|
|
|
|
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 12:37:02 PM | Tilting at windmills is an English idiom which means attacking imaginary enemies
I do so love a good metaphor. It is one of the best. I find it amazing that one versed in such literary genius would attack those who consistany, IMO, used metaphors in their speech, ie Jesus. You should put down your jousting spear for a few days and see if you can find the meanings of some of the words he is credited with. I am actually happy to see that you understood the Quixote reference. I thought it would go right over your head like many of the others you were laughing at the other night apparently did. On the other hand, maybe it is why you were laughing. I don't read minds.
It is amazing how a strong light can temporarily blind a man. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:52:13 PM | The statement I made was
We all have belief systems that we staunchly support and when questioned about them we tend to get protective..
this does not necessarily mean that we all have one singular belief system that we support but it does mean that we will occasionally staunchly support some belief system or another and when questioned about those we support we will tend to support them...
You Stated
I believe what I see with my own eye or what is proven to be fact. and began discussing it at length.. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 5:19:34 PM | IMHO--You are free to believe anything you want? You are free to believe any fact you want.. you are also free not to. It is difficult to challenge common belief systems like colors but you are free to if you wish. Grasshopper go forth...may the force be with you in all your endeavours. lol couldn't resist the joke. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 6:20:43 PM | | How come god didn't tell any of the prophets that the world was round and there was much more of it than the middle East and the med...? | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:33:08 PM | How come god didn't tell any of the prophets that the world was round and there was much more of it than the middle East and the med...? .
Maybe they didn't ask? Some religions say you have to ask to recieve. What are you going to get if you don't ask? I asked for answers. I didn't get the answers I asked for. I just wonder why any religious person would believe that "prophets" are so special that god will answer them, but god doesn't answer anybody else. It might not be so bad if he religious only had a monopoly on the actual words of the prophets, but they tend to also monopolize the interpretations of what the words meant.
The Catholics and the Mormons both base Apostolic/Papal succession on a single statement of Jesus: "Simon, son of Judas, I will call you Peter. Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Whatsoever shall loose in heaven shall be loosed on earth" I suppose you could interpret the words that way in some extended transliteral sense. Something tells me they just like the idea of control.
So lets see if we can get it right:
Prophets can talk to "the christian" god, but you can't.
Prophets have all of the answers, but "the christian" god forgot to tell them that the world was round.
Prophets spoke sentences that apparently have special interpretations that you and I would not be interpret without the help of "special" Christian Representatives.
Ok, so you want to play poker with these guys? I think they are bluffing.
(as a side note. Peter is "Cephas" in Aramaic, and "Petros" in Greek. It means Rock. If you throw a rock into the "heaven" you cannot bind it there until you exceed the gravitational force of the earth, but if you do bind it there, it will be bound there. I consider the alternate interpretations as inspirational.) | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:23:40 PM | greg14229:
hmmm, almost, mccull, except for one thing. We do have evidence that matter in some form has existed at least since the beginning of our universe (or "forever", as you put it) Psycisists, by calcuating the rate of expansion of the early universe can get a picture of what types of matter filled this early universe. In addition, when we look through a telescope at a star or galaxy that is millions of light years away, we are actually looking millions of years into the past. And we can study the matter of those stars and galaxies.
So, no, sorry...faith doesnt apply here So is it we cannot have faith(belief/trust) that any of those observations are true? | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:32:13 PM | Funkee Monkee
check out ISAiah 40:22 >> it might refute your idea that prophets had no inclination that the earth was sperical. however we have already deciphered the shape of the earth.. so we no longer need to rely on a prophet to explain the shape of the earth. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:41:08 PM | | In order for the Big Bang to have occurred, there had to have been some interaction between matter and energy. So, where did said matter and energy come from? | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:11:34 PM |
In order for the Big Bang to have occurred, there had to have been some interaction between matter and energy.
says whom? | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:07:39 AM | In order for the Big Bang to have occurred, there had to have been some interaction between matter and energy. So, where did said matter and energy come from?
And the next step in that progression is?
If the matter and energy came from a "being," then where did the "being" come from?
The cause and effect line is circular logic. One or the other simply "existed."
Somewhere in the "first cause" chain, something had to exist without cause. Gravity is a great "first cause." If two things exist in space, they are drawn together by the force of gravity, only time and distance keep them separated. It is a force of acceleration that is most noted in massive objects, but the force exists in tiny pieces of dust. The massive objects pull so hard that the little dust particles can't compete, and have little measurable effect. The intruments required to measure the force at the dust level would interfere with the results because they also have mass. So either lots of mass existed in space, or there were two dust particles which slowly accelerated toward each other from a great distance, and made a "big bang" when they finally collided. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:29:04 AM | 2hi-iq-4u
I am a Saxon Shaman
aaaye, this is good
""May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown"" .....
(Aa' lasser en lle coia orn n' omenta gurtha) .....
^^^ tis a simple cut & paste of Elvishness, but fitting from one such as I | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:48:48 AM | 2hi-iq-4u.... i do not have the technology to 'highlight words in this arena. So I will have to just refer to a comment that you made.... Your comment (message 1781).
I will start with the words... I AM SORRY.
You refer to being attacked...
I say to you that I was initially intending to attack your ideas.
I did this because, in the two weeks or so that I have been manouvering about here, on 3 to 4 occassions you have interjected with an abrupt manner. You have 'tried' on each occassion to slap me about my face with your intellect using:
1. The language of riddles in a constant attempt to go over my head and 'PERSONALLY ATTACK' my intellect.
2.Pull me up on spelling, which is a 'PERSONAL ATTACK'.
3. 'CONSTANTLY' refer to the fact I have left in my profile the information that I am a 'social' drinker. Giving me and everyone else the impression that I am an alcoholic (A PERSONAL ATTACK).
As a result of these actions, I am proud to say that in the heated argument we had above.... I 'PERSONALLY' attacked you.
2hi-iq-4u...... I would like to take this oppertunity to say that I am sorry for attacking you. So I will say it twice (in addition to saying it at the beginning of this message).... I am sorry for 'PERSONALLY' attacking 'YOU'.
I would also like to share with you one thing that my country has banned (for what I believe to be a good reason)..... The carrying of knives.
I am off to have a beer. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:53:30 AM |
Caspar definitely doesn't exist. Only in imagination. The existence of God is a a wholly different matter. But the notion of a belief in God is NOT on the same level as a belief in Caspar. How silly. Or Santa. Or whatever. Imagination is a facet of human existence that serves a salutary purpose and leads one to creativity. It has nothing to do with a belief or non-belief in God. Contemplating the existence of God often has nothing to do with the actual fact. It usually amounts to the contemplation of one's own navel and protection of the status of one's ego. re: how clever am I? Admitting the possibility that you are indeed just a passing fancy is hard to swallow.
Casper and his side kick Wendy are based on a belief system that people have. They are fictionalized but the basic thread of the religion is still there. God is, but just like Romeo never thought if he was dreamed by Shakespeare or why he had to die at the end some people do not think about their creator or the power that flows around them untouched and awesome. I am forever as are you the possibility that we are future gods who will be able to create Universes once we grow up to hard for you to swallow? | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:28:55 PM | Brightspark,
Pull me up on spelling, which is a 'PERSONAL ATTACK'.
Apology is accepted . Excuses and explanations would have been better left unsaid.
Let me explain this so you understand. An Ad Hominem attack is "against the man."
If I am against the behavior, it is fair game. Spelling and Drinking are behaviors, not men.
I drink more than you do. I simply remember that you like to drink. I made no derogatory comments regarding drinking. I personally enjoy a drink every night, and my profile says that I drink often. I would not dare attack another drinker, but I would mention that it can impair your judgement and I don't recommend driving.
Spelling is content. I remembered that you corrected my spelling first, and I just struck back. I am sorry you took it personally. Spelling is nothing to me, and I happen to dislike spelling police with a passion. Even when I try to spell well, I make typos. Spelling Police and Grammar Nazis are not needed on a forum, IMO. Remember, Behavior is fair game in a debate. If your behavior makes you feel like an idiot, stop behaving that way. If I call you an idiot, I am guilty of a personal attack.
My biggest beef was your tendency to commit libel; and try to tell me what I believe, or what I want. I know what I want. You don't. Don't try to be a mind reader, and type out my feelings. You will be wrong every time. Type how you feel.
You only get my best description, and develop a perception. You can tell me how you feel about what I said, but you can't say how I felt when I said it. Make less assumptions about me, and try to explain about yourself. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:54:39 PM | Talk about something that makes you stupid, drinking will make you stupid. No offense 2hi-iq-4u but turn around is fair play is it not? .
It certainly is fair play, but I did not attack the man; only the behavior.
The effect of pot is temporary, it only makes you lack focus while you are high. The effect of drinking is permanent, but only occurs with "chronic usage." A glass of wine every day is healthy. A fifth of Vodka is not. I drink often, but within moderation. Chronic usage is raising your BA above .15% ish on a regular basis. Mine typically runs between .04 and .1. I have two or three drinks in a typical evening, not 10 or 20.
I've heard it said that if you drink even one drink every day you could well be an alcoholic.
I have heard quite a few old wives tales myself. Shall we debate the facts instead of hearsay?
I know of alcoholism as an overwhelming compulsion to drink. If you regularly stop at a few, you are not an alcoholic. The recovering alcoholics I have met say that they cannot have one drink, because after that, the compulsion is so great that they will not stop until they pass out, run out booze, or have another complication which stops their drinking.
To swing this back toward the topic: Drinking is not against my "religion." I don't have a religion. I have spiritual contact and a philosophy, which is Shamanism. Shamans have no living teachers. They learn to deal with spirits on their own. We can accept long standing wisdom of the teachers of old, but there is no way for us to teach what we know. There are no believers to teach. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:33:25 PM | Not old wives tales
The way you said it, it was." I have heard it," and I call B/S.
It is a compulsion which I do not have. You didn't have to come back and wiggle out of the direct quote. It is there for everyone to read: "I have heard it said." It is what is called an "appeal to authority" and is common in debate. You could also call it a "Red Herring," ie. "Sam drinks everyday, and he is an alcoholic" etc. etc.
If you wish to debate, you need to learn how. You can't get upset just because someone points out a logical flaw in your statements. You can't back out of an inappropriate debate stance. You lose a point. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:44:24 PM | ^^''Adhominem. Meet iggie. You are lucky I don't report.
Address the issue. Don't call the poster a bullshitter. Two points, unless the readers have a problem with comprehension, or you edited your post. You said "I have heard that....."
Most won't bother to read back. If they attack, I will ignore them too. If you cannot learn the rules of debate, and what the points mean, then try another person who enjoys being called a bullshitter and an alcoholic. I don't like ad hominems. You could have a 99% success rate statistically, and I could still be in the one per cent where you are 100% absolutely wrong. You don't know me, and you don't want to. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:45:42 PM | | ....and if God exists, the alcoholics and reprobates, the unfortunate, the disenfranchised, the misbegotten, the p0or, the needy, the ....you get the picture, are welcomed into eternity. Not in most people's circles though. They fall under the lens of judgement. Heck, you do not fit the mold and are more trouble than you are worth, go over here and disappear. Some need to disappear. The very troubled and wounded. The serial killers, the political despots, etc. But why did they arrive? What is their lesson? | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:05:16 PM |
I assume it's meant as a veiled threat which is really funny,
You would ass-u-me?
Leave me out. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:09:56 PM |
....and if God exists, the alcoholics and reprobates, the unfortunate, the disenfranchised, the misbegotten, the p0or, the needy, the ....you get the picture, are welcomed into eternity. Not in most people's circles though. They fall under the lens of judgement. Heck, you do not fit the mold and are more trouble than you are worth, go over here and disappear. Some need to disappear. The very troubled and wounded. The serial killers, the political despots, etc. But why did they arrive? What is their lesson?
I see there is a religion lecture going on here....i'm not sure if i'm welcome....I'm an atheist, obviously, but I think the idea behind heaven is that once entered, you are equal to all others who have entered. I dont think the very wounded would continue to lay around and gush blood from various holes, getting red stains on Jesus' robe while they are in heaven (if it existed).
The poor are not welcomed? What, is the economy as bad in heaven as it is here??
The needy not allowed? Need to disappear? I dont think they would still be needy in, um, heaven. Is heaven having a shortage of food and toilet paper and indoor dwellings?
So basically only the most successful and well put together people, the type who dont tend to dally in religion, except superficially, as an act for neighbors, get into heaven.
And the needy and poor, who heartfeltly pray daily...those ones go to disappear?
Images like this are why I thank Science that heaven does not exist. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:21:12 PM | Images like this are why I thank Science that heaven does not exist.
You might want to reread for context and edit a bit. He was referring to those allowed within religions inner circles vs. what they preach about heaven. His context was pretty good, but I believe I understand the error. For an athiest, you do have a good conception of what heaven should be like. You know if wishes were trees, there would be no global warming. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:43:34 PM | i reread for interpretation......I had already read his post 3 or 4 times to clarify it in my mind. His writing is a little vague, and I think it can be construed that he is talking about the denial of entrance to those unworthy of heaven. If i misinterpreted him, i apologize, but my reply still stands; i will just redirect it towards the circles of elites who look down upon others.
Morality was around long before religion. Religion was created because people had an innate sense of morality. The only thing religion has added to morality was to make it competitive. The market has been cornered on competitive morality. I bet i can build my church bigger than yours. I bet my priests deflowered ALOT less alter boys this year than your priests. Churches even have commercials: "unlike the other leading religious view, WE guarantee a streak free shine everytime!!"
The consequence of all this is that it makes our morality (which was orginally pure) selfish. Religious people view their moral acts as tickets to get into heaven. When an atheist does a moral act, he just does it because it felt right. (okay, maybe it was to impress the hot blonde walking her dog on the corner). But deep down we know that blonde will never give us her phone number anyway...so it really is altruistic..i swear.
greg | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:57:08 PM | | Just a gentle reminder, young one, what is the purpose of the truly ugly? Answer this for me. No answer?? And...I also have a hard time with the simple construct of HEAVEN. Do not believe in heaven. Never did. So don't diss me and misinterpret what I say. You did NOT get my meaning. Remove the blinkers plus all of the rest of you and answer the simple questions. I would not call myself an atheist, neither would I term myself one of the converted to some accepted religious denomination. Explain why you feel that you would welcome a crack-head loser into your inner circle. You wouldn't. You would write them off as the lost. But, did you know that there was once someone that responded to beauty in the same way you have? Did you know that each one that leaves this life in pain, leaves you also closer to the pain. Do not lump me into the safe and finally sorry, young man. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 11:11:31 PM | Morality was around long before religion. Religion was created because people had an innate sense of morality.
I wouldn't know. I wasn't there, and might have to trust a bible or book to figure that out. I don't trust many books, bibles or preachers. I sort of figured religion was created because people died of STD's and trichonosis, so they made it immoral to have sex or eat pork. They had no conciousness of germs, so they said "god was angry" I kind of think they blamed god for things long before they ever became communal enough to care about morality. Of course, in warrior tribes, it is still moral and righteous to defeat your enemies through means which others might not agree with. A common and time worn secular expression reveals the nature of the altruism in secular morality: "All is fair in love and war."
You should consider your own morals, and not act like atheism is a religion of altruistic people. As far as I know, there is not a consensus "morality" among any large atheist groups. You almost sound like you are preaching the holiness of a religion called "Atheism." Maybe you should do a commercial? Atheists are just as capable of perversion, murder, and criminality as the god fearing. You don't have as many commandments and ordinances as the religious. That might make your lawfulness a little easier to accomplish. You might consider the psychological effects of being burdened with so many "nit-picking" moral guidelines as cause and effect for a comparison, but that would be a tough row to hoe. | |
|
| Does God exist?
Posted: 7/2/2009 11:27:03 PM | ^^
"A study says......"
"The Bible says...."
"I have heard that....."
"My mommy told me...."
You guys should do a commercial. Figures lie, and liars figure. When most people are asked what religion they are, they say one. Even if there is a check box for "athiest," people get strangely religious in prison. You get some time to go to the chapel. | |
|
|
| Page 71 of 75
|
35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75 |
|
Home
login 
