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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/16/2007 11:45:35 AM | Diva, making such broad generalizations about the U.S. in the negative and positive ones about other countries isnt exactly fair.
The Armenian and Rwandan genocides didnt happen here. Neither did the Khmer Rouge. Do you even know who Pol Pot was? Yes, we did put the bulk of the Japanese Americans into POW style camps during WW2. After the towers went down did we put all Muslim Americans into prisons? At least were making progress in this country.
Many, not all, Spainiards let a terrorist act influence their vote. But take a wild guess as to what will happe n the next time the polls show figures that dont please the extemest world.
But there are indeed people from other countries that will smile at ya. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/16/2007 11:58:40 AM | And Oldsoul,
Its sometimes racism. From almost all the people Ive talked to personally its an issue of fairness, equal standards for everyone. The people I know travel the world legally. They are also fine with temporary laborers coming over and then leaving. They would like to see it done by the rules. If necessary rewrite the rules. At least then our words and actions match. Why is that concept lost on so many people?
If you believe in the idea of equality then lets ask Mexico to look the other way when someday they become rich and we poor Americans are running over the border because we sat by and allowed our country to become a cesspool.
No taxation without representation. Its an old Revolutionary War phrase. How about "No representation with out taxation"? If we pay taxes on our piece of the pie then so should they. Now THERES an idea for equality. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/16/2007 3:08:39 PM | Sd Matt
Pol Pot is not a good example to use since the chaos caused by the illegal bombing of Cambodia by the U.S. helped lead to the rise of Pol Pot
Anyone know the time frame for the paperwork for a Mexican to enter the U.S. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/16/2007 3:09:28 PM |
Difference is that when my family immigrated here (in the 30's) they went through the official channels. They leanred english, and worked within the accepted system
and that is true for most of us Americans..unlike these darn Mexicans who walk accross the border....... wait...... what if......what if our impoverished ancestors and their neighbors didnt have the Altantic or Pacific Ocean in the way? how many of the Irish (my ancestors) would have walked accross the border during the several potato famines? gee, maybe a few million of them wouldnt have died. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/16/2007 11:49:28 PM | Diva
I am a Native American also but I do not want or need you to apologize for me! to these worthless illegal mexican immigrants that have destroyed their own lands and are coming here and destroying these lands, you can apologize all you want for yourslef but leave other people out of it!!!!!!!!!
Another thing all the land was not stolen I will agree that some was but some of this land was traded and for meaningless things the Cheifs desired and desired so much that they traded the land and even some of their own women. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 12:24:00 AM | "Anyone know the time frame for the paperwork for a Mexican to enter the U.S"
I could be wrong but, if not changed, there is no immigration quota granted for Mexico, neither the country is included in the green card annual lottery.
Family reunification might take (total) about eight-ten years. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 7:41:45 AM | I had to pipe in on this thread...........tell me to butt out..............lol .... but I had to ask ;
WHISPER -MSG-23
You say that you are all for people coming to America by legal means (which I agree with by the way ) but I fail to see how your folks coming over on the MAYFLOWER was a legal process ??
Didn't they just decide to up and off and "settle this great country ? " regardless of a hostile welcome and mundane legalities ?
Must be felling a bit thick today but :
OP :
You say that your forefathers were roaming America way before anybody else and yet you are African American ................??
Has the Native American been sidelined yet again..?
....... history been rewritten again ,due to PC ? | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 8:35:21 AM |
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Recognize this?
Maybe if people were ABLE to provide for the well-being of their families where they already live, the temptation to undertake a dangerous journey at great expense and with an uncertain ending would be drastically minimized. But I've been slammed on here before for suggesting that maybe the US could work with the Mexican government to create a plan for economic development THERE so people won't feel like they have to come HERE to feed their families. It'd have to be cheaper than erecting thousands of miles of fence and providing the "security" to monitor it! But hey, why bother with humanitarian efforts when you can just provide some white supremicist with a gun and let him march around in his camo feeling like a big man. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 9:01:33 AM | As to the statue of liberty issue, check this link http://www.illegalaliens.us/statueofliberty.htm
When you talk about white supremacists with guns on the border, I take it you are referring to the minutemen? Are you aware the minutemen are a multi-racial organization and accept members of all races and have quite a few members who are black, hispanic, native american, mixed race, asian, etc? White supremacist organizations do not accept non-whites. Something to keep in mind. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 9:23:21 AM | these worthless illegal mexican immigrants that have destroyed their own lands and are coming here and destroying these lands
Ah just a small question. Since the "poor" Mexicans don't own any of the land or have any power in their Gov't, how is it that they destroyed it?
Would it not be the Greedy, Rich, Elitist that have "destroyed" things and forced the Poor to look else where?
Please lets Stop blaming the victims. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 9:42:58 AM | nicktom...your correct, there was no legal process at that time, only charter grants for exploration of the new worlds....my point to my whole post was this...We are all immigrants, some have been here longer than others. Some have made more sacrifices and shed blood for this great country, but all who have come here from the beginning of the settling of this country or later, have paid dues to be here.
The OP was saying her forefathers had been here for a long time also and I was just pointing out that some of the rest of us, our forefathers have been here a long time also. Much blood has been shed by many, to have the country and freedoms we so enjoy. Those are called DUES. I for one and my family have great Patriotism for this country we call our home.
Over the years there have been established laws and legal guide lines for entering this country, just as in all countries of the world. What is past, is past, meaning 200, 300 years ago or longer. We can not change the past, only live in the present. Laws of immigration have evolved to meet the now times and that is what we must deal with and concentrate on. What is best for our country and people NOW....
Yes, it is upsetting to me, to hear people who enjoy these freedoms we have, put our country down, disrespect the people who are descendants of the people who sacrificed and worked hard to make it what it is and the life styles we enjoy. Its also upsetting to me, to see people come here illegally and disrespect us, our country and our laws . I have no problem at all with legal immigration but I do take exception to LAWBREAKERS WHO DEMAND RIGHTS, THEY ARE NOT ENTITLED TO and disrespect our country and its people, in their living habits.
Laws are in place for a reason. We can not pick and chose which to abide by or we will only have chaos and infringement on others rights.
People who say, its better to be living in another country....I say to them....maybe its time they relocated there.
But if your an AMERICAN, you owe your LOYALTY and PATRIOTISM to your country AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE SACRIFICES, SO YOU COULD HAVE THE FREEDOMS YOU ENJOY HERE. It's that simple. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 9:47:13 AM | Trew...." Mexicans don't own any of the land or have any power in their Gov't"
You are absolutely wrong in that statement....you need to do some research and get your facts correct.....before you make statements that are so incorrect..... | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 3:22:12 PM | Jumpingrainddrops
I agree with you on the part about helping Mexico recover its economy. In my amateur assessment think building the fence would be the first thing we should do to spur them to do their part.
Schwarzenegger said something to that effect about helping Mexicos economy, not the fence part.
Give a man a fish you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish you feed him for life.
I think those who jumped on you for suggesting what you did like to be in control of other people. They like to feed the man the fish and not teach him to fish. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 43 | |
| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 4:22:59 PM | There's preliminary reports coming in now that all illegals living in
the United States today will be given amnesty. 11 million to 20 million
are now going to be fast-tracked to full citizenship?
People blame the liberals but look who's in office today and look what
happend TODAY. Enough with the BS.......again, the Republicans
TODAY May 17th, 2007 are going to give AMNESTY to up to
20 million Mexican citizens here illegally.
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 5:54:59 PM | e-wok,
Yeah, Bush(and Rove) has alot of blame here to take. However, the republicans in the House of representatives blocked the bill last year called S. 2611 that would have given amnesty for close to 20 million illegals(official number given by the government was much lower), it might end up being up to them again to block it again this year, if they can. Most of them are firmly opposed to any immigration reform bill that grants amnesty to illegal aliens. If not for them, we'd already have amnesty in 2006. If you want to be mad at republicans, be mad at the republicans in the senate, even though a majority of senate republicans opposed it in 2006.
Who you should really be mad at is democrats in the senate(quite a few democrats in the house also have weak records when it comes to illegal immigration too). In last years immigration reform bill that was to grant amnesty which the house republicans blocked, it passed the senate with a vote of 62 yes, 36 no. 32 out of 55 republicans voted against it. Only 4 out of 42 democrats voted against it.
Don't believe it? Look at this link:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00157
With this new immigration bill announced today that will grant amnesty, its not yet come to a vote in the senate(most senators have not even read the bill yet), so we cannot place blame yet on individual senators.
Bottom line is, don't fully blame one party or the other, blame individual candidates from both parties who are weak on illegal immigration. Find out which ones deserve criticism(including presidential candidates for 2008) by going to this link to a non-partisan site which grades candidates based on their voting records on immigration matters:
http://www.betterimmigration.com/reportcardintro.html
When you find out who the ones with the poor records are, vote them out of office. Vote for the ones with strong records. If everyone did that, the illegal immigration problem would be solved. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 45 | |
| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 6:13:30 PM | Even though Whisper is a nasty, mean spirited, venemous woman.....I agree with what she's said on this subject.
Diva, I'm not going to attack your viewpoint because I think that you are honestly a good person. I think that you really beleive it would solve many of our problems if we opened the borders completely. However, I also think that you are painfully idealistic. Even if america dropped its agenda of hate, the rest of the world would not follow suit. THe ideas that you've proposed would work FINE if humanity had an evolved spirituality, but they do not. The vast majority of humans are more concerned with feeding themselves than with anything else. Of the ones that have the food surplus to "think big thoughts" instead of taking care of their basic needs, the vast majority is more concerned with solidifying their ability to retain their power and secure their genetic future.
I'd love to live in a world where everyone could move freely, where people respected each other, and where love was the byword instead of it being distrust. However, we are not ready (as a species) for that world just yet. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 6:18:23 PM | I think it was the OP who said in a post that there should be no borders.
Human nature dictates: One person = No Borders. Two people = Borders in some shape form or fashion.
Borders have existed as long as the Earth has been around.
Animals/Mammals/Humans are territorial = Borders.
Geographical layout = Borders.
Animals/Mammals/Human plus Geographical layout = Borders.
Deal with reality.
All Countries have rules and regs which dictate who can become a citizen, who can stay for any extended period of time in their land. America should be no different.
We should (as all Countries should and I can think of several which do not) treat the illegals with basic human dignity and expedite their departure back to where they came from...quickly and efficiently.
Deal with reality.
Use common sense. If you do, the above makes sense.
It is...as...it is. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 8:50:11 PM | Since the Americas encompass North and South America, I guess apologies are due from far north as Canada and as far south as Argentina. Then again since the majority of people living in the Americas, have been immigrants in one way or another, we all owe each other an apology.
In the words of Ricky Ricardo (cuban immigrant), someone has some 'splainin' to do!" | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 10:01:19 PM | Trew....I assure you, I did not leave out the word "poor" on purpose...it was an oversight. But consider this, even a lot of "poor" Mexicans own their homes and land they sit on. I agree their standards of living are not the same as ours. Where you and I, or your parents, most likely live in middle income homes, their housing would be akin to our lower income housing, that even working class Americans live in.
I know here and have talked to many Hispanics, who have bought land and are building homes in Mexico, with the money they make working in the USA, with the intent to return there. Lots of those homes are nicer than some working class citizens in the USA can afford. Also the cost of living is far less there than here. A Mexican can come here and work for 3 years, save their money, go back to Mexico and live for 5 years with out having to work...and live just fine an enjoy a nice quality of life an extended vacation.
With all the taxes taken out of an Americans paycheck to pay for city, state and federal cost and city infrastructure, I would like to see the day any of our lower working class people could work 3 years and take a nice long stress free vacation for 5 years. It ain't happening.......You will go to work every day of every year of your life, except for maybe a two week vacation, if you are lucky.....and if your extra lucky and you can save enough after taxes to afford to leave your home and go some place.
Have you personally ever traveled into Mexico and I don't mean just across the borders? I made a trip down to Rocky Point, Mexico a few years ago and there were many nice homes, working class Mexicans lived in. Granted, the streets were dirt and no curbing and I didn't observe any sewage treatment plants, but they certainly had electricity and running water. Even in our communities, its the cities, through taxes and state funds that pave the streets, build the city infrastructure, lay the city services.
And I think we can all agree, the Mexican country has resources that are being gathered...ae oil and other natural products that someone is getting rich off of. You nor I can force the Mexican Government to provide those civil luxuries to their populations. Only the Mexican populous can change the infrastructure of their own country.
I have an American friend, living way down in Mexico. He lives in a two room suite in a hotel (a very nice one) there with daily maid service and only pays $8.00 a day for his living quarters. He has sent me many videos taken in the area and its not a high tourist area. He tells me how well the Mexicans live there and what a great quality of life they have. In no way do they have to deal with the stress most of us deal with on a daily bases. And videos of their homes....Aw some...I would gladly trade with them. Their gardens are beautiful, the homes clean and well cared for and roomy. No they dont have wall to wall carpeting, fancy expensive furniture, or two car garages...but they are well laid out, open to the outdoors with court yards and nicely decorated.
We Americans have been brain washed to think all Mexicans from Mexico live in slums and squallier....an judging from the border towns one might think so....but think of the slum areas in big cities right here in the USA ...that's a comparison. But away from the border towns...its a different story.
The Mexicans coming here to work, is similar to an American going over seas for a high paying job that then would allow them to return here, money in pocket, buy a business or just live off those savings for several years.
When I have spent time in AZ in the winter, many USA people go across the border into Mexico for dental work, done by American trained, Mexican Dentist, in very modern dental offices with the latest equipment and technology. You know why? Because they can get the work done for 10% of the cost of having it done in the USA.
It might be wise for everyone to do some research and gain facts....before people just assume something and take it to be factual. | |
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