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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/23/2007 12:50:37 PM |
i think that ya immigrants shouldn't need to know how to speak englsih but they can't expect everyone to learn their language either
If immigrants don't learn the language of the land they immigrate to, then, the confusion continues and mounts. Realistically and logically, any immigrant which goes to live/become a citizen of another land where their mother tongue is not the primary language, should learn the language of their new home. | |
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NateC
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Joined: 4/10/2006
Msg: 77 | |
| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/23/2007 4:55:11 PM | Oh, I never said anything about France's English speaking capacity, I was saying that France French is different than everyone else's :P
But I'm well aware of France and English; Louise Beaudoin was uppity enough to make it apparent to the entire world, and Terry Mosher was all too happy to spoof her over it :P
However, if I were to move to France, you can bet your derriere I'd be learning Parisienne at the least. Would I move to France? Hell no. They bottle bathwater and call it Perrier! :| | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/23/2007 7:27:15 PM | have any of you ever been subject to rather strange civil codes such as when purchasing your home or having your business or hospital inspected? or perhaps suddenly find an annoying ammendment to your credit card agreement or to your health insurance policy? the fact is that many of these codes, rules, policies were enacted politically or financially due to one particular incident or cost ramification w/o ever thinking about the impact of that policy on other issues.
there is a marketing concept derived from warfare which compares tactical (winning the battle) to strategic (winning the war) thinking. a lot of that applies to this question. for example if you demand that someone speak english to be a citizen and let's "imagine" that along comes one of the world's most famous genius scientists who only speaks their language of origin, and they want to leave their country and come here and apply for citizenship. well, they won't be allowed!
now don't get flustered, this is just a visualization/game to play when building a strategy beyond a tactical solution. we used to do it all the time and the best solution often came from participation by many who "did not agree" at first.
so i know, you say if s/he is a genius, then english can be learned easily. but i say this particular genius is skilled in mathematics and the language centers are not so good!
ok. being the creative process, let's switch gears. i am told all air traffic controllers throughout the globe must speak english and that this was decided some time ago, no doubt when the english speaking were in power, so that there would be no accidents. so that means if you cannot speak english, clearly your job opportunity is diminished here. but i also wonder if this has some "implication" for international trade which i believe over time will totally exchange hands with the emphasis of today's world of domestic trade. but whatever the case will be in the future, many foreign countries now demand that their children learn english in order to compete and not because they love us.
the internet of course, will strongly impact future communications with respect to consumer purchases, etc. but on the other hand, the UN has these microphones that translate one language to another so maybe that will be perfected one day and air trafficking will never be the same.
so here are two extreme examples of why not to demand english but why it is practical to learn english (at least within a forseeable future absent of radical technology implementation).
there is also one more projection. well actually many, but just chosing a couple to brainstorm. the future growth of mexico and south america let's say over the next 20-30 years..... da-mn i hope to live to see this.... but at any rate, although some of you are tactically taxed right now over the situation, in the future: the mutual understanding of the continents may lead to your child's future or failure (strategize).
those of us old fogey's (spelling?) who are still recuperating from the notion that there is no such thing as one career per lifetime, will continue to suffer through this existence. but our children are already being prepared to travel internationally and to communicate in ways that we cannot even imagine.
right now, speaking one other language is just a regular old perk. speaking two or three languages will get you the better job. also, they are finding that if you teach small pre-school children multiple languages, they will pick them up easily. it's the older children and adults who will have a hard time of it. so why NOT start them with at least two languages and one being english and the other reflecting the practical composition of nearby neighborhoods to start. other countries who are not integrated are way ahead on this. chinese kids are learning english. who do you think will benefit from this? we, in turn should be learning chinese or pick a country and learn that language.
i grew up in nyc, third generation, so my parents spoke both english and yiddish but i only learned the curse words.  however, most of my friends were second generation and their parents only spoke italian, polish, chinese. there was no technology then and neighborhoods were more paraochial, so there was less resentment. event the catholic churches were separated into italian, polish, etc. so that the priest could speak the language. here in CA i have noticed some "korean" churches for the same reason. but over time, they will be merging in.
no one ever got adamant that in "chinatown" or "little italy" that only that language was spoken. but then again, the kids had not yet started to "integrate" and nowadays we have the adults "integrating". for some this is very difficult culturally and economically and for others it is enjoyable, curious and interesting. nonetheless it is happening.
when i first came to the west coast from the east coast, i found it annoying that i had to wade through three languages via every "call center " i experienced (spanish, vietnamese and english). at that time, this was not the case in nyc or nj--but over the past 14 years things may have changed. i also continue to get annoyed that it takes so long for banks and insurance companies to answer the phone (advising me to use the internet instead, which i hate) and that the crisis call center for the local hospital may be located in another state. BUT, i got used to it. plus, many of the call centers provide jobs in areas that are impoverished and therefore lesser cost to the hospitals. those who lost the jobs here are pissed. those who got the jobs are grateful.
we are evolving both for the good and the bad. my parents did not have refrigerators and the ice man deliverd the ice to put in the icebox. my ex husband from scotland was raised in a similar manner and his father only bought his house in the past 15 years because before that you did not own a house in scotland, the government owned and subsidized it. i remember when i was five and we got a black and white tv. in grad school the only computers were those huge things that took up large rooms. the electronic typewriters were $10,000 apiece when i started my company. i myself was brain dead when it came to programming in DOS and had to hire someone before the pc to type my letters.
i learned a little spanish on the east coast (puerto rican dialect) and it's completely "greek" on the west coast. the dialects are so different my east coast spanish speaking friends cannot understand my mexican friends unless they "speak slow". but guess, what? if they move here to work, they will have to adjust and vice versa. the other day my mexican friend, born here, was told she was not mexican--she was mexican american because she was born here. she was really upset. but i thought about it and i'm russian descent or russian american and my friend who immigrated from russia was really brought up in the russian jewish underground culture --so there are different implications to our history. we can set up a fence or we can be eager to learn.
this is the new world. look at the speed of the internet. believe me it was not developed just for plenty of fish. it has a multitude of ramifications as does all other technology. some good and some bad. just like atomic energy. we will all resist. but those who think strategically if not for themselves, but for their children, will have their "lineage" positioned in a better place in the future.
summary (my "opinion"): do not require english to immigrate. require english for some jobs or at least multiple languages as needed and require the offering of at least one other language starting early on in elementary school, so it makes it that much easier later for international relations and commerce later on. as part of "customer service" teach your employees not to chat in their mother country tongue while working so that the customer does not feel they are being made fun of. offer english classes to employees who don't necessarily need to learn english in particular postitions but would like to do so, particularly in support of their children's future. teach cultural differences (my ex took a course in this in order to rep in korea--quite amazing!). i also remember , we had a hospital course for our "physician" residents which included "personal hygeine" due to differences in american versus abroad and given the american supposed "obsession" with deodorants, etc. some of this can be amusing, some annoying. but as some have said, do you want to be happy and your kids to be happy or do you want to be right? | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 79 | |
| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/23/2007 9:55:09 PM | English is a tougher language to learn than learning Spanish.
People who put down other's for their poor English command
have no idea how twisted and bizarre English is. The only reason
why you have any reasonable command of English is because of
osmosis. If it weren't for that fact, you'd be incapable of learning
any language. Take a look at Canadians...many, if not most, of us
speak French simply because it's an official language of Canada.
Nobody here's complaining because French is spoken globally...Africa
and of course France. When you've mastered French, then you can
easily learn Spanish because of their similarities. Quebecors especially
will pick up Spanish in a few short weeks. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/23/2007 11:33:21 PM | i believe chinese is the hardest. one vowel fluctuates up and down all with different meanings. so i am told. when i was in college, light years ago, people took spanish and french --typically started in hs--because they were similar to learn. but alas! the spanish was from spain and nobody ever understood us when travelling in south america. even here, spanish "speaking" people do not necessarily get good grades in spanish! in CA, for local purposes, the predominant foreign languages are spanish and vietnamese. the latter is difficult to learn. i am one of those people who DOES have a hard time learning languages and would have been blessed to have learned when i was much younger.
yes, english is very difficult. with the emphasis upon creative writing lately, fewer and fewer younger people have a good grasp of it or grammer. you learn all these rules and then have to learn when they DON't apply. my kids were primarily spanish speaking when i got them as teens and had taught themselves english watching tv. they are very bright and were able to expand their grasp of english and vocabulary very quickly . i had to explain almost every word i spoke. they are also quick to pick up slang and dialects depending upon whom they are hanging with. but when it comes to spelling it all out and being grammatically correct, they are just struggling with that now. the public schools did not demand it, again wanting them to learn "expression". my little one in private school now is experiencing the demands of a harsher "academic" world.
way back a friend of mine studied arabic at harvard and expected to do something esoteric. she ended up in banking relations with arabic countries and then got into spanish speaking countries (also banking) and then because she was in banking became asst. controller of nyc! goes to show you, it pays to learn foreign languages. but you never know where they will lead you! when i knew he r before harvard she was a bicycle carrier in her late 20's. lost track of her since her political glory. but hey people, learn languages. jobs are aplenty and can be very interesting. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/24/2007 3:49:47 PM | | Should be required to speak English to get citizenship, and Austrailan immigration system is the what Untied States should use, and set it up where work Visas would be based on skill level, education, good character. We can still have Mexican migrants as workers, but require them to pay bond for a work visa, and require a statement of oalf not to use soical services while on the work visa. Personally immigration reform wont happen because you got the blowhorns on the right afriad of border which been happing since the 19th century anyways, and the left that wants anmesty for cheap votes to win electoral seats. Citizenship should only be allowed for speaking English, and knowing the US consitution, and memorizing the pledge of allengence, and understanding American values. Residency would be a better opiton than amnesty for the problem, and US citizenship requirements should require like stated above they dont meet english speaking requirements than they only be granted Residency, but people came in illegally that committed felonies should be deported, and amensty for 12 million no, but residency to allow them to work, and collect social security if they can prove they work for 5 years here I can live with that. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/27/2007 11:53:08 PM |
...... you could start in your community, making waves in your supermarket, and we don't need to keep trying to get in contact with anyone in power. Look around you, all the places that you do businesses with, if enough of us do start threatening with taking it elsewhere, it will make them think twice about implementing some kind of change…
I did just that. Fully prepared to spend a hefty chunck of change on Kitchen cabinets, tile and hardwood flooring, counters, and new stainless steel fridge, sink, dishwasher and stove...my son and I went into Lowes. I was greeted at the door with huge signage that was in English and translated into Spanish. Inside the store, I looked arouned and every single piece of signage, including a huge banner leading to the 'restrooms' was also in Spanish. I went to the first clerk I could find and demanded to see the store manager, and I made a huge stink about it in front of all the customers. Unfortunately, I found the same situation in Home Depot, so I will be spending much more buying from less 'politically correct' businesses, but it will be worth it. And if it takes calling every installation contractor in the phone book to see that the work in my home is done without help from illegal aliens, then so be it.
But, my biggest pet peeve, is calling Social Security and given the 'Spanish' option. Or sitting in a hospital waiting room and reading the signage that reminds illegal aliens that they get free care, while Americans bust their butts to cover medical insurance and expensive procedures.
"As a result, bills are now pending before the House and Senate that would allocate $800 million over four years to states and counties to reimburse medical-care costs for undocumented immigrants. But those funds would be divided among 17 states, and would cover only a fraction of what hospitals spend annually treating illegal immigrants -- a figure Congress estimated at $2.8 billion two years ago."
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/06/border_hospitals.html
"Dr. Paul Stander, medical director of a hospital in Arizona, says his hospital treats some 15 illegal immigrants a day, compared to "just a few a month" only five years ago. The price tag for his hospital for the illegal freeloaders: $5 million a year. "As a result, he said, the wait for intensive care beds can last several DAYS, some emergency room patients can wait as long as 24 HOURS to see a doctor, and plans to upgrade equipment have been delayed."
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/28/2007 11:09:11 AM | This may sound foolish, but after having a situation in a local Walmart, where my cashier was speaking Spanish to her co worker, discussing the situation, while I waited for price matching with a competitor and I asked her to speak English, so I would know what was going on and her reply to me being............
"Oh you dont speak Spanish, I feel so sorry for you..... we don't speak English" in a sarcastic, rude manner.
I fully intend to request a manager and then an interpreter.....if the situation ever arises again.....
or when in a department and I approach an employee with a question and am advised...."I don't speak English"....I will do the same...I'm sick and tired of it.
Also I will not be patronized with just an employee who speaks English and not Spanish....nope I want the same privileges afforded to non English speaking people...I want a bi lingual to interpret for me, lets tie up about 3 of their employees for a period of time, while on their payroll...... | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/29/2007 4:25:01 PM |
But, my biggest pet peeve, is calling Social Security and given the 'Spanish' option. Or sitting in a hospital waiting room and reading the signage that reminds illegal aliens that they get free care, while Americans bust their butts to cover medical insurance and expensive procedures.
"As a result, bills are now pending before the House and Senate that would allocate $800 million over four years to states and counties to reimburse medical-care costs for undocumented immigrants. But those funds would be divided among 17 states, and would cover only a fraction of what hospitals spend annually treating illegal immigrants -- a figure Congress estimated at $2.8 billion two years ago."
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/06/border_hospitals.html
"Dr. Paul Stander, medical director of a hospital in Arizona, says his hospital treats some 15 illegal immigrants a day, compared to "just a few a month" only five years ago. The price tag for his hospital for the illegal freeloaders: $5 million a year. "As a result, he said, the wait for intensive care beds can last several DAYS, some emergency room patients can wait as long as 24 HOURS to see a doctor, and plans to upgrade equipment have been delayed."
Ah there she goes again!
Lady, foreigners who do not assimilate do not necessarily equal illegal aliens! I know that you don't like the concept of it all, but must you be that reluctant to that fact?
Because it is a fact; I know way too many people who have resided in the US a lot longer than you have been alive, and do not speak one word in English. Yet they are as much citizens as you are…
Oh yeah, one more thing, do you speak Spanish? You must, or please explain to me just how the hell were you able to understand signs posted to let everyone know that they do not deny Healthcare to anyone?
Also where do you live? .
Because in OC California; hospitals have not a problem turning away patients in need. Of course they do not do so openly, they do tell them to wait, until the same give up and go either home or elsewhere.
I have seen a lady in tears, which said that she had been there seven hours before I had arrived, but was told since the beginning, that there were no rooms to take her in. Then she said that it was perhaps because she didn't have insurance, when they called my son's name, I offer to let her go instead, after all you would think that if somebody was crying loudly because of pain, a children's room would have made no difference. Yet I was told that she needed a special room to tend to her.
The very same night, a dog bit another lady and she was bleeding in the very same waiting room, guess what, she was told the very same thing…
Perhaps someone like you could have kept quiet, but you know me, I didn't.
When they refuse to see her instead of my son; my answer was "excuse me? Lady get your ass to work and tell all those hot male nurses to either do the same or go to a strip joint where then can parade and look as pretty as they are trying to right now!
I threatened their staff to get these two ladies in a friggin' room or else! I was seriously considering calling the paramedics to see if they would take care of these ladies or at the very least take them to another hospital where there was still humanity involved while operating…
Perhaps you would have spoken for the blonde lady? Yeah the one that was born here, but just happened to have lost a job recently not having been able to get down to social services which she stated was in her immediate plans to apply for Medical benefits…
Though, I very much doubt that you would have for the one that was Hispanic and was in fact an illegal alien…
WTF is happening to us as human beings?
This may sound foolish, but after having a situation in a local Walmart, where my cashier was speaking Spanish to her co worker, discussing the situation, while I waited for price matching with a competitor and I asked her to speak English, so I would know what was going on and her reply to me being............
"Oh you dont speak Spanish, I feel so sorry for you..... we don't speak English" in a sarcastic, rude manner.
I fully intend to request a manager and then an interpreter.....if the situation ever arises again.....
or when in a department and I approach an employee with a question and am advised...."I don't speak English"....I will do the same...I'm sick and tired of it.
Also I will not be patronized with just an employee who speaks English and not Spanish....nope I want the same privileges afforded to non English speaking people...I want a bi lingual to interpret for me, lets tie up about 3 of their employees for a period of time, while on their payroll..
The manner on which those clerks responded to you was uncalled for, and many in your place would have demanded an apology at the very least if not having them fired…
I can almost guarantee you; these clerks were not illegal aliens…
If only I could have been present, I swear these things just never happen when I am around…
Why is that? I could have so much fun with people like that…
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/30/2007 5:59:14 AM |
Ah there she goes again!
Lady, foreigners who do not assimilate do not necessarily equal illegal aliens! I know that you don't like the concept of it all, but must you be that reluctant to that fact?
Because it is a fact; I know way too many people who have resided in the US a lot longer than you have been alive, and do not speak one word in English. Yet they are as much citizens as you are…
Whether legal or illegal, there is much more to assimilation than just language and I think that most elderly legal immigrants have made the effort to assimilate in most other ways, even if to their own detriment, they have not learned the English language well, however, those I know who continue to speak their native language, do so because they choose to and still, they at least understand English. I do believe that language assimilation should be the goal of every legal immigrant and I do NOT believe that our government or businesses should be encouraging non-language assimilation by providing a Spanish or any other language option. Case in point, we have had an incident here in Columbus where a child drowned because her father could not communicate with 911 operators. His horrible and probably very regretful experience should be a lesson learned to all immigrants, legal or illegal, who refuse language assimilation. Instead, however, the 911 system is looking into furthering their translation services. IMO, absolutely NOT.
Oh yeah, one more thing, do you speak Spanish? You must, or please explain to me just how the hell were you able to understand signs posted to let everyone know that they do not deny Healthcare to anyone?
I do speak some Spanish, however, as with most 'other than English' signage, the English version is usually given along with the other languages. I suppose at this point American's should be grateful for that. There has been a big debate on this subject up in suburb of Detroit Michigan where businesses are refusing to make their signage in English. This, of course, could have deadly consequences as well. 911 operators are the biggest opponents as they are having difficulty when language becomes a barrier to finding exact locations during emergencies. Can you read speak and read chinese, how about arabic?
Perhaps you would have spoken for the blonde lady? Yeah the one that was born here, but just happened to have lost a job recently not having been able to get down to social services which she stated was in her immediate plans to apply for Medical benefits…
Though, I very much doubt that you would have for the one that was Hispanic and was in fact an illegal alien…
Correct. Only I would have spoken up for the person who was here legally, as opposed to the one here illegally, especially if the legal person had to wait hours upon hours to be seen for medical treatment because the line ahead of her was full of illegal aliens. Would I have determined the difference between the two based on skin and hair color? No. However, I probably would have found either of them suspect if they were unable to speak English AND requesting 'free' medical services. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/30/2007 9:30:54 AM | If other countries around the world expect/demand foreigners to know their language when visiting/living in their country, I would think the US should in fact do the same.
This bi-lingual PC crap that is happening in this country smacks of biasness to the third degree on so many levels.
Why do we have a variety of things here in the US that are in English and in Spanish when Spanish is not even one of the 3 or 4 lanuages mostly used in the world.
Why not Arabic, Mandarin and French? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/2/2007 12:11:53 AM | Yes....yes....yes.... basic English skills should be required.
Here's something my friends and I do. We make up an easy (for us to learn) bogus Language that only we understand. When in the midst of those who insist on speaking their Language in business dealings, as clerks, etc. we start our jabbering and look at them as if we expect them to fully understand what we are saying. Hands on hip with disgusted looks we have.
Then, we summon for a manager in pretend broken English and issue a complaint against the clerk, etc. Works like a charm!
(We tried complaining in correct English and went ignored...but, in this bogus foreign sounding language...then, the complaint in broken English, we are afforded full respect). Sad but true. Try it.
THEN... issue an official complaint (in proper English) to the Corporation Headquarters.
1. The clerk has already gotten in trouble by the manager.
2. The manager then gets in trouble by Corp. for being rude to us for speaking English.
... unfortunately it's funny as maddening/aggravating as it is. | |
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SISL
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Joined: 2/20/2007
Msg: 90 | |
| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/2/2007 5:19:33 AM | Yes, for citizenship, and other things as well, such as voting. It's ridiculous to promote multi-culturism to the exclusion of a shared (and valuable) American culture.
We Americans have every right to declare ourselves special---We are the GREAT HOPE of mankind, a new TYPE of government, and society.
Among the hundreds of languages used on the planet, English is BEST, for many reasons. English itself is very, very adaptable and "multi-cultural"----borrowing words as needed from other cultures and langauges. "Boondocks"--is a Filipino word, there are hundreds more examples of this.
I myself am semi-bilingual, very proficient in Spanish, but I realize the limitations of it, English is a far more dynamic and useful language.
To a very great extent, we are unable to think that which we can not put into words, and English allows much more of that.
I am sure I will be jummped-on for this opinion----in English of course. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/2/2007 9:13:30 AM | What is more concerning to me is the amount of immigrants who do not wish to learn English. Ultimately, we are all the product of immigration, however, the desire to "become" American has subsided greatly in today's society. When my great-great-grandparents came to this country, there was a mad rush to learn English and fit in as "true" Americans. In fact, many immigrants tried hard to mask their accents for this very reason as well.
Now, I don't find anything wrong with people embracing their cultural backgrounds and I do believe that those lessons in heritage should be passed down to our children. I find it highly concerning, though, that the immigration that our nation was founded upon has turned from a means of unification to one of separation among our people. And thus, yes, I do believe that basic English language skills should be required of all individuals applying for legal citizenship in the United States. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/2/2007 4:44:08 PM |
Yes, for citizenship, and other things as well, such as voting. It's ridiculous to promote multi-culturism to the exclusion of a shared (and valuable) American culture.
Diversity need to go; I agree wholeheartedly. There is only one culture lady; human beings! For which the expectations indeed never disappoint...
We Americans have every right to declare ourselves special---We are the GREAT HOPE of mankind, a new TYPE of government, and society.
You are not serious are ya?
Among the hundreds of languages used on the planet, English is BEST, for many reasons. English itself is very, very adaptable and "multi-cultural"----borrowing words as needed from other cultures and langauges. "Boondocks"--is a Filipino word, there are hundreds more examples of this.
It is the most spoken language throughout the world. The best? I just don't see how you would arrive at that conclusion...
I myself am semi-bilingual, very proficient in Spanish, but I realize the limitations of it, English is a far more dynamic and useful language.
Is that really a word?
To a very great extent, we are unable to think that which we can not put into words, and English allows much more of that.
Do I have to?
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/2/2007 4:48:02 PM |
Correct. Only I would have spoken up for the person who was here legally, as opposed to the one here illegally, especially if the legal person had to wait hours upon hours to be seen for medical treatment because the line ahead of her was full of illegal aliens. Would I have determined the difference between the two based on skin and hair color? No. However, I probably would have found either of them suspect if they were unable to speak English AND requesting 'free' medical services.
Compassion anyone?
Anyway, so I guess we have determined that the two are a must for an illegal alien right; language and skin color?
Hands down; I guess you really don't need to travel outside the US to find human decay huh?
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/3/2007 3:53:59 AM | Anyway, so I guess we have determined that the two are a must for an illegal alien right; language and skin color?
What illegal alien rights?
Illegal alien is not a race, much as you'd like to continue to make it one. If you haven't heard, the race card isn't working and most have moved on to call me a restrictionist. I'm insulted by neither. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/3/2007 8:43:13 AM | | I agree with every thing you said -- well done. I want to add one more point. Basic English language skills should be required for legal citizenship, because we are a country of diversity -- race, ethnicity, religion, politics, and etc. We need one common bond and the logical one would be language. Therefore, again, basic English language skills should be required for legal citizenship. | |
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| Esparanto
Posted: 6/3/2007 1:51:16 PM | If I were to start my own country, I'd require everybody to speak Esparanto, the world's only language designed by researchers from the ground up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esparanto
And, no, I don't speak it
As for Canada, immigrants should probably have a functional knowledge of either English or French, depending on which part of the country they intend to live in. | |
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| Esparanto
Posted: 6/3/2007 3:20:46 PM | OH NO........You don't mean or think we should all bend over and kiss their ars's....shucks if they were expected to know something about assimilating....they might feel discriminated against.....
We are expected to make them feel special and different....you know... | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/5/2007 5:10:37 PM |
My post: Anyway, so I guess we have determined that the two are a must for an illegal alien right; language and skin color?
Your response: What illegal alien rights?
Illegal alien is not a race, much as you'd like to continue to make it one. If you haven't heard, the race card isn't working and most have moved on to call me a restrictionist. I'm insulted by neither.
Mrs. Gibson:
I apologize; I should have typed the question mark after the word right. It was more of am I correct sort of question. It was certainly not written to imply that these individuals have any rights whatsoever.
Oh well, chalk it up to the fact that I am an immigrant…
I do have a question; let's pretend that you see me somewhere speaking to a person who is only able to speak Spanish, given my country of origin and my appearance indeed reflects so, would you think I am an illegal alien, I wonder…
If you did, I still wouldn't think you are racist or anything of the sort. Whatever gave you the impression that I was using the race card? No, I don't use the race card, never have, and never will.
I just flat out refuse to believe that anyone can dislike a person entirely based on demographics…
However, you tend to speak as a person who can make up her mind about an individual just based on physical appearances though, therefore you cannot be objective while discussing anything based on anyone who doesn't look like you, as I have said previously. You will pick the few that will represent that of which supports or defies your prejudices and make these the representative of his/her class.
Prejudiced is indeed a limitation of many, racism is not really something you see much these days…
PS: The objective was not to insult you, it never will be. However, should something I say insult you, I guarantee you this will not change my mind about what I have said. If all it takes is words to insult you, well that certainly is your problem not mine…
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 6/5/2007 8:22:35 PM | after reading most of the posts here, it is still unclear, why? what would be the real point for that kind if imposed rule? this 'english-speaking-nation' will pretty soon be a language minority - like it or not, that is The Fact (check census data)
language proficiency IS required for citizenship (there is a test, and it is about minimal ability to say, not even write)
language proficiency in most of this country IS required for decent living (not though, if you live in Koreatown in LA, somewhere on Bowery in NY, or in parts of Chicago - places where your landlord, your boss, your car dealer, your grocer... speak whatever you speak and could care less for anything less then that)
& if you want to go to college, just check all .edu requirements, english is there, on the top (let alone all the papers you need to write to pass...)
it seems that many are trying to connect some imaginary "common culture" of this place to currently main spoken language here. culture of what? melting pot? ethnic enclaves? last names that end in -uez, -ich, -ng?
relax. your toyota will, for next few years at least. still speak to you in english (there is a spanish version too though). your garment will still fit nicely on those english speaking pecks (no matter that it was made by different size-d people somewhere in Macau). your fruits and veggies will never talk to you (because if they did, they would drive you nuts with all words they learned from south of the border pickers, the only people that pick them for you), and soccer will never intrude on lacrosse (there is both england-based, and south-america based cable for that one)
you are surrounded by Spanish speaking people? move to Denmark - they all speak english, but don't give citizenship to anyone not born there | |
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