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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/17/2007 8:55:00 PM | do you honestly think he'll do all that with the right attitude?
A decent father teaches his boys more than which way to twist his unit to make a letter J in the snow/sand.
He also teaches his little girl that strength is not a phisycal atribute.
... which can u do more efficiantly, and if u find somthing u cant do for him , will u have the BALLS to ask one of your male friends 2 bail u out? | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/18/2007 8:59:46 AM | | Part of the problem is we as a society seem to no longer feel a child needs to parents. Yes there are many examples of single parent famiies and a family of parent and step parent raising children. If you asked the children though would they not prefer mom and dad be together and happy? Yes I know that is not always possible but we are now at the point where we are trying to break up a child's support network just becaise it is the modern thing to do. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/18/2007 1:47:13 PM | Johne102, please. No one is trying to break up the family structure of two parents just because it is in fashion. I don't even think I see anyone on here saying that they would prefer to do it alone -- unless the other parent is a risk to the children.
Single parenthood is a tough road, and not one most would choose. Myself, I would much have preferred to raise my boys with their father, but he chose to take off. And most of the other parents are in similar situations, it was not their choice.
If you have read my other posts on this ungodly long thread, you'd see that my personal view is that no, it is not ideal. But who lives in an ideal world these days? It's a hard enough job raising kids on your own, but then when (if this thread is any indication) the general mindset of society is that these people are foolish to think they can raise quality human beings on their own is doing the children and the parents that are living this a huge disservice. Negativity breeds negativity. You tell a child he'll amount to nothing, and he'll live up to it. Stereotyping and generalizing are doing nothing for our society but breeding continuity.
Try a little positive thinking and open mindedness. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/18/2007 7:32:30 PM | | I am open minded but when someone says a child does not need both mother and father I question that theory because it has been that way since the dawn of time. I know here are abusive situations and other times one parent wants nothing to do with the kids...but other than that in most cases a child needs and deserves both mother and father. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/18/2007 10:47:14 PM | | Wow...lots of comments on this one! This is my humble opinion and it's an opinion so don't crucify me here. I think there's a subtle difference between having a positive male influence in a child's life versus having the influence of a father in their lives (anad when I say this, I'm assuming that the father is a loving and supportive father). Either a male role model or a loving father, it's important. In my formulative years, I was fortunate to have a loving father as well as several grown men who were positive influences on my life. They were both important to me. As they eventually passed away, I cried tears and became emotional because they were such key individuals in my life. I can't even explain it, but there was a slight difference between my father and these other male role models though. Maybe it's a "blood is thicker than water" thing or just knowing that this person was my biological father...not sure....but I love(d) them all dearly. I can't imagine my life without them and thank God that I was blessed so richly. I try to carry that over to my own kids and be as loving and supportive to them as these other folks were to me. Does any of this make sense? It's late at night and I just woke up...LOL | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/19/2007 8:28:11 AM | i know what you mean my sons dad ( the one who has raised him since he was 18mths old) would see my son every other weekend and during the holidays. but the last yr or 2 has been hard, hes letting his wife tell him when he can see him . she doesnt like my son cause he looks like me and she hates me. my and my ex are still close. he use to call him alot, he even had a cell phone at one point so there was no excuse for not calling long distance since they dont have it on their home phone. hes wouped. i just dont understand how he can be a dad and then all of a sudden stop and at the worst time cause my son will be 13 in 2 mths. yes a mom can only tell him so much theres things a man needs to show him so he can grow up to be a confident and good man without being a sissy,or a wifebeater. i just dont know what to do. the last time i moved to where his dad lived just so he could spend more time with him and his dad caught 9 kinds of hell then she didnt want my son there except certain days. hes spending two weeks for christmas down there and going to try to have him spend the summer there too so maybe he can get some quality time with his dad but its all up to his wife which is bs. any advice? | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/19/2007 9:36:50 AM | | you are right kids do need to have a man in there lives ....... but that man does not need to be ..or behave as a farther .....i have 3 children and yes im a single mum with daddy no where to be found that the way he wants it, so do my kidas need there dad no! and they have plenty of men in there lives to give them all they need growing up they have there uncle and my friend around them and these guys are far better for them , | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/20/2007 4:24:38 PM | I have heard my own boys say it. So I guess one could conclude that boys who grow up without a father grow up not to be criminals.....but great dads!?!?
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Simma
Your boy will not ABANDON his wife. He with be THROWN into the gutter. By the police. At his wifes orders.
And this same wife will have the nerve to beech, for the next twenty years, that her husband, YOUR SON, has abandoned his children. Rest assured you will get NO acess to your grandchildren. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/20/2007 4:29:59 PM | and I didn't want to buy one. Gender specific toys and all that. Eventually I gave in and she was thrilled. With tears in her eyes she says,'Thankyou, thankyou. Now I'm just like daddy!"
I still don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/20/2007 4:42:55 PM | Johne102, please. No one is trying to break up the family structure of two parents just because it is in fashion. .
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Simmiah
I have some bad news for you. Try this for a savage collection. And most of these universty lectures were funded by your taxes.
1/
No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one." -- Interview with Simone de Beauvoir, "Sex, Society, and the Female Dilemma" Saturday Review, June 14, 1975, p.18
2/
[W]omen, like men, should not have to bear children.... The destruction of the biological family, never envisioned by Freud, will allow the emergence of new women and men, different from any people who have previously existed. ? Alison Jagger - Political Philosophies of Women's Liberation: Feminism and Philosophy (Totowa, NJ: Littlefield, Adams & Co. 1977)
3/
"In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them" Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman --
4/
"How will the family unit be destroyed? ... the demand alone will throw the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can begin establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight collectively. Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and become economically independent, either through a job or welfare." -- From Female Liberation by Roxanne Dunbar.
5/
"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together. ... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process. ... "Families have supported oppression by separating people into small, isolated units, unable to join together to fight for common interests. ... -- Functions of the Family, Linda Gordon, WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969
As I said at the start the LACK of positive role models is used as a scapegoat when the son of a NEGATIVE female role model ie A bad mother, clears out on a abusive mother and equally abusive siters and gets in trouble with the police. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/20/2007 6:00:07 PM |
Your boy will not ABANDON his wife. He with be THROWN into the gutter. By the police. At his wifes orders.
And this same wife will have the nerve to beech, for the next twenty years, that her husband, YOUR SON, has abandoned his children. Rest assured you will get NO acess to your grandchildren.
You do not know a thing about me or how I'm raising my boys nor can you predict the future. For you to say such horrible things does not make me mad, it makes me sad for you, that you have such a sorry state of mind that you would say something like this. Honestly I don't even know how to respond to such drivel. Perhaps if my kids were subjected to violence, they would have a higher than average chance of becoming wife beaters as you seem to think they most certainly will, but they have not been exposed to violence. Perhaps if you knew that I have not had a string of men in and out of their lives you would know that I have provided a stable loving environment for them to grow in. Perhaps if you knew that we talk about everything and that my boys come to me with a ton of things that are on their minds, you would know that an open loving place to call home would better safeguard them against crime, drugs, and violence, but I am not so sure if you even hear what I'm saying.
You don't know my boys, but I'll let you in on their personalities a little bit. They are thus far in their lives, well adjusted, well rounded kids who have giving hearts and do well in school. They have a lot of friends and are very popular. They play sports and music. One of them was considered by his (professional) art teacher to be a prodigy. They are civic minded, empathetic, outgoing individuals and I'm proud to say I have raised such wonderful creatures. I get compliments on them all the time. People tell me what great kids they are-- teachers, friends, my parents friends, pretty much everyone who knows them for 15 minutes or more. So for you to say that they are automatically going to grow up and abuse their wives makes me laugh, and honestly feel a little sorry for you that you are so cynical. I'm sure the neighborhood kids love you.
And the quotes you posted, come on already. They are from 1977, 1979, and 1969? The world did not think like that then, only a few select groups, and it certainly does not think like that now. Wake up.
I see from your profile that you have no children. Why then, do you have such an interest? You don't pay taxes in America where I live so you can't be concerned if we're on 'the dole' or not, which we are not. I'm wondering if it all stems from a hatred toward women as your other posts might suggest. I hope you have an enlightening year in 2008. Happy Holidays to you. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/21/2007 3:31:23 PM | I don't need to know a thing about you or your boys. And this has nothing to do with your lovely sons.
I'm taking about your future daughter in law. No matter how well, (or how badly for that matter) they treat her she will end up abusing them, then calling the police, and claiming she is the vicitm and having him thrown into the gutter.
You are assuming that only genuine wife beaters are thrown into the gutter. In fact it's usually the battered husbands that are thrown out of their own homes.
And you can foret my "sorry state of mind" . I'm just rattling off a few statistics that I've picked up over the years. 80% of all divorces instigated solely by the wife. 10% solely by the husband and 10% by mutual agreement.
Not drivel I'm afraid. Facts! You will fund a great deal more information, on these boards, under the postings of "abused men" (use the internal search engine).
The posts I posted were extremists but the world DID think like that in the 70s and well past the 70s inot the modern age.
As recently as three years ago, on a mainstream TV doumentary , on sex and relationships, a TV hostess was advising viewers to "treat your man like you treat your dog". It struck me immeaideately that if the words had been "treat ni66ers like you treat dogs" then the program would have been stopped on the spot, the hostess would have never worked again, and the national outcry would have closed down the station. There was NO coutcry, the Tv hostess is STILL working and the program was not closed down.
So yes Simmiah. We are still living in a sick society where it's assumed that it's normal to abuse men in general and boyfriends in paticular. Even men as lovely as your sons.
Once again check the posts on abused men. It's only in the past five years that ANY action has been taken against husband bashers and even now it's extremely rare.
One final question? Do you love your boys? Stupid question. Of course you do.
Right then. Teach them about battered husbands. Teach them to double/triple check up on their serious girlfriends to make sure those girls are not husband bashers.
The best way they do this is to casually mention, to the latest girlfriend, a genuine case of husband bashing that they have heard of.
If the girl has the wrong attitude she will make excuses, prretend that it wasn't really husband bashing, and say that the battered husband "asked for it". The same garbage that was put about over battered wives some forty years ago.
If she has the right attitude she will be just as disgusted by the husband bashing as whould be over any wife bashing. The only "excuse" she will make is that she will claim that husband bashing is rare. Not true! I'ts as common as wife bashing. But that's just ignorance. Not the wrong attiude.
My hatred is not towards women. It's towards double standards and hipocrites.
And the world reeks with them. Not just gender either . Everything.
You hear it in the lyrics of any black rapper hsding behind his skin colour. Whites, with the same lyringcs of women bashing would be thrown off the airwaves.
A husband, (paticularly your sons) will be charged when a wife, without a scratch on her, says she was bashed. Even when a batterd husband is hosptalised the wife is rarely charged.
Even a simple date. A woman, makeing MORE money than her date still grizzles if he doen'st pick up the tab. As ofr any mariage, or serious relationship, witha guy , who makes less than she does. Forget it.
Go back and really read my posts. It's hipocrites that I hate. Why did you assme that it was women? | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/21/2007 3:52:40 PM | I am open minded but when someone says a child does not need both mother and father I question that theory because it has been that way since the dawn of time.
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No way Jose.
== Dawn of time. Cave men.
Women died in childbirth and men often died out hunting, when the mammoth trampled them. Children were raised by the extended family of aunts and uncles.
== First villiages
Same childbirth deaths. Not as many dead fathers. Viliage still raised the kids.
First civilisations.
== Fewer childbirth deaths, Men off fighting wars and protecting the empire. The absentee fathers. That continued up to the end of WW2.
== Post war fifties
Morre children leaving the family and viliage to work in the cities. The corporation becomes more influential than the villiage.
First serious experiment with the neuclear family. Mum Dad and five kidsand NO grandparents or exteneded family.
=Post Eighties. First large number of single parent families where the extended family is more friends than blood realatives. More and more childcare being contraced out to counselers, playgorups, creche's, schools, and sports clubs. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/21/2007 6:01:13 PM | Simmah
A true story, from the abused men post. This is what's ging to happen to your sons, no matter how well they treat their girlfriends.
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OK, heres goes. When she drank, which was often.I would lock myself in the bedroom.i could of knocked her flat but i won,t do that. Twice she came at me with a knife and i had to disarm her and then keep on the move from room to room to just try and keep some distance. Once i was pouring her beer down a drain and a empty bottle sailed by my head and missed by a hair, putting a fair dent in the wall. The verbal abuse was evil and even when she was not drunk she would sometimes have a verbal go at me.Always with the note in the morning telling me it would not happen again and how sorry she was.i put up with this for 8 years, because i,m an idiot.When i think back on it these days i,m amazed that i,m still able to believe that love is out there for me. I was charged once a long time ago for assault on a girlfriend. She was a nut case who after i broke up with her she B&E,d my home while i was out of the country.When i confronted her about it and said i was goin to the cops she attacked me. i sat on her and pinned her arms till she calmed down. When i was at the cop station she called and said i assaulted her.This being a small northern town where i lived at the time. They immediatly took her side and charged me! When i went to court the charge was dropped because she had taken makeup and made herself look like she was all bruised and battered.The doc spotted it right off, but did they charge her? with making a false claim and the B&E, no. The local cop was too embarrassed. My ex knew this and would threaten me when she was drunk with charging me again. She would goad me on and on, wanting me to hit her. What a life, eh | |
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deni30
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Joined: 12/11/2007
Msg: 490 | |
| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/21/2007 10:02:39 PM | | Does a child benifit from two loving, supportive, constructive parents? Of course. Does a child NEED two parents? Obviously not. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/22/2007 8:31:34 AM | | I am sorry to hear your story, crayonz, but how does this relate to the topic? The original post asked if boys can grow up and flourish in life and society without having a traditional family home with a mother and a father. Don't use it as a soapbox for abused men, as you pointed out, there are plenty of other threads for that. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/22/2007 1:21:13 PM | Crayonz, without wishing to sound harsh or unsympathetic, there are two sides to every story and it takes two to tango.
My daughter is living proof that a 'well-rounded' child can be brought up without a father. Her dad never showed any interest in her and I have raised her with the help of my mum for all her life. She is incredibly intelligent, she is 6 and has a reading age of 8 and a half. She has won trophies in ballet and exudes self-confidence and peace of mind in everything she does. She can play a piece of music on the piano by ear after hearing it just once. I think it is very generalistic to assume children need both parents, I personally believe that it depends on the parent and child and the history surrounding the relationship both have with the absent parent.
I had the lucky position of growing up with both parents who were happily married and very loving towards me. Despite this, I went totally off the rails and had nummerous mental health problems.
Thanx for reading!  | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/22/2007 2:08:44 PM | Does a child benifit from two loving, supportive, constructive parents? Of course. Does a child NEED two parents? Obviously not
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Couldn't resist a little re editing Deni
Does a child benifit from a loving, supportive, constructive parent, social group, and society? Of course.
Does a child NEED two parents? Obviously not | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/22/2007 2:15:10 PM | Tonia
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I believe that children need both parents.
From the start I have said that the problem is NOT a lack of positive male role models but the presence of negative female role models.
I have also said that the problem is not gender specific. Negative male, or female, role models, are damaging. Children need love. If the love of only one parent is enough then it's enough. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/22/2007 3:26:36 PM | I am sorry to hear your story, crayonz, but how does this relate to the topic?
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How this relates to the topic is that boys, rasied by NEGATIVE female role models, is still considered the normal state of affairs in our society. | |
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Ls1
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Joined: 3/26/2007
Msg: 496 | |
| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/23/2007 12:10:49 AM | What a sad, sad thread
Some of the women on here that think a father is not necessary.
and can be replaced by
Male role models
Biological father.........that's what my ex told my young children after we split......that all I was was their biological father........among other things.
As they got older they became harder to control, turned to drugs and gangs and rebelled against their mother.
I picked up the pieces and finished raising them.
The biotch still wanted me to keep paying the child support though.......lol.
I turned their lives around and now they are fine adults that know how important it is to have a father.
For years after that they would not even speak to their mother.
How many of you women were so vindictive that you drove the father of your children away from them ??
And told them that he was'nt necessary.
I know some men are lousy fathers but I bet there are just as many times when the mother tried to drive a wedge between her ex husband and their children. | |
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deni30
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Joined: 12/11/2007
Msg: 497 | |
| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/23/2007 4:42:38 AM | | You assume a hell of a lot and it seems you only see what you want. You negative view tells a lot more about your pitifully cliched story than you obviously realize. Your situation was your own, please don't project it onto the rest of us as you have no idea. | |
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Ls1
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Joined: 3/26/2007
Msg: 498 | |
| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/23/2007 6:43:34 AM | I'm a single mum with a 3 year old son. I think it's important to have a male role model for children but it doesn't necessarily need to be the father.
You see......... I have a big problem with statements like this one at the beginning of this thread.
But don't get me wrong, I think mothers are just as important...... even more so when a child is very young.
And I have nothing but respect for single mothers that have to raise the kids on their own, especially when the children's father is a dead beat dad.
A charity I've chosen to support is one that helps single parent families that are having a tough time getting by.
And the vast majority of those are single mothers.
A pitifully cliche'd story...........deni30 ????
It's what often happens as seen from a father's perspective.
I know there's situations where the mother has no choice but to find someone else to try and fill the role of a father. I have no respect (if the father's still alive) for a guy that wants nothing to do with his kids even though the mother still wants him to be their dad.
There is no replacement for a good father.......period.
Good post \/ \/ \/ \/ .....snugglemunchkin, your children are lucky to have a mother like you. | |
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*~j~*
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Joined: 12/8/2007
Msg: 499 | |
| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/23/2007 6:54:05 AM | I have two teenage sons ,and a little girl .Ive brought them up myself for the last seven years.They are great boys ,well mannered,clever intelligent and nice boys you'd be proud to say you knew.Never been in trouble ,or caused me any strife.All my friends tell me what fabulous kids I have . They never see their father mainly due to the fact they or he didnt want to . I treat them with respect and tell them' I love them' and give them hugs all the time. I love my children very much and I think Ive done a good job .so far .One will be joining the royal airforce and the other going to university.
All you can do is oyur best and tell them you love them teach them right from wrong and thats all. | |
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Ls1
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Joined: 3/26/2007
Msg: 500 | |
| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:33:27 AM | That hardened attitude in my previous msg # 497 was only directed at the women it pertains to.
To the rest of the single moms out there.......I don't know how you do it, work, raise the kids and be a loving mother.
I know that's the kind of woman I want to be with.
and that's why I want to help a group that helps single parent families. | |
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