses... Since the different aspects of personality had nothing to do with what I was saying and you seemed to be addressing my post, I thought you mistakenly meant five senses... Sorry about that, it was a negative day for me.
We still differ a bit on other interpretations of the teachings, but that is the nature of the teachings.
Be Peace | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 9:23:35 AM |
I always like to say that the paradox is that there is no paradox.
LOL LOL LOL Stone, aw jeez, now you've done it. I shall be forever stuck in chapter 4.
"Through the rise and fall of empires, through creation of vast bodies of symbols that give shape to our dreams; through the forging of magic keys with which to unlock the mysteries of creation...through it all we are marching from epoch to epoch towards the fullest realisation of our soul.
Yes, we are coming, the pilgrims, one and all- coming to our true inheritance of the world, we are ever broadening our consciousness, ever seeking a higher and higher unity; ever approaching nearer to the one universal truth which is the All - comprehensive all embracing."
-Rabindranath Tagore, 1861-1941
"for the raindrop, joy is entering the river..." Mirza Ghalib, Urdu Poet
Better stop for now, lol
Cheers, Raven | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 10:19:31 AM | I'm stuck with being a critical reader - the a li ka li is my own nature.
I read this:
Five skandhas? There are six... When you google Ayatana you will see this western misconception of the Buddhas teachings.
and disputed the error.
I wrote on the basis of what I know to be true of the Dharma and not on the basis of personal hostility. I will not place in quotes the several extraordinary reactions my words elicited from you.
I rely on unbroken lineage transmission of the Dharma through the Nyingmapa over unconventional sources such as the Internet, and stated so.
My manner of assertion and dispute is characteristic of Dharma debate and would be to many a familiar means of establishing whether or not one has absorbed the content or is a) hoping to make it up along the way or b) blindly reiterating undigested factoids heard here and there.
Nyingmapa means 'Old School' in every sense :) | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 10:22:28 AM | correction:
lineage transmission of the Dharma through the Nyingmapa over unconventional sources
should read:
..lineage transmission of the Dharma through the Nyingmapa in preference to unconventional sources.. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 2:11:30 PM | lineage transmission of the Dharma through the Nyingmapa in preference to unconventional sources..
Yes, but the Dharma itself was unconventional at one point... It came from Hinduisms Dharma so if you want to get technical, Hinduism is the old school.
I take what makes sense to me from the Dharma and disregard the rest just as Buddha says we should do and just as he did... If we all have the Buddha within, why shouldn't we try to get the Dharma the same way he did? It's nice to have people to guide us through the Dharma, but the truth can only come from within...
Like the old Zen saying-- Do not mistake the finger pointing to the moon for the moon itself.
And yes I already conceded the point where I was mistaken... I mistook your posting skandhas for senses(but I thought you were debating what I said to Raveninns) not sure why, but I know of the lists, lol! Plus instead of correcting me then by saying I was mistaking the Skandhas for the senses, I would've conceded and neither one of us would think the other was ignorant... But as you can see we still disagree on other points but that's ok... My rose will never look like your rose... That's just the way it goes, and it's alright.
But even though this is a pretty good debate(now, anyways) we shouldn't hijack the thread... I'll likely start one in 12 hours or so when I get back from work that should fit with the conversation... Hopefully you'll join in. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 3:00:04 PM |
LOL LOL LOL Stone, aw jeez, now you've done it. I shall be forever stuck in chapter 4.
RavenInns;
Ummm, not to prejudge or anything, but I think with the mindset you're in now, you would absolutely Love "Infinate Circle" by Bernie Glassman...
Chapter 4 is "Letting go" and chapter 7 is "Letting go of letting go".
I really dig this book... In the first little bit he quotes The Heart of the Perfection of Great Wisdom Sutra and then says what he got out of it... Very good stuff in my opinion! | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 4:32:32 PM | Agreed, love to.
I think you'd be aware of my likely response to the 'dharma is within' platform, likewise 'The Buddha realized in his own way, why shouldn't I?' argument, and the egregiously misapplied 'Kill the Buddha' shriekfest, but unless we were proceeding from the same basis and with equivalent understanding and intent, it would not be a useful dialogue. So that can lie where it fell.
My view of conversations that bear the signs of 'young bull vs old bull' : all bull. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/26/2007 11:51:20 PM | My view of conversations that bear the signs of 'young bull vs old bull' : all bull.
Yeah, me too... But that's not what this is... This is just a differing of opinion... I'm sure it can be done without calling people ignorant don't you?
Your interpretation of the Dharma is no more "true" than mine... I practice meditation and compassion, follow the eightfold path and I read the teachings and look within for the rest... If you feel that's beneath you, I'm sorry but alot of folks would disagree.
I think you'd be aware of my likely response to the 'dharma is within' platform, likewise 'The Buddha realized in his own way, why shouldn't I?' argument, and the egregiously misapplied 'Kill the Buddha' shriekfest, but unless we were proceeding from the same basis and with equivalent understanding and intent, it would not be a useful dialogue
So what? What would we learn if we agreed on everything? What works for you may not work for me... But learning from one another, taking what makes sense and disregarding the rest is very healthy in my opinion. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/27/2007 11:02:03 AM | My position would have been similar to your own at one time.
Suggest "Heart Treasure of the Enlightened Ones" by Khyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
The sparks from Mme Blavatsky's syncretist bonfire set a stage for the still-vogueish 'smorgasbord of spirituality'. There are a variety of reasons why efforts have been given to make the Dharma palatable to Western seekers - some of them more pragmatic than compassionate, perhaps.
A terse statement such as 'the book is not the place' will carry different resonance depending on whether one approaches from the samsaric view or from the side of enlightenment, and the two views separate according to whether one's interest is primarily speculative or primarily practical.
If speculative, then that will give rise to a raft of conceptualizations which serve to case-harden a common form of spiritual materialism. The modern West is full of self-declared teachers and their acolytes, but that is not how the Buddhadharma is practiced.
If practical, that will lead without error to a contemplation of the Dharma as it is actually practiced, and when causes and conditions are ripe, one will definitely meet the Teachers.
Reading a book on joinery does not qualify one to build a house. There are practical steps to accomplishing any practical desire, and because I am a practical person I accept the wisdom and skillful means of those who have been apprenticed to living masters. Having tried to build a house based on my own speculative and theoretical notions, and my own sense of self-adequacy, I have seen that the results were poor and that a great deal of time was wasted. Because I can already see that old age is approaching, and that favourable conditions can't always be assumed, I put myself aside and became an apprentice too. I just didn't want to waste time and materials any more.
My apparently conservative position comes from simple respect for the Three Jewels: Buddha - the enlightened mind infallibly revealing the cause and the end of suffering; Dharma - the path which leads away from suffering in cyclic existence; Sangha - the community of enlightenment which supports my effort on the path.
I accept the truth that suffering is the condition of beings like myself whose minds are not free, and who wander through samsara from disaster to disaster. I accept the truth that this suffering arises due to ignorance, attachment, and aversion. I accept the truth of impermanence, which gives me reason to also accept that the causes for suffering are not only impermanent but soluble; and I accept the truth of the path (Dharma) that leads from suffering to the cessation of suffering.
Not everyone has the same personal motivation and not everyone will agree with my conclusions - of course. In general, we will 'run to the end of our tether' before we drop flat on the earth and fess up that we are beat. As long as diversions, distractions, fleeting pleasures and sudden emotions keep us in a state of excitement and attachment, we are not yet fully sickened with self and sickened with samsara.
When the time comes the teacher appears.
In my fantasy, I thought I had to accumulate more information, gain more experience, make love in more fabulous ways with more exotic women, vanquish more enemies, and generally 'be somebody special' before I could meet the teachers.
I became very early on, magnetized by such things as the tales of old soldiers and men of the world, dusty books brought back from India and France, the visions of drug poets such as Coleridge and the antics of nineteenth-century magicians such as Yeats, Crowley and Mathers. I wanted power, and believed that if I could unlock the magicoreligious mysteries of east and west, I would find it. These things appealed because to my way of thinking my family had been ripped off and I resented that my life was one of a penniless and powerless outsider. I wanted revenge, and plenty of it.
All I can tell you is that I had to lose, not acquire, before I could hear one syllable of the truth. I simply hadn't experienced enough illness, disaster, loss and ruin yet.
The 'Life of Milarepa' by Lobsang Lallupa (check sp.) is the most compelling suggestion I can make for anyone who is actually interested in practicing the Dharma. Not everyone is the same as you or I, but the Four Truths haven't been supplanted. Perhaps I am a fanatic believer to you, or an idiot who stumbles along after tradition and can't think for himself. Whatever the case, I did mean well in saying that I would rather accept the words of my lineage masters and kind teachers than something googled up yesterday afternoon and which caught my fancy.
Best wishes :0) | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 10/27/2007 11:11:23 AM | Points in conclusion:
you did type 'five skandhas? there are six..'
I did not 'call you ignorant'.
I did say that if you feel ignorant and defensive, there are probably reasons for that.
I know I do sometimes.
And:
'Life of Milarepa' by Lobsang P. Lhalungpa | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 12/16/2007 2:38:08 PM | As previously mentioned "Awakening the Buddha Within" is an informative, easy to read book which has lots of real world examples.
Does anyone know if a book Called "Zen and the Art of Laughter" exists?
I heard about it a few years ago but have never been able to find it | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 72 | |
| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 12/16/2007 4:27:27 PM | You can try this site ..
http://www.hermetics.org/library/Library_Eastern_Religion.html
or this ..
http://www.buddhanet.net/ftp04.htm
or this
http://www.ciolek.com/WWWVLPages/BuddhPages/EResources.html
They all have downloadable files on Buddhism | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 12/17/2007 7:07:16 AM | Throw me in with the Alan Watts crowd, he was one of the first Western writers I was exposed to.
The Gospel According to Zen: Beyond the Death of God
- Robert Sohl
Zen in the Art of Archery
Eugen Herrigel.
Those were some of the first books that introduced me to Zen Buddhism, which is quite different from other sects - and to me the most fascinating. | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:01:36 PM | i'm thinking
go rin no sho
you all might possibly think it's childish to spiritually gain from this book, but really it also coincides with "wisdom of the ancients" by lobsang rampa. they introduced me into the way of the sword and my overall sunny disposition regarding just about anything in life. that and on the subject of books in general, who here likes tom wolfe? i think he's a real comedian and great storyteller. well i'm pleased to put something in this thread. seeya | |
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| Looking for a good book on Buddhism
Posted: 12/17/2007 5:54:44 PM | Circling the Sacred Mountain by Robert Thurman and Tad Wise ~
Wise chronicles their circumambulation of Mount Kailash in Tibet and Thurman provides dharma commentary....though I am not a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism, I learn something new every time I reread this book.... Thurman delivers a wickedly thorough commentary on the ancient Blade Wheel of Mind Reform teaching (if this text does not rip your ego to shreds, nothing will) and this alone is worth the price of the book....
I would not recommend this book for newcomers to the middle path ~ it is definitely NOT an easy read and would likely raise more questions than it would answer.... however, if you are a serious dharma student it is a MUST read....
ps for the traveling guy ~ Tom Wolfe rules.... | |
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