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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/10/2008 11:49:50 PM | Wow that post about the flasher in Canada.. wow that's going to haunt me... I'm just gonna say that does not represent all Canadians haha.
Oh and I don't care if they don't speak english and I can't force them to learn, but I should maintain the right to not hire them, have to work for them or with in most jobs due to a lack of communication is going to completely shatter productivity. If you wanna come here and you don't wanna speak the language, that's cool if you're on vacation you might get by, but good luck surviving, I wouldn't last 2 weeks in france, India or China if i didn't speak the language, I dunno why they think we can and will have endless patience for someone who isn't even trying. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/11/2008 3:14:11 AM | | I feel that a somewhat decent grasp of the English language should be mandatory. I also believe English should be made the official language and that our country should stop catoring to the Spanish language. I mean English has been the un-official standard for 200+ years. Why should it change now? Every immigrant in the past was expected to learn English. So, why is that changing now? You don't see me moving to Mexico, refusing to learn Spanish, and expecting everyone to speak English to me, post signs in English for me, etc. If you want to speak Spanish stay in your own country and fix the problems there instead of running away and bring them here. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:00:46 PM | I feel that a somewhat decent grasp of the English language should be mandatory. I also believe English should be made the official language and that our country should stop catoring to the Spanish language.
Of course we'd have to amend the constitution to abolish the first amendment first huh?
Every immigrant in the past was expected to learn English. So, why is that changing now?
Oh really? Who expected them to learn english? You?
You don't see me moving to Mexico, refusing to learn Spanish, and expecting everyone to speak English to me, post signs in English for me, etc.
So what? Are you everybody?
If you want to speak Spanish stay in your own country and fix the problems there instead of running away and bring them here.
Surely you are not suggesting that a naturalized hispanic American who does not speak english should not call this his own country are you? Are you really suggesting that? Really? There are two oft repeated words in your post here. Spanish and Mexico. Never German, Germany or Swedish, Sweden, Danish, Dutch. The Swiss speak three languages, German, French and Italian depending on the area you are in. Do you have problems with imigrants who don't speak english only when their skin color is not similar to your own? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/11/2008 11:11:50 PM | Firstly, the constutution was entirely written in English. That has to say something right there. Secondly, it was expected in the past that you either know English upon arrival, or learn it quickly once you got here, or chances are you would either be socially-osterized or beat to a bloody pulp by one of numerous gangs.
Anyhow it's not just "hispanics" I was speaking of, they are just the greatest example and most numerous. Plus, you cannot really compare Mexicans, with Europeans. Almost all Europeans learn English from the 2nd grade onwards in school. It's mandatory, because it is the language of business, and it is highly beneficial to know. Even though I would be more comfortable with a northern European immigrant versus a hispanic one, or one from anywhere else, because in general people prefer the company of their own and there is nothing wrong with it. It's only white people that get made to feel quilty for it, so we let everyone else walk all over us. But, this is not the point. Whether you are from Mexico, Germany, Sweden, China, Argentina, or where ever, it would be in the best interest of your mother country to stay there and push for social change if you are unhappy, or don't like how your country is, instead of running away to another country, bringing some of your problems with you. And it's not just people trying to run away due to political or social reasons, but for the possibility to make more money than they would in their own country. It makes me sick to hear of people from other countries, such as Africa, or India, who study hard and get medical or doctorate degrees, just to flee to America afterwards, when it is THEIR country that NEEDS them the most! | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:57:17 AM | Firstly, the constutution was entirely written in English. That has to say something right there.
Now that is funny. The constitution is not entirely written in english. "America", was the name given to this continent by the spanish discoverers who spoke only, you guessed it, spanish. They spoke not a word of english for the most part. So fully a quarter of the words in the legal name of our country is spanish. What you personally feel that the constituitions should say is of absolutely no relevance when speaking of the constitutionality of laws restricting in any way what language a person in this country chooses to speak or not speak. What the constitution in fact does say on the subject is precisely this:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the FREEDOM OF SPEECH, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Obviously I capitalized "freedom of speech" to add emphasis. You'll notice that nowhere in the first amendment, or any other place in the constitution are the words "english language" to be found.
Secondly, it was expected in the past that you either know English upon arrival, or learn it quickly once you got here, or chances are you would either be socially-osterized or beat to a bloody pulp by one of numerous gangs.
That is your arguement? Gang rule of our country to keep mexicans from speaking spanish?
Anyhow it's not just "hispanics" I was speaking of
Yes it was only hispanics you were speaking of. You got caught in an oft used game of blaming all of our troubles on Mexicans and now you are back peddling trying to divert your attention from your original racist remarks. Copy and post anything you can find from the post I commented on where you speak of anyone not of Mexican descent who only speaks Spannish?
Plus, you cannot really compare Mexicans, with Europeans. Almost all Europeans learn English from the 2nd grade onwards in school. It's mandatory, because it is the language of business
That is a completely incorrect and blatantly false statement. If there is such a law mandating english in europe, a bunch of folks are ignoring it completely. Don't know how often you have been to Europe but I have visited there for buisness no less than twice a month on average for a quarter century. I don't know the percentage of the population of Europe that speaks only thier native tongue, neither do you, but I would venture to say that it is indeed comparable to such numbers in Mexico. Besides, what does people speaking english in thier own foreign country have to do with english being made mandatory here for immigrants?
Even though I would be more comfortable with a northern European immigrant versus a hispanic one, or one from anywhere else, because in general people prefer the company of their own and there is nothing wrong with it.
Nothing wrong with in your morals perhaps. In mine it reeks of racism. And just curious, who would qualify as people you would consider your own? What makes northern europeans more preferable than say someone born in the US of hispanic heritage ? The brown skinned American was born in the same country you were and pledges alegiance to the same flag as you do. Why is he not one of your own when a foreign national is?
It's only white people that get made to feel quilty for it
I feel no guilt. I suppose I would if I possessed a racist and bigoted mindset however.
Whether you are from Mexico, Germany, Sweden, China, Argentina, or where ever, it would be in the best interest of your mother country to stay there and push for social change if you are unhappy, or don't like how your country is, instead of running away to another country, bringing some of your problems with you.
Whoa nelly there. My anscesters immigrated here from germany, one of the countries you used in your example. And they came here as i understand it with a great many problems and burdens. How about your family? Can it not be traced back to having immigrated from some country other than the US? That would surprise me unless you are of native american descent.
It makes me sick to hear of people from other countries, such as Africa, or India, who study hard and get medical or doctorate degrees, just to flee to America afterwards, when it is THEIR country that NEEDS them the most!
I'll bet you actually think that your country needs you the most. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/12/2008 10:21:59 AM | AMERIGO VESPUCCI IS WHERE THE NAME COME'S FROM...
Animated by this energy, and perhaps aware that he had made one too many enemies at home, Vespucci left Florence in 1491 for Seville, a Spanish boomtown. There he formed a partnership with a fellow Florence businessman named Gianotto Berardi. Berardi was then heavily promoting an Italian navigator named Columbus, whom Vespucci would subsequently take as his role model in the exploring business. Both men, according to Fernandez-Armesto, were chronic liars. Both men realized that discovery was less important than spin and took care to publicize their version of events.
Vespucci's spin on his two voyages to South America in 1499 and 1501 convinced a lot of people in Europe that he was a genius pilot and stargazer. No one knows, in fact, how much piloting he actually did in these two very mercantile voyages. His primary function on board seems to have been as an expert on markets and a representative of the financial backers of the expedition.
But writings about his voyage, particularly the Soderini Letter, convinced a mapmaker named Martin Waldseemuller to label the vast area now known as Brazil as "America." ("America" being the feminine form of "Americus," the Latinized version of "Amerigo.") The map was attached to a book on geography published in 1507 that turned out to be a phenomenal bestseller. Soon, other mapmakers were labelling not just Brazil but both continents in the new world "America." | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:14:09 PM |
A native born can't be compelled to be proficient in the language, but somebody who covets citizenship should have a basic fluency.
You know I've been an amateur scholar of the constitution for about a quarter century now and in all the times I've read it, I cannot find anywhere in the document, specifically the first amendment that is applicable here, mentions any difference in a native born citizen, a naturalized citizen, or anybody else who sets foot on US soil as being at all different from each other. The constitution applies to all that are subject to US law no matter what their status, nationality or origin. If you are within our borders, legally or illegally, the constitution applies equally to all. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/13/2008 3:45:25 AM | I wonder how many Native American languages the OP speaks? Isn't that kinda like the pot calling the kettle black? Europeans come here, commit genocide on the native people and steal their land, then complain later about keeping the nation white. Oh, of course they will spin it as making people speak english, but the root issue is BROWN people moving in after two centuries of immigration preference given to Europeans. Now that that's ended, we need immigration reform NOW!! "OMG! The brown people are coming! The brown people are coming!"
Hell, I know very basic Spanish and I can understand many of the Hispanic immigrants much better than I can understand some of the teenagers born and raised here. Many of our kids are so stupid many could not even READ a test on basic English skills, much less pass it. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/18/2008 2:21:28 PM | Guess what? I am back...
YES! ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!! If you cannot speak our language, don't live off my taxes dammit!
HRWild,
I have a couple of questions for you; how does the inability to speak the English language translate into living off your tax money?
Please don't misunderstand me; I do agree with the fact that our government is facilitating the current situation by spending ridiculous amount of money to accommodate immigrants, and I know damn well it isn't coming out of their own personal bank accounts; therefore, it is safe to say that we are paying for it.
Is that what you meant on your statement above? If so, here are a few more questions:
Now if these individuals spoke English, wouldn't we be eliminating the cost of this absurd commodity as is interpreting for immigrants? Consequentially, they wouldn't be living off your taxes right? 
Please do answer; I really want to know how you are going to handle this one…
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/18/2008 5:20:24 PM | I say we should just outlaw all words that aren't English!! So we need to change the names of the States of Montana, California, Colorado, etc. Plus all menu's at those "foreign" resturants should all be in English only so I don't feel so stupid saying "I'll have a number 11 please" because I can't say whatever it is.
Also, no more foreigners in the NBA while we're at it......
And lets send that damn statue of liberty back to those whimpy french. That'll show em. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/18/2008 5:23:46 PM | I say yes.
When I see illegals & legal Adults that do not even comprehend or understand how to administer medication prescribed to their own sick children..it gets dangerous..
Where I work we have young children..very young that will have to stand by their parents & explain what is going on..what is wrong with them..what the medicine is..when to take it..how to take it & on & on..in my opinion yes they should learn a grasp on some english words & phrases besides no problem & yes all the time.. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/19/2008 7:39:34 AM | | There already is a requirement to learn basic English before you get your citizenship. America is not that dumb. And most hispanic immigrants want to learn English and assimilate into American culture because we know there are many who don't want us here regardless of what they say. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/20/2008 12:03:03 AM |
most hispanic immigrants want to learn English and assimilate into American culture because we know there are many who don't want us here regardless of what they say.
Is that an assumption or can you present facts?
I go on record......I have no problem with Hispanics, Asians or any foreign born persons who come to the USA legally and wish to assimilate into our culture, even if they wish to maintain their customs and culture in their communities.
What I do have a problem with is law breakers, people who show disrespect to our country, our laws and our people by ignoring our laws and coming here illegally or those who project a feeling of entitlement and a right to disrespect our laws and country as a whole. And people who whine and cry foul, because we ask them to leave and come back through legal avenues.
I have no respect and emencely become upset towards anyone who steals from any of the American citizens. It's a matter of intregrety, honor and respect. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/20/2008 1:05:30 AM | English is a really cool language in that it absorbs words from other languages and makes them its own. So to stop the English language from growing would be damn near impossible but I guess passing a law that says todays version of English is all the language that is would be a good start.
So what do we do with all the words like a previous poster said that are not English like Texas, Sargent, Lox, every freaking scientific term for anything their all in Latin so they would be illegal, almost every medical term Latin again, hell I think a bunch of the law stuff is in Latin also, Kind of sounds like a flat Earth argument. How about Papaya will we change its name to an English word.
Oh and the big one Chocolate by any other name just would not be chocolate. Thats sure to get some people upset. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/20/2008 6:20:45 AM | Required? No.
But...it should be in their best interests to do so. Where is the motivation to do so when we accomodate them by offering publications(and so much more), financed by taxpayer money?
Go to your Dept of Human Services, Dept of Motor Vehicles, etc and see how many languages are accomodated. Live in a foreign country, be expected to learn the language of your host. If citizenship is the goal, then at the point of taking the oath, one is no longer a guest and one should expect of themselves, a working proficiency of the language spoken in the land one adopts as their own. When and why did it become unreasonable to think so?
No official language in the USA? It's the language we speak here by default. English is the international language of business. Sums it up for me. | |
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mj999
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Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 222 | |
| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/20/2008 8:10:26 AM | Yes.
I think an applicant for citizenship should demonstrate a basic knowledge of English as well as basic knowledge of the country and the responsibilities and privileges that come with citizenship. Of course there would have to be discretion to waive the requirements on compassionate grounds for certain groups such as the elderly and any other group that would face a challenge in passing a knowledge test. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/24/2008 3:52:29 PM | | jrbogie has no idea of the First Amendment...but there already is a requirement to read and write English to be a US citizen. The problem is we are now seeing an explosion of Spanish speaking ppl coming to the US. Many are not seeking citizenship. The question is should it be English Only? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/26/2008 12:56:34 PM | | To be a legal citizen, yes, basic English skills should be learned to function in our society. With that said, people should have the right to speak their native language at home and with friends. We are after all a free society and we do have freedom of speech, including what language to speak in. The diversity of the people who come here to the US makes this nation an interesting place in which to live. I can count among many of my friends people who are immigrants. One of my friends who is now up in Heaven was originally from Pakistan. I miss him terribly. What about all the delightful restaurants that bring us different cuisines from all around the world? Many of those are owned by immigrants. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 1/27/2008 9:10:28 AM | | designingwoman, good post! You actually get it...I live on a street in Houston Texas that is known for its ethnic flair. Many of the Mediterranean & Asian & Indian grocery's & restaurant's are on my street. I can go across the street to Vietnam Coast for some home cooked Vietnamese or Chinese cuisine or walk to the strip center next to my apartment & visit Shawarma King . If I want pupusa or empanadas there is a great Salvadoran/Columbian place a block away. Not to mention a half dozen Mexican taquerias. This is after all Houston Texas..LOL All these places are owned by hard working, tax paying immigrants. They speak to me in English yet they should be allowed to speak their native language as well. Free speech is a wonderful thing. That said, Basic English language skills should be learned. | |
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