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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/18/2007 12:20:14 PM | Sure........ Let's ignore the entire immigration issue and continue to give our nation away. Let's live in a country where the citizens speaking the language of the nation are now the minority.
People want to immigrate to America for what it is, the land of opportunity. Let's not **stardize what this great country is all about my allowing a passive take over of our country.
Our country is slowly and passsively being taken over by this wave of hispanic immigration. Had an armed force of 12 million crossed our borders and taken over our towns as this wave of immigrants has the entire country would be up in arms and our troops would be rallied. However, since they are unarmed we have allowed wave after wave of them to INVADE our country and start to erode the very social pillars this country is built upon.
We have been so worried about trampling upon the rights of these illegal immigrants that we have, in fact, mitigated our own rights. Quite frankly immigrants that are here illegally do not have anything other than basic human rights and the right to a speedy trial.
Let's keep America the America we all love. I, for one, do not want to become Northern Mexico which is where we are headed if immigration continues unchecked. At this point I would consider moving to Mexico as in the near future there will be fewer Mexicans there than in America.......
Go figure........... | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/26/2007 6:08:06 PM | | I agree with you totally optimistically cynical....seems like we had a major thread these past couple of weeks on English as a Second language and has now been deleted, most likely because I for one was called a bigot and racist and jumped back and told the people that do not live in America to worry about their own state/country, cause if you dont live here you will never understand what we go through, especially with the illegal immigrants | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/27/2007 2:45:18 PM |
I agree with you totally optimistically cynical....seems like we had a major thread these past couple of weeks on English as a Second language and has now been deleted, most likely because I for one was called a bigot and racist and jumped back and told the people that do not live in America to worry about their own state/country, cause if you dont live here you will never understand what we go through, especially with the illegal immigrants
Threads get deleted also when you stray off topic. Sort of as you are doing right now...
Look at the thread's title: Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Come on now, there are plenty threads going on regarding illegal immigration, given your extensive knowledge in the matter, you should visit these, I am sure they will be grateful for your priceless contributions... Maybe, maybe not...
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/27/2007 3:50:24 PM | | I didnt go off topic, My first words were agreeing with someon on this post....to pacify your little mind and since I do believe you went off topic by berating me, I believe that yes immigrants should be required to have the basic ENGLISH language skills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/27/2007 5:03:58 PM |
I didnt go off topic, My first words were agreeing with someon on this post....to pacify your little mind and since I do believe you went off topic by berating me, I believe that yes immigrants should be required to have the basic ENGLISH language skills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you! Now was that so hard?
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/27/2007 11:58:31 PM | re., message # 26: Right on, Froggy!
Your remarks remind me of the discourse during a version of this thread from last week. One person, in particular was expressing her rather agressive opinion against use of the Spanish language in the US. At that time, I noted that there was some irony in demanding that others speak a language that oneself did not command.
At the very least, I check my writing and spelling because it is gesture of respect to those reading it.... sort of like swallowing one's food before opening the mouth to talk. Also, it doesn't hurt the credibility of one's words....
Is language automatically synonymous with patriotism? During the US Civil War, there was an officer on the Union side, Sigel, who was a German immigrant. Sigel was actually a lousy strategist, and lost more battles than he won. But, he was still promoted to the rank of general! That is because he was very good a recruiting German immigrants to fight for the Union side. Indeed, the slogan amongst his recruits was "I fight mit Sigel!"
One of the things that I greatly appreciate about living in Canada (as a foreigner) is its cultural diversity - as opposed to homogeneity. It is culturally and intellectually enriching. It is a shame that not more US-Americans are able to overcome their insecurity and xenophobia.
Let's keep America the America we all love. Who is "we all"? AND: the world will change, regardless of whether or how any of us want it to.
G. User
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 5:35:11 AM | | OMG, me thinks generic is typing about me with the spellin and grammar...tooooo bad and oh so funny..as I said before the point is I type, speak and read English in an English Country, where it should be made legal for all that wants to become a citizen...I would never be so presumtious to berate others for "there mispeling", as long as they were trying to work with the languge skills......I would never go to another country without understanding and being able to work with their language at least to get by on...and I sure in the hell would not move to a foreign country without learning their laws, ways and language first.....To be a Citizen of the US, it should be required to know the basic skills of the English language, to be able to say "The Pledge of Allegiance" to read and write "The Declaration of Independance"...since we do have to learn that anyway in our grade schools...you come here for better opportunity and independance then work with us and not against us.....all you from another country that is so against us with this legalization, you move down here and try to work, communicate, live with the ones that dont even want to try and learn the language skills and see if your opinion changes...in this day and age there is no reason for everyone to learn to speak basic English since it is the number one language of the world.......so lets here it for making it required!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......and if i forgot to capitalize, dot my eyes, put a puntuation in, spell the wrong way, bite me cuz I did it on purpose...at least its in English and readable | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 5:53:10 AM |
OMG, me thinks generic is typing about me with the spellin and grammar...tooooo bad and oh so funny..as I said before the point is I type, speak and read English in an English Country, where it should be made legal for all that wants to become a citizen...I would never be so presumtious to berate others for "there mispeling" Jesus, I wonder why!?
and if i forgot to capitalize, dot my eyes, put a puntuation in, spell the wrong way, bite me cuz I did it on purpose...at least its in English and readable
Sure you did. I like the word "if" in that sentence, like you're not quite sure. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 6:26:48 AM |
Charles dear...do you not know what sarcasm is????? and being facetious?????...if you have nothing to say on the topic just shut up!!!!!
This isn't the O'Reilly Factor (which I'm sure you adore). You can't simply tell me to shut up and cut me off.
You asked for my input, so here it is...
I don't think the English Language is such a precious sensitive flower that it can't survive in the USA without legislated protection. I think that while first generation immigrants sometimes struggle with English, their children do not. I believe that many of our Ancestors came here speaking German, French, English, Ukrainian, Chinese....
...despite this, in the end both Canada and USA have a vast English speaking majority. Our media is English based, our government for the most part is ran on English (with the exception of some parts of Canada).
So in summation, my opinion is that we have bigger things to worry about. Like education reform. So the second, third, and 99th generation can spell sufficiently well that my non-picky (hell I make mistakes!) eyes don't start to bleed when I read their posts on web forums. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 10:00:30 AM | If English is NOT the official language of your state, its time to contact your state government and get a bill passed making it such. Kansas just passed a bill and English is now our official state language.......It does pay to get actively involved, if people want things changed.....We spoke out and they heard us.....
Also, the American people spoke and our federal legislators heard us....the bill in the US Senate giving amnesty to 12 to 20 million illegals....was defeated today. The new report stated that the issue will most likely not come back up for debate until after the 2008 elections. A HUGE DEFEAT FOR BUSH........
One Senator had said in a news report, he had received 22,000 Fax's and emails and only 2oo supported this bill and they were for the most part, all from one cluster of a church faction, helping the illegals. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 11:51:17 AM | | Good for you Whisper...I know pahrump, nv tried with the pure English and all hell broke loose, so I dont know what will happen after that escapade..English should be made the mandatory language in the US period, if people want to live here then go by our laws, just as we would with their own country | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 3:55:09 PM |
..I would never go to another country without understanding and being able to work with their language at least to get by on...and I sure in the hell would not move to a foreign country without learning their laws, ways and language first...
Well, I guess we could shut the door on that one huh? I mean you went to school to learn your native language and well, not for anything but learning what you know has taken you a lifetime, trust me girl, language skills aren't your strength...
Learning the English language should be one of your main priorities as an immigrant, whether it should be made the official language of the US is entirely another matter. Considering that this would indeed apply to natives along with immigrants, and well the above example is a sign that our education system has become clearly decadent. I would say that the priority on that issue is extremely higher than making English the official language of the US... Just a thought...
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 4:09:19 PM | | speaking and typing on here is one thing...but in person I can be very eloquent, logical, and definately know my abc's and probably could spell better than 80 percent of the people on here....but that is my choice to use it here or not, and I really dont care how you or anyone feel girl....I stand my ground that English should be made the Primary language and every immigrant should be able to speak, read and write English before they get citizenship | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 4:27:17 PM | English was the first language for a long time. Before the libs got some influence on the laws and helped to change that fact, for a long time it was expected of you as a immigrant by those who were citizens of this country who either A. themselves arrived knowing how to speak english or B. they learned how to speak it soon after becoming a resident/citizen they also expected the immigrant to learn the language as they had.
It was the right thing to do and people did it. It was mostly an un-written code of law that to be a part of this country, YOU LEARNED THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE if you wanted a job that almost always required english so the boss would understand you and vice-versa.
The libs changed that. The libs decided (essentially) that it was ok that immigrants who came to this country DID NOT have to learn the english language. They decided that the American goverment/people should bow to the fact that because of our freedoms we have here, it was wrong and unjust to expect a person who did not know but a few words of english (if that many) to take time and learn the language.
The libs saw an enterprising situation here that would create jobs for all involved. They would establish interpreters! While they were at it lets make certain that companies selling their products write certain pieces of information in various languages at the American citizens expense. Have you not wondered how those companies pay for all that extra paper and ink to write things in two to six languages? The consumer pays for it each time you buy a product with all that extra writing on it. The consumer essentially pays for the interpreters that help the companies producing the languages and who knows what else.
There should never of been any question of what is the primary language in America. It should never be second or equal to any language. If you come to this country you should want to learn the language. If you want to come to this country and you don't want to learn english......YOUR THE PROBLEM.
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 5:40:48 PM |
English was the first language for a long time. Before the libs got some influence on the laws and helped to change that fact, for a long time it was expected of you as a immigrant by those who were citizens of this country who either A. themselves arrived knowing how to speak english or B. they learned how to speak it soon after becoming a resident/citizen they also expected the immigrant to learn the language as they had.
It was the right thing to do and people did it. It was mostly an un-written code of law that to be a part of this country, YOU LEARNED THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE if you wanted a job that almost always required english so the boss would understand you and vice-versa.
The libs changed that. The libs decided (essentially) that it was ok that immigrants who came to this country DID NOT have to learn the english language. They decided that the American goverment/people should bow to the fact that because of our freedoms we have here, it was wrong and unjust to expect a person who did not know but a few words of english (if that many) to take time and learn the language.
The libs saw an enterprising situation here that would create jobs for all involved. They would establish interpreters! While they were at it lets make certain that companies selling their products write certain pieces of information in various languages at the American citizens expense. Have you not wondered how those companies pay for all that extra paper and ink to write things in two to six languages? The consumer pays for it each time you buy a product with all that extra writing on it. The consumer essentially pays for the interpreters that help the companies producing the languages and who knows what else.
There should never of been any question of what is the primary language in America. It should never be second or equal to any language. If you come to this country you should want to learn the language. If you want to come to this country and you don't want to learn english......YOUR THE PROBLEM.
Evidence for this entire post?
Zero. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 6:59:06 PM | Charles, we've bantered before! You apparently are still shorting yourself on certain aspects of education that can be obtained from any local library or knowlegable liberal. I won't spend time re-explaining my post to you. As an example, if you haven't lived in the southwest or studied what has been happening for a few decades in that region that deals with the spanish/english war of which should be a first and primary language, then you shouldn't even be posting.
Immigrants (aliens) coming to this continent, since the Spanish made their presence felt, they MADE the natural residents of these three America's learn their language. We're you aware of that? Probably not. Well now you know it. Natives of Canada were forced to learn french and then english. French became a primary language at first. Their own native tongues quickly took a back seat. The same happened in the US. Were you aware of that? Did you know the Natives of the area called the USA were FORCED to learn the english language? Did you know that those natives forced to go to white schools were beaten for speaking in their own tongue? Did you know on the reservations if a white person came among natives they were EXPECTED to revert to speaking broken english and not their own language? The military became parinoid when the natives spoke in their native tongue, plans of up risings and all that they feared. So they would beat them for not talking english if they spoke.
Essentially English was forced upon the native inhabitants and it slowly became a first language. That doesn't mean doing that was correct. But it was accepted as the decades turned into centuries. Then a time came when english became accepted as the first language and all other second to it. Since your not old enough to know anything about this past and are definetly un-read of it, do some reading of the history of the english language take over of the Americas. Then do some reading of the acceptance of the english language as a second language in world wide countries and why they have accepted it more then other languages as a second language.
Most Americans do not want to enter any kind of a store and have to search among five different languages to find the one written in english to explain about the product and it's price, etc.
A tradition is in place about the english language in America and the greatest percentage of Americans do not want the libs to continue changing things so there will not be a primary language in the USA at all which is their objective.
Anchorage is melting pot of languages in this small city of about 300,000. We have 100 different dialects. But english is the first language any where you go here. Immigrants go to english classes here. They go because they want to learn. If American libs have their way, no immigrant will ever have to learn any language but the one they speak. The libs will force the American tax payers by bills/laws they will push to get passed in congress to foot the bills that would require change in how all products and services and reading material are sold and displayed and printed.
Libs hate un-written rules/laws that the large majority of America accept and live by, especially when they feel a 'injustice' is happening.
If you come to America to live, you learn the language english. Plain and simple to most. If you don't your the problem  PS...I hope you have enjoyed this brief lesson? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 10:36:15 PM | Charles dear...do you not know what sarcasm is????? and being facetious?????...if you have nothing to say on the topic just shut up!!!!! (1) I agree with Charles. Furthermore, I gave up trying to follow your most recent proclamations after reading three lines. There was no structure and no organization to your writing. That is in addition to the grammar, whether that be intentional or otherwise. (2) There is even less excuse for rudeness than there is for poor grammar and spelling.
By the way, after looking at your profile, I would point out that I have already lived (as opposed to visiting) in all of the places that you would like to visit, apparently. It would be to your advantage to travel abroad and experience the attitudes of other cultures towards second languages. I have even lived in a country having three official languages -none of which was English- while only speaking 1.5 of them- and found it to be a delightful experience. People appreciate it when you try to speak their language and relate to their cultures.
Since you live in Los Vegas, I would also mention that I lived for 13 months in Reno and had no issue with hearing Spanish on a daily basis.
Kansas just passed a bill and English is now our official state language . Isn't that the same place that is a bit challenged by the precepts of scientific logic and thinking?
G. U. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 11:04:59 PM |
Charles, we've bantered before! You apparently are still shorting yourself on certain aspects of education that can be obtained from any local library or knowlegable liberal. I won't spend time re-explaining my post to you. As an example, if you haven't lived in the southwest or studied what has been happening for a few decades in that region that deals with the spanish/english war of which should be a first and primary language, then you shouldn't even be posting.
So in other words you don't have any evidence. But you'll insult me for asking. Great posting style.
Immigrants (aliens) coming to this continent, since the Spanish made their presence felt,
Mexico is in North America, you do know that right?
they MADE the natural residents of these three America's learn their language. We're you aware of that? Probably not.
Really? Did they do attendance on the spanish classes? Call your parents if you didn't show?
Well now you know it. Natives of Canada were forced to learn french and then english. French became a primary language at first. Their own native tongues quickly took a back seat. The same happened in the US. Were you aware of that? Did you know the Natives of the area called the USA were FORCED to learn the english language?
My my my I didn't realize that Mexicans had taken over your education system by force of arms, tell me are they also re-locating your population centers?
Did you know that those natives forced to go to white schools were beaten for speaking in their own tongue? Did you know on the reservations if a white person came among natives they were EXPECTED to revert to speaking broken english and not their own language? The military became parinoid when the natives spoke in their native tongue, plans of up risings and all that they feared. So they would beat them for not talking english if they spoke.
Uhhhh ok, I take it that the military is paranoid when people speak english now? Are you expected to switch to broken spanish when the illegal immigrant cleaning lady works at your house?
Essentially English was forced upon the native inhabitants and it slowly became a first language. That doesn't mean doing that was correct. But it was accepted as the decades turned into centuries. Then a time came when english became accepted as the first language and all other second to it. Since your not old enough to know anything about this past and are definetly un-read of it,
Un-read has got to be the most amusing word to use in a claim of somebodies ignorance I've ever heard.
do some reading of the history of the english language take over of the Americas. Then do some reading of the acceptance of the english language as a second language in world wide countries and why they have accepted it more then other languages as a second language.
Well obviously the dozens of scattered native languages were just as entrenched in North America as English is now.
Most Americans do not want to enter any kind of a store and have to search among five different languages to find the one written in english to explain about the product and it's price, etc.
Yes yes because suddenly there is a huge influx of spanish only labeling. Seems more to me that a lot of Americans would rather just think no other language exists, and are disturbed when they see unfamiliar words.
Anchorage is melting pot of languages in this small city of about 300,000. We have 100 different dialects. But english is the first language any where you go here. Immigrants go to english classes here. They go because they want to learn. If American libs have their way, no immigrant will ever have to learn any language but the one they speak. The libs will force the American tax payers by bills/laws they will push to get passed in congress to foot the bills that would require change in how all products and services and reading material are sold and displayed and printed.
Yah those evil Libs, considering that Republican neoconservatives were totally in charge of the country for the last few years and NOTHING was done about the issue maybe you should look into having a more complicated political view than that of a us vs them mentality which is more suitable to a football match.
Libs hate un-written rules/laws that the large majority of America accept and live by, especially when they feel a 'injustice' is happening.
Well I do agree, liberals do hate injustice. Conservatives seem to wallow in it.
If you come to America to live, you learn the language english. Plain and simple to most. If you don't your the problem PS...I hope you have enjoyed this brief lesson?
It wasn't a lesson, I see poorly thought out illogical neoconservative posts all the time. Nothing new here.
By the way I've a university degree in political science and psychology, I took history as an ellective (because I enjoy reading about it so much on my own time), I know your simplistic us vs them view of the universe makes it so it seems that simply because somebody disagrees with you they must not be informed, but this simply isn't the case.
So stop trying to make the arguement about me, it's childish, and a man of your advanced age should know better. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 11:18:31 PM | generi..."One person, in particular was expressing her rather agressive opinion against use of the Spanish language in the US."
If this statement was directed towards me....let me clarify.....I was trying to do business in a local store. The cashier was speaking on the subject at hand, concerning a request I had made, only in Spanish to a co worker and this continued for some time. I asked her to Please speak in English so I could understand what was happening and I asked her nicely. My upset was with her attitude and sarcastic, patronizing remark back to me and yes I did react to her disrespect and it upset me that she would be dealing with customers in the manner and tone in which she did.
I have no problem with Spanish being spoken between two Spanish speaking people in the privacy of their personal conversations, but in a place of business, while trying to do personal business, being an English speaking person in an English speaking country, it does upset me to be treated in a rude manner by an employee who is rude to the customers.
If it should happen again......I have a solution to handle it the next time.....I will ask for a manager and request a bilingual interpreter and request that they continue the discussion in SPANISH...  | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/28/2007 11:33:48 PM | Montanan76....I thank your for your well written, easily understood post. Very enlightening and well stated. I know some of the history you speak of, so find the explanations you give reasonable and understandable. Thank you for sharing. Peeks my interest in wanting to do further research and gain a better understanding of the History of the English language in our country.
But for the tide of historical events....we might all be speaking SPANISH OR FRENCH IN THE USA. Good post. Do you mind my asking your profession? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship? Posted: 6/29/2007 12:23:14 AM |
But for the tide of historical events....we might all be speaking SPANISH OR FRENCH IN THE USA. Good post. Do you mind my asking your profession?
Well duh, and really, would that be so bad? I mean why is one language ineherently supperior to the other?
Hell if events had happened differently, we could all be speaking chinese.
So?
Anyway you ladies keep being a cheerleader for his posts. One again he didn't do any facts, just a few personal attacks, a few group attacks (those damn Libs!!!) and absolutely 0% factual content. | |
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