| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 11:38:50 AM | So, should pregnant women also avoid caffeine at all costs? It does cross the placenta, and could create birth defects, low birthweight, etc. (Although there have been no studies on humans to prove this, it is recommended that women avoid caffeine while pg.) Oh! And lets not forget tuna!!! OMG all that mercury!!!
So, I guess that if a woman goes to a restaurant and orders a coke and a tuna sandwhich, the server should be able to deny her those choices because it could harm her baby. I mean, that ONE coke you had, or that ONE tuna sandwhich you had could do irreversable harm to your unborn baby.
Sweet- as far as a child drinking a beer and it not having the *same* affect, I'll give you that, HOWEVER it has been proven that children who start drinking before the age of 20 are more likely to become alcoholics, binge drinkers, etc. Why? Because their brains are not yet fully developed. So, essentially, it IS the same, as it *could* cause them problems later on in life. | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:08:20 PM | I agree theres all kind of stuff that do cause birth defects! I did stay away from caffeine when I was pregant!(I hate tuna so that didn't have any bearing).. I took whatever precausions I could to deliver a healthy baby!!! As I said before its about monitoration and education, knowing the risks about what you put in your body when pregant.. I am not saying OMG cut everything out!! LOL .. I am saying educate yourself (not you pwg personally) and know what the risks are... Weigh out the risks, monitor the intake thats all!! Personally, I avoided or tried my hardest to avoid risks like alcohol when I was pregant!
As for my child drinking with me, it is monitored and limited and rarely happens.. Its not like I get trashed with him!!! I was allowed growing up with my 2 other siblings to drink and none of us rarely ever drink!! | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:10:38 PM | ^^^
We're cool. I think we're more on the same page than we realize. The top part of my post was in general, not directed toward you.  | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:14:36 PM | I am wondering when it is that the brain IS NOT developing? I mean, for those of you who say it is safe except for when the brain is devoping. Is it not always devloping? within the uterus, and then throughout adolesence?
And to go as far as trying to avoid smoke and caffeine. Sure, I mean smoking is dangerous absolutely. Yes this can be avoided, but you can't avoid going outside. So of course you will be around harmful things in the air. So while you can avoid smoking, you can't avoid air pollution completely. And also should limit caffeine intake. With my pregnancies, I would have no more than 2 cups of coffee in a day. Then drink juice, or water, or milk the rest of the day. I am trying to go somewhere with this, bear with me :) haha So, while you can't completely avoid pollution, or second hand smoke at all times, you can completely avoid alcohol. You are not going to walk downtown, and be forced a drink. It is something that you can totally be rid of.
There are so many restrictions, and limitations that come along with pregnancy. So many things are recommended to ensure the health of the child, and while some of those things are difficult, or next to impossible for some people to avoid, alcohol is one of the easier things to put away for a while.
I do think that maybe the bars around here should have a policy to not serve pregnant women. I mean, how bad would the waitress feel if she served that woman, and down the road saw the poor child, with some form of disability. She would feel responsible, and it is not fair to put that on an innocent waitress. And like that one women said a few posts ago, what if the woman sued the establishment? | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:27:51 PM | Ok what get's me is that everyone is sitting here going on about dont do this well pregnant because it will cause this and it will cause that. And dont get me wrong I also dont agree with drinking well pregnant but look at it this way ok. You do everything right during your pregnancy, you dont drink you dont smoke, you dont drink this you dont eat that you get my drift, but when your child is born they have down syndrome, or have spineibita (sp) or something else. Well what causes that? it is the same yes there are women out there that do drink or smoke or eat this or that during their pregnancy, no it doesnt mean that they dont love their child, how do you know that they were not recomneded by their dr to do this for the help of the baby???? oh wait I guess you shouldnt take your dr's advice right????
They monitor your baby well in the uterus for a reason and that is what count's. Yes there are children out there that have problems and so forth and yes FAS is caused by drinking but if you ask about FAS and about how the mother was when pregnant with drinking they will not sit and tell you that she had one drink a week they will tell you that she drank every day a certin ammount and that is what caused FAS. So there is a diffrence between what you drink and how much you are drinking when pregnant and that is what is going to make the diffrence between if your child is going to have FAS or not, the same as if the mother was a drug addict! | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:35:22 PM | | check out kidshealth.org there is information on FAS and FAE. its an easy read | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:41:38 PM | Until they make it illegal to consume ANY alcohol while pregnant the waitress was required to serve her.
Ok agreed ,,,,
So lets make it the law ,,add smokeing to that also..
a new law...pregnant women cant drink or smoke or eat to much junk food,, and you cant deny that drinking and smoking can harm a childs development . | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:44:37 PM |
and you cant deny that drinking and smoking can harm a childs development .
There are lots of women out there that smoke well they are pregnant and it has done nothing to the child so it is the same as having a drink every once in a while. The bottome line here is you cant make a law like that or it would have already been done. | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:46:55 PM |
I am wondering when it is that the brain IS NOT developing? I mean, for those of you who say it is safe except for when the brain is devoping. Is it not always devloping? within the uterus, and then throughout adolesence?
That was pretty much my point.
And also should limit caffeine intake. With my pregnancies, I would have no more than 2 cups of coffee in a day.
And some would argue that two cups of coffee a day was too much. Coffee has an insane amount of caffeine in it.
you can completely avoid alcohol. You are not going to walk downtown, and be forced a drink. It is something that you can totally be rid of.
Same could be said about caffeine and fish that's high in mercury. (For two examples) | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:52:48 PM | The law protects the woman's right to choose, like it or not an unborn baby is not considered a human life until after birth. I believe in her rights, I don't agree with them, but I support her as an individual with rights.
Before anyone gets upset let me say this I am an adoptive parent with 2 children who have FASD and Drug Related issues. I knew full well what their outcomes were when I chose them. I live everyday with the aftereffects of Alcohol during gestation for the past 10 years. I firmly believe in accountability mothers who drink need to be responsible for their choices. But criminalizing it isn't the answer, for one thing if the woman is a regular user withdrawl could cost a baby it's life not to mention other serious disabilities and set backs. For another withdrawl could dangerously impact the woman...which in turn endangers the child. Alcohol and drug usage during pregnancy are often (but not always) symptoms of deeper larger issues. I am not excusing or reasoning that it is ok by any means. Just pointing out that negative responses, confrontation and discrimination because of choices she has every right to make will only serve to further the damage to the child.
Children both born and unborn need advocates to stand for them absolutely, as a people we need to push law makers and people in authority to change the laws to better serve children. We also have to protect individual rights and freedoms, blood has been shed and lives lost to preserve that privilege. Once you start infringing 1 person's rights, it can snowball so easily into more and more until the lives we live are not our own.
We need program and supports to help pregnant moms with substance issues not punish them, because when we punish mom we punish the child...
Namaste,
Misty | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:55:25 PM | | One point I haven't seen discussed is the liability of a bar. Common sense would say her choice her responsibility right? Well that logical already does not apply to impairred drivers ................ Welcome to the Sue-ciety that is North America. Since the server and the establishment which servers a person can be held liable for the actions and consequences of serving people the server was most certainly within her rights to refuse service. | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 12:59:04 PM | i think that it could be made a law. I mean, perhaps making it illegal to allow a pregnant woman to drink may be difficult, because yes she could just do it at home. But I think it would be possible to make it illegal to serve her in a bar. Just like you can't stop minors from drinking. You can deny entrance to a minor, and deny sales to a minor and they will find a way. But we could at least stop permitting pregnant woman to be served. Then it is completely on her, and nobody else has to be partially responsible for the outcome, if any.
if nothing else, it is not fair to the server to have to partake in this kind of situation. I am just saying, that when we decide to work in a bar we don't want to sign up for harming a child for life. That is a huge amount of guilt to have to live with.
and there are other things out there, unrelated to this, that although are not illegal people avoid doing because they know it is "wrong". So just because its legal, does not mean it is ok | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:02:11 PM | | In the US we have great big signs in every place that sells or serves alcohol that warns that consuming alcohol while pregnant can cause X,Y, and Z. Now, I'm not sure, but perhaps having that sign posted takes away the legal responsibility from the establishment that's selling and/or serving alcoholic beverages?? | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:04:38 PM | un true tobacco is just as harmful as pot......statistically, babies of smoking mothers tend to be small, have health issues and are at risk for serious disorders. Just because it doesn't show outwardly...doesn't mean its not there.
Same with Alcohol and Drugs.....1 in 10 children will have no measurable effects of parental cocaine use.....there is no way to measure how much alcohol it takes to cause FASD, physical appearances of FASD only happen if there is alcohol consumption during days 19 to 21 and it only takes 1 day within that time frame to cause physical traits. It is completely unpredictable ....1 child may have severe FASD and mom drank 2 beers or anothe child will have seemingly no effects and mom drank regularly.
this is a catch -22 whose rights supercede whose? its not an easy answer thats for sure........ | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:12:24 PM | the point is that its no one's responsibility but the mother's to drink, as a server or establishment it isn't within your rights to deny based on her pregnancy...that would be discrimination and could land the server/place in a world of trouble.
Reality is its not the server/place's responsibility or right to make that decision, whether they feel its morally wrong is a moot point. Oppressing your will onto another is wrong. Morally sanctioning another person for exercising their rights is just as bad as drinking while pregnant. It does not matter if you think what they are doing is right or wrong.
ok I realize that sounds preachy and thats not my intent :-) I am just trying to present a bigger picture...... | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:14:23 PM | LoonyTunz: Love it
thats absolutely true. The bar is held responsible for anything that happens from the time the patron leaves until he/she arrives at home. So if we serve a person booze, they leave and get in a car accident, maybe even kill somebody... the bar can easily be held accountable. I've heard of cases like this before. And anybody working in the bar industry has to be aware of their responsibilities.
I worked in a Legion once, and if we thought that they were unable to drive, we had to offer them a taxi, which the legion paid for. If they refused the taxi, they were required to sign a form stating that they were offered a ride, and refused, and that the legion would not be held accountable for the actions of the person from that time on. | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:26:47 PM |
the point is that its no one's responsibility but the mother's to drink, as a server or establishment it isn't within your rights to deny based on her pregnancy...that would be discrimination and could land the server/place in a world of trouble.
^^^Wrong, they can deny service for a dress code it is a private business. Oh boo-hoo "they are discriminating against me because I showed up dressed like a bum" is not going to win a court case. So neither should this. Discrimination can ONLY be argued on the basis of sex, religion, ethnicity, disability, age, creed or colour. | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:31:28 PM | | only if there is a violation of any imposed dress code, likey she won't be alone, and if she can put together credible witnesses and show she was not in violation its still discrimination | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:40:13 PM | Ummm no it is not.
Pregnancy does not equate to discrimination based on sex. Women are served at the bar no doubt. Pregnancy can be against the bloody dress code. Look again at exactly what reasons are illegal to discriminate against and get back when you find "being pregnant". | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:42:40 PM | ^^^
I really don't know which one of you is right, but it's illegal to not hire a woman because she's pregnant or to fire her because she is. So what does that fall under? | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:44:49 PM | I know one of the two Ontario cases well - sopcial responsibility.
An Ontario case from a few years ago when an employer was found partially responsible for damages caused by an intoxicated employee. The employer held an office Christmas party where alcohol was served. A female employee consumed a great deal of alcohol. She left the party and continued drinking at a bar. Three people offered to drive her home, but she refused. She eventually decided to drive home. She crashed her car and as a result of the accident suffered permanent brain damage. She sued in Court and the employer and the bar were each found liable for 25% of her damages. She was found responsible for the remaining fifty percent. The Court said that the employer should have taken more aggressive action to stop the woman from driving such as taking her keys away or even calling the police. The case was appealed, to a higher Court however because the parties settled out of Court, the legal issue remains unresolved. There was some public outrage after this case was decided. The difficult issue is how much weight should be given to personal responsibility.
If a bar serves a woman a drink she could not then just sue the bar for damages based on that alone if her child is found to had FAS. | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:50:45 PM |
I really don't know which one of you is right, but it's illegal to not hire a woman because she's pregnant or to fire her because she is. So what does that fall under?
^^^ Dress code addendum : Absolutely no maternity wear, track pants or other "fat" clothes. Problem solved and now the bars and servers have no worries of being sued. | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 1:53:11 PM | | There definitely should be a law to protect the unborn. The Mother only needs one drink at the wrong time to mess her kid up for life. Although the Waitress may have had no right to decline service, at least she can sleep at night. As far as I am concerned why take the chance that one drink will or will not harm the child. | |
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| pregnant and drinking
Posted: 4/25/2007 2:12:21 PM |
^^^ Dress code addendum : Absolutely no maternity wear, track pants or other "fat" clothes. Problem solved and now the bars and servers have no worries of being sued.
I hardly think it would fall under the dress code. You can't refuse to serve a cheeseburger to a fat person, so why could you refuse to serve a beer to a pregnant woman? | |
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