| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 12:51:37 PM | I think the Canadian Armed Forces are professional and decently equipped.
Your LAVIII's and RG-31's are getting beat to death in The Stan and will need replacing or major overhaul. Good vehicles, just racking up the milage. The Leo's need replacing. Plenty of Leo2A6's for sale cheap, as well as M-1's although it requires more log support than you normally have in place. You lack a lot of force multipliers and the CF-18's are getting old. Global Porjection capibility also needs improving, the C-17 line is still open, and some amphib ships should be sought.
Thats what I think. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 12:56:26 PM |
We followed the states into iraq to secure the oil.
We are not in Iraq... we are in Afghanistan! It is NOT about oil... it is about eliminating a dangerous regime that tortured and killed its people, while funding, harbouring and encouraging terrorists. We are trying to help them get on their feet and become a nation that can move forward instead of remain in the stone age of radical oppression.
Darfur is a whole other mess that will be cleaned up eventually. We just dont have the resources to go fighting multiple wars on multiple fronts.
As was already pointed out to you... one small batch of bad eggs should not have resulted in the disbanding of a regiment with a proud and successful heritage. That was simply a knee-jerk reaction to pacify the whiny, bleeding heart lefties bogging down our Country and to counter the media. Its all politics!
Try standing behind your troops intead of cowering behind them and emitting verbal feces in public you ignorant plick. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 1:24:11 PM | it's about oil..... and the pipeline that goes through afghanistan
"How to get the region's vast energy resources to the markets." The oil reserves are in areas north of Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Russia. Routes for a pipeline were proposed that would transport oil on a 42-inch pipe southward thru Afghanistan for 1040 miles to the Pakistan coast. Such a pipeline would cost about $2.5 billion and carry about 1 million barrels of oil per day."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/sardi7.html
war is never about freedom and democracy... it's about greed, power and control
fodder for the war profiteers - that's what militaries are for | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 5:12:09 PM |
so you want to close all the prisons and let all the prisoners out on the street.
No I would take away the cable television, computers, video games, and steak meals. Not let them out. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 5:30:26 PM | I hear ya Bison, lol. The bottom line is, even if it is about oil, we both need it, the US and Canada. The middle east has been a breeding ground for nut jobs for far too long. It's time to scatter bomb their ass. You peace sucking wankers still don't get it. Peace is WON thru victory, not appeasement. Any man on this green earth that doesn't see that is a sissy. What would you die for? Your gonna die right? Why not kill terrorists on their home turf? God bless the men in Canada who serve their country, and the US too.
Get a set of nuts people. See the BIG picture for once. Conflict doesn't stop on the food chain at humans. Evil people want to kill you and I, and I for one will fight, even if I save one of you tree hugging wankers. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 6:19:06 PM | I posted this in another thread but it will work here too. It's by Lorrie Goldstein of the Edmonton Sun.
If Canadians are going to be derailed from our mission in Afghanistan by the loss of 51 soldiers and one diplomat, we should never have sent them there in the first place.
Honouring the dead and respecting the grief of their families and comrades is one thing.
But using every death to argue the mission should be abandoned, as so many in Canada's chattering classes do, is obscene.
Yes, war is hell. Yes, talking is better than fighting. Yes, peacekeeping is honourable.
But sometimes talk fails. Sometimes, there's no peace to keep. Sometimes, a freedom-hating enemy must be defeated, if a freedom-loving nation like ours is to stand for anything meaningful in this world.
Nice talk won't stop the Taliban. Nice talk won't deter al-Qaida.
Nice talk won't prevent Afghanistan from falling back under the iron-fisted rule of dangerous religious fanatics who turned it into a training ground for terrorists, while forcing its civilian population to live under a reign of terror.
If opposing that, if trying to prevent that from happening again, isn't something Canada stands for, then we stand for nothing worthwhile.
And if we stand for nothing, if every soldier's death is enough to make us doubt why we fight, then let's bring our soldiers home from Kandahar, now.
Then we can become what too many Canadians want us to be -- an ineffective, self-righteous, boring scold, forever lecturing from the sidelines at enemies who will laugh at us and ignore us because, having taken our measure, they've found us wanting.
That wasn't the defeatist attitude of the Canadians who fought at Vimy Ridge, or the Somme, or Ypres, or Passchendaele, or Ortona, or Hill 70, or Juno Beach, or Dieppe, or Normandy, or in Hong Kong, or at the Battle of the Scheldt, the Battle of Britain, the Battle of the Atlantic, or in the Italian campaign and Korea.
It's not the attitude of the 2,500 Canadians who have volunteered to serve us in Afghanistan today.
Each day, they risk their lives for us, asking only that we remain certain of why we sent them there in the first place. Surely, we owe them that.
By Lorrie Goldstein | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 6:23:13 PM | balrog, you can call me a tree hugging wanker any time! And if thinking like you means you having nuts, then i'll gladly cut mine off and give then to you.
As you know carpet bombing is very infective at getting the target unless the target is to terrorize and kill innocent civilian people. Then it is a very affective weapon. And is used as such.
Perhaps it is you that needs to see the bigger picture? You have a very limited in their world view (Peace is WON thru victory, not appeasement). Attempting to kill all the terrorist will only create thousands more as we have witnessed since 9/11. Which has to have been the goal of the Filthy Rich, because this is not the path to peace.
Canada had a chance to be a new leader in the world to solve conflicts without violence. The whole world once looked up to us. Now we're seen as another mercenary army of big oil.
We've blown that all to hell. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 8:09:19 PM |
It is NOT about oil... it is about eliminating a dangerous regime that tortured and killed its people, while funding, harbouring and encouraging terrorists. We are trying to help them get on their feet and become a nation that can move forward instead of remain in the stone age of radical oppression.
Then it's really quite ironic that this all started in reaction to september 11. Remember that other september 11? No?
[hint] chile 1973 [/hint]
And if this is about eliminating a dangerous regime, wasn't that the same regime (both sadam and bin laden) that worked hand in hand with the states durring the 80's? I'm confused here - no, wait, you are... | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 8:20:08 PM | It is NOT about oil... it is about eliminating a dangerous regime that tortured and killed its people, while funding, harbouring and encouraging terrorists.
then how come no nation is sending troops to China to stop the crap happening to it's people? Oh right, they make cheap goods that we love to buy. What about Darfur? Where's the eagerness of countries to step in there? | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 9:08:32 PM | Smak....do your homework....the UN website may be of help to you. I thought you were a wee bit smarter but I guess I was wrong. In fact, I'll save you some time.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unmis/ | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 9:11:45 PM |
What does everyone think about our military?
Our Military is great. Altho as anyone knows...we are trained for Peace Keeping more than combat.
i think our military is really under funded
Yes, this is true...sad..but true.
I watched news today that 65% of Canadian don't know about Vimy....
OMG this is terrible.............
I agree, but I remember when I was in school the bulk of what we were taught was American History. Sad eh?
Canadian military maybe small and under funded, but I would put money on the level of training, professionalism, smarts and education.
I beleive it was the Canadian Intelligence that ended to ultimately find the bunch of American Soldiers that were held hostage (Ya know with Jessica Lynch) The Canadian Military are great...but again...were trained for Peace Keeping not combat.
You can't compare Canada's Military to the US's Military. By far the numbers are higher in the US, they spend a huge amount of time and effort in training their soldiers, the US ARMY is like one of Americas largest defense.
Ours is Tim Hortons. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 9:46:52 PM | | I truly appreciate what they do and hope they get more respect from the general public. I support our troops being in Afghanistan and feel the vast majority of those opposing the troops being deployed there do so because they have the war in Iraq and Afghanistan mixed up. Add to that most of those opposing the war in Iraq have convinced themselves terrorism does not exist and it is all a right wing conspiracy and you really can't explain facts to them at all. As a history/poli sci grad I hope I have been able to retain some sense of the grand reason why we have to be there. Perhaps it is not just about saving Afghanistan. I really think we are there to prevent Pakistan from falling into the hands of the various Islamic radicals who are fighting in Iraq, take their money from Iran and their training from Syria. Further, no one seems to notice that as Afghanistan is between Iraq and Pakistan that if we leave, it is very likely the country would return to a rule by some form of Taliban...the original group who allowed Al-Quada to start the mess in the Middle East and 9-11. So if our troops who are doing a marvelous job and this time doing real freaking peace keeping or should I say peace making not just damned Liberal photo-ops, if they were suddenly yanked out as the NDP and the so-called peacenik left would have, I would say it would be likely that Pakistan would fall under the control of the Islamic radicals and then they really would have nukes. I realize I had to make this short but if anyone understands real politik that is what is really going on so go Canada go because sadly the price of preventing a possible nuclear war might just have to be a 100's of dead Canadian soldiers and frankly I think our soldiers are willing to put up with that risk. And remember every one of our guys/gals is a volunteer not one was conscripted or drafted to go to Afghanistan. Their courage and honorable behavior will do more to bring peace and security for all Canadians than all the ribbon wearing, drum beating stoners who think activism is marching down Parliament Hill or starting flame wars on every web forum about our troops. Keep up the good work guys what you do really matters and keeps us safe every day. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 10:00:38 PM | | SweetTreat.........Hate to break it to you....but we are NOT trained peacekeepers. We train for combat/war. If a unit goes on a peacekeeping mission, they will adapt the training to suit that role. But when it's said and done, it's back to training for combat. I've been doing this for along time and trust me when I say we are NOT peacekeepers, we never were. We have done that role but I'll say it again...we train for combat. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 10:18:39 PM |
Smak....do your homework....the UN website may be of help to you. I thought you were a wee bit smarter but I guess I was wrong. In fact, I'll save you some time.
I guess you didn't realize i was talking about a force going in on combat missions, not to carry out peacekeeping and humanitarian aid. The fact that the Sudanese government helps the militia thats causing this crap doesn't warrant the same response as the situation in Afghanistan? | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/12/2007 10:53:13 PM | DJ......there is a difference in the big picture between the 2 countries and what the mandate is. And what both governments wanted in the way of help. Afghanistan asked for UN help, who in turn gave it to ISAF...Sudan didn't want any, but agreed eventually(http://www.unmis.org/english/sofa.htm) .
Read UN resolutioin 1590. Ch VII is in effect there.....meaning use of any force to protect civilans is authorized. They are there for that...not an offensive. Perhaps you can call Bush and ask why he didn't invade Sudan.
Saying that, The UN is more or less a spineless, political entity, IMO. I was embarrassed by what happened in '94 in Rwanda and Sudan. Politics is a sad game.
But don't misunderstand me.....Afghanistan and Sudan are 2 entirely different actions. The UN is in Sudan...ISAF(NATO) is in Afghanistan. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/13/2007 12:14:22 AM | Just wanted to clairify something:
I agree with romeo41's assessment of why we're in afghanistan.
I also agree wiht DJ - almost completely.
And bison: my thinking is bush isn't in sudan for a number of reasons
1) not as many natural resources
2) not as stategic (see romeo's post)
3) US military is stretched too thin
4) lack of a 'convincing' cover story (we've found conclusive proof of the existence of WMD in iraq, and they are planning to use them against the USA soon - yeah, right...)
5) they're, like, black. Bush simply doesn't give a damn about their lives.
So it looks like we're mostly on the same page. I simply don't think that the scandals can be forgiven, forgotten, or explained away.
Cheers. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/13/2007 2:10:12 AM | Hey People
Some great peace maker said violence begets violence (live by the sword...) I guess that sad affair was celebrated this past Easter. History has a tendency to repeat itself farther. We seem to be crusading still while Darfur and Somalia and is still occurring. Special interest is still concerned about the middle-east period. Canadians view as peacemakers is getting thrown out the door. Many battles in Stan have been offensive. The rest of the world more or less didn’t want to go to Afghanistan. So the liberals that initially caved to NATO pressure put good men and women in the field against world opinion. While people still die waiting for care in our under funded hospitals and there's our under funded post secondary etc. So many Canadians elected a war mongering servant (who won’t fight on the front lines farther) in a minority government to appease Bush et al. who blackmailed us with our lack of commitment in Iraq with a dictator gone rogue who they initially propped up to fight the Russians! Saddam, while I didn’t like the man, had fire crackers during desert storm and SFA in the second sortie, and with the twin-tower situation let's bully the weakest nation with a funny elected government (Bushes election and subsequent BS election) to get back at anyone situation. With plasma explosives and building seven which was iffy. The pentagon was quickly cleaned up too. No wingspan damage???
So now are military is scrambling to lease and borrow tanks from the Netherlands and Germany for $650 million. While the liberals lost a billion during the boondoggle or God knows what during the sponsorship scandal!
We lost eight good soldiers. One was from Sarnia here. R.I.P. Many knew from the get go with the cutbacks and the hardware left that it was an impossible battle. The Pakistan boarder is a problem. The Russians had a heck of a time there and they were at their pinnacle of weaponry… I think Romans and the like have always had problems there too.
IMHO I wished we had the leadership to tell the odd Yank that we and the rest of the world don’t agree and can’t afford the cost to good lives and the monetary cost to go to Afghanistan! The US is in trillions of dollars of debt with no health care. Never mind their own thousands killed and the lack of popularity that the Iraq war is at.
I think IMO that our men and women would do better at home being with their families. Selkirk Manitoba is a disaster that could use some military muscle.
Peace,
Dan | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/13/2007 2:37:51 AM | Someone said something about a freedom hating group. Yes there are extremists here and there. Last time I checked we don't really have full blown freedom of expression and we have enough problems here. The Arar case was interesting. We have the gall to export our bankrupt views on other nations?!? Who really are some of these terrorists? Mercenaries to keep the fight active. How would we like it if we were invaded again by another foreign government. Are we really going to re-build the schools and infrastructure that we destroyed? I think opium was Stan's biggest commodity. What will replace that?
Cheers,
Dan | |
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| Canadian Military???
Posted: 4/13/2007 5:28:46 AM | We are not in Sudan because we have already built the pipeline there. And yes we can thank Canada and Harpers oily friends for doing a good job. They did the right corporate thing and turned their backs while Russian bombers landed on Talisman Energy runways and refilled with Talisman Energy fuel on their way to bomb civilian populations. The only reason Talisman sold their interest in Sudan was because people like me told the teachers union and they sold their stocks. It was only because Talisman lost huge in the market that they sold their interest in Sudan, not because they displaced hundreds of thousands to get their oil.
We are in Afghanistan, not as peacekeepers, but because we have proven we can “get the oil out” regardless of the cost to a few locals.
As you may well know Ken Boessenkool ran Talisman at the time, one of the “men behind Harper” who ran his war room to get him elected. Shall we try the Alphabet Cereal?
“Ken Boessenkool former Senior Policy Advisor to the Leader, Conservative Party of Canada Currently as Vice President Business Development for Hill & Knowlton Canada, Ken Boessenkool draws on his extensive public and private sector experience to provide strategic counsel and analysis regarding reputation and issues management, communications, regulatory advice, government relations and corporate positioning. With a firm grasp of the public policy process and the issues that face the private sector in dealing with federal and provincial governments, he is able to provide clients strong representation that generates desired results.” (http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/author.asp?id=574) (me using the Frazer Institute as a reliable source! So funny, but who would know better about them then themselves?)
Yes, he can generate results regardless of the cost of human lives.And he has good government relations!
Shall we make a list of Harpers H&K friends?
wage peace! | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/13/2007 6:09:32 AM | Hate to break it to you....but we are NOT trained peacekeepers. We train for combat/war. If a unit goes on a peacekeeping mission, they will adapt the training to suit that role. But when it's said and done, it's back to training for combat. I've been doing this for along time and trust me when I say we are NOT peacekeepers, we never were. We have done that role but I'll say it again...we train for combat.
I don't want to derail a discussion of the Canadian military but I couldn't resist that comment since it is so accurate. It is such an important element of the problem in Iraq - the American military, like any military, is trained for combat - full, all out, call it what you will, these young men and women arent trained ( and Im not sure how you could train!) for what they face....drive down city street in armoured vehicle with half dozen soldiers looking around at the alert..suddenly shots ring out and one dies..and what do they do? what they are trained for and what is the normal human response - they are under attack and they start shooting! minutes later, there are dead civilians in the street. Were these soldiers inhuman killers? nope The situation was perfect to 'set them up' - it is precisely why Bush I knew that going to Baghdad during the Gulf War was a losing proposition. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/13/2007 11:06:55 AM | backwards duck... are you sure your name isn't Jack Layton? You sure as hell sound like that rambling moron to me.
Afghanistan and Iraq are 2 different engagements... quit mixing them up. Bison is laying it all out for you guys to plainly read. It is very easy for the neo-hippies to preach peace and love... but you must remember that diplomacy only ever works when BOTH SIDES ARE WILLING TO LISTEN.
I have an idea... go over to Afghanistan and ask if the Taliban want to negotiate with you. Then we can read the news about the next hostage they are threatening to behead. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/13/2007 11:20:55 AM | Thank you , aligirl!!!!
For all the people that want to heap shame on our soldiers.........did you vote? Do you REALLY care.......high entertainment and a place to air your views....is more like it.......it is the loss and suffering of all the soldiers that have given up peace, tranquility and life....to defend your rights to your opinion......all the Canadian soldiers that have died to date.....they are why you are able to HAVE this opinion right now!!! | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/13/2007 11:52:52 AM | I respect those who go into the forces with a good head on their shoulders and empathy in there hearts. Like everything there are good and bad but we can't stereotype. What is really sad that no one has mentioned is that we are over there fighting for a corrupt cause. If it wasn't for Bush and his ****ed up politics this wouldn't be happening. We should be weary and casting stones at him. HE and his cronies are the cause of this... Oil and money is what this is all about........ Not terrorism, or WMD.. here are some vid's just to bring about another perspective..
http://stage6.divx.com/user/phorty40/video/1169160/Illuminati---Brotherhood-of-Death
http://stage6.divx.com/DodgyGeezer911
http://stage6.divx.com/videos/search:alex%20jones
Keep an open mind..... Im not an extremist or anything but one should always strive to see all angles and views to truly have an educated, logical opinion.. | |
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| Canadian Military
Posted: 4/13/2007 12:36:13 PM | "You sure as hell sound like that rambling moron to me."
Thanks for the compliment! For compared to you I am. A moron with no nuts that only reads Alphabet cereal.
I know I confuse your world view. To hard to admit the truth so you have turn to name calling.
As you know, the Taliban were created and funded by the Americans who gladly supported them. It all went sour when they refused to sign the pipeline deal with UNICOL.
“With the anarchy prevailing in post "communist" Afghanistan and spilling into Pakistan, the CIA along with ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) started propping up the Taliban in 1994. Ironically this was taking place under Benazir Bhutto's so-called progressive regime in Pakistan The financial backing of this operation - apart from Saudi Arabia and
the CIA - mainly came from UNOCAL and the big US oil conglomerates. They had their own vested interests in getting oil and gas pipelines from Central Asian republics - mainly Turkmenistan - through Afghanistan down to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea. The deal was struck under the auspices of the then US under -secretary of state Ms. Robyn Raphael. Another US foreign office senior bureaucrat, Robert Oakley had become one of the directors of the UNICOL, as a result of his experience in the region. The ISI also persuaded the PDPA (People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan) military faction led by Shahnawaz Tanai to join the Taliban forces and used his pilots to fly MIG 23 and Sakoi fighters of what was left of the Afghan air force and drive sophisticated Russian Tanks.
The Taliban captured Kabul in 1996. US $30 million was paid by UNICOL alone for the completion of this operation. The Americans were not at all disturbed by the ruthless and barbaric acts perpetrated by the Taliban upon the poor Afghan populace. They had no complaints about the repression of women by these monsters. In fact, after coming to power the Taliban started playing with various oil multinationals who were trying to strike deals on oil and gas pipe lines with them. In 1997 the Taliban sent two delegations to the two competing bidders, UNICOL and Bridas (an Argentinian oil giant) to Texas and Buenos Aires. At the headquarters of Bridas in Buenos Aires, all the female staff were asked not to wear skirts, but to put on long trousers and cover their heads with scarves. Similar instructions were issued in Texas, USA. The Taliban, however, deceived both: they took the advantages and then ditched the deals.” (http://www.ptudc.org/content/view/33/34/)
Now who’s deceiving who? | |
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