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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 7:22:49 PM |
So where did all this new earth come from that highlights the point I try to make to you... oh yeah... it was already there? No! life creates way more than it uses. There have been some dinosaur fossils found over 2000 meters down If everything was transforming equally... Where the hell did it all come from?
The fact that you don't understand the physics and chemistry involved doesn't make it wrong.
*I* don't understand the forces that drive economic markets, but I'm also not saying that money grows on trees.
There's really no sense talking with you. You don't understand what you're talking about, yet you make grandiose claims. What's the point? | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 7:34:11 PM |
There's really no sense talking with you. You don't understand what you're talking about, yet you make grandiose claims. What's the point?
Okay... you must be right... obviously when the earth first formed it was the size it is now... there has been no increase in it's mass in the past 4.5 billion years. (not)
It feels like I'm back in bible class as they attempt to brain wash you with "And God made us man and women in his image, and we have been the same since creation" | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 7:41:18 PM | When the Earth formed, AFTER the impact that formed the Moon, it was approximately the same size as it was now. Yes. There's been some influx through meteorites. There's also been some loss due to atmospheric stripping. All of this is pretty well understood. You? have no idea what you're talking about, and no evidence to back it up except for the ravings of a cartoonist.
You're speaking from ignorance... all I'm doing is telling you to do the research, educate yourself... who, exactly, do you think is trying to brainwash you? | |
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Posted: 10/17/2008 8:05:15 PM | | He said it... clearly... in his post.... brainwashing = religion | |
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Posted: 10/17/2008 8:33:02 PM | As the song says: "Here we go 'round in circles."
The difference is that we haven't been the same "since creation." And there are people who have been out there, doing the science for years. Now, this guy who does cartoons is supposed to usurp them all with a neat but baseless cartoon to "prove" them wrong?
Perhaps the reason the land masses fit together is because they were together once. In a giant continent that split up and floated off on a sea of magma.
By the way, do you have any idea just how think Earth's crust is in relation to the rest of the planet? I'm pretty sure the cartoonist doesn't either. And neither of you have answered the fundamental question - where did all this water come if it wasn't on the surface before?
Seriously, though, I've said it before. If you want to believe in a "growing earth," then go ahead. Just don't be surprised if, when you post something, someone doesnt' challenge it. That's kinda the point of these forums. Fora? Fori? | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 8:51:07 PM |
By the way, do you have any idea just how think Earth's crust is in relation to the rest of the planet? I'm pretty sure the cartoonist doesn't either. And neither of you have answered the fundamental question - where did all this water come if it wasn't on the surface before?
I'll refer you to apart of one of his open letters
"...Geologists then say, that once assembled into planets, moons, and suns…this activity gave us a molten (from all the friction of assembly) differentiated Earth. Differentiated … like in a caldron…melted in that, the lightest material rose to the surface … which was presumably granitic rock … then down to basalts … then heavier silicates at the bottom, or core, you have iron and the heavier elements.
Let us say we accepted this whole wrong scenario
… The Earth finished, cools in time … The Earth must then be coated completely by a 2 – 4 mile crust of light granitic rock, and under that we find basalts.
Comparing that to today’s world we find an Earth that merely has pieces of this granitic crust. We went from an Earth completely covered with a relatively thick outer crust of granitic rock to a few, seven, scattered pieces that we call continents…. Where is the rest of the crust?
The only time geologists admit to us that massive crust is gone is when they come up with theories like the one where a rogue planet comes barreling through space and grazes Earth. Rips off a massive chunk … or “peels off the crust” … that’s one of my favorites, and deposits it in orbit to be our moon. Unlike all the other moons in our solar system, which were made by what? Other rogue planets? Ming the Merciless? …Rogue planets? This is fantasy.
Added together these continental upper plate areas cover only between one third to one quarter of the Earth. Where is the rest of the outer crust? Three quarters of it seems to be missing. It has to be somewhere, This much stuff can’t disappear. If we got it back it would give us four times the continental surface and mass than we have now!
I think the continental crust … is the whole crust of a smaller Earth. In fact, it all does fit together on a smaller Earth.
Granitic rock cannot subduct as geologists insist the oceanic plate does, because it’s too light! This is fact!
This alone disproves the pangea theory! Granitic rock cannot subduct. Yet, three quarters, twenty one continents worth, is gone! Simply gone. No explanation!
I say this: Earth was progressively smaller as we go back in time over 4 – 5 billion years it grew from a small planetesimal to a planet the size of Mars. The increasing speed of growth increased exponentially. The heat under the crust from this growth increased as it grew and the thin thick crust cracked more profoundly, and 2 – 4 miles deep, and over the final 200 million years rifted the ocean to reveal new deeper basalt plate until we have the Earth we see today...." ~http://www.nealadams.com/nmu.html | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 9:01:59 PM | *throwing hands up* Well, tell you what Lightstorm. When Neal Adams produces some kind of qualification in geology, astronomy, geophysics, astrophysics, and any number of related fields, I'll be more than happy to give his "theory" (and that's using the word very generously) all the consideration it is due.
In the meantime, I'm going to go with those who've actually done the science and know absolutely nothing about drawing cartoons.
Still not answered the question about the water. Darn those sticking points!
Edit: Oh, and by the way, that number "2 to 4 miles" is pretty much pulled out of his a$$. We have mines here in Ontario that go deeper than that.
The actual thickness of the crust is about 100 miles deep. As for his issues with subduction, well, considering there have been some pretty massive upthrust earthquakes in the western half of the continent where there is a known subduction zone, not to mention the upthrust earthquake that caused the Indonesian tsunami pretty much blows that out of the water.
Unless, of course, Mr. Adams can come up with a theory about how rock split apart can cause land to thrust upward! Indeed, if that is the case, shouldn't the worst earthquakes be shared here in the eastern half of North America since we're not far, generally speaking, from a massive rift in the mid Atlantic? | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 10:02:12 PM | OK peeps...just joined POF...first time forum poster and was shocked to see the video that went around the world of geoscientists as a bizarre joke!
The long and the short of it is that Plate tectonic processes have been going on be going on for at least 3.6+ billion years based on radiometic dating. Island arcs such as the Aleutian chain and various south pacific arcs collide and accrete to form ever larger continents. Cratons such as the Canadian Shield are the product of many collisions over the eons.
What drives continental drift is somewhat of a debate...however the original earth's crust was comprised of almost exclusively of basalt (no granite) which is lower in silicon. Basalt may be slightly denser than the underlying mantle, and eventually starts to sink, causing a rift and a subduction zone. The Atlantic ocean margins of The Americas on the west and Europe and Africa in the east will eventually sink, cause a subduction zone that will reverse the spreading of the Atlantic, and cause the continents to reassemble.
As for growing earth, it certainly will grow slightly due to micro and larger meteorite accretion, however the planet will slowly shrink in volume as the planets interior cools. The heat of the earths mantle is partially due to the decay of radioactive elements. As these elements slowly decay into stable daughter products, the earths interior will cool slightly, causing very minor contraction. There are examples of this with certain moons in our solar system and the recent Nasa satellite observing fault lines on the planet Mercury.
Just joined the forum, but lemme know if you have any other slightly dull geologic questions. | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 10:14:43 PM | Welcome to the forums 'gold miner12' Those are some very cute animals you have displayed on your profile.
Just joined the forum, but lemme know if you have any other slightly dull geologic questions.
Why do all the continents fit so perfectly together on a much smaller planet? If the planet was always the size it was now... that would seem mathematically impossible. | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 10:27:42 PM | Because they once WERE connected. Plate tectonics explains that, and the movement of the continents is measured, constantly. The annual measured rates of drift are consistant with the ages of past connections and radiometric dating of shared rock formations.
There's no no massive source of energy magically creating more matter.
There's no rational reason matter would be created from below...and bury things from above.
Adams is a fool. He can't make rational arguments supported by evidence any better than the average forum troll. It's remarkable ANYone would be convinced. | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/17/2008 11:25:36 PM |
Because they once WERE connected. Plate tectonics explains that, and the movement of the continents is measured, constantly. The annual measured rates of drift are consistant with the ages of past connections and radiometric dating of shared rock formations.
Its one thing to cut them all out and make a big funny looking island out of them... the point I'm trying to make is that if it all started out as a big funny looking island... what are the chances of that big funny looking island shape into a perfect sphere? So why does it?
Adams is a fool. He can't make rational arguments supported by evidence any better than the average forum troll. It's remarkable ANYone would be convinced.
Adams is an advocate for the theory...
You want a bit of a history lesson on how far back this goes?
Roberto Mantovani, violinist and scientist,born in Parma on March 25, 1854. ...He argued that, on a global scale, all the continents might have undergone the same disjunction processes as the volcanic flanks. The global fractures are today the oceans. After several years from his observations, Mantovani published his idea in 1889 in the Bulletin of the Societé des Sciences et des Arts of Saint Denis, where the Italian established his family and became Consul of Italy... ...The enlarging of the huge fractures formed all oceans. We had to wait the sixties to find the same kind of lines in the Indian and Atlantic oceans in plate tectonics. According to plate tectonics this is not true for the Pacific Ocean, because in this case the plate movement is inverse and the ocean tends towards closing. The 1909 Pacific map was forgotten, and only Mantovani’s Pangea representation is reproduced today in some books dealing with the history of science.http://www.earth-prints.org/handle/2122/2017
Ott Christoph Hilgenberg in twentieth-century geophysics (1896-1976) The events took place between America and Berlin: in America from 1925 to 1928 the young Hilgenberg, with a diploma in Mechanical Engineering, worked as a Geophysicist in an oil prospecting company. It was there that he probably developed his interdisciplinary ideas, which, influenced in various ways by the European cultural climate, brought him into the field of global tectonics. He conceived a theory about the expansion of the Earth based on the nature of the gravity field. In 1933, the theory was published in his classic work 'Vom wachsenden Erdball'. Upon his return in Germany he performed various types of research at the School of Engineering, then that of Geology and Paleontology at the Technical University of Berlin. He was also briefly involved as editor of the scientific publications at the Technical University of Berlin, where he made a contribution towards saving the book collection as the war ended. During the years spent in Berlin, he continued to refine his elegant version of the theory of Earth’s expansion publishing articles and books on this subject up to the last years in his life. The importance of Hilgenberg lies in the fact that he marks the beginning of the integration of various scientific disciplines from Physics to Paleontology and Paleomagnetism, in support of a universal tectonic theory, and that he made paleogeographic reconstructions on globes with smaller radii than the present one. All those who have worked or are working with one of the versions of expansion tectonics owe him enormous gratitude for his inspiration and for the scientific and moral lesson of fifty years spent in unflagging defence of his ideas. The material gathered and kindly made available by his daughter Helge has been indispensable for this recalling. http://www.earth-prints.org/handle/2122/2015
Emeritus Professor Samuel Warren Carey passed away on 20 March 2002 at age 90. He was born at Campbelltown, New South Wales on 1st November 1911. ...Carey – using the orocline concept – generalised his views on movement between continents, demonstrating that the continents could fit together better if the Earth was smaller in size.... http://www.earth-prints.org/handle/2122/2016
There are many more like them, you just need to look them up | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 7:10:44 AM | Okay now, having just taken another look at the video, I noticed the technology he ussed to make those videos.
Now I do not know what package he ussed, but there is some version of morphing technology ussed (a CGI tech that alows one image to blended through to another in 3d and through a series of graduations). This is the same tech that alows modern film makers to make people turn into wolves or vampires. The tell tales sighns are there and its the simplest tech to use for such a project.
The problem with this is that with morphing tecnology you can make anything appear to happen. I can make myslef turn into a wolf with a morphing program, but that dose not make me a werewolf.
There are some subtle tell tale signs that show the limits of the tech he ussed, such as the blending and bluring of coastlines, the bending of continental masses to fit the new sphere and the subduction of areas like Britain and Tazmania.
Finally, there is one further problem that he did not acount for, the fact that the coastline dose not difine the continents. In his models, all land masses move towards each other, untill the water is gone. But there are many areas of water that he has disapear, that are continetal seas! Britain for example, is part of the continent of Eastern Europe. Yet he has britain drift towards france! The English chanel is not a fault zone nor has it ever been. England and France are part of the same landmass, joined under a shallow sea.
His videos are completely bull! | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 7:25:50 AM |
The problem with this is that with morphing tecnology you can make anything appear to happen. I can make myslef turn into a wolf with a morphing program, but that dose not make me a werewolf.
This was pretty much my first thought when I saw the videos as well... After doing more study into it, I found he was just creating a computer model based on the works of REAL models Ott Christoph Hilgenberg had made out of metal. The metal ball is made up of the plates as they are today, when they descend they fit together near perfectly on a much smaller planet. To me (and I think I said this before) Adams most convincing arguments are not of Earth or mars, but his model of Europa. You can view it here and tell me what you think of it.
http://www.continuitystudios.net/clip02.html | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 4:55:08 PM |
Adams most convincing arguments are not of Earth or mars, but his model of Europa.
I'll refer you back to page two and my post (number 45, It think).
It doesn't matter which body you apply it to, it still doesn't work. Planets, nor moons, "grow." | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 5:09:30 PM | That must be the wackiest theory I have ever seen. Planets growing? LOL. The only growth this planet has experienced was likely "Thea", which ended up becoming both the moon and the Earth's core. I would assume that a tectonically active planet like ours would eventually start to shrink, if nothing else. *
* I am not a geologist. At all. | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 6:42:33 PM | That must be the wackiest theory I have ever seen. Planets growing? LOL. The only growth this planet has experienced was likely "Thea", which ended up becoming both the moon and the Earth's core. I would assume that a tectonically active planet like ours would eventually start to shrink, if nothing else. *
Laugh it up
Thea is an interesting story, but I kinda like to reserve judgment for things that are factual. The truth about inner earth is we don't know anything about it. The USSR dug a hole 7 miles down before they stopped but they already blew several pre-conceived mis-conceptions about the earth out the window. What we know about the earths inner core is that it bounces sesmic readings back 'like' iron... and thats a big might, because every time I look up info on the inner core, scietists are quickly shoveling all kinds of other elements 'that we know exist' into the equations to prove the math works... how about this idea... The earths core is made up of radiative elements that we 'don't' know exist, and this stuff knows how to create matter causing the planet to grow. (oh, and it bounces seismic readings back like it has a similar competition to iron mixed in with various other metals)
Prove me wrong | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 8:13:48 PM | "radiative" materials that "knows how to create matter." Yeah.
Umm... You really, really, REALLY need to get yourself a basic science education before you start trying to tear down the very foundations of particle physics (among other disciplines).
Let me draw you an "arts" analogy: Suppose one felt the Mona Lisa really needed eyebrows. Now, there are a number of reasons for her to NOT have eyebrows, including some that I'm sure followed da Vinci to his grave. But, let's assume that one felt for some arcane reason she needed eyebrows.
One way to approach this might be to complete a formal training and education in art, specializing in Renaissance oil techniques, and re-create the Mona Lisa as she would have appeared with eyebrows. I, and much of the rest of the world would applaud this artist for creativity and dedication.
Another way to approach this might be to take a can of black spray lacquer and spray some eyebrows on the original.
You're approaching science in the second manner. Just saying, is all. | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 8:49:52 PM |
Let me draw you an "arts" analogy: Suppose one felt the Mona Lisa really needed eyebrows. Now, there are a number of reasons for her to NOT have eyebrows, including some that I'm sure followed da Vinci to his grave. But, let's assume that one felt for some arcane reason she needed eyebrows.
Interesting analogy... here's another one for you... Mona Lisa sits in a room with 20 painters all painting a picture of her in a variety of different ways. Hey... some of them might even include eyebrows. The use of color and brush strokes win da vinci the gold star, and people far and wide hear of the splendid job and don't care to look at other possibility's, because... Oh... master DaVinci did it... I need not bother opening my eyes or mind to other possibility's.
Tonight I took two videos If you want to repeat my little project open this link in one browser. Don't push play on either of them.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QDqskltCixA
Open this link in another browser
http://www.continuitystudios.net/clip12.html
Put them side by side and press play on the YouTube video, when the narrator gets to the part where she says "Strap yourself in, it's going to be a bumpy ride... press play on the growing earth video :) You will have done what I just did, and the narrator just sounds like shes describing a cluster fu** in comparison to the simplicity and seemingly simple growing earth animation (no narration on this growing earth animation, only music)... try it, your going to love it :)
The growing earth theory can easily explain many things t.t. theory's are still 'baffled' and confused by... maybe that's because the best painting isn't always the most popular one.
'Shakes his can of spray paint'
James | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 8:58:09 PM | Roof hasn't fell in yet so apparently the walls of my house haven't moved apart in the past week or so.. | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 9:06:16 PM |
Roof hasn't fell in yet so apparently the walls of my house haven't moved apart in the past week or so..
Yah well, if either subduction or spreading kicked in by what ever goes on under us.... you might have to kiss those walls and roof goodbye :) | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 9:40:35 PM | Now I am curious. I would like to know how this expanding of the Earth is known to be exponential. Are we sure it isn't a geometric expansion? If you could provide for me the equation for the rate of expansion, I would appreciate it. Also, I'm interested in the mechanism of expansion, i.e., the force driving it, and the system of equations that would govern it. I'm very familiar with the equations that cover gravitation, and some of the equations that help when dealing with hydrostatic equilibrium models, and I would love to compare them.
Thanks, Mike. | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 10:02:42 PM | Yes the earth is expanding...in parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ11rwIt2lo&feature=related
The ocean floor slabs throughout many parts of the earth are actually lowering into the earth's mantle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPoE7hVDJY4
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 10:03:28 PM | Dude, it just kind of HAPPENS. The substances in the center of the Earth know how to make new matter.
You can't put EQUATIONS to that kind of mystical happening. What the hell are you thinking? | |
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| the earth is growing
Posted: 10/20/2008 10:11:45 PM | It's an analogy. It's not supposed to be a perfect representation.
Present one iota. One speck. One DOT of evidence that the Earth is growing even 1/100th as fast as it would have to for this "growing Earth" fantasy to be even remotely real.
Seriously, dude, you haven't even been issued a crayon. | |
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