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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/12/2007 2:51:04 PM | OP, i think everyone is right who has said dump the guy and don't look back.
i have met a few compulsive liars through online personals, and a few guys i thought might be socio- or psychopaths.
but it doesn't really matter what they are or if i was right or you are right -- if you are uncomfortable with him for any reason, there is a reason for that and it means you shouldn't be with him -- or, if your intuition is telling you there's something not right about him? trust your instincts. stop having contact with him and find a good guy.
and i do believe, in spite of the post which precedes mine, that there are actually quite a lot of good men.
best of luck!  | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/12/2007 2:55:58 PM | Just so you know, sociopath is not really a clinical diagnosis. It's anti-social personality disorder. Sociopath is a coined expression from the older DSM edition.
I keep thinking... how did things get to this point for me? Am I this pitiful & lonely that I've become the target for a sociopath? How could I have not recognized this? Don't feel bad if it took you a while to recognize the traits. The hallmark of anti social personality disorder is wit and charm. They are often intelligent and fascinating. If they were not, they could not get what they want.
Of course you cannot diagnose it for sure, and reading some crapola on the net is not really informative and you can project what you read onto them rather simply, unintentionally. From what you described, I would not rush to anti-social as a diagnosis. I would lean more towards borderline personality disorder, with dependent and anti-social traits. An anti social person would very likely never to beg you to come back to them. They just would not care.
If he does have a personality disorder, you can rest assure he won't bother to look into it. People with personality disorders do not suffer with them, it's everyone around them that suffers. They are pervasive and enduring. They are untreatable by any means.
We all have traits of certain personality disorders, but not the disorder.
Essentially, it's not his fault that he's this way. This is how he was born. That has not been determined specifically. There is a slight causative link to fetal alcohol syndrome for anti-social disorder and it has also been genetically linked and connected to maternal deprivation. That is neither here not there as it relates to you.
Here is the point. His behavior is bad. It is like walking on eggshells all the time. It's not improving, nor will it, more than likely. You should never have a child with this man, that is for sure. You will always be enabling him to continue in bad behavior, or he will not stick around. You are not God, you cannot make him or anyone change. So, all that remains is you need to ask yourself one single question... "Am I willing to live with this?" Then you need to act decisively when you know the answer.
A Sociopath, or just a typical male, They are one of the same aren't they?..... Not all men are lying, cheating creatures. There is a big difference between someone who has a personality disorder and someone who is just an a-hole. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/12/2007 3:00:50 PM | | Be grateful that you figured this guy out and don't beat yourself up. Manipulative people can be very clever. Remind yourself that you were able to recognize that something was odd about this guy from the very beginning. Trust your intuition. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/12/2007 3:12:27 PM | That was great! Just got out of one of those with a younger woman. Could not tell the truth! Got off the hook when u didn't believe. Walking on eggshells see BPD. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/12/2007 3:40:12 PM | I have to agree with everyone get away my father is a genuine sociopath with papers and everything...
They do not get better he even thought he was God at one time and I was satan and he had to kill me... You know what break the ties unless you like the drama he causes.... It took me a long time to work through the issues I grew up with. I am telling you dont go there!!!!! | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/12/2007 6:10:54 PM | | Just for the record psychologists actually know very little about personality disorders because the people who have them don't think there is anything wrong with themselves, and thus refuse any kind of therapy. Psychologists and other mental health professionals treat the "victims" of the personality disordered who usually show up for appointments with depression, anxiety and post traumatic stress. A better place to learn about sociopaths (if that is in fact is what your friend is) is from the court system. The police and judges are very familiar with this type of individual. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/25/2007 3:08:56 AM | Good grief! 
Some of you really need to read books and research the "science" of relationships. YES it is a bit of a science for the majority. We were cavemen/women for thousands and thousands of years and have a lot of inhereted behaviors when it comes to the "relationship dept." It's not something you can just change in 200 or even 500 years. There are certain things wired into us that have been there since the beginning of time. I can read most women like a book when I meet them.. not bragging.. just did the research/reading and was surrounded by mostly women the 6+ yrs I went to college because my field was 99% women at the time.
And yes... I see quite a few "sociopaths" in my current feild. Some of the worst in the United States as a matter of fact.
And most personality disorders are due to a chemcial imbalance.. and seeing a psychologist is a complete waste of time. They can't even prescribe medication for pete's sake. All they do is talk a person up and make them feel good about themselves.. for about two days, then they feel the exact same way again. Sure they can help some.. But in my expereince, medication is FAR more effective than "therapy session." It treats the root of the problem. (chemical imbalance)
Your boyfriend just sounds young and confused. He is still young and has a lot to learn in life. Date someone your own age, or on "your level."
Thanks my humble advice. Just my opinon mind you. 
Seeya | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/25/2007 7:37:57 AM | Well, thanks to your post I read it all the way through and my ex matches all of those things. Just break it off with him, he is not worth the bother. He will only bring you down, do you want that to happen? No, I didn't think so, you know what to do, break up with him, change your number and never let him back in your life again. That is what worked for me and I am a much better and happier person now, I promise you will be too. Good lucki.   | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/25/2007 10:28:17 PM | Whoa...! My advice? FLUSH HIM!!!! Run in the opposite direction, block him from your life ASAP!!!! This can only lead to pain for you. He doesn't and won't care. He sounds like a user and a loser and I'm sure you can do much better than him.
Best of luck and take care. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/25/2007 10:43:40 PM |
This is America, OPie. Sociopathic behavior is rewarded here. We admire and reward charm, intimidation and manipulation, so long as they're practiced on other people. We call it all sorts of nice names, like charisma, dynamism, and leadership - even true love! - until the underlying self-centering reveals itself for what it is.
So true. I would take it even one step further. I think the american culture actually cultivates sociopaths. It creates them. Dr phil said the latest numbers are around six percent of the population.
That astounded me as we all usually think of murders when we think of sociopaths but apparently a large number of them never get into any serious trouble with the law and are never found out. Six percent means that nineteen people you contact with wont have it but that twentieth one does.
That is really mindblowing that the number is that high. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/25/2007 11:02:47 PM | someone that you have sex with asks you for money:
a.) they are a sex trade worker
b.) they are a wanna be sex trade worker
c.) they are playing you [and not very well]
d.) um allowance please [don't be in the sugar family]
can't believe all the women that get conned including some good friends. first time he asks for busfare. ditch his ass. lol.
then
ask your /my self
what the hell we are doing going out with someone who doesn't have metaphoric
'busfare'
don't believe in sociopaths just screwed up people in a screwed up world and we are all merely trying to figure out how to get by... so when i get screwed in ways that i don't wanna be i need to look at me. how profound. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/26/2007 12:07:36 AM |
Anyway, I've been enjoying the company of a friend for the past ten months who's
a bit younger. this was really enjoyable, for you? doesn't sound enjoyable in the least, to me...
I've always noticed something a bit odd about him. Something I could never put my finger on. ahh, *lightbulb* he was a challenge perhaps?
In person He would rarely smile. Often had a cranky expression on his face. Didn't
seem to understand me very well, my emotions or where I was coming from a lot. Sometimes he would have angry outbursts and storm off, be anti social, yell at people at the drive through, or throw things. and, and, and yet~this is the same gentleman whose company you say you enjoyed?
I'd end things with him, but he always would beg me to come back. I kind of felt
sorry for him and I have to admit, I welcomed the attention. so, all he had to do was beg? and, you "kind of felt sorry for him"?!?
We got to be pretty close friends, although, there was never any commitment and
I was aware he saw other girls, but he always made me feel like I was the only person
in his life. isn't this a contradiction, on your part?
Things were far from perfect. He'd come to me for money a lot,and he'd lie all the time, I could never fully trust him but he never really did anything outright cruel or malicious, he didn't drink excessively and he didn't do drugs or do anything criminal... yet, you continued to choose to see and "enjoy" him?
One thing that would upset me the most was his MS account. Visiting his page was
like visiting the playboy mansion, he had girls, girls, girls and seeming to be in love with
him or in lust with him. Big girls, skinny girls, it didn't matter... This would cause me a lot
of distress and we'd have a lot of drama over it, so I told him to just block me b/c I didn't
want to look at it anymore. yep, a very good idea, methinks. good for you!
It was always in the back of my mind that he might have some kind of disorder, but I was hoping it wasn't something like this... again, proof that you knew and felt different but still continue to focus on him, his behavior and the varying degrees and ways he "made" you feel, rather than trust your own instinct. red flags unheeded and ignored, i'd say is almost inviting hurt. once we become adults, making our own choices i believe no one is more responsible for how others treat us than our own selves. if we allow others to mistreat us, this does not make them monsters any more than it makes us qualified to label them; especially if our focus is more on them rather than our own responsibility to ourselves.
...Manipulative and Conning...They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims. who is humiliated, you or he?
...Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature...Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. does this indicate an addiction of the two of you for each other, or do you simply just see him as solely responsible for the impulsive and hopelessness?
...Irresponsibility/Unreliability...Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed. does the indifference and oblivion of your own self and feelings mean you are or might be sociopathic because you ignored your own gut, any more than you see his behavior of indifference toward you?
...Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle...Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively. are you more worried about his lack of realistic life plan, or your role as victimizing yourself to someone else's whims? does doing so absolve yourself of responsibility in this so you can focus on him, still? that can't be working very well for you, can it?!
So... right now I feel pretty awful & stupid. so... right NOW, stop it.
I don't know what to do or where to go from here. i'd suggest not going back there, staying away, and focusing on your own contributions in this intricate web. YOU are the only one you have any control over, anyway, yes?
I keep thinking... how did things get to this point for me? perhaps because
you chose to ignore your own gut feelings about this situation being wrong for you?
Am I this pitiful & lonely that I've become the target for a sociopath?
apparently you did choose to allow yourself to become involved with someone you claim you could not even trust. i'd suggest you might ask more questions about yourself in this, rather than label others. move past seeing yourself as a victim. seek professional help if you are truly willing to undertake the work necessary to ensure this doesn't happen again.
How could I have not recognized this? there are more answers to this query than there are people. and the "how" is NOT the important question, nor is the "why?" methinks a better question is: how can i actively and cognitively make better choices for future relationships?
How can people like this really exist in the world? huh? trust me when i tell you there are far far FAR worse predators in the world. you are alive, you have your faculties, and the ability to express yourself, feel, learn, learn and grow from this experience, IF you CHOOSE to do so. i truly hope you take that chance for yourself.
I can't believe I've been seeing someone who by clinical definitions is not emotionally human. i am having difficulty believing you have made this determination simply by googling "sociopath". i know i'll garner a truckload of crap for seeming callus and cold, while i actually am trying to show what an unbiased outsider might see and feel, reading your post.
What would you guys do? that isn't really important; what YOU CHOOSE to do IS.
Has this ever happened to someone else? yes, undoubtedly, be assured of that, believe it, accept it, learn and grow from the knowledge of knowing it to be true.
I still care about him. please get professional help for yourself. since you
began with "I'm turning to the boards for a little support because this is a little too big to go to my friends and family with..." i implore you to seek help for your own sake, if not with friends or family, with a TRAINED PROFESSIONAL.
Essentially, it's not his fault that he's this way. This is how he was born. wow, that's a rather omnipotent, and quite possibly dangerous view. if you do not learn healthy ways to validate yourself, you likely won't recognize or appreciate it when a healthy individual comes into your life, and you DO deserve more and better than the likes of what this type of unhealthy relationship typically provides, do you not?
good luck to you muppetkiss, in your journey to self evolution and much healthier and happier relationships. and thank you for daring to ask these many questions of the public and honestly process for yourself the answers herein of many caring people. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/26/2007 6:14:37 PM | Hi this is Rae.
I doesn't really matter what label you apply to him. His behavior is just plain bad, and will probably escalate.He's dangerous: dump him ASAP !! But in answer to your question, yes, there are many out there. One was my boyfriend for six years.. fits what you describe exactly. Very bad news.. lucky to escape with my life. There will never be any peace or security with him, I guarantee a crisis around every corner if you stay with him. DUMP HIM ! | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/26/2007 6:22:46 PM | Softedge, You don't have a soft edge.
If you knew the nature of a sociopath you'd know they are easy to fall in love with..they are highly charasmatic, charming, and sometimes downright irrestible. I can easily understand this woman,and have much empathy for her. .. its like a obsession, a sick and dangerous one, but an obsession nontheless. Do you find this so hard to believe.. Maybe you've never been involved with such a man.
Give the lady a break !! Gees !!
Rae | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/26/2007 6:55:48 PM | OP, I don't usually post on the forums, but I just had to make a comment about your situation.
First, I agree with everyone who says, whatever this guy "is", you should get him out of your life and keep him out. Even if he tries to get back in with you, protect yourself, honour yourself, and respect yourself, and keep him the h*ll away from you.
Second, I don't know what this guy's clinical diagnosis would be... I'm not a professional, and I'm just reading stuff on the net. But it doesn't matter if he fits the label of "sociopath", "bpd", "user", or whatever. It is not healthy for you to be with him in any way, whether in person or through the ether of the net/IM. I don't think that it is as important to put the "correct" label on him, as it is for you to get away from him.
And finally...
[Am I this pitiful & lonely that I've become the target for a sociopath? How could I have not recognized this? How can people like this really exist in the world?]
As I wrote above, I'm not a professional. I've done some reading on sociopaths, and I know someone with a clinical diagnosis of bpd. And I've known many general "users" in my life, as I think most of us have!
The literature on sociopathy is clear: these people are successful because they are good at being whatever they need to be to get what they want. Few people recognize them. Don't beat yourself up for not recognizing it. That's the beautiful secret, so to speak, about sociopathy: they are so good at it, that people (including doctors, CEOs, and even "experts") are fooled. Please don't put that on yourself.
That goes for whatever his actual diagnosis is. The person I know with bpd is an expert manipulator and knows exactly how to behave to make you fall in line with what he wants.
Upshot is this: don't put this all on yourself. Don't beat yourself up for not recognizing that he has a problem, just be proud of yourself for realizing it and for getting away from him once you knew. Don't make his problems yours by thinking yourself "pitiful and lonely" - that is to still allow him to have power over you and manipulate you. You may need help with self esteem issues (I don't know, after all I don't know you), but please stop labelling *yourself* that way. If you feel that way, then give yourself the honour and respect you deserve and work on yourself so you don't feel that way. Try not to think of it as doing it because of him or anything he did; instead look at it as learning something about yourself that you want to change, and then changing it.
Good luck, OP. I hope you get this guy out of his life, and that you do some good self-care for you, because you deserve it! | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/26/2007 7:02:00 PM | I am sorry you had to experience this. Just be thankful you found out now... that you followed your instincts and are now stepping out of the picture.
I gave more time than I care to admit to someone who could be diagnosed as anti-social sociopathic. Just walk away now - and remember the signs. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/26/2007 7:50:27 PM | Hi Muppett, I guess you're the "OP"....operator of the thread I guess??? Maybe someone can confirm that.
Anyway, I'm really impressed wth many of the posts and i'm sure you are grateful for even knowing what a sociopath is.....many people don't. I'm no mental health professional, but have had experience...work/relationships/education etc...
He probably has some form of a personality disorder....I had a similar experience to yours...so I understand much of what you have gone through.
Obviously you need to say goodbye to him....and please make it clear, be scary if you have to be. With all due respect.....in your last post you mention this situation being about manipulation.
My heart sinks when a woman my age can be manipulated by a 24 yr old. This, in and of itself is somewhat disturbing. You did have choices right from the beginning as well to not enter into a deeper situation with this person. 24 yrs old, red flags from the beginning....sounds like you wanted a learning experience.
I'm not dissing you, like I said something similar happened to me.....the only difference is...my sociopath was more mature.
I hope you meet someone who treats you with the respect you must now believe you deserve. | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/27/2007 12:13:38 AM | | I wouldn't go as far to say he was a sociopath, it sounds like basically he was just using you, along with others probley .....as hard as it may be, you need to just move on and have no more contact with him. | |
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Jordaw
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Joined: 10/15/2006
Msg: 49 | |
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| Just learned he's probably a sociopath...
Posted: 4/27/2007 1:31:35 AM | One thing women these days have to cultivate (and men need to appreciate) is the instinct to just run if something feels wrong. Dont worry about offending the man. If he is even-minded and level headed then he wont take it as an insult. We men understand male head cases more then most women do. Thats why when your male friends start raising red flags about a guy you are seeing - you should probably start paying attention more.
I agree with the other poster who sounds like she also has a strong background in psychology. Namely that he sounds like he may have a personality disorder (still potentially disasterous if not managed) and that you should see some educated advice from a therapist or psychologist.
I have spend a lot of time in dealing with Internet predators - and I can tell you they come in male and female form. It sucks that you have to look over your shoulder every now and again but dont let it ruin your life. Change your locks. Change your passwords. Warn your friends to keep an eye out for you. Thats what friends do.
The problem for you is you have sympathy for him. Use rational clear logic, not emotion. Thats what real sociopaths and serial rapist on the internet look for and know how to use. And most of them with a long track record are dam good at it. Sadly most of these people are not curable as they are devoid of conscience, and their behavior always escalates to something worse..Dont feel ashamed either. Most of these guys/gals can even fool the most experienced of mental health professionals. I know - have been there - got the t-shirt - ruined my life.
Take it as a hard life lesson and cut ties with this guy. If he cant accept that or if his behavior starts to border on obsessive harrasment for more then a week or two then go talk to the cops or a lawyer. Protect yourself. Its not being mean - its just necessary sometimes.
Forgive yourself for the mistake. Life will get better if you are patient with it.
Most of all - learn to follow your instincts. You have them for a reason. | |
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And please tell her to grow up !!!!!!!
