| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/20/2008 10:13:18 AM | | I've thought about this for a long time, especially having lived in California for over 30 years where spanish speaking people make up a large portion of the population, and I have many spanish speaking friends. I do believe that anyone who wants to become a citizen should at least learn some basic english in order to integrate into american society. When applying for a job, attending school and getting to know their new neighbors, knowing english will make it easier for them and more acceptable by those who may have a problem with immigration. But what I don't hear....and would like to hear...is for more americans to begin to learn spanish. I've traveled to a few other countries around the world and was impressed at how much the people of those countries knew about the history of the U.S., and was told that english was taught in the schools there. Mexico is our neighbor to the south and Canada is our neighbor to the north and many of the high school aged kids that I've talked to here in the U.S. knew almost nothing about those countries. And don't even ask them about any of the european countries or asian countries. And to add to that, if you show them a map of the world and ask them to point out certain countries, many had no clue where they were. I mention this because I believe that in order for americans to understand the immigrants coming into the U.S. we should also understand the culture of the countries they are coming from. All immigrants should at least learn basic english and since spanish is the language of most of the immigrants, americans should take the time to learn spanish also......or are we too lazy to do so. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/20/2008 10:17:14 AM | American citizenship used to require an English language and American history test.
Is this no longer the case?
In any event, there are lots of immigrants who live here that are not formally citizens, on green cards renewable every 10 years, etc. Should that be required of them?
The statistics are that new immigrants may learn some English, many don't. My grandparents have been here as citizens since the 1940's, it is very difficult for someone who doesn't know them to understand their broken English. Their kids will be bilingual and their kids will have all but forgotten the native language and speak only English.
Eventually, everyone speaks only English, there is no need to declare it a formal language. English is very difficult to learn in order to speak articulately and fluently, it takes years and years of study and I know people who majored in English at colleges in China and Russia that are still hard for me to understand.
Basically, formalizing English isn't so much a need as it would be a weapon against immigrants. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/20/2008 3:53:45 PM | In response to msg 64:
I've heard that many times from Canadians. They say, what's the big deal? Canada is a bi-lingual country with english and french, so why are Americans upset about the idea of having to learn spanish and becoming a bi-lingual country?
Its an apples and oranges situation for the most part. I have to make it known I think its great for Americans to learn languages other than english and I don't have a problem with people who want to speak, read or write languages other than english, as long as the citizens of this country can read, write and speak english at at least a basic level of proficiency(which is what the law says currently anyway to become a citizen). With Canada, you have many french speaking canadian citizens(most of whom are there legally). In America, the rapid growth of spanish is largely due to illegal immigration. People don't like the language being changed from english to spanish through illegal means(and its not just white people who care, but non-white people who are here legally care too). If it was being done in a purely legal manner, that would be different.
So, that is a big reason why you have many Americans who are concerned and upset over it and attempts to make english the official language of the United States(worth noting is if this happened, people would be free to speak whatever language they wished, it would just reinforce the need to learn english instead of being able to get by in day to day life without ever having to learn english).
As someone else pointed out, under current laws, in order to become a citizen of the U.S., you have to speak, read and write english. If you can't read write or speak english at even a basic level, you either cheated(or someone helped you cheat) to get citizenship papers, or you're not a citizen of this country and possibly here illegally unless you are a visitor on a visa or some other class of non-citizen.
I can't help but be reminded of things Teddy Roosevelt said so long ago, about the importance of English, and how it helped unify the American people so that they would not become divided, and I agree with what he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/27/quote.roosevelt/index.html
But to answer the OP's question directly, yes, basic english language skills should be required to become a citizen of the U.S. Some day, if the flood of illegal immigration continues on the way it is, spanish may become the official language of the U.S. in a matter of decades, so then you may have to come back here and ask a slighty different question...Should basic Spanish language skills be required for legal citizenship? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/20/2008 4:53:54 PM | Wow, what a long thread. I noticed I posted twice before over the past months and must say not much has changed.
I would be 100% behind a proposal to make immigrants meet certain criteria, but ONLY if the same test was applied to all the native born residents. Those that failed should have their citizenship rights stripped from them as well. Let's just be fair about it. Why expect immigrants to be more educated than the citizens?
And...
I wonder how many Native American languages the OP speaks? Isn't that kinda like the pot calling the kettle black? Europeans come here, commit genocide on the native people and steal their land, then complain later about keeping the nation white. Oh, of course they will spin it as making people speak english, but the root issue is BROWN people moving in after two centuries of immigration preference given to Europeans. Now that that's ended, we need immigration reform NOW!! "OMG! The brown people are coming! The brown people are coming!"
Hell, I know very basic Spanish and I can understand many of the Hispanic immigrants much better than I can understand some of the teenagers born and raised here. Many of our kids are so stupid many could not even READ a test on basic English skills, much less pass it.
Wish the Indians had a better immigration policy, then this whole conversation would be a mute point. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/21/2008 9:50:47 PM | Not only should it be a requirment for citzenship, it should be required for a job, all contracts, etc.
Also, signs and announcments in other languages should be forbidden. If it is required that you speak and understand fluent english in order to legally be here, then whom are you addressing in another language???? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/21/2008 10:11:53 PM | | Joyce they should be required to speak english. I am tired of going through a drive through for food and getting the wrong thing every time. My most annoying thing of the day every call on the phone ask for you to hit 1 for english. Why don't it say hit 1 for spanish. Why does it even say anything SPEAK ENGLISH or leave. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/21/2008 10:43:08 PM | It would be a moot point IF businesses answered their phones in English and if you need another language, then, press the 1 for another language.. not to get to an English interpretation. Course one would have to know English to understand the initial statement on these prerecorded messages. Voila.
I think Nature will take care of things. English will prevail. It's a Worldwide language now anyway. It's just that right now the USA is so overly concerned with being PC... this will pass eventually. Soon enough it will be English and Middle East languages which will be necessary to keep abreast of the world landscape. The winds are ablowin' and it's in the air.
As for English not being the true language of the USA, as a Poster pointed out... that it might should be American Indian language. Well... here's the thing. The USA, Canada, France, Europe, etc. etc. are all NOT original languages. Indians and other Tribes were on Canadian and European soil before English/French, etc. Throw in different languages, dialects, sub dialects, etc. and it can get real confusing.
Plus..to be FAIR, we would ALL need to return to the languages spoken during the cradle years of civilization. Maybe that's where we're headed... the languages which dominate the Middle East. Hmmmmmm | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/22/2008 5:40:54 AM | | yes they should have at least a base knowledge of english. coming from england i see everyday the firsthand problems it creates. a lot of the guys that work in my factory are polish, most are good hard working guys however most of them dont even have a basic knowledge of the language. it creates no end of problems | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:42:39 AM |
e Tower of Babel? Is this story familiar to anyone else? Why cater to one specific group of non English speaking immigrants let them all speak their native tongues with no common language that worked out pretty well in the story..
I totally agree. Seriously.
If I were to take up residence in another land, I would learn their language in order to better reside there plus keeping my original language well tuned.
It just makes sense to know and use the language of the Country one is living in. Be proficient in it. But, if just visiting, no need to fully comprehend that land's tongue. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/20/2008 8:47:23 PM | I fully agree with you Tom, but until all the liberals agree to do something about it (and they won't) better learn spanish. People who are as fed up about this as what I am should right or call their congress people or their senators or even their state reps. And PLEASE don't call them immigrants. Immigrants are those tho came to this country amnd LEARNED our LANGUAGE and CUSTOMS. THEY are illegal aliens. When we go to their countries we have to do according to their customs. When thgey come to the god old USA they don't have to abide by our customs. They still dress like they are in their own country. They should all be shipped out. Think I'm just a bit upset? YES, I am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/20/2008 8:59:32 PM | | ...yes, English should be an official language and we should start with posters learning what the words they are using means...after that we should change the name of states that have any meaning besides English such as Montana, Nevada, Colorado etc....... | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/24/2008 12:20:07 PM | ^^^ if you can't see that the whole discussion is absurd and a waste of time from REAL issues than i can see how you would have your opinion....
hell, loads of US citizens that are white, educated and brought up speaking English hardly know what they are even saying English is used so poorly.....
reminds me of the guy who came to a seminar i was at who was very late and exclaimed "I would have gotten here sooner if the guy at the gas station spoke American!" | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/24/2008 3:56:24 PM | | To those opposed to English being the common or national language of America. What are the real reasons that you oppose English? After all isn't it already the common language of most..I often wonder why so many are against having English as our Language as a country. I also wonder why so many of the new immigrants have no desire to or maybe they lack the ability to learn English. If it is due to some sort of inability then we should help them, if it is lack of desire, we should ask ourselves why?What would be wrong with a common national language, everyone would still be free to speak their native languages at home, in public or anywhere else they choose.I think if those opposed were to be honest, their objection is based primarily on their perception of America and Americans as racist.In some twisted logic they think that by adopting a common language for all that this somehow discriminates against Latin Americans, this contention is baseless.We would all be better served by having a common language while still being afforded the rights and opportunity to speak our native languages whenever and wherever we desire.A common language would only better our culture and facilitate all business and governing aspects of our society. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:18:21 PM | There is absolutely no reason that makes sense to require English to be a citizen. If I were move to Spain, Italy or any other country I would expect to do the same if I were ever to get citizenship. In those countries if you can't speak their language you are screwed. I think it should be the same here.
When I went to a San Diego Padres game 2 years ago the opening ceremonies were in English and Spanish, WTF! That was the first baseball game I have ever been to that had two languages.
We could cut a lot of costs to state documents in the republic of California if we just had English only forms. It wouldn't make that much of a difference but if you can't read, why just learn rather than make everyone else pay for your shortcomings?
Again, I would expect the same in any other country. You learn their language and their culture and you fit in, not make everyone else fit to you. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:51:14 PM | NO, there should not be an "official" language in America.
YES, there should be some minimal knowledge of the English language, but I say "should be", if there isnt, so what?
My grandparents came off the boat from Italy in the 1930's, didnt speak a word of English and I didnt understand them half the time growing up, either. I dont supp0se you patriotic "Americans" have any understanding of how difficult it is to learn English as an adult, but maybe go to Germany or France or China for a month, get a job, order food, make some friends.........see what a real and genuine smartass you are there.
My father, second generation, was bilingual as was his brothers and sisters.
Myself, as third generation, speak only English with a little bit of Italian.
And that pattern repeats itself over and over and over again.
So, whats your problem? Eventually, their kids speak perfect English and their grandkids speak only perfect English...........just not quick enough for you, eh?
Is THAT your little problem?????????????????? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/24/2008 7:01:21 PM | ....why?
how about this...
most everybody else on the planet speaks at least one language. my uncle the rabbi speaks 6 languages not counting hebrew and my mother speaks 4.
now what i've noticed about people who speak multiple languages is that they are able to think of things in different terms because different languages create different ways of thinking.
English, in general, is fairly left brained and can be seen reflected in our society. Look at cultures that are latin based and see how they deal with politics.
the ONLY point to making english official has complete racist and ethnocentric connotations.... | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/24/2008 7:10:21 PM |
As our "leaders" look at the issue of immigration reform should they look at adopting a requirement that would require some proficiency of the English language before citizenship is granted?
our 'leader' can barely speak the language himself! he makes a mockery of it every time he opens his mouth. if we make english the 'official' language, everyone in public office should have to pass a competency exam. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/24/2008 7:21:51 PM | I do think there should be mandatory ESL classes for everyone, more Big Govt!
But the free market would force individuals to learn english to obtain white collar jobs. Or businesses will decide that latin consumers are important and create spanish advertising.
Ironically, many people want to learn Chinese in order to work in the Asian markets. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/24/2008 11:49:40 PM | Language doesn't = culture, I'm Canadian but I tend to agree that a common language is needed for a country to operate. It doesn't just put us at a disadvantage when we're working with people that barely speak english if they do at all, it puts them at a disadvantage as well, probably an even larger one.
Communication is important to be a productive part of society, even so far as keeping to yourself and paying your taxes.
I support the idea that people should try and learn another language though, it's useful stuff, but I've even heard from people in other countries that English is the international language of buisness. If that's true, it actually just makes no sense at all to move to a predominantly english speaking country on top of that and not know how to speak the language. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/25/2008 5:11:46 AM |
English is spoken the world over and is by no means threatened. And as far as the European English are concerned the Americans have never learned how to speak it properly in the first place. And we should care what the European English have to say? I think they are insulting our Speech and English teachers here in the US. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:38:12 AM |
the ONLY point to making english official has complete racist and ethnocentric connotations....
I couldn't agree with you less Crash. An immigrant coming in to a new country should be expected to learn the common language for quicker and easier transition to his new home. I believe it's unifying and creates less divisiveness. That is not to say he will lose his old language and customs, just gain new ones as well. | |
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