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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/15/2007 9:08:57 PM |
Instead of going with the flow of humanity, which leads to destruction and hatred
How is it so? I see the opposite: imposing one's perception onto all leads to segregation. MRI shows similar regions of high neuro acitivity in individuals who claim contentment, either with the reason of 'spiritual experience' or success of work. But of course, if it's a pure scientific question, likely we are wasting time here. But I find no contradiction to a better hamony with this question answered one way or the other. It's should be about how one does it within ... | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/15/2007 11:07:13 PM |
The trouble with a spiritual experience is that it is NOT "real". Not in a scientific sense. It is not empirical, not observable, not verifiable, not repeatable, not explicable
Now as we all know, the brain IS a sensory organ... Meaning you can feel with your mind... I don't know one person who has never had a feeling of "oneness" with the universe... A separate human being can feel as if one with everything. That is a spiritual experience that can be verified by an extremely large amount of people... It has been repeated time and time again ever since we've been aware... | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/17/2007 1:17:40 PM | I have worked out an equation that proves God exists! :oD Yes I could possibly be the most famous person in the history of mankind after my revalation! :oD
Excited everyone? :o) LOL
I'll be back - when I find out where I jotted it down..... its was a napkin somewhere.. Hmmm | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/17/2007 3:30:47 PM | ^^^^ funny, ..
thanks, I needed the laugh..
sexxy as h_ll too ;_ | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/17/2007 7:52:02 PM | | I don't have a long philosophical answer to this but I think god is the essential essence of all that is, reality. It's easier to feel it than explain it. | |
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tdh46
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Joined: 1/7/2007
Msg: 106 | |
| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/17/2007 9:20:21 PM | | I honestly don't know. I believe there is someone obviously greater than us in the universe, But god? If he really does exist why does he desert the kids and let some of them suffer so? I look at babies dying of aids and i say no, i look at babies born addicted to drugs and i say no. I look at kids dying of cancer and i say no. I can understand in some ways bad things happening to grown up, I just don't see the point of a loving god hurting kids or worst yet taking them from this world before they even start living. Why bring them into this world only to make them suffer. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/17/2007 11:55:21 PM | Well, if god does exist, he needs to go back to the drawing board.
Not only is the planet badly designed, the human body is close to pathetically designed, frail, susceptible to breakdowns of all sorts, very short life expectancy.
If it was for sale, it would be the sort of thing youd pick up in a reject shop. Probably having made in Taiwan stamped on the bottom
maybe this is where the multivers theory comes into play, we are the poor suckers that were the prototypes, the rejects for some alernat reality where man lines as he should, in peace, and working together. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 12:22:26 AM | The existence of Dark Matter proves that humans cannot perceive all the things in this universe.
That being said, the evidence from biblical scholars points pretty conclusively towards the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic gods all coming from the Jewish God, and the Jewish God pretty much being created by humans. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 12:51:30 AM | | ok, jesus was born a jew, then why is christianity the big one rather than judaism (sp? sorry) | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 110 | |
| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 1:03:16 AM | The first second
of the "big bang" determined what the reality of the universe will form
to be. What determined that reality? Why this specific
make up of the universe? What was wrong with the natural state of
the perfect universe......just a nothingness? Of course that question will
be met with silence from the scientific community because they can't
answer and so we decide based on either a faith that it was God or a faith
that it must have been a scientific process - something we'll never know. Both are faith
based....so, what evidence is there that a scientific process took place? And where
does your faith come from that it was scientific when no one scientist could
even begin answering such a profound question? | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 1:14:19 AM |
ok, jesus was born a jew, then why is christianity the big one rather than judaism (sp? sorry)
Probably because Judaism has a set cap. You can't properly "convert". You're either one of the chosen people of Israel, or you're not.
More importantly, the Roman empire implemented Christianity as their major religion and began to actively discriminate against others, spreading Christianity through most of Europe.
You are the religion your parents are. God is dying in former soviet countries. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 1:30:26 AM | The evidence that a scientific [natural] process took place is that science has been able to provide explanations for virtually everything previously ascribed to "God". The God explanation is unsupported because there is NO process which requires an explanation based on something indefinable and inexplicable. Both have a basis in faith. Science says "we have found working explanations thus far, we believe will find explanations for this." Religion says "I can't explain it, so I'll attribute it to something else I can't explain".
Stone spoke of experiences being within the brain...poor argument. Inasmuch as we DO sense everything through the brain, he's right. To classify a spiritual "experience" alongside smell, taste, touch, heat, etc, is a crucial error. A billion people may say "I experienced the same thing", but not ONE of them can witness, explain, or recreate the experience of another. Each experience is individual and internal, and it is real only insofar as everyone may have such an experience. Since they can't be observed externally, they can't be used as evidence. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 6:31:41 AM | | When you understand nature and yourself...you will know god. Or whatever you wish to call it. No man will ever be able to show you. When you understand those two things (or one thing) then you will know . | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 6:39:21 AM | | Something(s) created all this. But I doubt that It/they planned a special role for us humans. Most religions tho are effective social systemics theories and most include wisdom for the time they were developed. Some are more time resistant than others. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 9:59:24 AM |
"Probably because Judaism has a set cap. You can't properly "convert". You're either one of the chosen people of Israel, or you're not."
Well....according to Jehovah's Witnesses there are to be 144, 000 "chosen"
they ALREADY HAVE "MORE THAN THAT".
so WTF do they go door-to-door & stand on streetcorners with "Awake" trying to recruit more people, who cannot possibly be part of the 144,000 "chosen" ?? | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 10:06:09 AM | | It's a paradox. They have try to save people to be good people, despite the fact that trying to save others means there will be more people vying to get into heaven. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/18/2007 10:46:43 PM | if only 144,000 will be saved,
heaven will be a very sparcly populated place.
and what of the millions that have died in the past few billion years since homosapians started walking the planet? | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/19/2007 7:58:43 AM | The idea/hope/belief that a "God" exists goes hand in hand with the hope/belief in an afterlife, which is too convenient for us humans to be true. It serves to un-scare us of the idea of dying and keep many of us from doing things that God will see and condemn us to eternal hell.
But at the end of the day, whether or not a God exists and whether or not there is an afterlife is IMO irrelevant regarding what we do and how we conduct ourselves in our lives on Earth (in secular Societies ruled by law).
We have to follow secular laws because that is the contract each of us "signs" with the State one is a citizen of (the Constitution and the laws). That is why Socrates drank the poison. Not to break the law, even though it was a frame!
PS. Analogy. POF is a "system". Is there a "god" of POF?
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/19/2007 10:49:10 AM | O.K. here goes
God is beyond the universe, in Heaven, but also in the universe but unable to be seen also he is words omnipresent. The Devil is on Earth but again is a supernatural being without a true physical form so is therefore not visible unless he shows himself.
As far as what Einstein said it was an extrapolation of the concept that matter and energy are not created nor destroyed, a basic law of physics, so if your mind is energy you cannot die. However this does not take into account your soul a supernatural element of your person given to you by God which is what ultimately gives us the ability to think and therefore have free will and an understanding of God.
As for the being physical you will have a body of sorts when you die it will be a kind of spirit body until the time of resurrection in which you will receive a new pure body where you will lose a sinful nature. This of course is a Christian view of things which if you' d like I could go into more detail of each point and certain proofs of why it is true. | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/19/2007 8:49:08 PM | FrogO - Msg 101
Is LOVE "real"? Not in a scientific sense. It is not empirical, not observable, not verifiable, not repeatable, not explicable. It is internal and personal.
But does it exist? Is Love real? To those who feel and experience it - Of course..
How is "God" any different? Real enough to those who feel and experience "Him" And you have no more information, proof or authority to tell them or prove otherwise...
Just because man is ill equipped and lacks the mental and emotional capacity at this stage in his development to fully comprehend, explain or even understand by our limited scientifc capabilities to date, is not in anyway confirmation that it therefore ceases to exist.
Any true scientist will remember that nothing in science is ever truly FACT. It only remains the best explaination we can provide at the time - within our capabilities until the next scientific breakthrough claims to be the new "fact".....
Fact: T Rex - He's scaly. lizard like. Always has been - always will be??
The new FACT of the matter is.......... He was feathered! :oO (For now at least!)
And now.... How many text books, documentaries, lectures, years, decades, centuries? of data do we still have and erroneously circulate about these previously unfefuted facts?? Look at the natural history museum...?? And still no mention of this new fact the last time I went....!! (??)
A fact I recall when Ifirst started with my scientific studies -
What is an atom? "An atom is the smallest part of an element." The FACT of the day.
But Is it????
Spinach contains massive amounts of iron! Of course we all know that is a fact right because once again "science" has "proven" so -
This FACT has been a "scientific fact" for decades... Based on flawed scientific research and data that remained unchalleged for the last 150 years!!
Now what say you to *scientifically proven* "facts"??
If Ive only learnt one thing in my scientific studies over the years it is this....
Never be inflexible or close your mind to infinate possibilities beyond our current comprehension... To do so is to cease to progess as a species..in every way.
It is those "crazy" forfathers of ours who dared to imagine and think in concepts so extreme to everyone else that has led us to all our greatest scientific, spiritual, physical and emotional discoveries to date........
My mind is as wide open as Stephen Hawkins imagination..!! :o)
A fact for you is that the greatest scientific minds known to man (incl Einstein & Hawkins to name but two)... Only found that in getting closer and closer to a "conclusive scientific explanation" - the only thing they really CAN genuinely conclude with any real certainty that there IS this inexplicable unknown that permeates the very fabric of life and the universe itself which exists.
(I belive when not using scientific terminology to explain life and the universe they sometimes called this unknown "God" too) ;o)
Whats in a name?
Do not let religion its practice and ritual blind you to the truths that exist in life and the universe. It like science only strives to offer an explanation for the same "unknown" entity....
Whatever "it" is - IT exists - as true as life itself - That both science and religion will agree...
Its irrelvant that we cannot yet understand, explain or prove it within our limited capacity.
How arrogant of mankind to assume that in our "millisecond"(?) of time in existance in this universe that has existed for billions of years, that we have "evolved" so much in such a short period of time with sufficient mental and emotional capacity to understand that which has existed an eternity.....
Man's ego... WILL be his downfall. As we can already see........... | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/19/2007 8:57:03 PM | tdh46 - Msg 107
"If he really does exist why does he desert the kids and let some of them suffer so? I look at babies dying of aids and i say no, i look at babies born addicted to drugs and i say no. I look at kids dying of cancer and i say no. I can understand in some ways bad things happening to grown up, I just don't see the point of a loving god hurting kids or worst yet taking them from this world before they even start living. Why bring them into this world only to make them suffer. "
"God" does not desert the children - Man does
"God" does not walk on the earth brandishing a gun - Man does
"God" does not start wars - Man does
"God" does not kill - Man does
I could go on.... but dont have too.....
"God" gave us free will? Who knows? - But we certainly are the ones who choose to perpetuate Good or Evil acts on each other, the planet and now - the universe...Irrespective of your "beliefs" - that is clear for all to see.
Accept responsibility.. YOU! ME! - personally for life - as WE ALL SHOULD...
Don't blame "God" whatever "it/he" may or may not be...
Mans ego - WILL be his downfall..........As we can already see........... | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/19/2007 9:54:24 PM | To address only a couple points -
"Love" is not a valid comparison for God. Love is a more or less agreed-upon term to describe feelings. God is generally considered to be an external, independant entity. You can experience love because love is DEFINED as an experience. You can only CLAIM to experience God, as there is no evidence to prove God exists as a separate entity. No evidence which isn't circular AND erroneously supported.
You can redefine God any way you like to get around the argument, but what this really does is undermine your support by showing that your "faith" isn't all that faithful. Oops, that definition of God doesn't work, need a new one. This may be the essence of problems with some faiths [in particular Christianity] recently. So many things are spelled out explicitly and taken as "gospel"...and then decisively shown as false. Recorded history exceeds the age of the world according to the Bible, just to name one blatant example. Faiths which will survive the best will be those which are most vague. Perhaps a god exists, but to PROVE that, you will need to provide a definition for god which is subject to scientific testing and scrutiny. Good luck with that, if only because no-one will agree on the definition. Many would oppose a definition simply because it opens the possibility of proving god does NOT exist
THIS is interesting though:
Whatever "it" is - exists ....we cannot yet understand, explain or prove it
Man's ego... WILL be his downfall
Is it not egotistical to claim with certainty that something exists, while in the same breath stating that you can't explain or prove it?
Do not let religion blind you ...
Indeed.
Now, to be clear, my main argument is not whether or not God exists. Believe what you will. Just don't use science to support it, because it NEVER works. Citing uncertainties in science is not a valid shelter either. Some things ARE fact. 1+1=2 and the sky is blue [partly because that is how we define "blue"]. Science can't prove God because no-one has defined God.
As an aside - I'm not sure about T-rex having feathers. Many of the smaller theropods have been shown to be feathered [AND scaled], but evidence lacking for the larger ones. Until recently, all skin impressions from dinosaurs were scaly. Existing theropods have scales as well as feathers. Available evidence made it reasonable to conclude scales as the skin covering of most or all dinosaurs. At this point, I *think* that saying T.rex was feathered would be more of an erroneous guess than feathers would be [googles theropod skin coverings...oh...I HAVE that issue of Nature...I forgot]. Interesting. An ancestor of T rex [Dilong paradoxus] appears to have been feathered, but the larger descendants, such as Tyrranosaurus are still believed to have been completely or largely unfeathered. Not a stretch, given that all birds are feathered and scaled, and feathers are basically just specialized scales. Just an off-topic tangent... | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/20/2007 12:52:19 AM | Savanna,
god might have given mankind free will,
but not all mamkind make the choice.
governments send people to fight their wars
capitalist international business control everything (my free will says lets have real socialism)
a baby born in africa didnt ask to starve to death
where was the free will for 6 million jews, they didnt ask to be gassed | |
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| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/20/2007 1:34:00 AM | ole time music
It is a collective responsibility we share - as linked group - which we are - as plain as the life we all share.... "mankind" as a shared collective entity have individual free will...
When we learn to stop individually detaching ourselves from our shared life with all things living...as if each one of us was some separate special entity of our own that exists exclusively outside of "life" contratry to all other life around us then we may just start to get the picture...
Who / what are we trying to blame here for the pain inflicted by us to all living things...? The energy that is life itself? Fair enough.. So that would be us again (as all of us that share life) anyway right...?
Blame God??? God IS the life within us all.....
So we arrive again....... Back to mankind....
Back to a respect and love for life itself...
Which is tantamount to a respect and love for each other..........
Oh Gosh - Is that something we have to all do..? Together? As a group? A collective? A shared entity?
I'd forgotten that whilst I pretended I existed somehow separately of life as we know it... and selfishly carried on just with my own life in mind (OK - I'll extend to a few close friend and family).. at best...hmmmmmm.....
Why are we surprised that every action in life causes a reaction in life...When we all know we share in the same one life (energy whatever) Of course we all suffer.... But we equally share the responsibility.
Just because we choose not to take it doesn't stop it from being so....
I said it before - And I'll say it again.. :o)
Mans ego - WILL be his biggest downfall - As we can already see.......
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 125 | |
| Does God exist?
Posted: 5/20/2007 1:39:48 AM | if only 144,000 will be saved,
heaven will be a very sparsely populated place.
Heaven is 1400 sq miles....if I remember my bible correctly. It will be
a vessel descending down some place not too tepid or humid - me thinks.
It's story's like that which stop me from ridiculing
the 71 virgins stories. Everything sounds fantastic, but what's interesting is
that these numbers; 71, & 144,000 etc are common numbers that appeared
on all continents before we became a seafaring society. | |
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