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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/11/2009 8:13:18 AM | | My son desperatly needs a male role model in his life. I ended up signing him up for a Big. We are just waiting to hear back from them as to who they assign him. I hope this helps him socially. What i'm saying in there are ways to get that male influence into a boys life, if the father won't step up. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/11/2009 6:00:28 PM | Children need BOTH parents equally. To say that either sex can do the job better solely based on what they are packin' between their legs is absolutely nuts.
That's a fact... | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/11/2009 9:34:43 PM | | Anyone notice that this is subject posted in the single parent forum. Let not state the obvious that everyone knows, but the fact is not all kids can have their parents equally. if only the world where so perfect. with butterflies and ponies. and the grass is made of cotton candy. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/12/2009 11:29:03 PM | | What happens if the father is dead, like in my son's scenario. His Uncles are just as good. Some fathers run off and assume no responsibility for the kids. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/13/2009 1:32:58 PM | There are studies that have shown that children are better off with one sound (stable, loving, normal, good) parent than they are living in a house where one of the parents are disfunctional. Living with a dysfunctional parent can really emotional harm a child. The studies also show that children being raised in single family homes from a young age are just fine, they adjust to their life and dont know the difference from their home and a home with two parents.
My two sons are being raised just fine. They may not have a man in their lifes that lives in the home, but they have male figures that they can look up to (football coaches, uncles, Grandpa, etc.) It may be hard for some to believe, but kids can be raised just fine without a man in their lives. And for those who think children need a males perspective on things, I disagree. They need education and to be taught things, but ultimately need to find themselves and build their personalites on the core foundation that even "just a woman" can provide.
Let me say though, there are some women who are not emotionally strong enough to handle both parental roles in the house. There are some women that dont take the time with their kids that they should and its sad.
Also, I will say that it's harder on the older teenage children when a divorce happens. They know what it's like to have both parents in one house and the emotions are much harder to deal with, IMO. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/13/2009 4:32:46 PM | | Yes, boys do need to spend time with their dads no doubt...as long as he is not being a bad influence....if that's the case then they are better off bein around the mom and any men role models she can provide...like grandparents , uncles, male friends (that are good influence) etc... | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/13/2009 5:21:05 PM | o i c
"boys" need a dad? why not girls?
This one gets me boilin. My x very much like to stay in control of everything and everybody and everything must be "his way" then he tries turning it all around and saying "Its for the kids" RIGHT!!! No it isnt for our children , its for his own FRICKIN SELFISHNESS.
Unless a daddy truly wants to be a daddy for the RIGHT reasons , and not for a "get even " role to punish his x, then its pretty hurtful and damaging to the kids.
on the chill and open end, if a daddy WANTS to be a daddy and not only takes them to do the fun stuff but he must also be in on the daily support, drs visits and bills, school activities and BILLS they bring, school lunches, MEDICAL (yes BILLS) a daddy cant shirk ONE DUTY (like helping SUPPORT those kids he helped bring so willingly INTO the world, ) and yet try to CONTROL all other aspects of their life , including their activities, etc. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/13/2009 7:25:24 PM | Amen wannacstarz to ----> " not only takes them to do the fun stuff but he must also be in on the daily support, drs visits and bills, school activities and BILLS they bring, school lunches, MEDICAL (yes BILLS) a daddy cant shirk ONE DUTY"
I totally agree.... | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/13/2009 8:48:31 PM | Well I'm a father, I pay for anything needed for my little girl. I take her to the playgroups, the pool, the Doctors. I read her books, I play with her, I cook all her meals and make sure that her diet does not contain the junk thats out there. When she goes to school I will be paying those bills too..
She is with me for a minimum of 4 nights a week lately its been 5-6 days a week.
I change her nappies, bath her and give her a stable routine. I teach her and also let her learn some things for herself.
She goes where ever I go and is very sociable. If I go out to dinner with friends I don't drop her at her mums or her grandparents (her mother does) I take her with me. She is a part of my life and I enjoy her doing the things I do..
So there are fathers out there that do, do the right thing by their children and provide a safe and secure home for them to grow and become the best they can. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/16/2009 4:46:34 PM | my boys have a dad who they see but he is useless and a waste of space.he lets them do anything they want to and he doesnt even make them eat a proper meal.
my boys are good really and don't really answer back or argue but i thank myself for that.I taught them manners and hoe to behave,not him. | |
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boorye
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Joined: 9/21/2005
Msg: 587 | |
| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 2/16/2009 6:23:15 PM | | I am a father. And It hurts so much that i am hear for my son. More then most fathers. Why do women make it had for dads to be dads. We are not perfect. But give us a chance to be dads | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/17/2009 5:12:49 PM | Okay, so it seems this thread is going really huge. Everybody seems to have an opinion as to how a "male role model" is supposed to be needed for a kid. Not that I don't agree that a kid is better off with two well balanced, nurturing and loving parents - regardless of their gender - rather than one.
But I am curious.
Let's stay away from the classic gender stereotypes such as "A man has to show a boy how to be a man". Let's get concrete and specific here. Let's hear it. Can someone tell me exactly, concretely, what a father is supposed to show a boy exactly, that a mother cannot show him? | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/17/2009 11:38:39 PM | | What do you do when father is dead? His uncles are taking Dad's spot in helping raise the youngest. Hey--not jumping my bones, though! | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/18/2009 7:54:51 PM | Sorry if somebody else has posted this already.... But immediately these questions came to mind...
1. What fundamental things is my clild missing out on because I don't have a member of the opposite sex in my life?
2. Are you separated from your children against your will? | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/19/2009 5:35:20 PM | | I have to agree. All kids need positive male and female role models. My son's father passed away a couple years ago and I have made a few tough choices to keep important men in his life. Including moving closer to my ex's parents so his grandfather can be a part of his daily life (and be exposed to a marital relationship). He loves sports and plays everything I can sign him up for so he has his fair share of coach role models and we're pretty close to the neighbors and he really looks up to their dad. But one that tends to make some people squirm due to it's lack of traditionalism is keeping him in a day care that employs male teachers. His biggest role models have come from the boys who work at his day care, boys that are more like older brothers than father figures, but male role models none the less. Boys he really looks up to and can relate to and talk to about boy stuff. And I have to admire a teenage or young adult male who is willing to work with kids after school or all day. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/19/2009 8:29:27 PM |
All kids need positive male and female role models.
Could you elaborate on what exactly a boy would learn from a "female role model" and what from a "male role model" exactly? I know this may seems like conventional wisdom here, but I'd be very curious if someone could outline for me what exactly a "male role model" is supposed to provide, other than "boy stuff", concretely?
Someone? Anyone? | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/19/2009 9:16:11 PM | You obviously don't "need" a father or a mother in your lives or all orfans would magically die/disappear from the planet.
So people saying they didnt have a father around and felt they got a decent upbringing etc are muddying the issue.
It is unquestionably on balance better for children to grow up knowing/living with their father and mother - yes they can be substituted for others but whether that substitution is "better" depends on the individual circumstances.
The fact that children can grow up without a father in no way makes the issue of whether or not fathers are best weaker but many people choose to use it to weaken fathers positions/role in their childrens lives. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/19/2009 9:26:22 PM | Id add it is a cancer on our society if we have increasing numbers of people thinking that children are possessions and owned /brought up BEST in single parent families - It isnt.
That fact is in now way shape or form a critisim of people that are single parents but unfortunately a sub section of society think it is and treat single parents badly per se. Every single parent situation is different and every child is different.
Parents of both sexes use some pretty distorted arguements and logic to defend their positions and actions and the legal system in this regard is a mess in most countries which does very litle to help children and the future of our society. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/20/2009 1:18:32 AM | Can you raise a kid without a father? Yes, you can.
But quoting Chris Rock:
"You can drive with your feet, that don't make it a good f**king idea". | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/21/2009 7:55:36 AM | G'day Conscioussoul,
I think there are many things that a female can gain from female influence and boy from a male influence..
I don't think that your question is as easy to answer as one may think. I would say that there is many things that are difficult to explain when it comes to "what we get from a role model of the same sex".
One thing that comes to mind is "understanding".
That is: I am sure that there are many guys out there that would agree that, woman do not always understand what they are talking about. Just as there would be many woman out there that would agree that men don't understand what they are talking about.
Its because, whether people like to accept it or not, woman and men think different. As much as we are alike as humans, we are certainly very different also.
If a boy has an older male that he can consult with, he can feel as though he is understood when talking about things that only a man would understand. (same with girls and older females). He can feel more at ease when talking about certain things to do with a mans body or thoughts.
I am sure there are plenty of boys out there that smile and say; "thanks mum, you really helped", when really, they were simply being respectful to their mothers but, walk away with their query unanswered or incomplete.
I guess its like, why do men like to go fishing with their male friends?
Why do woman like doing some things with their female friends?
Because they connect on a different level when doing activities or having conversations with the same gender.
There are always things that a guy will talk to his male mates about that he would never talk to his female friends about and visa-versa.
This is why having a safe, reliable, sensible role model of the same sex is important in a childs life.. Especially when in their teenage years when they begin to question their identity and begin having more in depth cognitive thoughts.
If you don't have a father or a mother that is available, then, a trusted friend or relative is the next best thing.
Its naive to believe that your child does not need the input of their same gender as some people appear to believe on this site.. Not only is it naive but, its also sad that some people deprive their children of this "same gender input" all because of their "pig-headedness" and pride...
Its perfectly ok to admit that you can not give your child everything they need..
How would we have ever evolved if everyone just grew up with "one idea" about life..
Another thing.. When my father died, my mum could not teach me how to fix cars, make things out of wood or steel, and many other things.. Its not her fault, she just had no idea about that stuff.. However, my grandfather played a huge role in my life when my father died as did my uncles. They taught me many things that my mother would never have been able to teach me.. My mum never felt any less of a parent because of this, she was more than happy for me to have a healthy male influence from my uncles, grandfathers and other trusted male friends of the family. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/21/2009 9:03:53 AM | | Sorry but I have to reply to this one. With what you say you truly belive that is how we should be doing things? what about the chance of a real family? I know for myself it is worth the chance I take to provide a good nurturing family for my son! All we need to do is start bringing back the good family morrels and that needs to be taught at home!if we cant get back to that i think we might aswell give up dont you? | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/21/2009 3:51:55 PM | Hello rustic, always a pleasure to read you. :-)
No, indeed, it's not an easy question to answer... there is a whole PhD in sociology based on gender studies, it's definitely a very delicate question, which ties in both to philosophy, ethics and biology. But I have seen many different posts on this topic, and from what I read, people seem to understand the question quite differently.
It seems to me that some people understood the thread topic as a discussion to whether or not a kid needs two parents rather than one, while some other people seem to understand the topic as whether a "male role model" is needed for a kid. (These then divide into those who believe that role model has to be the dad, and those who believe that it could be any other male who connects and creates attachment with a child).
For me there is no question that a kid will do better in a family with two parents - or even more than two adults, if that would be possible, for instance when elders are also present.
My questions are more specifically about the difference between "male" and "female" role model and the "need" for each, as opposed, say, to two parents regardless of their gender.
A "role model", to me, is just that: a model a kid has to follow in order to develop better. Definitely, there is no question for me that having a responsible adult as a compass point for a kid, someone that has ethical values and can guide the child, is one of the major asset for success. And certainly, there is no question either for me, that having two responsible adults will allow a child to learn how each human being is different, and brings more security and love, and a second, aligned compass point to guide him through life. To lesser degree, the more caring responsible adults the better for a kid.
However, a "male role model" or a "female role model" introduces the concept that a girl has to follow a "female role model" and a boy, a "male role model". In other term, that the kid would have to follow that in order to develop normally. That is where my questions comes into play: what do we get from a role model of the same sex, exactly? Or, to put it very blatantly, what can't we get from a role model of the other sex, if anything?
One thing that comes to mind is "understanding". That is: I am sure that there are many guys out there that would agree that, woman do not always understand what they are talking about. Just as there would be many woman out there that would agree that men don't understand what they are talking about.
Are you saying that we cannot find some men who cannot understand other men, and we cannot find either some women who cannot understand other women?
It seems to me that understanding someone is defined by their empathy, experience, beliefs, values, context... and so many other variables. So, I am left out with the curiosity to ask: what specific things could only be understood by a man? or by a female?
Would gay males be able to understand a girl then, according to you? Or would lesbians be able to understand a boy? Or it it strictly related to the kind of plumbing we have between the legs?
Its because, whether people like to accept it or not, woman and men think different. As much as we are alike as humans, we are certainly very different also.
I think this raises two separate questions that are both worth asking.
1) Is it truly innate, genetics, biology... or is it rather a socially learned difference?
and this brings me to 2) if it is a molding imposed by society, wouldn't kids be a lot more free to be who they are without the pressure of what they ought to be according to their respective plumbing and according to the society?
If a boy has an older male that he can consult with, he can feel as though he is understood when talking about things that only a man would understand. (same with girls and older females). He can feel more at ease when talking about certain things to do with a mans body or thoughts.
I think I can see where you are going... perhaps indeed, if a kids reaches the age where he would wish to talk about his sexuality, would he feel better speaking with someone sharing his sexual orientation. That would most of the time be the same-sex parent, but not necessarily, since the parent OR the child could be gay? What do you think? In this case, the understanding would come from sharing the sexual orientation, not from whatever social rules are imposed on a child by conformity? Food for thoughts.
I am sure there are plenty of boys out there that smile and say; "thanks mum, you really helped", when really, they were simply being respectful to their mothers but, walk away with their query unanswered or incomplete.
LOL true, indeed! I am quite sure however, that there are also quite a LOT of boys who smile and say "thanks dad, you really helped" when really, they felt their parent simply couldn't understand their teen life anyway. I have the feeling that if there is little understanding between parent and child, very often, it's more because of parent's inability to talk openly about sexuality with their teen than because of their gender.
I guess its like, why do men like to go fishing with their male friends?
Why do woman like doing some things with their female friends?
What about all these things I love to do, which falls into what "women" would usually love to do - or about all these girls out there who love to play soccer or baseball or to go fishing?
There are always things that a guy will talk to his male mates about that he would never talk to his female friends about and visa-versa.
This is very true. I feel that it is not related to the same question however, because this would be about peers, rather than parents. Peers are subject to a lot of peer pressure and social pressure to conform, where as parents are mature and should be able to guide their kid regardless of gender? What do you think?
This is why having a safe, reliable, sensible role model of the same sex is important in a childs life.. Especially when in their teenage years when they begin to question their identity and begin having more in depth cognitive thoughts.
When they begin to question their identity... now I am really not sure what you meant by this. Are you saying, when they begin to question their sexual orientation? Could you elaborate on this particular point?
its also sad that some people deprive their children of this "same gender input" all because of their "pig-headedness" and pride... Its perfectly ok to admit that you can not give your child everything they need.. How would we have ever evolved if everyone just grew up with "one idea" about life..
I couldn't agree more on the need to show a child as much diversity as possible - not only from two different gender, but as many many different human beings each unique and different. And it's very sad when the pride and "pig-headedness" cause some adults to try to limit their child from seeing the other spouse (unless in case of abuse) - regardless of the other spouse's gender. No parent can provide a child with absolutely everything they need. Yet two parents can't either. It seems to me that there is no perfection there, even when you match a female and a male.
When my father died, my mum could not teach me how to fix cars, make things out of wood or steel, and many other things.. Its not her fault, she just had no idea about that stuff.. However, my grandfather played a huge role in my life when my father died as did my uncles. They taught me many things that my mother would never have been able to teach me..
Women, especially from the older generations, were raised on such a restrictive molding by the society that they would only learn some very specific, home-related skills, while men would learn different set of skills. This is less and less true in our modern society and I know a lot of women who are just as good if not better than most at fixing cars, or making things out of steel, or fishing, or hunting. I think it is great when the adults around a kid can teach him all these skills. It seems to me that it doesn't matter from whose gender's it comes from, so long as it is taught, isn't it? | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/21/2009 8:36:52 PM | | My son does not have his father in his life and why? well ask yourself this question, is it healthy for him to have an alcoholic and abusive father in his life or no father in his life? he has plenty of male role models in his life and he certainly and absolutely does not need a mental case of a 'father' disrupting his life so does a child need a father in their lives ? no they absolutely do not in many cases having no father is a hell of a lot better then having one who is a possible Sociopath. | |
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| Boys need fathers...Period
Posted: 4/21/2009 10:50:28 PM | Conscioussoul,
I am talking in general, the "mean" of society not the outliers that do not reflect the norm. As with everything in life, there is the majority and the minority.
Are you saying that we cannot find some men who cannot understand other men, and we cannot find either some women who cannot understand other women?
This is exactly what I meant by my above comments, these people are outliers, people that deviate from the norm in society. I absolutely agree that there are some men who cannot understand other men and visa-versa. However, in general, when it comes to some subjects or personal concerns, we tend to prefer the same gender to discuss these issues.
As for gay men or woman, I have no idea about that. I do not know whether a gay mans brain is wired differently from a straight man besides the obvious (sexual preference). But I would say it would depend on whether you are talking about the gay man who is relatively the same as a straight man except the partner preference or the gay man who appears very feminine and the same with gay woman.
But I will say that I have some gay friends and one of my female gay friends is in care of her nephew. Now there are some days that I can see that she has no idea where her nephew is coming from because she is female and he is male. She tries her hardest and does a good job but, she still makes sure that he has a male influence. She has many straight coupled friends that their husbands take the time to have input into his life.
I do know that he does have some trouble with peers at work because his aunty is gay. They will call him gay just because his aunty is and make rude remarks about his aunty etc.
1) Is it truly innate, genetics, biology... or is it rather a socially learned difference?
and this brings me to 2) if it is a molding imposed by society, wouldn't kids be a lot more free to be who they are without the pressure of what they ought to be according to their respective plumbing and according to the society?
Q1. I believe that it is mostly biological. There are many psychological studies that prove that there are differences in the way that females and males think, analyse, problem solve etc. (population mean, not the outliers [extremes]). Yes there would be certain social aspects, but, in general its biological when talking about thought processes, primal urges etc.
Q2. I don't think plumbing has anything to do with it or a very minimal part to play. Yes the chemicals produced would cause differences (testosterone etc.). Its more so how a male brain figures the world out compared to a female brain.
That would most of the time be the same-sex parent, but not necessarily, since the parent OR the child could be gay? What do you think? In this case, the understanding would come from sharing the sexual orientation, not from whatever social rules are imposed on a child by conformity? Food for thoughts.
Hmmm, I really can not speak for a gay person as I am not gay. You would have to ask a gay person what they think, who they feel they connect better with when talking about personal issues (mum or dad, male or female).
I see it as, there are some things that I would prefer to talk with my mum about and there are other things I would prefer to talk with my stepfather or some other male. This is why its important to have the "balance" of male and female input.
Also, when I said that there are some things only a man would understand, I was not necessarily talking about sexual issues. There are many times I get frustrated talking with my mother because she simply can not understand where I'm coming from. I turn to my stepfather and say "do you know what I mean?" he laughs and says yeah, I got what you were saying from the start.. This is what I mean.. He's a man and could understand it because what I was talking about was from a male perspective, mum could not understand it because her brain is wired differently because she is female.
People just tend to get attitude when someone says to them, "you don't understand because your a woman or because your a man". I guess its kinda like translating things between languages, things get lost in the interpretation. Some languages explain things beautifully and others are more restricted.
Anyway.. I need to finish up as I have work to do..
In summary,
Children need input from both genders, where possible, having two parents is best. When this is not possible then a trusted friend of the family is the next best thing or a coach, school teacher etc.
I like hunting, but, many woman do not and are not interested in hunting. therefore, I talk to other males when talking about hunting. So for a young boy, his father or male role model is what he needs when talking about hunting, or fishing etc.. Yes mum might like fishing but, little boys want to brag to dad or question dad about fishing. (talking in general, not the outliers).
You pointed out that many mothers used to do traditional roles around the house.. Although this is true, my mum has always done a bit of everything. She helped renovate, she worked once we went school etc.. But, she is still mum to me and not a substitute for dad. She is great to talk to when more emotional concerns are needed but hopeless when its about more male orientated attitudes, activities, behaviours etc..
Its very hard to pin point exactly what it is that we get from our fathers or mothers but both provide an essential input into our lives.. Mothers are usually more nurturing which is something that we all need at times..If I want advice on building something etc then I go to dad or another male if I want emotional support or advice on some other things in life I go to mum.. Its just the way it is..
Time to go....... | |
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