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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/22/2007 8:42:49 AM | Specifically regarding the OP - Uhm. Speaking from a public school perspective, being one that attended a public school... Christian kids are allowed to pray in school. They're just not allowed to do it out loud in the classroom. It's disruptive, since it is not something that is mandatory. The education of children is mandatory.
When I was in 8th grade, I hung out with a group of individuals. One was a druid. Four were varying other forms of pagan. Six were Christian or Catholic. We got along just fine. We had our discussions about religion and who had the right idea, but we didn't diminish each others way of thinking either. And when there was a bomb threat in the school we all gathered together and prayed to our respective God(s). Silently, we prayed together to different deities, but we were all holding hands.
The reason that public schools don't allow prayer out loud in the classroom is SIMPLY that it is disruptive to the education of others. If a kid wants to bow his head and say a silent prayer it is perfectly acceptable. (at least, where I come from)
And... from what I've seen of previous generations, the problems are the same it is only the tools of stupidity that have changed. As well, we are more able to voice what has happened to us than our foremothers and forefathers. Why? Because before drugs, sex, violence were all things you did not speak of. Things that were kept quiet, within the family, and not discussed. The reasons for my opinions on this are simply the viewing of various family members, and what they have said to me regarding their childhoods and their friends from youth.
It is not fair to show such disrespect for modern youth, when the youths of previous generations were just as bad... the only difference between them are 1. guns and other weapons are more easily accessable 2. People actually talk about it now, instead of hiding what happens.
Besides which, not everyone is a hoodlum. These generations have poets, academic scholars, scientists, as well as the misunderstood. Perhaps if society took a little more time to understand the problems of youth it'd be easier to have them understand what errors they are making.
I suggest watching Freedom Writers, or even doing a little research on the topic. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 52 | |
| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/22/2007 9:47:23 PM | Want some police oriented fun that will get your blood running?
Check this ish out.
ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk0_WTsAiY4 | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/23/2007 10:54:13 PM | I went to a private Christian school during my high school years and they had a strict policy of corporal punishment they believed in the verse spare the rod, spoil the child. The way that this went was if I broke a rule in school I was taken to the principals office, a phone call was placed to my mom or dad letting them know my infraction, then I was paddled, this was the same for all the kids in that school. There was NO violence in the school, we all conducted ourselves in a manner that was a credit to our parents. Before high shool I went to a public school, during the last 2 years of my grade school education at the public school the principal eliminated the paddling for kids breaking the rules, there was no detention at that time and the kids began to run wild, there were fights, bigger kids were picking on littler kids and generally the kids were running amok. I am unsure due to the fact that the principal never let it escalate too far but I believe that eventually the school would have been shot up. The principal decided to implement a different form of corporal punishment, he was a former army drill seargeant and began to treat the students who broke the rules in the same way he used to treat the new recruits in basic training, I noticed a marked improvement. It is my firm belief that kids must have boundaries, I still believe that if you spank a child, not in anger but in a manner and a way that they understand the reasoning behind why the discipline is happening the child is better off for it.
Kara | |
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d.t.o
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Joined: 2/26/2007
Msg: 54 | |
| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/23/2007 11:23:32 PM | Two words for "good christians" Jerry falwell, good riddance ass@#$% !
I am an atheist,as is my right.If I had children,the last place I would send them is to a school, that will brainwash them into hatred ,and the fear of the "eye in the sky"
Enough said..also, corporal punishment is so 1800's.As a society ,let's stop striking our children, and teaching them intolerance and fear. Be well DTO | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/24/2007 12:12:30 AM | Well, all I can say is that it seems to boil down to a difference in ideals.
Ideally, on the one hand, there's the school where the children's parents discipline them and they learn appropriate behaviour before ever getting to school. This model recognises that, in addition to parents' exclusive right of corporal punishment, only the parents have the right to say in what manner they want their children's spirituality or religiosity to be moulded. Effectively, it's all on the parents, yes?
On the other hand, there are different fingers, generally held more tightly together. According to this ideal, children are expected to be punished physically and immediately when they commit an infraction, in order that they'll make the connexion and learn from the experience. Also, the authority figures, the teachers, are granted the further element of moral authority, according to whatever system of belief is dominant, which not only supports their power as lawgivers, but establishes the absolutes behind the morals to be taught.
Of course, there are intermediate preferences, but these are the extremes that tend to tear up society in the kinds of "culture wars" that insist on addressing these things (school prayer and paddling) as causal agents in determining the later results in society. The issue is that these two diametrically opposed viewpoints, Nurturant vs. Strict Authoritarian, tend to oversimplify the problems involved. Let's address each issue separately, then in tandem.
While the Nurturant standpoint apparently overlooks the fact that these are barely-civilised, impulsive children being discussed, the Authoritarian viewpoint doesn't seem to see the Pavlovian base of its disciplinary stance, or at least not to mind it. Regarding the amount of discipline a child may have, realise, or exercise, it varies with age, gender, and individual propensity, as well as being influenced by the child's home life. I always get the impression that, from the Nurturant standpoint, the attempt is made to take such factors into account in all cases, creating all manner of extra work for educators, who finally throw up their hands in resignation and simply expect the parents to "do their job". Well, they should, honestly, but in the context of the classroom, the teacher needs to establish his or her authority and have the means to "back it up". No, this isn't an argument for the paddle, necessarily, but it does show that some form of effective punishment must be devised, in order to establish and maintain discipline. From the Authoritarian side of things, that's where we get the baseline standard of effectiveness: pain. Everyone understands pain, and everyone in the same situation ought to realise that, if you do a thing and are hurt for it, you don't want to do that thing. Makes sense, right? 'Course, then you take into account all those varying factors from earlier, and even the Authoritarian realises that the pain factor is effective in some instances, while not in others. Nor, is it necessarily appropriate in all instances. I honestly don't have an answer to this one, but I feel that the parents, the community, and the schools probably ought to hash out what's appropriate for their neck of the woods, kinda deal.
As to prayer, I'll give my answer up front: No. Emphatically, no. Not only do government institutions not have the authority to inculcate their charges in religious or religiously moral issues, but that's not their function. Beyond that, with regard to the two standpoints mentioned, ethical behaviour ought to be enough of a compromise for both, as far as what is taught to schoolchildren. If, as in the previous instance, a community is unified in desiring religious indoctrination alongside factual and objective methodological education, let them establish and maintain for the youth of their community, their own private educational institutions. It's been done, yeah?
Where the two issues overlap, then, isn't an issue in itself, except in those cases where one of the extremes is arguing from an ideological foundation that they must. Those arguments tend to start off as garbage and go downhill, so I won't get into them. The point, however, behind all of this is the argument that "young people" are "out of control" in a general sense (and we all know, don't we, that all generalisations are false), and what's needed is for them to behave appropriately in society, a significant portion of the training for which they will receive in educational institutions.
Bottom line, discipline and ethical behaviour are paramount, whether or not firearms exist or have been used. This fact is ubiquitous. I realise, believe it or not, that I haven't provided a solution (perhaps I'll come back with one later), but I hope I've helped clarify the actual issues at hand (whichever hand you choose). | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/24/2007 2:22:02 AM | Yeah live in 1907, when your hubby would have not been a good god fearin' man unless he was beating you and the kids. And women didn't vote or talk back.
Spanking only teaches kids that it is OK to lash out and hit people when you are frustrated. Loving parents need never strike a child and should never do so in anger. If a teacher strikes a child they are fired from their job and charged by police. And rightly so.
The good old USA was founded by occultists such as Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, both 30 degree Masons, when that meant secret ceremonies, not Shriner hats and children's charities. Who based the country on a separation of church and state.
Why do so many Christians think that their way is better and that they are better, than others? Thank the Goddess we live where there are more Buddhists and Wiccans than Baptists!
My kids believe in the Goddess and the God, and they attend seasonal community rituals and I do not want them being indoctrinated into Christianity in school. We openly discuss that some people believe Jesus is god.
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/24/2007 3:30:07 AM |
Spanking only teaches kids that it is OK to lash out and hit people when you are frustrated. This is only a valid point if the child only ever perceives physical punishment as a result of frustration, though. As an exercise of loving moral authority, it can be an effective method of discipline.
The good old USA was founded by occultists such as Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, both 30 degree Masons, when that meant secret ceremonies, not Shriner hats and children's charities. Evidence? As I recall, there were a number of men involved in the creation of the country, not all of whom were members of secret societies.
Who based the country on a separation of church and state. Technically, they didn't even do that, but included in the Constitution a restriction on Congress' abilities, specifically to prevent it from messing about with religion. The country itself, last I checked, was based on a contract between the governed and the governing that respects the rights of the people and the authority of the government.
Why do so many Christians think that their way is better and that they are better, than others? It's a foundational tenet of the religion. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/24/2007 1:50:51 PM | >Spanking only teaches kids that it is OK to lash out and hit people when you are frustrated.
Taking kids toys away teaches them that it's O.K. to steal other people's belongings. What loving parent would teach a concept like this?
>Loving parents need never strike a child and should never do so in anger. If a teacher strikes a child they are fired from their job and charged by police. And rightly so.
Yeah, but police can strike parents with a baton or use a gun if they resist arrest or tackle them if they try to run away. This is deemed acceptable in our society and is a double-standard, in my book. If there's no reason to use strike kids, there's no reason to strike adults. Violence begets violence and shouldn't be used anyone. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/24/2007 2:09:37 PM |
Yeah, but police can strike parents with a baton or use a gun if they resist arrest or tackle them if they try to run away. This is deemed acceptable in our society and is a double-standard, in my book. If there's no reason to use strike kids, there's no reason to strike adults. Violence begets violence and shouldn't be used anyone.
Perhaps you would prefer the police response to violent criminals to be saying "Please stop, or I'll say the word 'stop' again"
In any case, those trained to deal with violent people (children or adults) generally are taught to restrain them or avoid them, not to beat them. Not everyone obeys their teachings however.
In addition, children in school and adults on the street are different people in different arenas, so the methods that are deemed appropriate in one situation may not be deemed appropriate in the other.
As an aside, those who stand against spanking in schools are not necessarily anti-spanking, they are only against spankings performed by teachers. In my opinion it is fitting for the school to tell the parents if their kid did something wrong and leaving the disciplinary action up to the parent - which may involve spanking, grounding, time out, whatever. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/24/2007 10:36:06 PM | | Sorry, but IMO, when a child does something wrong.....swears, spits in your face, etc.......the punishment should be done NOW.......not waiting to see what mom or dad will do.....if anything. I have worked a substitute teacher, and had students as young as 3rd grade tell me to "F***-OFF!" and a HS student spit in my face. When a 8/9 year old uses that kind of language, you either give him a spanking or wash his mouth out with soap.....or both. However, he got a nice little time out, as "That's little Jonny-so-and-so, and he does that all the time" as the playground aide infomred me. Little Jonny was climbing on something he was not supposed to be on.....sort of a display area with railroad ties and landscape timbers. I asked him to get down.....he used the "F" word, and I went Drill Sergent on him, and told him to get down again, go sit on THAT bench, and not to move a muscle until I told him he could.....and did he understand me? Apparently Little Jonny had never been spoken to like this, as he became very submissive, climbed quickly down and sat on that bench. I then asked the playground aide what should be done.....I was doing recess duty at the time as well.......but wanted to know school policy. She told me to give him a little time out.....5-10 minutes. However.....I informed her that was not enough, and Little Jonny and I had a nice walk to see the Principal, who was NOT happy to hear that one of his aides had given me the advice she did. Anyooo......long story short.........when a child acts/speaks in a manner not acceptable by Society when they grow up.......you swear at someone or spit in their face......you may end up either w/o a job or worse........dead depending on what local Bar you are at.........WHY is it ok for them to do this sort of thing in school?????? All we are doing is grooming a generation that KNOWS they can get away with whatever they want......as long as they sit for five minutes. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/26/2007 4:16:04 AM | Okay, I'm going to have to get back to some folks' posts, but I did want to share something I got in email from a groovy lady that wanted clarification.
So I was reading one of your posts and you said "This is only a valid point if the child only ever perceives physical punishment as a result of frustration, though. As an exercise of loving moral authority, it can be an effective method of discipline." I'm not disagreeing with you, necessarily, but I'm a little bit curious how a child could view an angry smack with a wooden spoon, or a smack across the face during an arguement as "loving" in any fashion. It's difficult for an adult to distinguish the difference in such a matter - ...Could you ellaborate for me on what you mean by this difference. I've always been taught that hitting your children, or spouse, or anyone else in other than self defense is absolutely inappropriate.
My response:
First off, once a child realises there can be painful consequences to disobedience, that particular lesson, being a physical one, lasts. I'll contend that every child learns this lesson, at least every child with caring parents who make the attempt to establish when something is "off-limits" because it's dangerous. The quintessential example being, "don't touch the stove/pot on the stove, because it's hot and you'll be burnt."
Lather, rinse, repeat as needed, dig?
Children also naturally learn from and learn to respect the wisdom of their elders, again barring those unfortunate cases where a parent or nominal "caregiver" is routinely neglectful and abusive. Couple the lessons, and a child will develop a natural respect for the authority of an adult.
The important point to note here, though, is that this doesn't automatically guarantee that a child's behaviour will mirror that respect. Children are, as I've said, barely-civilised, impulsive little people, honestly more full of curiosity and energy than understanding or self-control. Natural impulse to reach for something that catches one's attention, yes?
Punishment, however, negative reinforcement, is important. In the absence of immediate consequences for inappropriate actions, children do not see the link. What difference do "right" and "wrong" make to a child who does something, gets what he or she wants, and may or may not realise the consequences of at some later time? And, how does one explain to a child who would otherwise be perfectly satisfied with possession of something the pain inherent in its loss to the person from whom they took it? Hell, what's to make them care?
Parents (assumedly) love their children, and don't want them to develop to feel that "wrong" actions are okay, right? So, they have to teach that those actions (whatever specifics apply) are unacceptable, and carry with them consequences. Performed properly, with attention to detail such that the punishment "fits the crime", and a reminder that the parent loves the child, even while punishing the act, corporal punishment can be effective.
Education is paramount, but how can one educate someone who's not paying attention? "He does not teach, whose pupil will not learn."
No, there's nothing "loving" in a random angry smack with a wooden spoon or in slapping someone as a last resort in a losing argument. And, for that reason, one ought to realise that those aren't disciplinary actions. They are, rather, abuses born of fear of impotence.
A person in a position of authority needs to be aware of the distinctions and strive to accentuate loving discipline while avoiding abuse of their authority altogether. We realise that "we're all human" and make mistakes, so we understand that mistakes are prone to being made. But, knowing and applying the difference, especially with regard to physical punishment is something to always take into consideration in such a debate, as well as being, in my opinion, constantly monitored in one's relations with others. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/26/2007 5:19:31 AM | The words of this song sum it all up for me:
As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so ------- crazy you can't follow their rules
When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still ------- peasants as far as I can see
There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
From 'Working Class Hero' John Lennon | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/26/2007 6:13:19 PM |
ThorintheSkald: Sorry, but IMO, when a child does something wrong.....swears, spits in your face, etc.......the punishment should be done NOW
Sound advice if your child is a poodle but kids today should be able to make the connection between punishment and bad behaviour, even if the punishment happens a little while later.
ThorintheSkald:WHY is it ok for them to do this sort of thing in school?????? All we are doing is grooming a generation that KNOWS they can get away with whatever they want......as long as they sit for five minutes.
Its not okay for them to do this sort of thing in school. Is someone saying it is okay for kids to spit and swear? That is no more insightful than saying its not okay for people to commit rape and murder.
Its seems strange to me that you are putting down the 'sit for five minutes' punishment since you are the one who uses it.
Kids only get away with whatever they want if their parents allow them to. The real punishment should be left to the parents imho. Spanking is only one way to discipline your child. I personally consider what my daughter likes and dislikes when considering rewards and punishments - punishment could take many forms: taking away something they like, grounding them, time out, spanking, removing privileges, etc etc. Although the impression I get from your story is that you are less interested in disciplining kids than you are in alleviating your own frustrations by spanking them. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/26/2007 6:35:05 PM |
Once you are not allowed to spank your kids and they can not bow their head at school for fear of offending someone we started raising hodlums.
Giving any or all schools the right to spank kids is really a bad thing. For those who believe government is ineffective, giving public (government) schools the green-light to swat kids is opening up a can of worms. What if your school had a real a-hole principal? I'm for parents spanking kids -- don't let the schools themselves have the green light on physical punishment -- the slippery slope is right there. Regardless, though, the problem wasn't caused by kids not being spanked. Spanking didn't occur much during the "Golden Age" anyway, sorry.
Secondly, it HAS NEVER BEEN CHALLENGED, NOR WILL IT BE that a child can bow their heads at school, pray in school, etc. Yes, that's right -- Sean Hannity is a liar. I'm for the separation of church & state -- and nobody is against kids praying in school. Again, I will say it -- NOBODY IS AGAINST KIDS PRAYING IN SCHOOL.
Where does the argument come from? People who say that schools are banning kids to pray. That's where it's coming from. May sound the the Twilight Zone if what I'm saying is true, right?
The court battles are whether the SCHOOL ITSELF mandates or encourages prayer on all students. This means officially handing a microphone for a teacher, student, or any other person to lead students in praying.
Let the kids pray their own prayer, to themselves, on school grounds -- without the encouragement or containment of the school itself. Is that too much to ask? Do you really need the government to push praying and Christianity on all kids? You want a Christian version of Saudi Arabia? | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/26/2007 6:45:55 PM | Hey, guys. I kinda missed some, so I'm coming back in to see what folks are up to.
Sky, groovy call with the song, bro.
I honestly just don't get the issue with the whole police/violence thing, but a) it's technically irrelevant, and b) we're talking corporal punishment in support of discipline in education, rather than violence as a bad thing, right?
Sorry, but IMO, when a child does something wrong ...the punishment should be done NOW... I have to say I am in agreement with this, and that the argument is accurate, in that educators must have the freedom to punish children for the sake of discipline. The question, though, is as to what form that punishment may take. As I recall, there's a vast range of options available, and corporal punishment is merely one point in the spectrum.
However, he got a nice little time out... ...I went Drill Sergent on him, and told him to get down again, go sit on THAT bench, and not to move a muscle until I told him he could... Seems to me, you handled that well. And, as you say, while "Little Johnny" apparently hadn't before encountered strong discipline, he evidently did realise his error and the need for contrition. Part of the learning process, that, yes?
"That's little Jonny-so-and-so, and he does that all the time" as the playground aide infomred me. You see, for me, the issue is not one of the necessity of physical punishment (as evidenced by the effectiveness of a strong voice and proper exercise of authority), but rather, one of the permissiveness of lax or lacking discipline prior to the incident.
WHY is it ok for them to do this sort of thing in school? It's not, and addressing it at that point is what would hopefully prevent the occurence of the adult issues you mention.
All we are doing is grooming a generation that KNOWS they can get away with whatever they want......as long as they sit for five minutes. Implicitly, then, there's more to the story? Did "Little Johnny" not learn his lesson after all? Was there a reorientation toward harsher punishment than simply "blowing it off" as "just Little Johnny"? My point here is that, while there are probably more facts to the tale than those you've shared, the elements present tell us a good deal, themselves. The permissiveness of the "normal" order explains, to some extent, the reasoning in "Little Johnny's" mind that a given thing was, well, permitted. Application of disciplinary authority, though, apparently worked. Is it necessary, then, to argue for the addition of physical pain? | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 67 | |
| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/26/2007 6:55:04 PM | Church and State are to be kept seperate at all costs,
especially when my tax dollar is involved.
ALL kids in the USA should get the exact same education
regardless of where they are born and go to school.
The kids didn't ask to be born, and they shouldn't have to suffer
from a poor education because some major business went bankrupt
and the community has no tax base for education. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/27/2007 12:51:54 PM | Sorry, but IMO, when a child does something wrong.....swears, spits in your face, etc.......the punishment should be done NOW.......not waiting to see what mom or dad will do
And if my child did that in my prescence he would recieve his punishment asap, but when he isn't in my company, I expect to be told about it and deal with it accordingly. You have no right to discipline my child. What I think would be an effective way of doing things in school, is this:
Anytime a kid does something that is in the manner of physical abuse, excessive verbal abuse, spitting in someones face, etc, they should be sent to the principal office, call their parents and say "you MUST come get your child and remove him from the property immediately, or else the police will". I'm sure after having to leave work a few times, or having to pick their child up at the police station, the parents will decide to instill the fear of God into their children to not act like loonitics in school.
WHY is it ok for them to do this sort of thing in school??????
It's not ok for them to do it in school, and that's why schools need to adapt a different way to deal with things. But physically, no. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/28/2007 3:41:38 AM | | Bringing up good kids is more a matter of taking the time to lovingly explain things to them than it is punishing them for violations of your will as a teacher or parent. However, the few minutes that it takes to do this we don't seem able to provide mostly due to our lack of patience. And our lack of patience is the result of our lack of time. And our lack of time for our kids is the result of our need to spend time working to buy things or to pay for things already bought. Our children's psychological development becomes the sacrificial lamb to the New World Order. See? | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/28/2007 6:56:03 AM | Regardless of whether some of the founding fathers were Christian, they were, nearly to a man, opposed to the imposition of Christianity or any other religion in schools or through government.
So any argument about what the founding fathers thought or wanted is moot.
The idea that we are a Christian nation is totally false. The Constitution itself says no oaths or beliefs can be required for public office. Period.
Normal people would term the idea that the US is a Christian nation a "lie". | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/28/2007 1:49:05 PM | | If little Johnny won't mind mom and dad, why in the world is he gonna mind the teachers, spanking children does not increase violence, when I was a youngan if I got a whoopin at school, I got a worse one at home, that was all the incentive I needed to behave, and I'm NOT a criminal and I know my parents loved me. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 5/28/2007 2:23:04 PM |
Regardless of whether some of the founding fathers were Christian, they were, nearly to a man, opposed to the imposition of Christianity or any other religion in schools or through government.
So any argument about what the founding fathers thought or wanted is moot.
The idea that we are a Christian nation is totally false. The Constitution itself says no oaths or beliefs can be required for public office. Period.
Normal people would term the idea that the US is a Christian nation a "lie".
You are 100% correct.
Not only did the Founding Fathers write in the Establishment Clause specifically to prevent any one religion from being favoured over any other and explicitly prohibit unions of church and state in ANY way, the Treaty of Tripoli EXPLICITLY states that the United States of America is NOT a Christian Nation. Period. Article 11 of this treaty states:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
This was ratified on the US Senate floor in 1797 unanimously. There is no record anywhere of any public outcry, whoop or hollar. The words of the treaty were made public in newspapers in New York and Philadelphia. I don't think it needs to be made much more obvious than this.
The fundamentalists just want to drag everyone kicking and screaming back into the middle ages and establish a federal theocracy with Christianity as the only power. They are, in their own way, just as dangerous as the Taliban in Afghanistan, eroding at the civil and humanistic mores of society as a whole. Hopefully they will be outweighed by the voices of moderation within the faith. | |
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CM1027
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Joined: 4/16/2008
Msg: 73 | |
| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 11/3/2009 4:35:15 PM | The problem is there is no middle ground. I knew teachers that paddled kids at a school I went to once and it wasn't done because they were bad kids. The teachers were people that shouldn't have been around kids. They all enjoyed it, you can tell by the looks on their faces when they did it. Sometimes they were visibly erect.
After I left the school, one of them was arrested for molesting a student.
As for prayer in schools. Schools are a public venue and there is separation of church and state. We ignore that and we turn into a theocracy.
If we allow prayer in schools how many other religions would fight to get equal time for their religions while everyone prayed (or stood or knelt, etc). Doubt the religions maniacs would go for that. Kids wouldn't have anytime to learn.
Our schools are bad enough as it is, please leave religion out of them. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:06:17 PM | As one who was constantly paddled in school I can tell you it never did me any harm except for slight psychological damage and blurred vision.  | |
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