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| Incel
Posted: 5/6/2007 1:17:23 AM | [ Try committing yourself to pursuing a mainstream, run of the mill, common, conforming hobby. Not dungeons and dragons or the likes of course.]
Why should I take up a pastime that I won't enjoy? If a woman can't deal with the fact that I like geeky things, then I suggest she looks elsewhere. Can you see me playing golf or hanging out in wine bars saying 'okay....yah......oh absolutely'.
Neither can I somehow.
For all my faults - if you want to call them that, I am me, and it's time I stopped pretending to be anything other than I am. I'm fat, bald, and like playing Heroclix ( well make that LOSING Heroclix with a manly and heroic thrust of my jaw). I like my food more than just a little, love loud music, and only wish I had more money so I could be even MORE obnoxious.
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Posted: 5/6/2007 2:20:40 AM | Hello Torquill,
Great reply... And shows that you are truly your own person. I wish we lived a little closer so we could play a round of golf *cough* hehe... I think your great just as you are, i hear geek is sheek. As it turns out i'm loosing my hair too and the bloke who thinks fitting in is a great idea will probably loose his hair to at some point. I'm glad you don't see the use in becoming another empty husk running about trying to be something they are not just to be loved.
When you do find someone they will Love you because you are you and who else would you want them to love any how?? Your getting a bit of a fan club.... i'm one
crazylilting | |
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Posted: 5/6/2007 8:14:43 AM | Crazy,
I was simply suggesting he do things that will allow him to meet more people to interact with that may be other than the type of people he is around now. Maybe broaden his horizons, open up new doors and assist in his developing a different network of "friends". I think the more diverse the people you are with the beter your life experience. Clearly the friends he has now are too "busy" as he puts it. By going mainstream he opens alot more doors in my opinion.
I too wish the best for him, just trying to suggest alternate means for interactions. | |
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Posted: 5/6/2007 9:49:09 AM | hello singlemaninmd,
Don't get me wrong i do understand that you were suggesting these things out of care and concern. However when we sugest things without knowing someone we may as well not give any advice at all. For some people getting into public as you suggest would be tiring and draining and be even more depressing then isolation. It can take a lot of mental effort to be in public. I can go out in public much more now i live in wales, when i lived in Canada it was horrid going out in public. The people here in Wales are much more gentle and easy to talk to then in Canada.
And depression is much more complex then just saying be positive or tell yourself to be positive. Its a bit of a mockery to say things like that, like when a person is depressed that they should just be able to put on a smile and their world will change. Like people who are depressed want to be depressed? haven't told themselves how silly it is to feel the way they do... and beat themselves up for being so ridiculous.
No one wants to see someone else suffer. And the first thing we want to do is run in and fix things. And because we know how our life works so well we want to share our life instead of taking the time to understand our fellow human, find out their strengths and likes dislikes and so on. I find that outgoing people are so apt to rush in and fix introverted people by making them more extroverted and its like me saying that an extroverted person needs fixing and should be more introverted and things would be better for them. Hope you didn't take offense to my earlier comments but its a bit of a trigger for me.
crazylilting | |
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Posted: 5/6/2007 12:14:00 PM | No offense taken at all man! I was trying to help out of seeing his posts, just as the others are. I was only responding based on my own experience. I too holed myself up for awhile. I was very negative and did not realize it until a true friend said man cmon. I don't think depression can be overcome simply with meds. I think behavioral changes that effecte attitude can be great exercises. The more you do them the more they become a part of life and soon change occurs. The smile thing or maybe volunteering for elderly people was just a suyggestion. The old folks can set you straight with their experience and sometimes one realizes soon they will be a geezer. This has been sobering to me anyways. I am 42 and do not feel like that at all except like now after push mowing a lawn of 1/2 acre! LOL!
I did not get the impression this gentleman was by any means introverted. You are right I do not know him. I just figured as a fellow metal head, he had to be a bit extroverted. I do wish him the best and I did mean to over simply or underappreciate the feelings you are going through. I do apologize if I did seem to be unsympathetic. | |
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Posted: 5/6/2007 12:38:08 PM | Hello singlemaninmd,
You didn't seem unsympathetic at all, and your last post has some wonderful suggestions with doing something worth while like helping the elderly etc... And clearly you replying again shows just how caring you truly are.
Rock on,
crazylilting | |
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Posted: 5/27/2007 8:30:48 PM | I have put a lot of time and effort into this post and believe it will open your eyes a little and answer some questions as well as raise some.
My background. I am a good looking, intelligent, soldier in the US army. I drive a pickup, ride a motorcycle and am financially stable. I like bars, clubs, parties and drinking. I have an outgoing, risk taking, adrenaline seeking personality. I am fun to be around and love things that make me smile and laugh although I rarely do. I am an involuntary celibate. It is destroying me and my life. I am obsessed with my problem and think about it constantly. I used to want to find that one special girl out there and marry her but now I pretty much just focus on fixing my incel problem. I live every day with the hope that I will be successful and will change my life. If I come to the conclusion that I will not be successful, I will die. I am not attention seeking, this is my life. If you would like to know more read.
I'm an incel and I don't think that most people could understand because they are not in my place. I found this post because I frequently search the internet for information on women, dating and my problem. Posting this gives me the chance to talk about my problem and maybe open some other peoples eyes a little. Torquill I think that we are going through the same thing even though the causes for it are different. I will say one thing. Social skills are a skill. It's something that is learned. That means you can change and fix yourself.
((Right now my roommate who gets laid like a rock star is trying to get me to go out to the clubs. I blew him off because I got tired of going to the clubs and bars night after night month after month and getting NOTHING! lol.))
I went through a phase of looking to others for help. Years ago I told one person that I was having suicidal thoughts etc. I felt I came across as attention seeking and needy(which I was) and never did it again. These people don't understand you dude. You're just seen as attention seeking yada yada. And honestly you might be a little bit. People reach out for attention, help, guidance, reassurance. If they truly cared they would meet you in person and do their best to help you. My roommate cares a little but he has no idea why I'm always alone. He has no idea what my problem is. He doesn't get it.
I will go through phases. I'll go out there and work pretty hard to make friends and get a girl and then after enough failures destroy my self esteem, and confidence I stop because it's too hard and I'm not having any success. After a while my self esteem goes back up and I try again. I might be like this for months at a time.
I have a different view on my life. I don't see my self as a person. I am not a human being. How could I be, I can't even get a girlfriend. The one thing that I want, the only thing from life that I want. And it's such a simple stupid wish or dream for me. Others are having success, what's wrong with me? I see myself like a piece of fruit at the grocery store. Imagine an apple. It sits on the shelf, but because of luck or the randomness of life or whatever it doesn't get bought. No one wants the apple. After a short time it is no longer good and must be thrown away. No amount of self help or self pity will make the apple beautiful and whole again. Maybe I am like the old apple. Maybe I'm so mentally and psychologically messed up that the only option is to throw me away. What if things never get better? What if I go through the rest of my life like this? This isn't life. This isn't living. This is existing and there is a big difference between living and meerly existing. I hate my life and don't want to live this way anymore.
I cannot die, for I am already dead.
"This ain't working. I've been on antidepressants for almost a year now, and whilst it's true, they have helped me with my panic disorder, ( at least that's what I think it was because I have not been diagnosed with anything yet.), I lack the necessary skills needed to attract a partner. I also could not tell if a woman WAS interested in me because I simply do not understand body language at all. My brain simply does not work like other peoples does. " -Torquill
YES!! YES!! YES!! I thought of going on antidepressants but still haven't because I've been afraid that it wouldn't solve my problem with women. I wil continue to focus on my problem of women. It's like when you drive your car and something breaks and it makes an odd noise but the mechanic says "just wear earplugs, that way you can't hear it" Ya, It solves one problem, but it doesn't solve THE problem.
Suicide is not the issue. The issue is that he can't get a girlfriend!!!!!
If you don't leave your room you will continue life the was you are. You gotta get out of the house. Women are social creatures. You must be social to succeed. But then again take my advice lightly for after I'm pretty messed up too.
Oh and I don't believe that myblueshadow is a therapist, and if she is I don't think she is a good one because no therapist would blow off the problems of another person as insignificant, even if it was attention seeking.
rune3 you rock! You are smart and down to earth. "You don't need skills to attract a partner. You need to be able to love and express that love in some way. There are different ways to express and experience love and I think that the main problem most of us have is finding someone who is on the same wavelength as us." ----This however is the most crap I've ever seen. You say this but the truth of the matter is that most women don't even know much of anything about Torquill or my personalities. It just never gets to that point.
singlemaninMD has some good advice.
-----Captain Noass | |
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| Incel
Posted: 5/28/2007 1:02:56 AM | Sadly, Torquill deleted his account a while ago. he was writing messages to the forum which were all just getting deleted as pity-seeking. Given the topics he chose and the way he was lashing out, perhaps this was fair, but it was clear that he was reaching out and sometimes I think fairness is really not enough.
rune3 you rock! You are smart and down to earth. "You don't need skills to attract a partner. You need to be able to love and express that love in some way. There are different ways to express and experience love and I think that the main problem most of us have is finding someone who is on the same wavelength as us." ----This however is the most crap I've ever seen. You say this but the truth of the matter is that most women don't even know much of anything about Torquill or my personalities. It just never gets to that point. I'm not that smart and I'm sure I don't rock. I don't think my comment is crap though. Most women will never get to know someone like Torquill... most women would never be able to appreciate his quirky character in an case so that is no loss for him. Stop shoving all women into the same boat as if there are none who share your problems and difficulties and ways of being.
Believe it or not there are women who don't go about weighing people up on sight and dismissing them as "dating material" just because the don't fit some stereotype. There are women who are completely clueless about how to flirt and women who wouldn't be able to send out or read "signals" if they took a course in the subject. Some of us actually get to know people and are pretty forgiving about the social-skills stuff if we can see that their heart is in the right place. As to how you get to know someone -- well asking women you barely know out on date is not going to work, but it's not the only way to start a relationship. I've never dated... You can get to know people gradually through work, volunteering, college courses, group hobby activities or even the marvellous internet. On the internet what social skills do you need? Genuine respect and compassion for the other person's feeling go far further. If you tell them that you are slow at that kind of thing and that if they want you to know something then they are going to need to tell you rather than hope that you guess, that's straightforward, that's not impossible to deal with....
All women are not like the stereotype you see on TV. The fact that you aren't a social butterfly and can't understand body language is not such a big issue as you think it is. I am pretty clueless about it too, for example. You can learn to be more observant through practice and focusing on being sensitive to the other person, and I think that exercising this focus is very helpful, but learning "skills" just sounds to me like learning how to manipulate people falsely. My ex-bf used to try to interpret my behaviour based on a limited knowledge of stereotypes, a kind of learned social skill, and it caused so many problems, because he was relating to rules of behaviour and interpretation rather than to me as a person who doesn't quite fit in the normal rulebox.
If a woman likes you, really likes you, she wont just flick her hair an expect you to know, if she's got any sense and can truly relate to you. Getting together with my previous boyfriend I listened to him talk for hours upon hours, mostly about technical subjects that would turn most people off very fast, and when I decided it was about time that feelings were got out in the open, I kissed him. If that's too subtle a communication of interest then there are always words. And on the internet, word are all we have, so two people can get to know each other without all the interference of the more subtle additions to communication that add so much and yet can be so misleading too.
Good luck Captain Noass. Most women will never get to know you, but you don't need most women to get to know you: just some of the ones who understand your problems and who will see past them... I do think that trying to take the normal dating route is a mistake if you're not naturally inclined to relate well to people in these situations... but even there you are bound to find women who are also trying to do the same thing and feel just as much like a fish out of water as you do. Just don't pick your nose in public or talk about sex. I agree that these social skills are worth having... | |
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| Incel
Posted: 5/28/2007 5:00:36 PM | Well, guess what? I'm another Incel, and damn proud of it!
There are several people in the world that are alive and happy thanks to me!
Who else here can say the same, apart from the other Incels!
I've learned more from being held back than I ever learned from getting what I wanted!
"We learn more from our failures than our successes."
Shame Torquill is not in contact, but you can't have everything.
But anotherguy23, let's see what we can do.
I found out that on Wikipedia, its also called "Love-Shy". There's even books on it, and a Yahoo Group.
Also, anyone with snide, petty remarks, be warned:
There is already a post here about divorce being one of main causes of suicide in men.
If you are insensitive, its pretty much guaranteed that you'll be cutting to your ex-husband, and you'll be more likely to orphan your own children, than you will hurt an Incel.
It takes an unbelievable level of self-control to handle being Incel in today's society.
It takes intelligence and sensitivity to be Incel.
So if you are insensitive to these guys, you are saying you don't want the best guys for a relationship that you can find, because they are capable, financially stable, loving, faithful, and loads more besides. Your subconscious cannot allow you to reject any person for no reason. If you do, it will come to the logical conclusion that you cannot handle anyone without confidence, and that you therefore prioritise confidence over manners and ability. So you've just convinced your subconscious that you prefer confident, abusive bums over shy, capable, lovers. So that is who your subconscious will make you attracted to, and the worst ones will be the ones you cannot stay away from. So until you adjust your attitude to a more reasonable one, say goodbye to happiness and hello to pain.
As to the idiot with the gene pool problem: we have wars and AIDS for that. Let alone several very nasty diseases.
To be continued... | |
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| Incel
Posted: 5/28/2007 5:21:25 PM | OK, now down to the advice:
Look at the main qualities that men who get women all the time have, but in a positive, moral light:
1. PERSEVERANCE
These guys keep going out, keep talking to women, and keep asking them out. Simple as that. Not too complicated, but very daunting. This requires step 2:
2. SELF-BELIEF
These guys think they are all that. You damn well ought to, from what you wrote. Every day, write out 10 positive things about you, that a woman who is already involved with you would like about you. Then you will. Yes, I know I said IS involved, which needs step 3:
3. ACTING
Treat ALL women like they've already been to bed with you, and loved it! People react to sub-verbal cues, and respond to how you act NOW, not how you are going to be. Once you think of a woman as already your girlfriend, and you act like it, subconsciously she starts to act like it is true, already. You don't need to believe it, you just need to pretend, like its a game. Works, too.
So:
1) Acting like they are going with you, and have already slept with you, will make them do so too, so you'll get positive responses off them, which will start off your self-belief.
2) Writing down 10 positives that women already make them want to stay with you, will push your self-belief into the skies, which will give you the strength and self-belief to persevere.
3) Persevering at going out, talking to women, asking them out, and dating will make you realise that no one woman you are fixated on will solve your problems, or needs to, and that you will get numbers, a lot quicker than you thought. Then, by the same methods, you will end up with dates, and then a relationship.
I learned about the value of perseverance when a friend who was homeless and living in a squat for months, was looking for a place. He was not checking out the estate agents very often due to his hopelessness. I managed to convince him, amongst others, to keep ringing and putting his best foot forward. Soon he was ringing 5-10 estate agents a day. Then, a few days later, a friend told him about a place out of the blue, and he got it.
This sort of thing is very, very common.
By the way, anytime you get down, rent a James Bond film, or a Frank Capra comedy, or either Mr Smith Goes To Washington, or Now Voyager. There is more homespun wisdom that works that all the psych books you will ever find.
If you want to brush up on talking to people, read Dale Carnegie. He wrote it for sales people, and they get the most brush-offs of all, so they HAVE to be good at getting people to talk. I've read his stuff. PURE GOLD.
Wow, I'm good. Just solved my own problems by talking to someone else. This is why I love posting on POF. Used to solve personal problems for a living, and ended up curing most of my own.
Guess I'm going to take my own advice.
Email me if you wanna chat.
ITS ALL GOOD!
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| Incel
Posted: 5/28/2007 7:40:57 PM | ~OP~ Forums 101: Ignore, and I mean completely ignore the rude/nasty/hateful posts. You owe NO ONE an explanation and you will find that all of these sexual gurus posting nastiness are probably just sexually frustrated and have no one to take their nastiness out on. PFT ~ somedays I wonder who raised these people. 
~OT~ I'm not sure if I am Incel. Although I will admit that I have extended periods of celibacy in my life. I am not the least bit prudish (and yes I have references) nor am I frigid or afraid. I simply find value in loving someone prior to getting naked with him. If someone doesn't get that, too bad for them.
I will agree with some of the other more intellectually driven posters, it does sound like you have a serious case of social anxiety. It's not only treatable, but what a relief in all aspects of life once it is under control.
Personally, I wouldn't waste my virginity on a prostitute. I'd wait until I find out exactly what my personal situation is, which means talking to an MD and may be counselor of some sort. I'd do the medical route first, you might have a quick easy answer. Secondly, stop worrying so much. Sex isn't the I-ching it's all cracked up to be. When it's right for you, it will happen. If you are A-sexual, that's a different story, but I think you'll be just fine. The mere fact you wrote here, shows your ability to communicate about a touchy subject ~ that speaks volumes. Best of luck to you.  | |
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| Incel
Posted: 5/15/2008 6:29:30 AM | Just wanted to say I'm Incel too.
I don't really have any advice apart from, if the medication you're taking isn't making you feel much better, just see the doctor and ask to go on a different one, since not all SSRI's work for all people, and remember you need to give it long enough as well to see if it works, like say 6 weeks. | |
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