| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 4:56:10 PM | what would it take for me to cut somebody off??
well, obviously they drank too much. they could be stumbling, being aggressive, being disrespectful is enough to cut somebody off around here. Many things can cause somebody to be cut off. Basically just the obvious. Too much to drink. causing sh*t, so many things | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 7:02:03 PM | I probably would've done the same--my job be damned; it's waitressing, the job could easily be replaced.
Here in Canada, or in my province at least, campaigns during pregnancy state that it isn't entirely known how much alcohol consumption can affect a baby, so NO ALCOHOL is recommended!!
And Fetal Alcohol Syndrome isn't the only concern, there's Fetal Alcohol Effects which doesn't have the physical characteristics of FAS but plenty of the cognitive ones!! And much trickier to detect, so your couple of****ails in the first trimester that you thought were okay mightn't show up until your child is school aged and having difficulty learning or with behavioural problems and so forth... the list of FAE is long!
And who's to say that once upon a time when alcohol consumption was the norm, there weren't people walking around with FAS/FAE? Think of all those people who were just considered "not right in the head" or a bit "loony" or whatever (not PC terms, but way back when, such terms were used) but might have actually been affected by alcohol exposure in the womb?
I used to live in a small community where alcoholism/drugs are rampant and seeing these preggo chicks in the lounge or openly drinking at community dances and/or house parties was a regular occurrence; I can only guess at how many of the "adults" in that community suffer from FAE because the cycle of substance abuse goes waaay back  and among the younger generation, there are a lot of behavioural and cognitive problems because of such abuse! It's sad... | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 7:06:39 PM | | If you don't serve her she'll just go somewhere else and drink. It sucks but if shes going to drink pregnant, shes going to do it. I don't think pregnant mothers should drink or smoke, but it isn't anyone elses decision to make. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 7:08:58 PM | | my ex Aunt in law drank through all her -pregnancies and it grossed me out. She would play cards and drink and smoke like one of the boys. And to think I was looked at like I was an alien because when offered a beer when I was pregnant and saying no.... | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 7:28:15 PM | Don't give up your morals for a paycheck. Respect the unborn as well as the born.
I'm not a doctor, scientist, or waitress. I probably would have given very ssssllllooowww service to that table that evening and watched for the 1st oppurtunity to cut the table off. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 7:37:17 PM |
Thank god it is illegal to serve alkie moms around here.
You live in Peterborough, Ontario - it is not illegal to serve a pregnant woman alcohol unless the same conditions are evident for a non-pregnant person.
And she has the choice to have aguy on the hook for a child sufferring from fetal alcohol syndrome
Quite a leap from ordering a drink in a bar and fetal acohol syndrome.
Mothers of fetal alcohol children should be if not forcibly sterilized atleast charged with criminal neglect
Then, once again, men and the government would be controlling women's reproductive rights. I don't agree with pregnant women drinking to drunkeness and causing FAS, but I certainly don't want some guy behind a desk tellihng me I can't enjoy a glass of wine in my home on my 38th week nor having a sip of champage to celebrate a moemtous occasion. Who draws the line? It IS my body, MY choice. But even some choices have consequences, and a mother who has a child with proven FAS shoulod be held accountable for hers.
Not only is she drinking, she's probably also in a smokey environment
I believe bars are non-smoking in Alberta as they are in Ontario, but I could be wrong. So in this view this mother to be also needs to avoid being in ANY place where there could be second hand smoke, such as the street.
I was happy to have a beer after my babies were born
So in this view consuming alcohol which enters the mothers breastmilk directly is OK, but consuming a drink whle the baby is in utero and the alcohol in one drink has a chance to be processed before entering the unbillico cord to nourish such baby is not.
I know I choose not to give a pregnant woman alcohol
You had better be 100% certain the woman is in fact pregnant and not just plus sized. If you choose to lose your job by violating someone's civil liberties, I can only imagine what others laws you flaunt because you don't like them or go against your personal moral code. With 3 kids, being only 23 and having listed occupation as "bartender" I would rethink your position on losing said job.
if I was pregnant I wouldn't be out in the bars drinking
So pregnant women are not allowed to socialize? When I was pregnant I was in a few bars during the course of 9 months - one my my good friends had a big birthday at one, when my friend took me to see Great Big Sea at a free concert event in Hamilton (they said the jumping up and down would induce labour LOL) we went to a bar after, when I was over 9 months I think I spent an entire week with friends on the patio by the water where it was cool (it was a huge heatwave - I was dying!). Did I drink? I had one or two through the course of my pregnancy. Because there is nothing wrong with one or two. What IS wrong is having some waitress refuse to serve you because SHE thinks so.
And she has the choice to have aguy on the hook for a child sufferring from fetal alcohol syndrome
Quite a leap from ordering a drink in a bar and fetal acohol syndrome.
Not only is she drinking, she's probably also in a smokey environment
I believe bars are non-smoking in Alberta as they are in Ontario, but I could be wrong. So in this view this mother to be also needs to avoid being in ANY place where there could be second hand smoke, such as the street.
I was happy to have a beer after my babies were born
So in this view consuming alcohol which enters the mothers breastmilk directly is OK, but consuming a drink whle the baby is in utero and the alcohol in one drink has a chance to be processed before entering the unbilleco cord to nourish such baby is not.
I know I choose not to give a pregnant woman alcohol
You had better be 100% certain the woman is in fact pregnant and not just plus sized. If you choose to lose your job by violating someone's civil liberties, I can only imagine what others laws you flaunt because you don't like them or go against your personal moral code. With 3 kids, being only 23 and having listed occupation as "bartender" I would rethink your position on losing said job.
if I was pregnant I wouldn't be out in the bars drinking
So pregnant women are not allowed to socialize? When I was pregnant I was in a few bars during the course of 9 months - one my my good friends had a big birthday at one, when my freiend took me to see Great Big Sea at a free concert event in Hamilton (they said the jumping up and down would induce labour LOL) we went to a bar after, when I was over 9 months I think I spent an entire week with friends on the patio by the water where it was cool (it was a huge heatwave - I was dying!). Did I drink? I had one or two through the course of my pregnancy. Because there is noting wrong with one or two. What IS wrong is having some waitress refuse to serve you because SHE thinks so. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 8:04:10 PM | I think if a waitress serves a pregnant woman, she should certainly monitor her just like it is her responsibility to monitor EVERY customer, and cut her off if she feels she has had too much.
If the waitress has a problem with it morally or ethically, she should ask another waitress to trade off that table for a while, rather than lose her job.
I personally see nothing wrong with an occasional drink during pregnancy, but totally respect the ideas of those who do.
It is not a waitresses decision ( nor religious fanatatics) to pass moral judgement on anyone else.
I can only imagine what others laws you flaunt because you don't like them or go against your personal moral code. With 3 kids, being only 23 and having listed occupation as "bartender" I would rethink your position on losing said job
lyrical....you have such a harsh, and arrogant way of speaking. You always state plain and clear.."I am entitled to my opinion"...and indeed you are. You should however simply state what your opinion is, and leave the name calling for the third graders. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 8:05:43 PM | alcohol does not enter the breastmilk directly. and also, you can pump and discard a few times if need be. this is not something I know from experience though.
I did not breastfeed, so it wasn't an issue for me.
And when did this become a personal attack on me? I was simply asking opinions on this matter, and frankly what you think of my situation and occupation has nothing to do with this. I didn't come here for a lecture, or advice. just thoughts on this particular matter.
You can keep on imagining what other laws I " flaunt".
Nobody says a pregnant woman can't socialize. And yeah, nobody said she couldn't drink either. Its just a shame when people like yourself are naive enough to believe it does no harm.
Yes ONE drink can cause harm. Believe what you like, but as little as one little drink can be harmful.
( yes parts of alberta are smoke free, not everywhere though)
all I can say is that it is selfish to drink while pregnant, and people should really look into the facts about it.
How would somebody explain this to their child who was suffering? " well, son, you have all these problems because I wanted a drink" " sorry about your luck hun" "its my body, my life" | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 8:36:25 PM | ^^^ One drink has never been proven to harm a fetus.
It's not a personal "attack'. You posted, I am responding. I think your occupations has a lot to do with it as you are a bartender. Because of your age (23) and the fact you haev 3 kids and you cannot BE a bartender unless you are at least 18, you obviously worked in a bar at some point while while pregnant.
I am 35 and far from "naieve" honey. I know exactly what I am talking about. With 3 kids pretty close together, I would have to ask why you did NOT breastfeed? Was it because you were drinking?
I'll ask my colleague's wife, who is an obstetrician, about your "pump and discard" theory tomorrow.
I'll say it again - a drink will not hurt anything. 10 drinks is a different story. Getting smashed every Saturday most definately.
Most studies available freely admit they don;lt know ho wmuch alcoshol a mother must drink for negative effects to be felt on the developing baby. Most if not all studies of FAS look frequent drinking (seven or more drinks per week, including mixed drinks, wine, and beer) or binge drinking (five or more drinks on any one occasion) .
I spent a cursory anount of time reading artcles and could not fine ONE that indicated one drink caused irreperable harm or even remote harm to an unborn baby.
THE MARCH OF DIMES REPORT: FAS occurs in up to 40 percent of the babies born to women who are alcoholics or chronic alcohol abusers. These women either drink excessively throughout pregnancy or have repeated episodes of binge drinking (defined as having five or more drinks on one occasion)."
No mention of one drink.
You may think I am advocating drinking throughout a pregnancy but I am not. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 8:46:48 PM | "Then, once again, men and the government would be controlling women's reproductive rights."
Aren't there any women in the legislature up there? Doesn't their opinion count?
This thread was started by a woman whose interest was for herself, and the unborn caught in her personal moral dilemma.
Women were chosen by God/nature to foster life into this world. They have that unique responsibility. There are countless laws dictating how folks are to handle their responsibilities. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 8:56:32 PM | yes I worked in a bar while pregnant. damn good money, and hours that nicely accomodated my life, as I could spend all day with my child(ren), and work while they slept.
No, It wasn't because I wanted to drink that I chose not to breastfeed, I just could never do it comfortably past the first month or so. And I am fairly busy with running around and things, that bottles were much more convenient for me.
This pump and discard thing, is just a thought. nothing more. Like I said, I never did it. I am just thinking it might make sense. I dont know. I am not a doctor :)
And just to clear the air about my own drinking- really I dont get out much, so I might drink lets say once a month. Never drink at home.
So, if there is no way to know exactly how much alcohol it would take to cause harm, why roll the dice? If you don't know if it is one drink, or ten drinks, why take such a huge chance? And why is it so wrong to be against it? | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 9:01:39 PM |
And why is it so wrong to be against it?
What my non-PC colleague so eloquently puts her thoughts together meant was;
You can have whatever opinion you want, however when you seek to impose your personal will on another individual without aid of societal constructs (i.e. laws) you are impeding their rights and as such deserve the retribution that accompanies it (e.g. having your boss fire you).
It is fine to have a moral ground, just be aware in order to have it you should be willing to sacrifice for it. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 9:24:41 PM |
You live in Peterborough, Ontario - it is not illegal to serve a pregnant woman alcohol unless the same conditions are evident for a non-pregnant person.
Then the LCBO has an illegal policy because they will not serve pregnant women here. And I am pretty sure I made a clear distinction between between the occasional drink and binging.
As for "reproductive right" unless you are willing to accept that the father has reproductive rights aswell and, that any woman choosing to bring to term a child has a responsibility to the welfare of that child. Then you are undeserving of those rights. Bringing a fetal alcohol syndrome infant to term is morally no different than waitting untill after birth then feeding the child herion. But should be indictable offences.
Then there is the burden to society. There is a reason incest is illegal, and it matches the reason behind criminalizing this. It is the voluntary creation of a societal burden, and a selfish desire to create a person but not be responsible for ensuring that all matters within your control to give that new person a fair and decent start in life. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 9:26:07 PM | | i think its wrong but it really is the mothers choice i guess.. i mean well i was preg before i found out i was i had gotten trashed at an xmas party the day i was supposed to get my period i was soo god damn scared something would be wrong with my daughter.. never drank again till she was a yr old and off the boob lol..but if u check ur facts u shouldnt drink at all preg or breast feeding unless u pump milk a good site for this is run by toronto hospital for sick kids its call mothers risk i know they have the most up to date info on prescription and drugs so i mean i used that alot luckey i did one dr didnt realize i was preg at 7 months i didnt say hey im preg i mean the belly hung out 6 feet how he didnt know beats my mind but i called in everything before i took it | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 10:20:32 PM | My opinion the term "reproductive rights" ought to be wether to concieve or not, and restricting govt. from getting involved in that.
Once conception is a fact, govt ought to protect the life of that person. Even if it has to protect that person from their mother.
The "burden to society" as a measurement for wether a child should be born,, dangerous grounds, slippery slope,,ect ect.
Anyway, This is hot button for me, duh, I just came here looking for hot
chicks
 | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/24/2007 11:54:28 PM | I am rasing a child with FAS and let me tell you some days you do not even want to be alive. Though I did not give birth to him I suffer with him. Some days are pure hell for him and me as well. Here's what you people that agree with drinking while you are pregnant being a choice need to think about. This person that is choosing to drink while pregnant is probably not going to take care of that child you are. You are going to pay the exspenses of that child when it goes into states custody. Now how do you fill about it. So as for it being her choice no it is not her choice to drink while pregnant it is my and your choice because eventually we as working adults are going to pay for that childs exspenses. Once all of you people that say it is a womans choice to drink while she is pregnant have raised one of these children that suffer from all the problems that the mother who has the right to drink while she is pregnant has caused this child then you tell me if it is her right to drink while she is pregnant.
I have heard all of the glass of wine or beer a day and that is fine. Despite what was said previously no this will not cause FAS unless it is done during the time that the childs brain is being formed then yes it can be very fatal. The safest way is to just not drink during pregnancy unless brought up by or has the ok from your doctor. Anything to the point of a buzz is too much.
I do also agree that if a woman is pregnant and just wants that one drink to cure a craving or is suggested by a doctor why should they not do it at home instead of a smoke filled bar.
If you want to know anything else on FAS please fill free to ask I live it daily as well as 3 other sets of parents that are rasing my sons bio mom's 3 other kids that she can not take care of 2 of which also have been diagnosed with FAS. By the way before we adopted these children if you work you were paying for them. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 4:37:11 AM | | Theres no safe time to drink regularly while pregnant, no. If you're drinking one drink, it's not so bad. My doctor told me if I wanted to, I could drink a beer a week...I didn't mind you, but I had the option. And I breastfeed my daughter and have had a couple drinks, and she's fine. IMALITLTPOT....it doesn't mean she doesn't love her child. I agree that the waitress shouldve served her. It's up to the parent-to-be to decide whether or not she should be drinking and how much. WHile I understand the good intentions of the waitress, it's not her place to make that call. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 4:56:29 AM | | i find it shocking that a pregnant woman would even want to drink when pregnant,but i suppose it really depends on how much and how often,i think that one small glass of wine or a small beer once a week is fine,i worked in the pub industry myself and i think i would serve a pregnant woman as long as it wasnt more than what i said,if that was the case then i would definitely refuse service.There should be some sort of law to protect unborn child but how would you write this law as terminations are legal up to 24 weeks,would that mean it is ok to drink excessively up to 24 weeks?you really have posed a tough one there,but definitely agree that unborn child has the right to a good start. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 6:39:46 AM | alcohol does not enter the breastmilk directly. and also, you can pump and discard a few times if need be. this is not something I know from experience though.
I haven't read every last post yet, so if I'm repeating, then... get over it. lol
Alcohol ABSOLUTELY enters breastmilk!!!!! And yes, you can pump and dump afterwards. I'm not sure on how much you have do dump, but you can.
Oh yeah, and a lot of the pregnancy books say it's ok to have a drink late in pregnancy. In fact, I think the "What to Expect" book does as well. The AAP doesn't recommend it, but lots of OBGYN's will recommend a drink for cases like NM's, or just to relax or whatever. ONE drink is NOT going to cause FAS. It's just not. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 7:19:18 AM | The waitress should have talked to the manager about what to do. As a business, the bar has the right to refuse service to anybody it wants. Since there aren't laws prohibiting pregnant women from drinking, bars should have policies in place on whether or not staff serves them alcoholic beverages or not.
Now, if this baby was born with fetal alcohol syndrome, what would stop the mother from suing the bar with the claim that 'it's all the bar's fault for serving it to me.' That sounds crazy, but people have sued for a lot less than that in the past...and won! | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 8:02:05 AM | Wow! So many different opinons... From experince of knowing a girl with FAS since she was 4 (shes now 23), the life she faced (with good foster parents) was hard. She has so many problems that interfer with a normal life. She will never live on her own due to her FAS.. She don't have the maturity to live on her own.. As a child learning was a big issue even though she did graduate high school but it is not the same as a normal high school graduate (grades and course wise).. She has all kinds of medical problems as well. Also she is easily tooken advantage of due to her maturity level... She had a bf who beat the sh!t out of her a few years back and almost killed her!!!
So I am gonna say that NO ALCOHOL is the best for a unborn child! 1 drink (beer, wine) every couple weeks or whatever may be ok but if you are drinking 1 glass everyday times that by 40 weeks thats alot of alcohol.. 1 drink can do damage, not neccessary full blown FAS but learning disabilities, and other congitive disabilities... When the babies brain is growing that is a dangerous time to be drinking alcohol.
Im a disabled woman by birth (Cerebral Palsy) so I have 31 years of experince of knowing other disabled people with ALL kinds of disabilities and have done my share of research and talking to people about the effects of pregancy and alcohol and there is NO SAFE AMOUNT!!! The risk is not worth it.. I think the waitress did what she thought was right... It maybe the women's body but there is a child who has no voice!!!
I remember a few years back this woman was a sniffer and CFS (child protective services) step in and took this mother to court and it was big headlines here in Manitoba... Like a few of said 'Her body her choice' that was the arguement her lawyer made.. It went on for a few months but in the end this woman was forced into a hospital (I believe) or a treatment centre untill the baby was born.. So what's the difference? Alcohol is as damaging as sniffing... Like I said no amount is safe but if you do choose to have 1 or 2 or even 3 over a 40 week period maybe ok but you just don't know what damage it can do!! Just to be clear when I say drink I mean a full glass... I know women who have a sip here and there but nothing to add up to a full glass... | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 10:31:04 AM | Let me clear. "'Her body her choice" when I use the definition is the choice for a woman to terminate a pregnancy or carry a child to term. It means a man cannot dictate how my body is used or control my reproductive rights by telling me when I can and cannot bear a child. Men have no reproductive rights regarding a woman because it is the woman;s body who carries and nourishes the child and the man has no role in this naturally occuring wonder, with the exception of providing the sperm. No man or government will tell me I have no choice when it comes to MY body.
Abusing a substance which causes harm to an unborn child she elected to carry is outside this scope in my view. But by legal definition the fetus is not a person as defined by law.
People will disagree, especially the religious right and anti-abortionists, and that's ok - but the law is the law as it stands now.
If the child has sufferred during the course opf pregnancy and is born with defect as a reslt,the child is now a person and the mother can, will and should be held accountable.
The reason education says don't consume ANY alcohol while pregnant is that although they believes 3-4 oz of alcohol per day significantly increases the risk of FAS and deformity, they can;t determine if it is 3 OR 4, so they say don't have any and avoid the problem entirely. By stating this, they are certainly NOT saying one or two or even rtgheee risks is proven in any study to adversely affect the baby. It may be implied, but it is not proven or factual. | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 11:15:07 AM |
So I am gonna say that NO ALCOHOL is the best for a unborn child! 1 drink (beer, wine) every couple weeks or whatever may be ok but if you are drinking 1 glass everyday times that by 40 weeks thats alot of alcohol..
I don't think anyone is arguing that a pregnant woman should have a drink every single day. However, we are arguing that ONE drink every once in a while is NOT going to cause FAS. I also do not believe that ONE drink is going to cause any other disability.
I hate to pick on you here, but I do have to ask. How can you think it's not ok to even have one drink during pregnancy, but somehow it's ok to let your child drink a beer with you?
And to whomever said "why can't she have that drink at home instead of a smoke filled bar?"
Perhaps they were celebrating an event? Say her friend just got a promotion or graduated college or something and the friend wanted to go out for dinner and drinks? | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 11:16:23 AM | I agree that having 3 0r 4 alcoholic drinks throughout a 9 months period maybe ok as long as the pregant mom knows the risks and the affects that the baby could suffer .. Personally, a pregant woman should not be drinking, its too risky period!! I seen the damage a little alcohol can do and I have seen what tons of alcohol can do!! ..
These kids who are born with problems due to a mothers drinking are the ones who suffer a lifetime of ups and down.. A rollercoaster of behavioural, congitive, and learning disabilities.. Is this fair to put on a child?? Why not prevent this from happening? By not drinking!! Give the unborn child a chance to develop and be born before the mom puts alcohol in her system!!!!! | |
|
| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 11:21:11 AM | | About having a drink with my child at a certian age... The child has a choice weither to have one or not and it doesn't have the same affect as if I was pregant with my child!! It's still about monitoration too!!! | |
|
Home
login 
