| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 1:31:52 AM | | Speaking of independant women and all does bring an observation sort of off topic. Just wondering if anyone has notice that in the Ask a Girl forum there is a whole lot less women actually willing to respond to a guy asking a question than the guys responding to women's questions in the Ask a Guy forum? I mean I always thought communication was vital in any relationship wheather just family, friends, or something more serious. And it just seems like the guys are doing a majority of communication compared to the women. Might be wrong.... | |
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 7:27:29 AM | "Just curious... who's information is the "correct" information anyway? What may be "correct" for one person is not "correct" for another. It's about perception... "
Ahem. There actually is such a thing as reality. Truth is not entirely subjective. Indeed I don't think it is subjective at all. Opinion is subjective, but truth is "correct description of facts" and it either is or is not correct however correctness is not absolute, it is statistical.
Statements are true to the degree that they correctly describe reality.
Statements that do not describe reality but merely restate what is already implied in their terms (i.e., tautologies) are better called "valid" rather than "true" in order to distinguish them from descriptive statements.
An example of a "valid" statement is " 2 + 2 = 4 ". VALID statements cannot be statistically true - they must be absolute, so " 2 + 2 " cannot be 3.99999 or 4.00001 but must be 4.
Are strong, independent women a turn-off?
A true statement might be: I do not like strong independent women.
Another might be: I do like strong independent women.
Either is a statement not about the woman but about yourself and can be true.
Here are true statements about myself:
1. I like strong independent women.
2. I choose to be around strong independent women.
3. I am not much interested in women who are weak and dependent.
4. I am strong and independent and like women to be my equal.
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 9:24:50 AM |
Ahem. There actually is such a thing as reality. Truth is not entirely subjective. Indeed I don't think it is subjective at all. Opinion is subjective, but truth is "correct description of facts" and it either is or is not correct however correctness is not absolute, it is statistical.
Statements are true to the degree that they correctly describe reality.
I am talking about reality. Here's some examples though.
EXAMPLE 1:
Day 1: You get ready for work in a suit. Big business meeting. It's raining outside that day and you end up getting your suit ruined a bit on the way to and from your car. That day the rain is "bad". That is the truth of your experience that day.
Day 2: You go to the gym to work out. Surprise surprise, another day of rain. Hot, sweaty you step out and cool off in the rain. That day the rain is "good" because it's cooling you off and that is YOUR truth that day. The rain didn't change yet your truth of it did because of your perception of it did.
EXAMPLE 2:
To some a zebra is a white horse with black stripes. To another it is a black horse with white stripes. And still to another it is a horse with both black and white stripes equally. It's all about the person's perception.
EXAMPLE 3:
The world use to be thought of as flat. That was the truth of most people for the longest time before Galileo "discovered" it was round. Now the truth most people have is that it is round from the perceptions given.
Yet it won't matter what is stated. Just like a religion, you seem to want everyone to believe in what you believe. They have to outright insist they are "right" and everyone else believing different no matter how good intentioned are "wrong" because then much of their teachings will fall through if they have to admit that their truth is just another perception, a piece of a whole puzzle. That your beliefs are the only ones that are "right" or "truth", and making everyone else "wrong" and labeling them with judgements like "Oh that person is just young and doesn't know...". | |
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 11:15:08 AM | Day 1: You get ready for work in a suit. Big business meeting. It's raining outside that day and you end up getting your suit ruined a bit on the way to and from your car. That day the rain is "bad". That is the truth of your experience that day.
Day 2: You go to the gym to work out. Surprise surprise, another day of rain. Hot, sweaty you step out and cool off in the rain. That day the rain is "good" because it's cooling you off and that is YOUR truth that day. The rain didn't change yet your truth of it did because of your perception of it did.
...................................................................................................
Not quite. "God" and "bad" are moral judgments. Rain has no morality. What is TRUE is that on one day you are pleased by the rain and on another day you think it sucks. The rain doesn't know or care what you think. The cleanest communication is when you describe what is so for YOU - and nobody is better qualified than you are to say what YOU think. So how about "I do/do not enjoy it."
To get back on thread - I DO enjoy strong independent women. They are not "good" or "bad" they are just what they are. And MY feelings about them are mine and mine alone. Nobody knows better than I know, what I think about strong independent women.
The shape of the Earth is the same now as it was before Galileo. People are not happy to give up comfort for the sake of evidence but the universe doesn't care. Life was evolving before Darwin figured it out, and the Earth has been revolving around the Sun for zillions of years longer than anybody knew it was doing it. | |
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| Are strong independant women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 3:22:20 PM | JUSTcallMEkat I totally empathize with you! When my dad passed my family split apart too! I have been on my own literally since I was 17. Yeah, I wish I had a trust fund to fall back on. But you get a certain strength of character when you are literally on your own. That you have to fend for yourself. That you can't put a price on!!
I'm independent. Therefore I'm open minded but not needy or clingy.
Abandonment has definitely made me a stronger person!!
I can definitely appreciate those qualities in a woman.
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| Are strong independant women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 3:27:20 PM |
You can't pick and choose what you want.
Wouldn't want to myself, I appreciate it when someone (male or female) is just sincerely and genuinely themselves. I'd much prefer to have a man be non-chivalrous if that's his nature rather than to just act chivalrous because he thinks it'll please me or win points. | |
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| Are strong independant women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 7:26:44 PM | A woman instists on paying her half of the date?
Liked to drive 1/2 the time?
Made more money than you?
Would rather try to solve and issue herself before she would accept help?
Sure, I'm down for that. But someone constantly roaring on and on about their independence, bitter and bitchy about it. I'll pass.
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| Are strong independant women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 7:42:44 PM | Thank you manhandle.. I too have an open mind from 'fending' for myself since I was a teenager. This whole subject really has NO correct answer.. One of those questions that no matter the answer it is neither right or wrong.. since the answer is completely based on opinion.
I really dont care much who does what.. as long as its fair, mutual... and for God's sakes... if I drive all the way to see you, pay for dinner and all... Im getting laid that night! 
Im just kidding! I just like to be fair! Strength and independance set aside!
2 are better than 1! | |
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| Are strong independant women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:06:43 PM | | Frankly, I do not care for someone who has to prove that they are independent. That can create problems and does create problems in relationships with women feeling they must assert themselves when the guy is actually well-intentioned and not even an aggressive male and is just trying to enjoy himself with the girl. Some women often put up these massive walls to prove they are so strong and then have a very hard time letting someone in and sabotage relationship after relationship. This is happening a lot, I suspect. Men and women don't need to compete with each other, they need to have a relationship of give and give. That's my take. I get nervous if a woman has to talk a lot about how she is independent. Why am I going to assume otherwise? I prefer a woman show me she can handle herself without having to make a major point about it, but that's just me. I prefer a woman who has no problem telling me when she is feeling down, when she is not her best, but not to be a basket case or weak. I don't want someone who is weak except when it is humanly natural on some days or she's going through a tough time like all of us. | |
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 4/25/2008 10:27:16 PM | Answers:
No, in fact I would expect her to just out of courtesy , regardless who asked who out..I would do the same.
That is so irrelevant, any guy that would have an issue with this...has got some issues, sorry.
Another totally irrelevant point to any sane, confident and non sexist normal guy.
That would be so awesome, I've always had the misfortune of dealing with women that *pour out their problems* and then beat up on you for offering solutions. True, they may not have asked specifically for a solution but that is like waving a warm pot of honey before a hungry bear, most guys just can't help trying to solve problems!! I wouldn't mind at all.
Some guys like the idea of baby sitting their woman, basically having the show piece doll to cart around town but other guys want a peer or God forbid , someone that can actually make them better in ways that she may exceed him. I love those kind of challenges but they are rare coming from women, at least the ones I've met thus far. | |
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 7/17/2008 2:26:13 PM | strong, independant women are great, the only thing is they're harder to find than the el derado, the lost city of gold. i mean, every man wants to know he's needed and wanted, but he also wants a woman that can take care of herself to a certain degree. as for the above listed questions, i think its great for a woman to want to help out in the top two, as long as she can drive that is. that's show's she's not only independant but considerate as well. the whole making more money with than me thing, if my significant other is okay with it, why shouldn't i be. i mean you can't throw it in a guys face all the time, we all have our pride. but that shouldn't really be an issue. the last is a tough one for guys, because we are raised and wired to try to be problem solvers. so sometimes when they can clearly see the answer, its frusterating when a woman won't except the help. however, i have found most women are like this in at least half the aspects of thier life.
last and but not least, i'll give a scenario to illistrate my point and postition on the issue. say you find the love of your life, you get married, have children, the whole bit. suddenly something tragic occurs and you are gone, taken from your family. would you rather have a strong indepenant woman who you know can take care of things after your gone, or one who is weak and will be with anyone just to have some one and be taken care, even if it means putting your children in a bad position.
hope i've been helpful.
later.
bill | |
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 7/17/2008 3:05:30 PM | whats more ideal than an independent women? it discards the thought of her being a gold digger. if she can support herself and she wants a commited relationship where u can support eachother equally, then thats marriage material! not that i plan to get married anytime soon but im just saying that would be the ideal girl id want to be with.  i have yet to find such a woman all the girls i find want to be pampered and have you do EVERYTHING for them. i dont mind pampering my lady to show that she is special but its impotant to have an equal relationship. i think dependent women are the ones who are more prepared for a serious relationship. | |
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:59:31 PM |
I have no problem; but don't **** the next time a guy doesn't show chivalry. You can't pick and choose what you want. Forget the whole chivalry thing. That suggests that it's one way. How about instead men and women do wonderful nice things for each other because they want to instead of some outdated idea. Both should hold doors open for each other, both should help each other out, both should make the other feel like the most special person on the face of the planet. An independent woman is not incapable of those things. | |
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:45:51 PM |
For example; Would it bother you if... A woman instists on paying her half of the date? Liked to drive 1/2 the time? Made more money than you?
Not a problem for me.
I expect them to pay for half of the dates.
And whoever's car we take drives.
But I'm 53 and in Canada. In my age group, in my part of the world, it is usually a problem for women when they are in a significantly better financial position than the man. (I don't think small differences matter.)
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 7/21/2008 8:06:20 AM | I would like to open this topic here with the same topic but with a better definition of strong independent women.
Would it bother you if:
A woman refused you paying for anything for her because she is independent and doesn't want to be taken care of?
A woman who liked to drive because while driving she felt more in control, free and independent?
A woman that considered her job a testament to her independence?
A woman that could not include you in the issues of her life because she felt that her vulnerability would detract from her independence?
The original questions were nothing more than a socially responsible woman. Highly unlikely for anyone to actually have an issue with because anything less would be nearing dependant. The topic post is "strong independent women" and I think we have experienced them and know the difference.
To answer my own re post of the question.
Yes, they are a turn off at this point in my life. I do not think it is in any way attractive for a long term relationship when a woman feels it is necessary to state that she is a strong independent women if it seems that will translate to, "I do not and will not make myself vulnerable in any way to a man. I do not need nor want anyone to take care of any part of my life except those things I think should be your responsibility."
Thanks. Hope this is the proper way to re open a discussion... Too bad a woman didn't restate the questions... | |
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| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 8/21/2008 10:52:39 PM | I think any time you have to count points in a relationship you are asking for a heaping helping of resentment...If I ask you out for dinner, and I will, I fully expect to pay for it because I want to. If you take me somewhere, and you can, I fully expect you to pay for it...who really cares?! I would be happy with a free walk on the beach if the company was right, anyway!
I am independant, which affords me the ability to choose the company I keep wisely instead of "needing it" to provide what I cannot provide for myself. I think that when people come into relationships on relatively even footing, they have a better chance of sustaining a mutually beneficial one, but sharing is good, my mommy said so.
Lori | |
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| Are strong independant women a turn off?
Posted: 8/23/2008 8:25:22 AM | | Frankly, I can tell you that I like a woman who is modest, likes to show that she is feminine (is not embarassed to do so), appreciates a man who is trying to be a gentleman and courteous, doesn't need to emphasize that she is independent and emphasizes that she expects respect as a person and a woman, and that both people regardless of gender should have some independence. Generally, I think most men prefer a woman who has some of the stereotypical female qualities, but they want a woman who is strong enough to hold her own side of the fort, so to speak, and be an asset to the man, just as she expects a man to be an asset. They need to complement each other in the end. I like someone who has a cooperative spirit. | |
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zeeba
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Joined: 3/27/2008
Msg: 200 | |
| Are strong independent women a turn off?
Posted: 8/23/2008 8:35:14 AM |
Would it bother you if:
A woman refused you paying for anything for her because she is independent and doesn't want to be taken care of?
A woman who liked to drive because while driving she felt more in control, free and independent?
A woman that considered her job a testament to her independence?
A woman that could not include you in the issues of her life because she felt that her vulnerability would detract from her independence?
1. I like taking turns on paying for lunches or dinners out, movies, or other activities.
2. I don't mind driving if we are in my own area and I know the roads better. I also like the man to drive, and if he holds the passenger's door open for me, all the better and he'll get a big "thank-you." I'll also reach over and open his door for him!
3. Well, my career is a testament to my independence. I love earning my own living and being successful in my profession. So, that's isn't ever going to change. I admire a man who is the same way, regardless of his profession.
4. I will include the man in the issues of my life if I trust him, and feel like he isn't going to run away screaming if I tell him about a problem (!)
Those are my answers! So, I guess I am a strong independent woman... | |
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