| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 3/12/2009 8:32:58 PM | Wendy
When does a baby become conscious? That's a tough one to answer. The best info I can think of is to ask science. If I had any doubt or it was right on the line then I would keep the baby, if I were a woman.
Overcrowded orphanage or death. I would choose orphanage. But maybe the baby would choose death after growing up all dissatisfied with life. I would let the baby make that decision. Since I'm not a mind reader then I will go with the route that gives the baby the most choices. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:10:13 PM | Abortion is an interesting issue. I tend to think of it in different terms. For me someone who has done what they can to NOT become pregnant, is like the person who has made sure they have locks on the doors and windows of their home, as well as other safety methods to keep bad people out. Yet, someone still breaks in.
So one does quickly what one can to remove the invader. Doesn't always mean one has to kill the invader. But the fact is, one has done ahead of time what they can and is left with whatever results are there. Getting to a doctor/clinic and getting the morning after pill is akin to calling 911 and getting help NOW, not next week.
While I support abortion 100% for rape incest to save the life of the mother I also believe that the choice is the woman's. But.... I also dislike with a passion, women who have made the choice to have sex, refuse to be real women and do what they can to prevent a pregnancy, or are to immature to decide on abortion EARLY and wait until they have a fetus that may well feel pain when aborted. Even dogs and cats who are put down are done so in a compassionate way.
And as someone who comes from a family who has adopted a lot of over the age of 5, children, I am always intrigued how few pro life folks ever adopt. Or become foster parents. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 4/8/2009 7:39:17 AM |
Sirs:
A word of warning to those proponents of government-funded abortion: the government may *appear* to go along with killing like that for awhile, but I'll bet that if you get involved in any intrauterine atrocities or anything, you could really wind up with your ass on the first hole tee, if you know what I mean.
Bill "Rusty" Calley
Dothan, Ala. | |
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tml721
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Joined: 4/3/2009
Msg: 254 | |
| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 4/20/2009 12:54:13 PM | The problem I have with Abortion other than the morality of it is, what if the woman's mother had the oportunity to abort her!?? Would that have happened?? The Democratic is party is the one largely in favor of this and so far they've managed to destoy the basr of their future!! Then they want to bring in ILLEGALs who BTW, may vote democrat but when asked about issues, such as gay marrage, they vote the way of the catholic church which is largly profamilY!!!
I doubt if this problem will ever go away soon. woman and possibly a few stupid men, wil be getting pregnant will be faced with a delemah on what to do about an unwannted pregnancy. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/25/2009 8:00:48 PM | I believe the option for abortion should not be abolished however before doing so if there is an option for adoption to another familly then that should be explored.
Abortion should be an option if a parent feels they are not capable to take of the child. Why waste a childs life if they are not getting all the care they need. It does not pain me to say this but the thought of me not being around because of this decision. My mom never had the capacity to care for me in all levels (to raise me and the monetary needs ...) She is mentally disabled and I had been ward of a foster agency. Being a child in foster care you don't get the love and attention like one would from your own blood. I have been a foster kid pretty much all my life and I know it could of been alot worse but nonetheless why should any child go through this if its already predetermined that the mother or parents cannot provide that care.
My aunt was begged and forced by her sisters to take me in. So she did but she heart was not ready and not all that willing since she had alot on her plate with her own familly she was raising and still recovering from her big bout of depression. When your heart is not ready and that my mom and her had a history of not getting along. (yeah that is screwed up) ; and so as you may have figured out I got treated like crap physically and verbally and controlled.
On a slightly different angle somewhat communist and controversial I regress but I think it would be best to fix everyone who is born and once a mature person decides to want to have kids they will need to have a procedure to untie there knot ...; but before getting this procedure done you will need to get an assessment done to gauge to see if you mentally ( not disabled and able to take care of yourself and the financially sound to care for a child. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/28/2009 5:13:07 AM | | Government shouldn't be in the business of regulating reproduction. That's Nazi territory. Legal abortion? Yes. 58 kids without a dollar in your pocket or a lick of sense in your head? Absolutely. Personal choice is paramount to freedom. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 7/28/2009 7:30:51 PM | My view on abortion is based on the Bible heavy words in the OT if an unborn legitimate baby is terminated it is a capital offense. If the baby is conceived any other way (rape, incest, fornication) its life is up to its mother if she is righteous she is expected to keep and raise the child as if it is a gift from God or give it to another. Its father should be put to death or if they can run to a "sinners city" fast enough life in exile in case of rape or incest. If it is conceived by adultery she, it and the father should all be killed by public stoning or pardoned by the spouse(s).
If a woman kills her unborn baby it is the sin of murder that will be on her list she will hear it read off with all her other choices and everything that resulted from each as she stands before the only one who can judge her and that is not going to be me. I am not going to say she can't because God gave us all free will. I will say she should not get pregnant in the first place as my President advises, birth control being free in most areas in the USA. I will say please give the child away. I will say the church has programs to help you and here is a list of places the government has that you can get and things you can do. I will say please do not kill your baby. Please. If I know her I will cry and beg. I will not tell her she can't because everyone knows she can. I will not lie to her. I will not force her. I will not threaten her. I will not pay for the murder to take place. I would like to be sure my tax money did not either.
As I stand before my judge and hear my list I do not want usurper to be on it as it is on the list of anyone who sits in judgment or takes a persons right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. As I said before to kill a person because it may cramp your style is selfish and cruel. To not support a person who is your blood, to burn him out of his home cut him up starve him to death because you do not like the crime its father did to you or he is too sickly is wrong. I think that educating people on the stakes may slow the rate down. I believe women do not really want to kill babies and if they have a choice they will not. Every time I have given a woman a way to spare the baby's life she has taken it. I do not think that it is her fault if she miscarries or gets so sick that it is her or the baby's life. I hope that laws will always protect the woman's right to live even if the baby has to die. I hope states can ban abortions for any other reason and support the children that will be born. If the baby is 5 months along it can be put up for adoption instead of killed and the technology is getting better and better soon I bet we will be able to adopt a baby and grow it in our own womb. Have you heard of a snowflake baby? | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/8/2009 8:06:40 AM |
As I said before to kill a person because it may cramp your style is selfish and cruel.
Abortion = selfish and cruel
If the baby is conceived any other way (rape, incest, fornication) its life is up to its mother if she is righteous she is expected to keep and raise the child as if it is a gift from God or give it to another. Its father should be put to death .......If it is conceived by adultery she, it and the father should all be killed by public stoning or pardoned by the spouse(s).
Father/mother and baby put to death = biblical justice
Makes sense to me...../sarcasm | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/8/2009 8:33:41 AM | To me Abortion is a personal decision between the woman and her doctor, for it is her body.
Personally for myself I believe that it would be no different than if I went out and murdered someone. That is me and my personal feelings about my own body.
I will have to say that I was appalled by a girl's statement on the Judge Mathis show yesterday, just as Mathis himself was. The girl was suing some guy because he did not come up with the money for an abortion so now she was going to have to have the child. Turns out neither one of them knowingly used any contraceptives but had an agreement that if anything happened they would share in the expense of an abortion. Now that did upset and sicken me, along with the judge and most of the studio audience too.
I personally would like to see the government leave the abortion issue as it stands now . | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/10/2009 12:43:04 PM | "The Democratic is party is the one largely in favor of this"
Interesting perspective... particularly considering that for the past many years, 7 of the 9 Supreme Court justices were Republican president appointments... yet Roe v. Wade continues to be the case supporting the law...
Perhaps this is so because the justices have concluded that government should not be so intrusive as to penetrate a woman's womb... | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/10/2009 9:58:32 PM |
Father/mother and baby put to death = biblical justice
Makes sense to me...../sarcasm
If any of the three are to be killed why the baby? It did not do anything wrong its mom and dad did the dirty deed. Do not answer that I do not want any one to die. I am not going to keep a rock in my pocket should occasion arise lol. They should all live and its parents be forgiven that is what pardoned means. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/10/2009 10:20:26 PM |
If any of the three are to be killed why the baby?
I have absolutely no idea why any of them should be killed. Even more unbelievable is the fact that someone thought fit to promote this concept of justice.
Nevertheless, these are your own words, taken from post 257. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/29/2009 6:30:10 PM | Oh I see take a part of a post and twist until useful.
Back to the topic only 8% of abortions are done for reasons such as rape of mother's life is at risk less than 6% because of malformation or illness of the fetus. BHO idea that we should reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancy would put the abortion machine out of business. That is why I voted for him and not the liar who is not doing his job well at all. Who goes to work just to goof off and push all the work on to his co-workers and then grip about how they do it? He should be fired like any of us would be. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 9/30/2009 3:59:52 PM | Thank GOD we have the first amendment...
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/6/2009 10:36:15 PM | the right to life should not be set aside for the sake of parental comfort. That is the founders belief yes people had abortions in the 1700's as they always did. Back then they took a stand giving every one the right to live.
Now you can have the baby induced at 5 months and it will live with two people who care for it. Why kill it? Plain meanness? www.nrtl.org | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/7/2009 8:34:46 PM |
Oh I see take a part of a post and twist until useful.
Uh no. That is your entire post. Instead of parental comfort, you would have the right to life constrained by biblical justice. Death to the adulterers, and to the product of their adultery. So sayeth you.
And by the way, the link you are attempting to provide is www.nrlc.org - "National Right to Life." | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/8/2009 10:11:40 AM | That is the founders belief yes people had abortions in the 1700's as they always did. Back then they took a stand giving every one the right to live.
FALSE.
During the 1700's, under the common law, the abortion procedure was divided into two stages "pre-quickening" and "post-quickening" (i.e., the first recognizable movement of the fetus in utero). Prior to quickening, abortion of the foetus was not an indictable offense. This period was was around the first 16 to 18 weeks of the pregnancy. After quickening, whether abortion was a crime is disupted; at most it was considered manslaughter but was more commonly considered a misdemeanor. This comes from English law. The more familiar abortion laws that we have in the United States did not start to appear until after the Civil War, around the late 1860's and it was not until almost 100 years later, in the 1950's, that a large majority of the states banned abortion; a majority of these jurisdictions still held exceptions for the life of the mother. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/14/2009 12:45:40 PM | In defining my own position on the matter I would only propose that these decisions should be made within the enlightenment that occurs in the presence of free choice, if that is at all possible to achieve. I would also indicate that all life is precious and that all life should be preserved and nourished if at all possible. Having said this we can observe in nature that animals, make the ineffable choices, absent disengaged contemplation, to abort their fetuses and abandon their young in the presence of particular environmental stimuli.
To the ongoing debate, to the extent it has any relevance; regarding when life begins it would be difficult to arrive at any conclusion other than the one that promotes that life begins at conception. It may not be sustainable outside the womb for some time however it is life no less. Any variation of this is only defined within the context of easing the burden associated with the immense difficulty of the choice. To promote that a fetus does not constitute life because it cannot exist independently outside the womb is no more valid that promoting that a baby is not a living organism because it cannot live independent of the nurturing of its parent(s).
These suggestions are not offered up to attempt to invoke guilt or to support one side of the debate at the expense of the other they are merely offered in the interest of clarifying informative, free, and unencumbered choice. It will be enough for the individual or individuals making the choice, insofar is it relates personally to them, to reconcile their choice. Any further judgment by society is of little added value. These choices will be made within the context of the environmental considerations within which the individual finds themselves.
Alas, I might conclude that I advocate pro choice and that within the context of a free society I hope that the choice is one that supports life. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:55:36 PM |
The Democratic is party is the one largely in favor of this
What I find interesting and ironic is that the same political party that will go the ends of the earth to defend the worthless miserable lives of terrorists, who by definition blow up innocent people, are also willing to go to the ends of the earth to legalize and legitimize those who are willing to poke holes in an (innocent) unborn child's head, suck it's brains into a sink, rip it's limbs off, and dispose of the remains in a garbage sack.
At least we know that they are consistent.
At least we know their character.
TK | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:59:01 PM | Would the left be up in arms if someone was to open a abortion clinic for dogs and cats?
For the record I think that abortion should be a state issue. Not a federal issue. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/14/2009 9:18:46 PM |
Would the left be up in arms if someone was to open a abortion clinic for dogs and cats?
Why would anyone be up-in-arms over that? Every veterinary clinic is essentially a dog and cat abortion clinic, since dogs and cats and other animals can be given various prostaglandins and other hormones, which are essentially the same as the RU486 drug that is available in the states. Too bad many women aren't afforded the same privilege with drugs to end early pregnancy. Every gynaecologist's office should dispense prescriptions for morning-after pills/RU486 or referral for abortion on request and every pharmacy should be required by law to fill those scripts. In that manner, a gynaecologist's visit would become as "full-service" as the average veterinarian's office.
Dog and cat owners aren't compelled to cross picket lines at abortion clinics or travel across the country to obtain an abortion. There are no battles for legislative restrictions, no intimidation, no stigmatization, and no threats of injury or death. I don't ever remember hearing of a veterinary clinic or veterinarians facing stalkings, death threats, assaults, bombings, butyric acid attacks, valdalism, burglaries or other harassments. | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/15/2009 8:34:02 PM |
What I find interesting and ironic is that the same political party that will go the ends of the earth to defend the worthless miserable lives of terrorists, who by definition blow up innocent people, are also willing to go to the ends of the earth to legalize and legitimize those who are willing to poke holes in an (innocent) unborn child's head, suck it's brains into a sink, rip it's limbs off, and dispose of the remains in a garbage sack.
At least we know that they are consistent.
At least we know their character.
The issue of abortion should be and will remain a choice that a woman will make concerning what she wants.
You seem to have conveniently forgoten the 100s of thousands of innocent men women and children who became death statistics as we chased down terrorist in Iraq that were in Afganistan, don't walking talking human beings have a meaning to you? Did those innocent civilians have a choice? | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:36:53 PM |
Did those innocent civilians have a choice? Not really sure how that is relevant did they have any more choice than the babies who are murdered because women are exercising their "choice" ....did a quick search over 1,000,000 abortions are performed each year in America...that is more than 5'300 times more than the number of lives lost in the War to date....any lives lost is sad...but come on trying to compare people dying in war to babies being murdered in the womb...thats just Wrong..... | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:24:17 PM |
but come on trying to compare people dying in war to babies being murdered in the womb
You are right. It's not remotely comparable.
Those people who have been killed or displaced during wartimes had feelings, consciousness, familes, thoughts, ideas, and relationships. Comparing the value of a living, breathing person to that of a speck of embryonic tissue is a shocking insult to people who have been persecuted in a war. A 1st trimester abortion removes cell tissue that has no sensation or awareness or thoughts or feelings or experience of any kind. Zero. By the end of the first trimester, neural pathways have barely been formed, but are not yet sending transmissions. There is zero consciousness. Early embryos can actually be frozen, stored for years, which of course is not possible with developed human beings.
The fetus is not a full human being, but a POTENTIAL as an acorn is the potential to an oak tree. Thus a fetus itself, until born, does not have HUMAN rights. Murder is the illegal act of killing another human being. Abortion is not murder because the fetus is not a human being.
Do you think your own life is worth the same as an embryo?
Namaste....... | |
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| Abortion & Politics
Posted: 10/16/2009 3:16:48 PM |
What I find interesting and ironic is that the same political party that will go the ends of the earth to defend the worthless miserable lives of terrorists, who by definition blow up innocent people, are also willing to go to the ends of the earth to legalize and legitimize those who are willing to poke holes in an (innocent) unborn child's head, suck it's brains into a sink, rip it's limbs off, and dispose of the remains in a garbage sack.
At least we know that they are consistent.
At least we know their character.
TK
What I find interesting is that Republicans had 6 Years of rule to stop abortion and they didn't do anything. I guess as far as political parties go there's one party that SAYS they are anti-abortion but neither willing to do anything about it. Might be better for some people not to put all of their chips into a party that's lying to them. | |
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