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Ron9
| | Joined: 8/10/2004
Msg: 76 | |
| | Why are people monogamous?Page 4 of 10 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) | I write my own rules of what is right to me. Someone could show me 50 places in The Bible were having multiply mates is the way it is suppose to be and I would still not be interested in it.
Up until about 3 years ago I had only been with the one female for close to twenty years and that was fine with me - I preferred it over all this fast and easy sex out there.
*Tee* your post #8 was very nice. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 9:25:41 PM | Something immoral is wrong everywhere and everytime, something is ethically right or wrong depending only on the accepted rules of the Society in which you live.
You sort of got that right. Ethics is a sytem of morality that applies to society. Morality, although SOME people would like to think it's universal, is quite personal. Monogamy is about morality, a personal decision. When a society steps in to prescribe one morality, then it has turned into ethics. Without the laws of the state, polygamy would be left to the morality of the invididual to decide whether he or she would feel morally correct to enter a relationship with multiple spouses. When the law dictates that polygamy is unlawful, then it becomes a matter of ethics--for an entire society to abide.
Of course, we agree on what ethics is, but not everyone agrees that morality is universal. It can be quite personal. We could probably argue this to death . . . 
You're a lawyer, and if I were you, I'd go back to where I attended law school and kick the law profs who didn't teach you that there are two ways to see morality. Oh, how I hate bad teachers!
And that's why people who support polygamy actually have a point: it's about personal freedom. I don't agree with it because, personally, I don't like the idea. But they've got a point. Damn, I might be a libertarian. Ain't that a kick in the ass. I've always thought I was a conservative Democrat. :) | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 9:27:57 PM | Re message 75:
I don't know how to do quotes here, but the first poster asked 2 questions: why are we monogamous? why do we feel compelled to stay faithful to one person for as long as we are together?
The word 'monogamy' can refer to the practice of having only one spouse, but it can also refer to simply having only one sexual partner. I think I tried to address both aspects. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 9:40:12 PM | It says do not commit adultery. Adultery is defined as sexual intercourse between a man and a married woman who is not his wife. PERIOD.
Nice of you to agree with me then try to say I don't know crap about what I am saying. When I think of Monogamous I am thinking of that good ole relationship thing of man and woman.
It pisses me off that married people cheat. Now if you want to make excuses for why you have sex with a hundred women, that is your problem. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:11:59 PM | Haven't read every post here, so I may be repeating what others have said. Monogamy makes a lot of sense when:
1. If it ever gets to sex, you are much less likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases, unless they are inherited in the first place. In fact barring knowing the sexual history of your partners partners, you are much better off knowing that both of you have no risk from other partners in the first place. For someone who plays with everyone on the block and has sex with them, the risk becomes too high. So monogamy rules there.
2. Then there is the issue of trust. How do you know that one of their other partners won't become jealous when they learn about you, and try to fight you off? How do you know that if you have children with them, they won't automatically assume it was from a different date, and they decide to take their child and run. Custody battles are ugly. How many want that? And then how do you know that you won't be left back in the dating game because they decide for whatever reason the grass is greener with their other date, and they drop you like a hot potato for some trivial detail that you could never defend yourself about. A monogamous relationship means that once you get into it, you are willing to suffer, and enjoy whatever the consequences of being in a relationship are with that person. Love is strong enough that no amount of suffering will move you apart. If you choose the monogamist path, you won't be as likely to divorce because of mistrust.
3. You can only be with so many people at a time. If you had been relying on that date to be your person for awhile, and you discover they aren't, you are stuck with trying to find other ways to spend your time on your own. Sure you can live on your own and have nothing but friends your entire life. But what about if you got sick? What if you wanted to go places where transit can't take you, and driving is farther than you can do on your own without falling asleep. Then what? Monogamy means you'll have another person that you can always enjoy your life with together. Start going polygamous, you have no idea who you'll rely on but yourself again. You might as well have not gotten into the dating scene to begin with. Sure I can rely entirely on myself my entire life. But that's selfish. To really be with another person you have to overcome your selfishness. Monogamy means you are dedicated to that one person and they are to you.
Sure you can have many friends, but really one will be the one you want to be with forever. Thus far have not found her. So I'm here. While I enjoy life, I feel like I have so much to share. And I want it to be a truly monogamist relationship. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:31:48 PM | | ^^^^^You are one of the very few; Welcome to the new underground: Monogamy. It's no longer mainstream or trendy. LOL, I wish more people thought like you and actually acted the part! | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:35:08 PM |
The word 'monogamy' can refer to the practice of having only one spouse, but it can also refer to simply having only one sexual partner. I think I tried to address both aspects.
Yes sir, I understand, and appreciated your post. It was just this...
So, are you civilized, do you believe in and follow the ethical rules which guide our Society? Or are you weak of mind and character, giving in to 'natural' urges that don't really make sense today?
Ot maybe it's just this simple: no short term pleasure I might achieve by cheating is worth the long term pain I will cause the person I love. Maybe it's being able to contemplate the pain you will feel if you were on the receiving end, and just being unwilling to do that to anyone else.
Because I don't think I'm "weak of mind and character." Yet I DON'T "follow the ethical rules which guide our Society," if they don't correlate to the ethical rules I've established for myself (DO NO HARM!). I don't "believe" in monogamy, yet have never cheated. I don't "believe" in monogamy, yet have been monogamous, and may be again. Because I decide to be, because it makes me happy, because I get lucky and meet someone who I can please and who pleases me. NOT because I feel "compelled" to be.
Again, I'll repeat: non-monogamy and "cheating" are not synonyms. I'm a non-monogamist by nature/intellect, and a monogamist by chance/accident. And not a cheater. Period. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:37:57 PM | | Can't possibly read all the posts so I will just put in my thoughts. People are not supposed to be monogamous. Most animals are not, humans are no exception. People try to put too much emotional attachment into sex, which can be a wonderful part of it, but can be separated, also. My husband and I found that, while having to live apart, finding other partners was the only logical solution. We are still very much in love, still very devoted. Sex is a physical need. Yes, we can take care of it alone, but why if you don't have to? | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:44:06 PM | ^^^^Alrighty. Are the animals who are monogamous wrong? Come on! Animals are instinctual. We have brains, and we can think and choose! Isn't that wonderful? It's great, isn't it? It's a choice, a conscious decision. To compare us to animals whose behavior is based on instinct is a fallacy. Compare yourself to something else besides a dog in heat--unless, of course, you want others to think that you ARE a dog in heat. Think for yourself! Stop comparing yourself to other species. Geez!
Can't possibly read all the posts so I will just put in my thoughts.
Yes, you can read all the posts. You're just lazy--just like your logic. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:44:32 PM |
Yet I DON'T "follow the ethical rules which guide our Society," if they don't correlate to the ethical rules I've established for myself (DO NO HARM!).
Soon there will be no "ethical rules which guide our Society" in any case. Therefore you will not be an anomaly in following your own rules soon enough. Everything is moving towards the cult of "doing as you feel and everything is acceptable", at least on the surface, and below the surface, the rules of Society are machiavellian for the most part.
I am not suggesting that whatever rules anyone lives by (including yourself) are not somehow noble or have no basis or anything like that, I am simply expressing an observation of mine about "society", which is that we have no rules aside from "might is right", "evolutionary/biological mandate" (which is a social agenda in the first place as so little of what makes us humans tick has to do with biology) and "do anything you want as long as you can justify it intellectually". Just my $0.02. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:50:59 PM | We all have needs
When two people are secure and mature and all of their needs are being taken care of then they can have a monogamous relationship.
I feel that insecurity, immaturity or a lack of needs not being addressed is what causes the cheating. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:51:37 PM |
Soon there will be no "ethical rules which guide our Society" in any case. Therefore you will not be an anomaly in following your own rules soon enough. Everything is moving towards the cult of "doing as you feel and everything is acceptable", at least on the surface, and below the surface, the rules of Society are machiavellian for the most part.
I suspect you misspoke, but oddly I agree. The "rules" of Society ARE machiavellian, for the most part. I prefer mine. Do no harm. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:58:17 PM |
Yes, you can read all the posts. You're just lazy--just like your logic.
 OMFG just becasue I do not feel I can, at almost 1:00 AM, read all these posts without my eyes starting to cross, I am now lazy. Gotta love people who judge.
We ARE animals and yes, SOME of us choose to THINK for ourselves. My husband and I realized that we had a NEED for sex and were not sheepled along into believing it is morally wrong for us to seek that elsewhere. If you choose to be monogamous that is fine, jsut as it is fine for us to choose not to be. It is amazing what can happen when you truly learn to think for yourself. :) | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 11:02:05 PM | Actually, it's been acceptable, and still is acceptable in many cultures. Not only in Islam, but in Judaism as well. How many wives did Abraham have? Also in Brazil today, where there's a 8-1 woman to man ratio, it's actually uncommon for a man NOT to have a mistress besides having a wife.
There are communities in Kenya, for that matter, where the woman has multiple husbands. It's often a matter of socialization, not only biology. Just because monogamy is the case in some cultures, in others' it's not. Environmental phenomena can often force cultures to adapt to the realities of their surroundings, and in cases of high mortality (as an example) societies adapt to make social arrangements that augment the group's chance of survival. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 11:07:35 PM | If you choose to be monogamous that is fine, jsut as it is fine for us to choose not to be.
If you had read my previous posts, then you would know that I wasn't being judgemental about whether you were mongamous or not. Personally, I don't care. Still, admit it--tired or not. You're still being lazy. I'm not judging you for you decision to be either monogamous or not. The only thing I judged was your choice not to read the entire thread. And that's my right and choice! I can judge you if I want. Deal with it! And you can judge me, as you already have: you think I'm judgemental. And you'd be right. I can deal with that!
And part of my point is this: Who cares if someone judges you? What does it matter? It doesn't. And that's thinking for yourself. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/6/2007 11:15:31 PM | And part of my point is this: Who cares if someone judges you? What does it matter? It doesn't.
Ha! True. In both the minor society of POF or the bigger society of ... society, it really doesn't matter. But despite that, because many of us feel a connection with and respect for the people we spar/agree/debate with here, there is sometimes a slight stab of pain when we are judged for our beliefs. Silly? Maybe. Human? Yes. I need to harden myself. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/7/2007 12:14:34 AM |
Nice of you to agree with me then try to say I don't know crap about what I am saying. When I think of Monogamous I am thinking of that good ole relationship thing of man and woman.
It pisses me off that married people cheat. Now if you want to make excuses for why you have sex with a hundred women, that is your problem.
Reading. Comprehension. Good.
You must be a troll, as I cannot possibly believe that you could be so dense. 
**feels the braincells dying in the toxic atmosphere...** | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/7/2007 12:15:03 AM | I got an Answer... Because our God says not to cheat on our partners. Its called Adultry and last time Adultry was openly approved of God destroyed the entire world with a flood.. Got your boat ready?
Our God? Oh, dear. My God told me just today he could not care less who I or you have sex with, as long as IT DOES NO HARM. He's also quite sick of being misquoted, but forgives you. And wants us to feed the starving children. He's finding that harder to forgive. Carry on. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/7/2007 12:31:08 AM | Dogma! I hear dogma! I love dogma! But that's only because the letters "D," "O", "G" comprises that word.
A dogmatic response to a living discussion contributes nothing. I could quote Groucho Marx on the subject of monogamy, but where would it get us? Nowhere.
Geez! I'm a Christian saying this. I must not be a good one! | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/7/2007 1:09:25 AM | Fantastic thread, can't remember all the numbers of the msgs I want to respond to, so will just say...
To the long post (26 I think) who effectively said it was economics. That's one way of looking at it, but when you look at the societies who practise monogany, one notices that in most of those the women aren't actually seen as equals more as chattels. They don't actually get much of a choice in the matter. And I think that's the crux of the matter and where things are changing a bit. In the past it was okay for the guy to have as many women as he wanted, but generally it was only in royalty/upper classes that the same was said for women. In Europe and US this is what has changed, women now have equal rights and therefore are able to play the same game as the men.
Biologically it makes no sense whatsoever to be monogamous, but we are more than just biological beings, there is emotion to take into account and society. Society dictates (in the west - at this point in time) that it is correct to be monogamous. This stems from many things, but probably mainly the church.
To all the religious quotes and comments. Take note that one husband one wife is from the New testament - which is the basis of the Christian church, whereas multiple wives is seen in the old testament - a basis for Judaism and Islam.
When it comes down to just the act of se x then what difference does it make how many partners one has. But if it comes down to relationships, then there is a lot more added besides, emotion, support, joint desires, plans, children etc.
Generally in our society it is easier and more accepted to have monogamous rellies, if only to be accepted by our peers, but also as it fits in with social norms. It is never easy to fly in the face of what is considered correct.
As a smally siding, if one said that watching porn was being unfaithful, if one said that thinking about se x with other partners was being unfaithful (which is somewhere in the bible - thought being the same as deed) then how many can actually say that they are being monogamous?
Why are most monogamous? because generally it is easier, there are so many complications in a relationship, who has the time to do it properly with more than one?
oh yeah and msg 80? being on your own/ relying on your self is selfish? what? how do you make that out? If you look at it, what isn't selfish? eating? breathing? putting clothes on? listening to music? I don't get that at all. People who live on their own look after themselves, doesn't mean they are selfish, just means they look after what is theirs to look after, doesn't make it selfish. You could almost say with that logic that wanting a relationship is the selfish part, I want someone to share my problems - isn't that more selfish? | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/7/2007 1:54:04 AM | ^^^^^Now that's a good post.
But . . .
Biologically it makes no sense whatsoever to be monogamous
Not true. You can look at monogamy from a number of angles and see that it is biologically sound. Look at birds. You will see arguments that go in either direction--and you will especially see arguments that deal with monogamy being the cause of extinction (because they are more sensational according to the MEDIA--because it SELLS), but there are more arguments that affirm that birds are better off monogamously. But guess what? We aren't birds, and our medical technology alone has left the idea of the survival of the fittest obsolete. And that means that we don't need the best traits anymore--because medicine will save us. Does a coyote have a doctor? No. So a coyote has to f*ck everything in his path to ensure the survival of his loins. We humans don't have that problem because we have medicine, shelter, community, and THOUGHT. Monogamy, whether right or wrong, has no bearing on our survival as a species. Quit comparing a f*cking mouse to us--because a mouse doesn't have a doctor. We can be monogamous because our biological knowledge--i.e DOCTORS--have made it possible. Oh! And there's this silly emotive motivation--because we are social animals--within most of us that demands loyalty . . . well, most of us anyway. And if you don't feel that demand for loyalty, then good for you! You are a bit more free than the rest of us. But it has nothing to do with survival. We're beyond that. | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/7/2007 3:38:45 AM | In a modern, centrist (left or right of center), moderate, secular, society, PEOPLE are not SUPPOSED to do anything else but adhere to the Constitution and the laws of the land. They are free to do whatever they wish within the constraints of the Constitution and the laws, under free will and no cohersion, i.e. be monoamorous or polyamorous, as long as they are "adults". What the law in most of those countries says is that they can only be" legally married" (in legal "union") to one person (of opposite or same sex in some countries) at the same time! The rest is "choose for yourself" (as an "adult").
This discussion is THUS about factors, dynamics and trends in their PERSONAL choices. A fine, but an important distinction, IMO.
IMV, there are fewer factors, dynamics and trends today to lead a person to be monoamoeous today than there were 20, 50, 70, 100 etc years ago. One of them is the economic independence of women (with an exception to the case of mono parental situtions, some countries subsidize parenthood, some rely on the assumption of 2 individuals ('father' and 'mother') to provide for that, as an obligation). For men and women who do not wish to have children or whose children have reached adulthood, the "burdens" of parenhood do not influence their choice on monoamory vs. non-monoamory (ie oligoamory or polyamory or even no-amory/abstinence). Pretty simple stuff, no?
Then some people bring into the "equation" "chemical" bonding "agent"! Is that the only chemical agent affecting this choice? Maybe the only one known so far! What if new chemical agents of counter effect are detected in the future? Many tests need to be done to confirm the ISOLATED effect of chemical or economic or social or other factors ON INDIVIDUAL choices. Eg do all women release this chemical at same levels after sex? What abou women who do not! Are they to be treated for "deficiency?????????? Oh please!!!! We are not in Salem, MA!
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/7/2007 5:09:31 AM | Msg 97?
I'm a bit confused, are you saying yay to monogamy or nay?
Mind you I don't know what I'm saying either ;-) personally I would always prefer monogamy, but I'm not sure I can totally defend it with good reason.
It's also interesting that many have brought in children as being a reason for being monogamous. That doesn't necesarily follow either, just because a pair have children doesn't stop either from shagging others but still raising the children well.
The assumption seems to be that not being monogamous means not being in a relationship, and I'm not sure that was what the OP asked.
If the question is why do a couple pair for a period of time rather than just having one night stands, then that's an entirely different question to what a lot of posters are answering.
but when you look at the societies who practise monogany, one notices that in most of those the women aren't actually seen as equals more as chattels
I realise that in my post above I said monogamous when I should have stated polygamous | |
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| Why are people monogamous?
Posted: 4/7/2007 2:46:04 PM | And that's why people who support polygamy actually have a point: it's about personal freedom. I don't agree with it because, personally, I don't like the idea. But they've got a point
I recently read, Under the Banner of Heaven, a true story about fundamentalist Mormons, polygamists.
Polygamy is not about freedom, it is about abuse and control.
Young girls usually around the ages of 13 -14 - 15, are married off to men much older than themselves, they have no say in it. They are forced into it. Once they are married, this man has sex with this child. They get away with it because it’s a “religious freedom” they claim entitlement to. Who's protecting these children?
If you, or I forced our 13 year old daughter into marrying a 40 year old man, what do you think would happen? The 13 year old would be taken into protective custody, and the parents would be charged with child abuse.
We are all entitled to religious freedom, but not at the expense of chldren.
The only ones who have freedom in polygamous marriages are the men. | |
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