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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 11:42:17 AM | The only insight that I can offer is that women are constantly being told by their families and friends that they must learn to play their cards right.
What they mean is to bluff like in poker. Therefore if they really, really like a guy they must tell him they don't. In fact, the must say that they'd much rather be friends, play pirates, or just about anything else so that your real mission will go undetected.
This applies to marriage as much as is does to dating. I've tried and I suck at it. And personally I found the whole concept rather acquisitive to begin with. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 11:48:00 AM | The problem, OPie, is this. There is just ONE RULE. And it's hard as hell. And most people (men AND women) don't want to do it because it's *too hard*. . . .
The Rule? PAY ATTENTION -- This always always works because everyone anyone we are with is different. He's afraid of spiders, she doesn't give a rat's ass if the seat's up or down. He never balances his checkbook, she likes to vacuum under the couch twice a week. And endlessly etcetera!
Wanting that list: Roses on Monday, Dinner out on Tuesday, backrubs on Wednesday, just does not work.
Pay Attention means: studying the person you are with, getting to know what they like, what matters to them. An ex of mine was very frustrated when he gave me a bottle of Tigress perfume for my birthday, and I broke into tears. We'd been together for 10 years, and during that time I'd worn ONE perfume. And it *wasn't* Tigress. He claimed only women knew things like that; I claimed that only people who cared knew. If he'd paid that little attention to the stockmarket he wouldn't be a millionaire now. Being a millionaire was important to him; I wasn't.
Imagine the woman is the thing you most want and most love. Pay THAT kind of attention to her, and you'll do fine.
Good luck!
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 11:51:33 AM | well I am going to try to post again! It just let me post another one somewhere else so maybe this is my lucky day.
Thanks OP for posting my email to you. hmmm must have been too long and got cut off.
So if you want to hear the WARNING about leg pulling anyone, let me know!!!
OP I think that you are getting some people to actually sit down and think about things that they know instinctively but have never verbalized. I think this is an excellent exercise for BOTH GENDERS, I'm certainly learning mostly that we take too much for granted in this fast paced life we live today. Anyone who can make someone think and think simply and straightforwardly is an ARTIST! Good on you. You also know how to encourage people on as well. The big trick is to learn what peoples needs, their wants and their deal breakers. To do this for an individual then you gotta stop, look and listen AND HEAR!!!!! Be observant, lots of signals given as everyone is saying.
******If you or anyone ever gets tired of using the word whine, whining, whiney, try WHINGEING, its a British and colonial word and I use it now in place of whine. I suspect the original was WHINGE but it got shortened to whine. BUT I think WHINGEING is a superlative word.*******
I think all male input is welcome on this thread, I know that I as a female who is putting out would welcome it. Ask what you need to know, say what you mean to say, jump in BUT I got ta warn you the OP will not tolerate WHINGEING and he doesn't want to hear philosophical thingies. He wants the simple little things that we all take for granted or we over look. This is a neutral gender thread, its just about women, thats all.
I so hope this can be posted. WOW it let me post. 10 posts must be in a 24 hr period and not a calendar day!!!!! If you don't hear from the OP it will not be I'm sure of it, that he has given up, it will be that he has had his limit. HEY GALS & GUYS he's got us thinking and defining!!!! Irritating a wee bit but successful none the less!
Perhaps we should start another 'sister' thread if you will about "Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?" or simply ad it into here as then we all (well at least both genders) will learn, learn, learn, by sharing and listening. Yes I'd like to hear ditto from the guys for the gals!!!!!
I sure could do with hearing from the fellas the little things that the gals need to know. Just like the OP's request, not the philosophical stuff, the real day to day, nitty gritty that women need to know. Everyone gets to pick and chose what works for them that way. PLEASE I'd like to learn more about little things important to males.
Oh right guys, learn to cook, do dishes, wipe the counter, set a nice looking table, sweep the floor, do dishes. AND for heavens sake if you are going to buy perfume for a gal, make sure it is the one she likes or would like, not what you like, ESPECIALLY if she only ever wears one!!!! In MY personal case POLEASE don't buy me perfume, allergic to it and aftershave but then you'd learn that from me PLUS if you get a 5 o'clock shadow (which I love the look of some of the time) shave before you come to see me because with all that kissing, I'll get a skin burn if you don't!!!! but then you'd learn that from me. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 12:49:38 PM | I agree with the thought that the #1 rule for both men and women is to "pay attention"... most of us, if we didn't grow up in a cave, have instincts and can guess when we're getting it right or when we're way off the mark.
I guess in the beginning of a relationship is the best time to simply ask questions and lay all your needs/wants out there for the other person so they don't have to guess. Simply stating that you are looking for someone who opens doors/buys flowers/respects your space, etc. is easier than trying to read someone. And that way, if the other person responds with "Well, don't expect flowers every week/we'll see each other once or twice a week/I don't do doors" then the person can decide if that's something that can be compromised.
But for the sake of specificity, my deal breakers would be:
- drugs (been there, done that, no thanx)
- excessive drinking (socially, once in a while, beer for the game or whatever okay)
- sports-obsessed (at least be willing to compromise and make time for us)
- poor hygiene (shower daily hopefully unless you're blessed with low sweat output (?) and can still smell fresh after a day or so)
- disinterested in my thoughts/opinions/intellect (again, been there... need someone who respects me)
- unwilling to do the little things--dishes, take out garbage...
- close mindedness/inflexible-- just shoot every idea/suggestion down 
- lying, secretive: I'm an open book and don't hide things, and would expect the same
- overly critical (of me, of other people), negative, racist, etc.
- selfish in the bedroom (1 2 3 it's over... no freaking way!)
This thread has been an interesting read btw... thanks! | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 7:21:07 PM | ...spelling out what exactly ARE the things that any idiot man would know instinctively if he was a woman?
What any idiot man should know if he were this woman: (1) Don't ask me for a list that defines you as a man. (2) He should ask me (not other/all women) questions appropriate to the situation if he wants to know what I think/want/like/dislike. (3) Make eye contact and smile.
Let me guess, the only one you just might possibly accept is #3. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 7:45:19 PM | What are the things that you expect a man to do automatically?
1) If you say your going to phone then PHONE.
2) When you communicate with us be very direct, blunt and to the point so we're not reading things that are not there. If you only want sex then say so. If we're never going to be in that "girlfriend category" then tell us. And if you LOVE us....TELL US!!!
3) Make time for us between the male bondin' activities, hockey watching and all your other male actvities.
4) Hang out?? I still don't get that one!! Guys hang out with guys. Women hang out with guys to date.
5) If you're going to hide out in your cave for a week tell us..."Look Hun I like you alot but Im need some down time and I'll phone you next week"...Don't just disappear.
6) We do have a "relationship timelines" in our heads...Around that 3 month mark we're thinking we are a exclusive couple, boyfriend/girlfriend or a committed relationship. Please talk to us and let us know.
7) Communication, Communication, Communication!!!! It's import....Talk to us...Listen to us | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 8:21:00 PM | This is why women will always complain about men and their so-called lack of communication.
What the woman says: Blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah.
This is what the man wants to hear: Blahblahblah.
The problem is not that men don't communicate its that women overcommunicate. Look at the length of the average female post here. Men don't want to hear what your girlfriends think of anything. We don't care if you get your hair/nails/toes done. It doesn't matter if the furniture doesn't match...its COMFORTABLE. The toilet seat is on a hinge....it can go up AND down.
Op I think you should reword the post to ask about a protocol moreso than a list. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 8:42:19 PM | KBOT7.....you are so funny... I adored this whole thread
you want a list eh... okay here it goes...
Grand gestures.. out! LOL! little unexpexted IN! (enless you totally ****ed up then well Do WHAT EVER it takes!)
Sex... ALL ABOUT ME! LOL! But that goes both WAYS!
If we ask you once not to do something .. PLEASE dont DO IT!
Make time to have REAL communication!
Tell us What you are REALLY thinking! and if its nothing.. Thats OK! LOL!
Cuddling after sex... If I WANT it Give it to ME! If I don't ROLL Over! LOL!
IF you get the LOOK! Realize that its FOR REAL! and its for YOU! Back away and Start apologizing! LOL!
If you dont' want to talk... TELL US! But don't avoid US! LOL!
FIND A NEED! FILL A NEED! And this applies to EVERYTHING! (EX..SEX... Honey I would like you to touch here... no not there.. here... see here....find a need .. fill a need!) LOL!
Be nice to her friends.. but dont pump them for information! if you want to know ask ME!
HER shows are JUST as Important AS HOCKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!
Try and look like you are paying attention while shes talking and if you aren't listen for KEY words! and learn to ask very good QUESTIONS! LOL!
I am not your maid...Okay Bedroom issues aside.... PICK UP YOUR OWN DAMN UNDERWEAR!!!! LOL!
DO NOT I REPEAT... DO NOT... SPIT OR HORK in MY PRESENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DONT be disrepectful PERIOD!
COMMON SENSE!
LOVE ME! RESPECT ME! BE TRUTHFUL!
CHEAT ON ME AND I'll "L. Bobbit" you! LOL!
I dont expect doors to opened for me... BUT YOU BETTER DO IT! LOL!
I want an EQUAL not a PUPPY!
When we fight... Let me WIN ! If i'm Wrong.. you'll be REWARDED! LOL!
When I NEED You.. BE THERE!
....... | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 8:55:05 PM | kbot, I dated a woman who I asked to marry me after so many months ...and despite what I figured would work better in the b/r if we were. After so many months, she'd let me know over the phone that she had "issues" w/me, but she never brought these to light when I made the drive to be w/ her.
Turns out that her "issues" were my not being there enough ...and married. Sex out of marriage set the wrong example to her children so she married the first guy who 'hit on her' after I took issue during a roadtrip to MO w/ her ...and little Miss Law-Abider-in-Texas couldn't be likewise a few states away. Ironically, I was more considerate and understanding of her children than she proved to be.
Anyway, there's a list, but not, when a woman truly cares for you and not just for herself. She'll ignore that you left the seat up on those occasions that you forget to be proactively considerate for her ...and even forgive you if you forget to be so after she may say something about it, but don't expect her to put up w/ your cr*p after you've chosen to ignore her subtle requests. The 'nags' follow.
I believe someone else put it right for paying attention as key to making the relationship that you want to work ...to do so smoothly. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 9:05:53 PM | I will probably be stoned to death for saying this, but here it is.
Pay close attention. The rules of engagment with regards to relationships with women will never be the same. NEVER. There I said it. Girls/Women learn the rules of engagement from an older sister, cousin or friend. The rules vary from person to person, thus the rules will never be the same from woman to woman.
All I can suggest is that you pay close attention to the woman you are with. Save yourself the frustration of trying to define the rules based on other relationships as most will not apply to your current situation.
This message was approved by CuddlesNK. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 9:30:21 PM |
What are the things that you expect a man to do automatically?
kbot7,
open doors, be on time, offer to pay, don't bring up the topic of sex, don't say that your ex-girlfriend is crazy (all women know that the minute a guy talks about his supposed crazy ex, he is a loser) or how bad you lost in court, don't call me darlin' or honey or sweetie, be clean shaven, smell good, get your own transportation, and no matter what, don't stare at the waitress and do not burp or fart........there....that should get you started. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 10:19:13 PM | i read the first coupla pages, am tired and will give two cents even if someone already said any of these things.
be gentle.
be honest.
feel your feelings or trust some woman to show them to her alone as a start. um but except the anger, don't take it out on her directly of course, don't hurt her.
learn how to find the g-spot and use your knowledge.
put the toilet seat down.
help out around the place, do not only be served but also serve.
tell your woman things you don't feel good about about yourself.
feel your inadequacy in a way that doesn't blame the woman or some how toss it to her like she originated it.
stroke her and say uplifting things to her on a regular basis.
if she cries don't tell her to stop. let her cry until she is finished and preferably in your arms.
be able to admit to your own fear.
say you are sorry when you been an a-hole.
surprise her with surprises like crocheting a sweater while reciting shakspeare, or arranging some fabulous adventure down to the last detail, like calling her work saying she can't come and packing her bikini and heading to the beach or airport kinda thing.
buy her presents often.
let her hug you a lot.
look in her eyes.
be funny and sweet. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 11:06:03 PM | i guess at the end of the day i can give u a list a mile long but .. its going to vary from woman to woman.. but i guess one main common one would be..
remember my bday, remember to buy me a xmas pressie, remember an aniversary, get romantic, if u were romantic enough to get my attention and get me in the relationship u should be that way to keep me in it.
another perhaps would be.. dont always assume that there is nothing better than to watch the footy or go to the footy, that sometimes is fine sure, but there are other things in life to do.
ur with us girls coz u think we are cute and sexy... SAY IT.. we girls tend to think we are pretty darn average otherwise.
and blah blah blah blah blah blah.. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/14/2007 11:21:34 PM | LOL I communicate very well with women and they still throw me curves at times.
Much of it is that you cant expect someone who thinks differently than you to know exactly what to say or react in each situation.
Everyone has different expectations. In fact my problem is that I tend to communicate too much to the point that women tell me to shut up LOL
I have to admit one of the most frustating things that some women have done is the "silent" treatment as punishment. I mean if you cut off communication how can you complain that Im not communicating ? LOL
I think the best advice I can give is to learn when to talk and when to listen. Men and women seem to get those times mixed up too often. Both either talk at the same time and argue or dont talk at all and grow cold and distant. When problems come up you have to figure out when is the best time to talk and when its time for you to listen to your significant other. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/15/2007 1:20:45 AM | OP: We are all different. What I consider fax paups in men's actions others do not and vice versa. This is something that you would have to take up with that person in particular in starting out the relationship. Being open and honest and speaking what (both) your needs and wants are is both crucial and vital in an equal give and take relationship if it is to be something that is productive, long-term and stands the test of time.
that you consider it assinine for me to even ask the question
The only stupid questions are the ones that are not asked | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/15/2007 9:24:42 AM | | A deal breaker for me would be a man that is so focused on the "prize" that he forgets to pay any attention to me and who I am am, how I react to things, how I interact with other people. This is the type of information that will give you so much insight into a woman who you are interested in. So if you are so busy trying to end run every situation you will never get to know someone and then its game over becasue you know nothing about me and will have no idea how to interact with me. And I truly believe that is why we have so many communication issues. There seem to be a lot of men that have a play book that they take as the gospel when it comes to dating/relationships. Do I want you to open a door for me? couldnt care less. Do I want flowers from you? I repeat , couldnt care less. Do I care if you bring me chocolate? guess what I am going to say. What I do want is for you to throw away all your information on women that you learned from your buddies and actually observe who I am and listen to what I am telling you. I am not the same chick that you dated last year any more than you are the last guy I dated. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/15/2007 10:29:04 AM | Woobytoodsday.... "Pay Attention!" Thank you for saying this!!!
Get to know her as an individual - stop thinking we all think alike, act alike, and want the same things! What do YOU want as a human being? I'm guessing to be respected, thought well of, to know your family and friends are happy and well and have access to the things they need to live full and happy lives. So start there - it's fairly safe to assume that's what the vast majority of people want (the few who don't are usually thought of as sociopaths,) and then get to know them as individuals. If you want a 500-words-or-less synopsis of "what women want," you're going to get a bunch of stereotypical garbage that doesn't actually apply to specific individuals. Would you - or any other man - want to be reduced to that? I hope not!
Me, I want a guy who knows what he wants and is willing to work toward it, helps around the house, has a life and spends time with me because he WANTS to, not because he feels obligated, "gets it" about family issues and the fact that family comes first (preferably from first-hand experience,) has some clue about social issues, politics, art, music, and likes to try new things, loves travel and sex, is very openminded, communicates well, and showers regularly. Loving to dance is a big plus. For other people, their priorities are going to be different, and thank goodness they are, because people just don't come with one-size-fits-all personalities. | |
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| Okay! That's enough of the expected ESP BS! Rules are, please?
Posted: 4/15/2007 11:31:18 PM | Okay, I will admit I didnt read through every post on this thread, so I may be repeating some things.
I will try to answer this in a nice list format, as I think this is what you are looking for. I will try to make it as comprehensive as possible. While these aren't all deal-breakers, they are definately something that (I think) most women look for.
-->remember her birthday, and try to do something to let her know she is special (note: this does NOT mean buying her a big present - give her a long massage, take her to a movie that she gets to pick....)
-->tell the girl you love her and mean it
-->do not cheat (that includes kissing)
-->do nice things for her, like make her dinner once in a while, or run her a bath if you know she likes baths
-->ask her how her day was (and actually listen to the answer)
-->make an effort to see her
-->don't play with yourself constantly (unless of course it's an intimate situation) - or at least try to do it while she is not looking haha
-->open a door for her if she is all dressed up.
-->complement her if she looks good/has had her hair cut
-->make sure you have toilet paper in the house when she comes over
-->make sure your place isnt so dirty that she feels like wearing a gas mask when she walks in the place
-->during sex, make sure she gets off at least 1/3 times (or at least make an effort), if you fall asleep 30secs after cumming, then make sure she gets off before that happens.
-->if you are going to take a sh*t and you know she is going to need to get her makeup/hair done, let her get her stuff out of the bathroom beforehand lol
hmm I can't think of any more. That is a pretty big this though. Most of these things revolve around showing the person that you are thinking about them, and want them to be happy. And, as said in many other posts this doesnt apply just to men, almost everything on this list is something that I would also do, or make an effort to do.
hope that adds to the answers | |
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