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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 12:47:26 AM | How do you reach that conclusion? If we didnt orcherstrate our own existance it must have been god?
I think there are a few steps in logic missing there. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 1:10:46 AM | Whew... Whatta thread.
I happen to have some very well defined beliefs in these matters.
First off to avoid confusing everyone's preconceived ideas about God. I'll call God, Charlie for the rest of this post. Why Charlie? Because God doesn't care what you call it, and it adds a touch of levity to the conversation.
(DISCLAIMER; God is not a person, or even a personification... GOD IS ALL! I will be referring to Charlie as a male, but I could of just as easily pick Charlene, and used female reference. Also this is a HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL topic. Those who are offended easily please exit stage left now.)
Charlie does exist. Charlie is everything (including nothing) in fact the nothing parts creates the something parts (Relativity)
Someone mentioned that we created Charlie in our image. Bang on! The common conception of Charlie is that of an angry, insecure parent that punishes bad and rewards good. That image has been created by humans who can't fathom unconditional love. So we became "children of a lesser Charlie." However the truth is, Charlie didn't just make us in his image... we are Charlie experiencing Charlie.
Imagine you had all the knowledge, power, ability of Charlie... What would you do? Nothing! You'd already know how it'd turn out. You've already explored every possible aspect of every possible choice that could be made. All knowledge, all wisdom, no experience.
So one day Charlie wanted to experience just how wonderful Charlie was. This was impossible since Charlie was all there was. Charlie couldn't stop being Charlie, but he could forget he was Charlie for a while. So Charlie literately divided himself (Big bang) Now smaller pieces of Charlie could look at the rest of Charlie and saw "WOW, I am great!" of course the creation of reality also created RULES including relativity (which is paramount to this current existence) Charlie needed something not-Charlie, which was impossible, so Charlie caused parts of himself to forget that they were Charlie (humans) knowing all along that it was still Charlie. (We'll differentiate the 2 by using Big Charlie and Little Charlie's) So the little Charlie's armed with an incredible play ground (the universe) set about having Charlie-like experiences. They created, and loved just like Big Charlie. Of course, not knowing how truly incredible the little Charlie's were, death was SCARY. So the Little Charlie's hoarded, were selfish, hurtful, and even murdered each other. They caused wars, and so on. This was of no concern to BIG Charlie. Since hurt was needed for there to be forgiveness, war was needed in order to have peace. etc. And because it was all just Charlie playing with himself, there's no real danger at all (in the big picture.)
Big Charlie, created a safe environment for the Little Charlie's to play with. He doesn't care if they play hide n seek, or play tag. Create war, or peace. Bring people together, or tear them apart. There all fine, safe games in Big Charlie's eyes. The experiences help the little Charlie's define themselves, there by helping BIG Charlie re-create himself.
The little Charlie's did notice all the good stuff in them, and always felt like there was more to this thing called life. Some went searching for more meaning, and discovered that they were in fact, connected to all (Big Charlie)
So the individualized parts (Little Charlie's) of Charlie went through cycles of not knowing and suffering (being separate from ALL), to knowing (enlightenment - being connected to ALL) then they go back to not-knowing again.... Why? Because it' s fun! It's also the only game in town! BIG Charlie, and the little Charlie's are having a lot of fun, going between, BEING ALL and BEING SEPARATE and then going back to ALL again, and again, and again.
If this was all there was to it CHARLIE would of gotten really bored really quick. But the real MEANING OF LIFE is to re-create Charlie into something bigger and better. That's what EVERYTHING is doing (not just on this planet, but throughout the universe) we're re-creating Charlie everyday. Every thought, action, feeling you have is being combined with all the other little Charlie's thoughts, feelings, and actions to (re) create..... CHARLIE! That keeps the game fresh.
Obviously there's no Satan, no hell, and no heaven either (I guess heaven could be described as the part of the cycle where you're Big Charlie/knowing, and Hell would be the part were little Charlie feels separate from Big Charlie, and even the other little Charlie's) Since there's really only one entity here, why would we punish ourself? Of course you can have Hell like experiences if you want. Sometimes we want to. It's exciting to pull yourself out such situations. What a great experience!
As little Charlie's we have all the powers and abilities of Big Charlie. Including (and especially) the ability to create. We create every situation, every nuance, of every second of everyday. (You may not know why you created it, but you did) The reason we create is to experience. Want to experience forgiveness? Well, you'll need something to forgive. So I'll help you out, my fellow little Charlie, I'll hurt you and you can forgive me for it. You're welcome. We co-create with each other. Big Charlie doesn't care what we create. Big Charlie can't be hurt. We can even choose to create destruction (which is what most of us are doing today) We seem to enjoying feeling separate from each other, and separate from Big Charlie. So be it. However the real consequences of pretending we're separate is that it's really easy to destroy yourself. This planet is collectively choosing to self-destruct. That's fine by Big Charlie, but is it OK by you? Is this current experience worth preserving? Do we want to collectively decided to help each other (ourselves) or destroy each other (ourselves.) The choice is yours.
Dude's (and Dudette's) like Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammad became aware of that they we're really just a part of Big Charlie while still here on earth. They (and many, many others) have tried to explain the REAL situation to us, but most little Charlie's are still enjoying the not-knowing. (Nothing wrong with that.) they've also gone to explain, in great length, what KNOWING is like, and how to get there. To quote J.C. "I and the father are one. " and "ye are my brethren." I tell ya there's only one of us here, and it's CHARLIE.
I'm gonna take a break soon, but I may continue this tomorrow. (First I've got one huge idea to, attempt, to convey)
Right and wrong are matters of opinion. Good and evil are matters of opinion. There can truly be no evil since Charlie is all there is. The actions we perceive as evil or bad are actually acts of Good and Love. Love is Charlie - Charlie is Love - Love/Charlie is ALL THERE is.
All events, all experiences, have as their purpose the creating of opportunity. Events and experiences are opportunities. Nothing more, nothing less. (not acts of Charlie, works of Satan, or rewards from Charlie) It's what we think of them, what we do with them, BE in response to them that give them meaning. Each "opportunity" presented, allows us new experiences, and a chance to grow and better understand our true selves.
Example; The Hitler Experience
The Hitler Experience was made possible as a result of group consciousness. I know you wanna say Hitler was just a single rotten apple, that manipulated and bullied his people. But this conveniently lays all the blame at Hitler's feet (which is where you probably want it) Hitler could do nothing without the cooperation and support of millions of people. The subgroup called "Germans" must assume an enormous burden of responsibility for the Holocaust. As must, to some degree, the larger group called "Humans," which if nothing else, allowed itself to remain indifferent and apathetic to the suffering of Germany, until it reached such as massive scale that even the most cold-hearted isolationists could no longer ignore it.
It was the collective consciousness that provided the fertile soil for the growth of the Nazi movement, but Hitler didn't create it. A group consciousness that which speaks constantly of separation and superiority produces loss of compassion on a massive scale. Loss of compassion leads to loss of conscience.
A collective concept rooted in strict nationalism ignores the plight of others, yet makes everyone else responsible for yours, thus justifying retaliation, and war.
Auschwitz was the Nazi solution to the "Jewish problem."
The horror of the Hitler experience was not that he perpetrated it on the human race, but that the human race ALLOWED HIM TO!
The astonishment is not that Hitler came along, but that so many others went along.
The shame is not only that Hitler killed millions of Jews, but that millions of Jews had to die before Hitler was stopped.
The purpose of the Hitler experience was to show humanity to itself.
Throughout history we've had remarkable teachers, each presenting extraordinary opportunities. These teachers have shown us the highest and lowest of the human potential.
They have presented vivid, breathtaking examples of of what it can mean to be human - of where one can go with the experience, of where the lot of us can and will go, given our consciousness. The thing to remember: consciousness is everything, and creates our experiences. Group consciousness is very powerful and produces unspeakable beauty or ugliness. The choice is always ours! Want the world to change? Change things in your own world.
Hitler gave us a golden opportunity to do that. The Hitler experience - like the Christ experience is profound in it's implications and the truths it revealed to us about us.
If you float out a crazy idea, and 10 million people agree with you, you might not think you're so crazy. The world eventually decided (finally) that Hitler was "wrong." That is to say the world's people made a new assessment of WHO THEY WERE, and WHO THEY CHOSE TO BE, in relationship to the Hitler experience.
Hitler held up a yardstick! He set a parameter, a border against which we could measure and limit our ideas about ourselves. Christ did the same thing (at the other end of the spectrum)
There have been other Christ's and other Hitler's and there will be again and again. So be ever vigilant, people of high and low consciousness walk with you - even as you walk among others. Which consciousness do you take with you?
So if you want to call Hitler "wrong." Good. By this measure you've come to define yourself, and know more about yourself. Good. But don't condemn Hitler for for showing you that.... someone had too!
It is only by defining ourselves that we can begin to define Big Charlie. You can't know 'hot' unless there's 'cold.' You can't know 'good' unless there's 'evil.' Don't condemn one and bless the other. To do so is to fail to understand. You can not be "enlightened" without "ignorance" either.
So do we need these atrocities to continue to happen, in order to have their opposites exist? No. That is why we're blessed with memories. So honor the Holocaust memorials, and never forget. When we forget, we find ways to remind ourselves again (think 9/11)
Remember... and choose different experiences.
Unfortunately, this is such a complex topic that I couldn't possibly explain it in a single post (probably not in a million posts!) but I hope something REAL came through on this.
I can tell you that if you're looking to "find god" you don't have to go to far. You're it! Search you feelings. Charlie communicates best through feelings. Always listen to your heart. Don't believe a word I say, rather read my BS and see if it resonates with your feelings. Same thing with any idea, religion, or concept... run it through the filter of your heart and see if it's TRUE FOR YOU. My truth does not have to be your truth. I find truth in all religious teachings. I also find utter f*cking garbage. I assure you Charlie is always your highest thought, your grandest idea, your greatest feeling. Listen to them and grow.
Above all ALWAYS HEAD THE GOLDEN RULE;. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. J.C. said that cause he knew there was only ONE of us here.
A few quick scriptures.
"Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD." — Torah Leviticus 19:18
"When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." — Torah Leviticus 19:33-34
"None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself." — Muhammad (c. AD 571 - 632) in a Hadith.
"This is the sum of duty; do naught unto others what you would not have them do unto you." — Mahabharata (5 17) (c. 500 BC)
"What you do not wish upon yourself, extend not to others." — Confucius (ca. 551 - 479 BC)
"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man." — Hillel (ca. 50 BC - AD 10)
OK that's enough preachin' for one day,
FISH (I gotta win "the longest post ever" prize for this one) | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 3:34:04 AM | I haven't read through the thread, but I've never seen a good reason to jump to the conclusion that there is a God or gods. In fact , the evidence that we would expect to see if there was a god, is not to be seen.
Much of the difficulty of discussing any god is caused by those that clam that one exists, not defining it clearly.
Once they start giving clear definitions, it's harder for them to dance around the difficult questions.
For example, if they claim their god answers your prayers you can ask for their evidence of that. You can also present the scientific evidence that it dosen't. You can also ask the logical question; Why would he need to answer your prayers? .... because he didn't foresee the future?
Some people have a looser definition of god; "the entity that created the universe then sat back doing nothing". ... Often the definition of this sort of god is little different than the definition of an "Unknown natural phenomenon that created the universe" the crunch comes when they declare that it's supernatural. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 4:58:15 AM | at froqO
The argument assumes that existence MUST be intentional ["orchestrated"]. There's no reason to believe that is so. It is an assumption which arises from a need to have a concrete and understandable explanation.
........no it doesn't!........if existence has no intention then i'll ask you to tell me why there is ALL THAT IS, when its just as easy(if not easier) for IT not to have been there at all to begin with!
The alternative is certainly not air-tight. You can't prove any gods exist, you cannot prove they are directly responsible for anything. In fact, you need not prove anything - you can simply say "the gods made it so".
.......the entity which INTENDED for all that is, lies outside our dimensions of understanding, therefore it is not subject to being proved or disproved.....nor did i insinuate that it could be. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 6:56:53 AM | | @callmefish: Well said. I couldn't agree more. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 9:00:40 AM | Spinningwheels, thanks for reading all that. Every so often I throw a "gem" into a forum, and it seems to kill the entire thread. Almost like no one wants to think too hard!
If I feel inspired again, I'll add more.
I should clarify that I did not grow up in a religious home. In fact my parents didn't have a clue what to believe, so they let us find our own paths. I attended church 2 or 3 times in my life. (With my elementary school friends, during a Saturday sleep over) even as a young child, I thought "These people are nuts!"
I was a devote atheist until about 4-5 years ago. My love of science causes me to think about and analyze everything. At the time I was working with a real "fire and brimstone" Baptist who was trying to "save me." So, I was forced to do educate myself on the topic. (if only to defend myself) I found the Baptist had points that my beliefs couldn't answer. I even went and met his pastor, and after about an hour I came to the conclusion that if their idea of a judgmental, punishing God was true, I'd rather worship the devil! (at least the Devil was fair!) So I found myself in a mild spiritual crisis. I decided that if God was real, and IT was an omnipotent entity, and IT wanted to be known, then it should be pretty easy to know. So I continued to educate myself on the worlds spiritual teachings, and finding out what felt right to me. I learned to meditate, and found out I already all the answers in me. Wouldn't you know it, I found God in me too! (I just never looked before)
This revelation didn't really change who I was on the outside. I still f*ck, drink, swear, enjoy heavy metal and smoke.etc. But it did change something inside. The reason and meaning behind these action changed. I find that my understanding of GOD/LIFE waxes and wanes too. Sometimes life seem so simple, other times it's almost unbearably hard. (It's easy to get caught up in the illusion of reality) When it seems hard it's always because I forget to take responsibility for my experience(s). It's really easy to play the victim, to blame your troubles on someone else. But then I have to take a step back and ask "Why did I choose to experience this?" The answer is usually very apparent. Then I can move forward, thank my "attacker/fellow player" for the experience, forgive them for the perceived misdeed, and try to remember why I caused this painful experience (So I don't put myself through it again!)
To this day, no one has managed to change my core beliefs on God. I expand on them, but what I've figured out seems to hold up to any amount of criticism. I even talk to the J.W.'s and Mormon's when they come-a-knockin'. When I lived in Abbotsford BC (the bible belt) I ended up with the big-wig JW's coming over (since I had thoroughly confused the door knockers, they sent in the cavalry!) I know that I caused them to re-examine their own beliefs. It's funny, cause after a while, nobody would dare knock on my door selling religion. I'm always polite too. You think that if they were so SURE of their beliefs, and so committed to "saving souls" they'd keep on talking to someone that was open to debating them. I guess their ideals couldn't hold up to my criticisms, so they advised their flock to stay away. It seems to go a lot faster these days. Mormon' s came a knocking last month. I took their book, assured them I'd read it and asked them to come back in 3 days at a set time to debate. I gave them a hint of what I believe in... and when the day came around I had tea ready, and everything... no Mormon's! Hmmmm I guess my soul wasn't worth it!
Hinduism is probably the closest religion comes to my beliefs. Yes it world's oldest religion has it "right." Why because there is no "right" in Hinduism. In fact Hindu's believe that every path is the path to God. I bet you've never met an orthodox hindu... cause they don't exists. In fact in Hinduism the "left hand" path to God is achieved my doing acts we'd consider "bad." It's all inclusive, just like God (or a good resort hotel!)
If you want to expand your understanding of God, read Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramhansa Yogananda. Or anything by Paramhansa Yogananda. He's long dead and buried, I believe the first printing was in 1946. Get the revised printing though. Both are good, but the language is updated in the revised print. (Oh yeah, this book has nothing to do with stretching. Although our "western yoga exercises" are very good to practice, they have very little to do with spirituality or "finding God")
For those of you screaming for proof; When this humble Indian messenger of God died his body DID NOT ROT, OR DECOMPOSE! As reported in Time Magazine on August 4, 1952, Harry T. Rowe, Los Angeles Mortuary Director of the Forest Lawn Memorial Park Cemetery in Glendale, California where he is interred, stated in a notarized letter:
The absence of any visual signs of decay in the dead body of Paramahansa Yogananda offers the most extraordinary case in our experience.... No physical disintegration was visible in his body even twenty days after death.... No indication of mold was visible on his skin, and no visible drying up took place in the bodily tissues. This state of perfect preservation of a body is, so far as we know from mortuary annals, an unparalleled one.... No odor of decay emanated from his body at any time....
I'm sure you can poke hole in it. But hey, that's fine.
There are many other great reads out there too;
Niel Donald Walsch's Conversations with God series is phenomenal (If you can wrap your head around God writing books through a man)
Movies are a great source of info too.
What the Bleep do we know
What dreams may come
K-Pax
Starwars
To list a few demonstrate aspects of godliness.
I would take ANYTHING as the absolute authority on God. Not the bible, not any religious scripture. No book, or film can fully explain the unexplainable. But you'll get enough "cliff notes" to start you on your own path. Just filter all the info through your heart, and see what resonates with you.
Lastly, even if I am stone cold wrong, could you think of a better way to live?
Love all ways, (Yes, it's spelled that way intentionally)
FISH | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 1:17:56 PM | "Thing is if God exists then so does the Devil. Where do they live? Where is Heaven? Is it beyond our universe? If so why is it so big if we cant go to Mars whats the point in making Billions of stars and equal galaxies."
doesn't follow.
there could be god and no devil
devil and no god.
no god or devil or heaven
god and heaven
god and no heaven
no god and no heaven
heaven and no god
devil and heaven
devil and no heaven ....etc etc.
full marks for spotting the correct combination out of the permutations possible.
"Religion ends and philosophy begins, just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins and astrology ends and astronomy begins." christopher hitchens | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 1:18:41 PM | Sorry, that line should read;
"I wouldn't take ANYTHING as the absolute authority on God" | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 3:58:12 PM |
full marks for spotting the correct combination out of the permutations possible.
Excellent *gets out proveable God test kit* | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 4:16:13 PM | "Don't make me come down there!" ~ God
If there is a 'god' he/she/it must be a twisted, selfish, petulant, jealous child with a sick sense of humor.
"can't have any other gods before me or I will strike you down", etc.
3 or 4 of the "10 comamndments" seem to be all about ego..
all-powerful & all-loving? obviously not both.. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/4/2007 11:26:52 PM | @ callmefish
.... ....for a very insightful post.
.......at first i just scrolled by it after reading a few lines sensing that it was just another (of many) outlandish rant by some poor twisted fool, but on reading further, i see that your words "clothe" a deeper wisdom that few pple seem to been able to bring across!
it seems that you have found your path to enlightenment.........stay on it, for 'the road goes ever on'...! | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/5/2007 6:06:50 AM | OP:
It is kinda scary so one can either join a religion or enjoy life while it lasts or ponder on that question for a lifetime. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/5/2007 6:43:46 AM | If there was, in fact, some sort of supreme being, whether it was known as "God", or "Zod", or "Master of the Universe", there would be more organization, and less randomization of the world as we know it.
And there would be some iota of proof, somewhere...besides a faint stain on a wall somewhere that people flock to because they think it is some sort of a sign. So much hypocrasy in religion, something like 10,000 religions worldwide. And only 1 can be right, whether it's one of those, or none of them.
No, I don't believe there's a God or any other supreme being. But if some bearded guy appears out of a mist, I would definitely rethink my position. Does that make me athiest, or agnostic? I don't even know... | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/6/2007 1:43:32 AM |
As a person open to views about the Universe and about God I was wondering.... Good on ya. However, you might want to reanalyse some of your presuppositions.
As far as we know the big bang happened and we were all created from Matter. As far as we know the Big Bang theory and the understanding of existence as matter do explain to a degree our existence an perceptions.
From my old school Matter won over ant-matter and then Billions of years later were here. A plausible framework for understanding the history and present state of the universe, granted.
Thing is if God exists then so does the Devil. Strike one for presuppositions. Depends on the God, don't it? The one does not logically precede the other, whatever some ideologically dogmatic theologians may have us believe.
Where do they live? Where is Heaven? Is it beyond our universe? If so why is it so big if we cant go to Mars whats the point in making Billions of stars and equal galaxies. Questions that are, at present, without definitive answers. Subjective reasoning grants a multitude of possibilities, even with the allowance for the existence of things "beyond our universe". Or, for that matter, within it, eh?
Imagine you die....you have no body or brain anymore, you exsist as matter, as Einstien said were all made of it and so is the universe so you never die. Depending, of course, on one's definition of "death". "Matter is neither created nor destroyed." Well, at least, it's never been observed to do so...
But he didnt believe in god. Lotta references would refute this. I gotta say, I don't know what the man believed with regard to God. As for whether or not it makes sense with regard to our theoretically infinite existence as particulate matter, I don't even see a connexion.
If you die then you will never know about time, never eat another apple, never use the PC again, never do the things we all do know in the physical. Who is the "you", and where's the proof that such things are impossible for a given individual after the death of the body?
Its weird to think about it but its kind of scary. Scary, yes, in the sense that I realise there's so much out there to learn, but that I may never find out. Weird? I find it more uplifting and optimistic, in that there is always more to explore, both externally (in the universe around me) and internally (in my own thoughts and the methods I use to examine them). Grand world, innit? Oh--
Does God exist? Subjectively, I can say that, to me the answer is "yes". | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/6/2007 2:48:18 AM | To quote Morgan Freeman in the movie The Big Bounce,"God is an imaginary friend for adults" funny given he played god in bruce almighty.and he plays god in the upcomming sequel..evan almighty,i guess god would be what we want to blame everything on....a child dies and someone is always heard saying..."it's gods will" what kind of god lets children die? i'm not a religious person,but if i had a god it wouldn't let children die.it wouldn't let any of us die.
so to answer the question..."does god exist"? no,there is no god,there is no devil,there is no heaven,there is no hell.
we are born just to return to earth. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 3:02:05 AM | Morgan Freeman in the movie The Big Bounce,"God is an imaginary friend for adults"
Brilliant thought and ... scary at the same time (if one thinks of the implications of this syllogism)! "An imaginary friend for adults". Scary indeed. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 7:06:27 AM | | God, gods, karma etc. are all subjects of religion, not science. If one is asking for proof or why, then one is asking a question of science, not religion. Religion is about beleifs that do not require definition, observation, and conclusion nor does it have to be flexible as science is. Science makes conclusions based on evidence but is always open to change those conclusions. Religion may change due to influence from science but it doesn't have to as it is a belief system. Science and religion both serve society for good and bad. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 10:09:14 AM | Science vs. Religions:
Are political, ideological and economic ideas "religions", "dogmas", "theories" or "science"? Does God exist? Well, does the "rational investor" exist either? Bottom line: Life is comprehensive and both science and religion and politics and economics are part of it. All together, as a melange. In a global village. Of course something(s) which created Cosmos exists but there is no reason to think humans are God's "chosen" part of overall creation or species. Or the earth.
Let's live and spend! lol Is hedonism "science" or "religion"? Socialism? Libertarianism? | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 11:16:23 AM | Sure he does.
And he loves you as you would love your own son...even more.
Gods wisdom is far beyond our ability to comprehend.
You sound like a pretty smart guy.
My advice would be to find a few people who are christian by faith. Read the NIV version of the Bible.
Then make your OWN decision.
I | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 2:54:17 PM | Astronomers recently discovered an exo-planet about 20 light years from Earth in a 'goldilocks' orbit that theoretically could support life (as we know it.) Obviously, this is just one star amongst the trillions in our galaxy where life-sustaining planets may exist and the days when we believed we were alone in the universe must surely be numbered.
I think some things in our universe are so fantastic they couldn't have been created 'accidentally', but on the other side it's difficult if you *want* to believe to take everything at face value. The bible has become not entirely how it started out; we've had the gnostic gospels, translations from ancient aramaic text through to modern English, Roman emporers deciding the contents etc.
I do struggle with the theory of creation as laid out in the bible when there is a lot of evidence through modern astronomy to suggest a 'big bang' and we have pictures (thanks to Hubble) of stars forming e.g. this fantastic photo of the 'pillars of creation' - http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/eagle_nebula_020219-1.html etc.) | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 2:58:18 PM | the tale of an 'all-loving' god is very difficult to reconcile with child deaths, war, murder, torture & related agony & pain, etc. ,etc.
He loved his own Son so much that he ensured that he was mercilessly tortured & killed..
oh, I get it now!
yes, yes, I know. the bible-bangers will say that 'god does not take control over free will' or some other B.S., etc. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 3:07:21 PM | | The idea that there is no "life" in Mars and other planets where "life as we perceive" it does not seem to exist maybe is call for rethinking what we consider as "life". Maybe the key word is not "life", it is "existince" and even stones on Mars "exist". What made all that? A humanlike existence? That would be a very human centered approach. Selfpserving to us humans. Animals are "living" creatures too. Why did God not speak to them too? What makes us so special in the Universe? Our own self perception of our uniqueness? | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 5:04:31 PM | If we are not the only self-aware species in the universe, then if God exists, you could expect a common religion (with common rules and laws) across the different planets in our universe as the same God who created our planet must have created the rest of the universe.
As the nearest detected (possibly) habitable planet is 20 light years away from Earth, unfortunately, this is impossible to prove unless we can invent a space-craft that can travel at speeds approaching the speed of light! | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/7/2007 8:11:48 PM | | there has to be a god or nothing means anything. there has to be a purpose to my life. It scares me to death to think that all i am is a biodegratable mass. there has to be more. as far as we know to date we are the only living species in our known galaxy to question our own mortality and that fact to me is an encouraging thought. | |
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