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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 4:44:55 PM | Hmmmm..so did Jim Jones have evryone pray before he made them drink the kool aid? I do know he was Asian, and the Jesus thing probably would not have helped a Buddist.
It is a horrible thing, and bickering over gun laws does seem small. But I think everyone agrees that it is horrible. And don't think everyone needs to shut up.
And Rae...you hang around me long enough..and you will get really smart... | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 4:54:18 PM | I'm in the camp of "really this has nothing to do with guns". If it wasn't a gun, it would have been another deadly weapon.
It is a tragedy, no doubt about that. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 78 | |
| Shootings at Virgina Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 5:06:24 PM |
I don't think any gun registry laws would have prevented him from carrying out his mission.
That's right, because the factories churning out these guns by the
thousands 24/7 know that the guns will make it on to the street.
THOUSANDS of guns are stolen every year....thousands sold to
people who have personality disorders. Thousands of people
die every year.........not because of the registry, but because of
the guns that are being constructed even during the shootings. | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 5:08:07 PM | | I'm sorry for all involved..As far as blame it could be anything anytime anywhere this guy could have been walking down the street and someone looked at him funny, and he snapped..There are many weapons that could be used not just guns...When guns are outlawed..Outlaws will have guns.. | |
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Sigi
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Joined: 5/26/2005
Msg: 80 | |
| Shootings at Virgina Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 5:14:25 PM |
I just was talking to a friend...
Guns are not all to blame...Bullying.
It starts in school...
At an early age. We need to start changing things early in childhood development, so young people don't grow into murders.
I think it starts at home. Of course a good and safe educational environment is important.
(I have been in a situation where a student, with a gun in my classroom, was threatening)
Sigi | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 5:15:48 PM | Friday, April 17, 1998
U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths
BY CHELSEA J. CARTER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.
The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000.
The study, done by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the first comprehensive international look at gun-related deaths. It was published Thursday in the International Journal of Epidemiology.
The CDC would not speculate why the death rates varied, but other researchers said easy access to guns and society's acceptance of violence are part of the problem in the United States.
``If you have a country saturated with guns -- available to people when they are intoxicated, angry or depressed -- it's not unusual guns will be used more often,'' said Rebecca Peters, a Johns Hopkins University fellow specializing in gun violence. ``This has to be treated as a public health emergency.''
The National Rifle Association called the study shoddy because it failed to examine all causes of violent deaths.
``What this shows is the CDC is after guns. They aren't concerned with violence. It's pretending that no homicide exists unless it's related to guns,'' said Paul Blackman, a research coordinator for the NRA in Fairfax, Va.
The 36 countries chosen were listed as the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, with the highest GNP per capita income.
The study used 1994 statistics supplied by the 36 countries. Of the 88,649 gun deaths reported by all the countries, the United States accounted for 45 percent, said Etienne Krug, a CDC researcher and co-author of the article.
Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.
I want all of you people against gun control to read this,your arguments simply do not make sense
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*Jay
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Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 82 | |
| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 5:15:53 PM | so word on the other forums is that this ****er caught his gf cheating, he goes to the dorm, kills her.....then he goes off to the classes and looks for the guy and shoots anyone fitting his description...the fukin psycho even chained the doors closed so no one could get out
why didn't Virginia Tech shut down the ENTIRE school if some girl just got murdered and the killer was nowhere to be found???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 5:41:49 PM | Hi,
When I first heard about this they were showing a student’s phone video made watching the police move in towards a building. I don’t know which building and I don’t know what time that video was taken, would have answered that. It hit me in the heart big time. Living close to Portland, OR, we have had too many school shootings, and also businesses where people have gone in and shot up others.
I said some prayers for the people being shot, the shooter, the police and security and school personnel trying to contend with this tragedy.
It is a big campus, what with most of the students living off campus, trying to ‘Lock Down’ the school is something easily seen as something not easily done if at all possible. It’s not like grade schools.
Who knows what reasons this guy had, or people, to go on a shooting rage like this. Seemed from what has been reported so far that the shooter they know about was organized on this. We will eventually know and will be able to share more coherent feelings and thoughts on this. Amazes me that some people are blaming this on our President who only called to give his condolences and to offer any type of help that would be needed. Explains why they have their points of view.
It was not fun hearing the popping noises of gun fire and then later finding out it was only the shooter inside shooting. I feel for the police that had to contend with this, not being able to control it better. The police do not respond like they do on TV shows and in cartoons, no directors there to say action or cut, no lighting experts, no dialogue coaches, no redoes. I admire people that have dedicated their lives to going in when others would only want to run out. Seeing that they were doing what they could brought tears to my eyes when I saw them carrying out some of the wounded, in an organized and yet fast manner.
Sadly, CBS will have Katie Curic giving a report on this tonight. She sounded as dumb as she normally does when she was asking the same questions over and over to the Police Chief and the School Personnel at the Press Conference. They had just gone over every thing she asked about and they were looking at her like where have you been. She was there the whole time. I hope another channel will have more on this so I can get good stuff instead of packaged marketing crap. I will continue to surf the Internet to find more on this.
Oh, man, hurts just as bad as when that kid Kinkle went on a shooting spree at his High School after killing his parents earlier. No one really knew anything about why or what until afterwards. The good thing is that the media wasn’t savvy enough to use it as a marketing tool, they were only reporting the facts as they came out which is their job. I hope this doesn’t get turned into some political BS thing.
Gun control laws do little if anything at all other than restrict the moral gun owners. I don’t have a gun and most likely never will. I have gone hunting, with drunk rednecks and I will not do that again. There is something to the idea of making it harder for people to get guns so that the people that get them illegally will have a harder time and eventually not to be able to get guns at all. That is a pipe dream, not going to happen. Maybe making sure that people that have guns take care of them properly, educate themselves and their family members and the people they live with about them would be smart and couldn’t hurt. Too many times I go to friends houses or other houses and there I will see guns laying around. Tucked behind the sofa, under the sofa, with in reach, next to the bed, or just laying out in the open. Usually a macho person owns them and really shouldn’t have them as they can’t take care of them in a responsible manner. Kids walking around, even picking them up and play acting like they are shooting someone. I think gun owners like that should be taken care of more sternly than people that snap and do what this guy did today. Hardly anyone keeps their guns locked, with those trigger locks, because they think it demeans them as men. Most ladies I know with guns you wouldn’t be able to tell that unless they told you. I think the careless gun use is a mirror of our insecure macho man society. I have taken guns away from people that have pulled them on me. No, I wasn’t doing anything wrong but they were. One guy came up behind me and said he had a gun to my head. I broke his hand as I spun around trying to remove the gun that wasn’t there. He was only joking but I hope he won’t do that again. I can see the use of guns for defense, because they are more widely used for offense. There just needs to be more dialogue on this subject every where. Sticking to political ideals doesn’t help, it only deadens your hearing. Dialogue can only happen by listening.
Still can’t get over people blaming the President on this. They wouldn’t do that if it was Bildo still in office. That guy ran our economy into the ground, facts back that up big time, yet I’ll bet the people blaming the current President for this shooting haven’t a clue about that. I am not a Republican, used to be a Democrat but the Clintonian Regime cured me of that. I am a Liberal, an actual Liberal, as I do exercise my intellect.
Dang, there I go getting political. Sorry.
I hope more information comes out to quell the political sides expressed so far. Also so that we can all come to grips with this sad and tragic event. I am praying for those wounded and the Medical Teams taking care of them. Sombient, you are correct, it must have been a chaotic time in the ERs.
Peace to you All!
Thanks,
Eddie | |
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| Shootings at Virgina Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 5:54:13 PM |
When this prayer started the school day, just a few decades ago...the biggest problem teachers had was gun chewing.
Perhaps, they shouldn't have banned God! because there doesn't seem to be anyone protecting our children from the evil one anymore.
It really doesn't apply to this case since it was a college, but God was not banned from any school. The schools were banned from forcing their religion unto others. Your kids can pray all day long if they so wish as long as they don't disrupt the class.
But for the sake of argument... It appears god abandoned these victims as well. Did god step in at any point and protect these people? | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 5:58:07 PM |
I'm in the camp of "really this has nothing to do with guns". If it wasn't a gun, it would have been another deadly weapon.
Yeah, I'm sure if he had an ice pick the death toll would have been much, much greater. For all we know he ran out of bullets. With an ice pick he would have been totally unstopable. | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:15:40 PM | He shot between 50-100 rounds. I doubt he shot all of the clips he was carrying (vest was full of them, typical clip (depends on weapon) carries say, 12-20 rounds. He was carrying two guns.
Why didn't anybody jump him when he was reloading? At least some students had the sense to see what the noise was ..and then act quickly to shut the doors and re-enforce them with tables/podium, when he tried to enter classrooms. Those rooms had shots fired into them, but no one was killed. 
This perp didn't just wander into buildings. He chose them. I think he was behind the bomb threats last week. He did kill only one girl. And he did have a target destination in mind, at a certain time and place (Engineering building complexes, 9am classes). Its NOT clear that he entered more than one building in the Engineering Complex, despite previous reports.
What doesn't make sense is him entering the Norris Building 2nd floor classrooms and killing indiscriminately -- unless he didn't care who else he killed, as long as he got his target. Might be that he didn't know exactly who the purported girlfriend had been seeing, just suspected or had a vague idea.
Maybe the word on the street that Jay mentions makes sense as a reason for his killing spree. A crime of passion and revenge. He went psycho. | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:15:41 PM | very very SAD ,
I think i heard on the news that a law was just voted against ,that would have allowed students (most who are law abiding people) to carry hand guns.If one would have had one he could have possibly shot this murder before he killed so many. Now they say he wasn't a student or an American . | |
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| Shootings at Virgina Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:17:19 PM | SweetTreat --------> I'm not denying that we have a problem here, but to just assume that "stricter gun control" laws will quell the issue is F**KING IGNORANT.
"Oh, well it'll be harder"
Right.
Just like its sooooooooooo hard to get a brick, right?
Wow. | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:21:22 PM | twdfish^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
yes ...............what a great idea ......all of the kids in school being able to carry guns?
your profile says you are from Arkansas is that correct?
did any of you people read me post above????
Friday, April 17, 1998
U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths
BY CHELSEA J. CARTER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
where I live in Canada......when someone freaks out,he might stab one person,maybe 2.....because guns are not available like chewing tabacco and a 6-pack of beer.....
and the stats in my above post about 'murders/gun deaths per 100,00 people'
---- a much lower incident of deaths here in Canada.....hmmmmm (more than 3 times more gun deaths in the USA)
wonder why that is? | |
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Genrae
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Joined: 11/10/2006
Msg: 90 | |
| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:21:54 PM | rk92559, I'd settle for just learning to place the correct number of digits in your name.
Rae | |
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| Shootings at Virgina Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:24:13 PM | why didn't Virginia Tech shut down the ENTIRE school if some girl just got murdered and the killer was nowhere to be found?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Because there was no apparent reason to do so. They arrived to what witnesses described as a domestic assault. It seemed to be over.
Think about it: how many mass murders have you heard of where the killer takes a break for 2 hours and then starts shooting again?
It's really easy to sit back and judge from your armchair with the benefit of hindsight, but there was NO reason to suspect that there would be a second shooting.
I want all of you people against gun control to read this,your arguments simply do not make sense
Perhaps you should read what you are citing more carefully: "The CDC would not speculate why the death rates varied..."
I have done an extensive [research] literature review of the subject. There are some measures that DO decrease firearms-related deaths, but a lot of measures taken are taken simply because they sound good and 'sell' politically - my problem with that is that useless measures take resources away from measures that DO work. For example, the MOST effective way to decrease firearms-related violence is to have a waiting period for purchase. Another effective measure is the requirement to complete and pass a firearms safety course. Registration of firearms, restriction or prohibition of certain weapons sound good and are popular but aren't effective.
sv | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:27:37 PM | As I was reading this on the net today at work, I couldn't help but be completely aphauled at the lack of responsibility that the school had for it's faculty and students. A bloody email??? WTF were they thinking? At the first sound of gunfire they should've been on the loud speakers and warning everyone to take cover, hide, run away or at the very least lock the doors.
I cannot believe that they felt it wasn't necessary to warn the students until it was too late. I am quite certain a few heads are going to roll once the investigation by the police has settled down. The President of the school should be ashamed of this conduct and needs to rethink his emergency information release program.
What a tragic day for Virginia, Virginia Tech, the students, the faculty, the families, the NATION.
My heart aches for these families with the lives so unnecessarily taken.
I'm at a total loss emotionally over this entire situation. | |
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| Shootings at Virgina Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:41:27 PM | SweetTreat --------> I'm not denying that we have a problem here, but to just assume that "stricter gun control" laws will quell the issue is F**KING IGNORANT.
I love how people just jump right past the issue. How hard is it to understand that if 100 people (who want guns) in one city have easy access to guns and 100 people (who want guns) in another city, have a real hard time getting their hands on them...that one group of people will have more guns than the other? Did I say it's the only solution? No...so don't assume that I did. Stricter laws to purchase, to possess, to maintain, etc is what's needed....to start. Than move on from there. I'm sorry, but when a bank offers you a free gun when you open up a bank account, I'd say there is a real problem with the leniancy of guns, wouldn't you? And altho I did see that on Michael Moores Coumbine, I also have an Uncle that lives in Pennsylvania (he hunts) that walked into a bank and got a gun from opening an account, so I'm not just "going with hype" on the issue.
Just like its sooooooooooo hard to get a brick, right?
PLEASE tell me how many people walk around not only committing murder with bricks, but can also wipe out 10...15..or 33 people? Seriously, who's the ignorant one?
where I live in Canada......when someone freaks out,he might stab one person,maybe 2.....because guns are not available like chewing tabacco and a 6-pack of beer.....
and the stats in my above post about 'murders/gun deaths per 100,00 people'
---- a much lower incident of deaths here in Canada.....hmmmmm (more than 3 times more gun deaths in the USA)
wonder why that is?
Exactly. It's not the point that violence doesn't exsist, because it does...EVERYWHERE. But when violence occurs, it's natural to reach for the first weapon at hand...and if guns are that accessible, and it's there, what do you think a person will choose? I can't even remember the last time someone died in my city from a gun shot wound..hell I can even remember the last time I heard of someone being shot. | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:42:30 PM | | This is horrific and nightmarish..... my condolences to the victims and their families, the wounded, and the others traumatized by the events. Does anyone know if the teachers carried mandatory blackberries or cellphones to receive that email message? Also Jay.... where did you get the info on the murder going after a cheating gf and then the male third party? If this was an act of vengence, someone (or more) missed some very scary signs out there :( I agree, upon the first shooting (whereas they didn't shut down the campus as it was deemed a domestic dispute), it should have been taken more seriously. I am sure they have a manual that addresses armed attacks as well as bomb threats. | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:43:51 PM | I am just wondering if the shooter left family are people around where he lived hurt are dead as well. Wonder if they checked to see yet. I would hate to think some other people might be laying there waiting for help. (Finger print the man and let people know who he is, so """in case""" someothers are hurt they can get help to. That are he had a pack with others that didn't follow threw with it. I think the first ones dead are the true clue to what was up.) If no one else is hurt, he must of had a proublem with that area of people, are making a statement of some kind.
They said on t.v. they sent e-mails to people. I dought that helps people that aren't on e-mail every min, and every place they go. Heaven help someone that walks into that, that hadn't checked a e-mail, are heard about a e-mail. Say someone delivering flowers are something. I still think alarm system going off, until its over would be good. Screw up the peoples thinking, and they can't hear whats going on but that. Maybe the cops could get in faster. People could point the way on their way out. | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:44:00 PM | ******I want all of you people against gun control to read this,your arguments simply do not make sense****
1994?? You do know that was 13 yrs ago..right?
You could fit about half of those countries into Texas.
And we have far more inner city crime, because we have far more large cities.
We also have the right to bear arms. Who really cares what our numbers are?? Other than maybe Canada, I wouldn' want to live in any of those countries.
And really don't see where anyone has to offer someone from Alberta any excuse or argument over our rights. And to be fair, how about the studies from half the countries that are "rich" of the amount of people that die from mal nutrition, poor water, and no health care, and how many are illiterate?
And you should take at least 2 points off and give them back to Mexico.( they are all over here)
Estonia?? Isn't that about the size of Rhode Island??
Isreal has a number like 2.91, have you ever watched the news??
Italy?? I am sure the Mafia registers all their guns.
Kuwait...who needs guns??..Just call the US.
Northern Ireland....I guess the IRA threw rocks at people? Maybe they should do a study to see how many in Isreal and northern Ireland were killed by bombs compared to our handguns here.
Maybe if we get rid of the guns , the idiots will just take a page from these other countries and load up on some explosives and take the entire library out instead of just shooting people. Makes sense. | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:46:17 PM |
President "Bombs-A-Lot" Bush, in his infinite wisdom, sent his condolences,
but quickly added that Americans had the right to bear arms. So admist all
the blood shed and tragedy, he takes the "opportunity" - no matter how
ill-timed, to ensure the National Riflearms Association, knows he is not in
favour of tighter gun control regulations.
They do.
How am I harming you if I possess a Beretta M93R semiautomatic pistol?
Michael | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:48:13 PM |
The discussion here is shootings in schools.
And how is that morally different from bombing markets in Baghdad or Tel Aviv?
Michael | |
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| Shootings at Virginia Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:48:38 PM | It's comments like this...
Maybe if we get rid of the guns , the idiots will just take a page from these other countries and load up on some explosives and take the entire library out instead of just shooting people. Makes sense.
And like this....
Gun control laws? As long as there are laws, there will be people who break them, so tighter laws isn't the answer
That make me wonder about people. I take from the above comments the feeling of "why bother toughening up laws, it's gonna happen anyway." With that kind of attitude, why have laws in the first place! Let's make it a free for all..wahoo! | |
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| Shootings at Virgina Tech
Posted: 4/16/2007 6:49:21 PM |
I think our gun law is great, and I can count on about 2 fingers the amount of school shootings we've had here.
Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal
Concordia University, Montreal
Myers High School, Taber
Dawson College, Montreal
Those are just the most memorable ones. See: http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=56cd4afe-edd6-4253-ae52-698ef78e7712 | |
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