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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 10:14:36 PM |
But if your an AMERICAN, you owe your LOYALTY and PATRIOTISM to your country AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE SACRIFICES, SO YOU COULD HAVE THE FREEDOMS YOU ENJOY HERE. It's that simple.
I pulled only this part of several of your posts. The other portions ring just as true as this which is in quotes.
Kudos on expressing a thought process logically and reasonably. Well stated and very true! | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/17/2007 10:27:18 PM | Ender....I believe you described yourself this way...... "lover of booze and boobs. Hedonistic cynic with a large amount of bile to spit at the world.
Trying REALLY hard to hold onto those last tidbits of childhood in the face of a rampant onslaught of adulthood."
Ender.....Even though Whisper is a nasty, mean spirited, venemous woman"
I can only surmise that statement was made in regard to dialog between myself and diva and xemicangirl, since I have never addressed you before.......And I can only guess you have not read the threads in their entirety and seen how disrespectful and vulgar those two have been to other posters in other threads. so it does not surprise me that you would let your rude tongue make an ass out of yourself.....
Some people find it difficult to defend themselves against rude vulgar people....me being older....I say bring it on and I will defend them. I have broad shoulders and have learned that the only way you can back the nastiness off....is to get right back in their faces, in the same manner they come at you and others.
I never start the nasty tone, but sometimes one just has to get down on someone else's level to get their attention.......and some people....ARE AT TIMES...so self centered and rude....you can only address them in the same tone as what comes out of their mouths.
So I am sorry if I offended you or others.....it was not address to you or them.... But before you make judgements.....you should read the complete dialogs, of the entire threads.
But yes.......I can be a ****, if that is the side someone else shows to me and others. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 1:49:40 AM | | Ok now here is you big answer the lands were destroyed from garbage that is just thrown out anywhere junk that they do not want gets tossed out on the side of a road or in a creek, river or lake and it does'nt matter to them if it's destroyed they look for some place else. And by the way they do have power in their goverment to do something but it wont why you may ask weel they are encouraging them to come to the US and screw the US goverment and it's people by sending the money back there they are not forced to look elsewhere they are looking for someplace to get as mush as possible for free not have any responsibility for cleaning anything up after their done with it. They are not victims they are nothing but destroyers as they have always done! | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 7:53:32 AM | Thanks to everyone for responding. Whether we agree or not is of little consequences. Its the conversation thats the goal.
How do you define freedom? is it by how many things you can buy and what is allowable verbally?
I owe my freedom to no one other than myself. The men and women in Iraq are not fighting for my freedom from the big bad wolfe. They are fighting for our politicians in Washington for oil and a stabilizing effect in the middle east. We tried with the creation of Israel but those damned palestinians just won't relent.
Remember....you only look over your back when you know you've done something that may cause un-pleasant consequences. Like when you're speeding and think you see a cop behind you. From that point foward, you keep checking that mirror like a crack fiend that got away with a kilo of coke.
Other than Pearl Harbor and 9/11, when have we ever been attacked? Turn that figure around with how many missles, clusters, bombs we've dropped on others? Your policiticans say its because of the bad people trying to take our freedom away from us. We have to strike the enemy first, pre-emptive planning eh?
We are de-humanized to the effects of war because we rarely have to experience the consequences of the actions our leaders have made. Did you really think we could go around bombing the dog shyt out of everyone and never have to face the music? Do you really buy this whole "Terrorist" label on the arab world?
I checked the current US population figure:
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
We are at 301,868,802 and growing. Out of which, roughly 301,000 people have left the country. Most during the late 70's and 80's (the current figure population total also includes newborns and the elderly) .
That means that pretty much everyone that asserts we are the best country in the world, we do things fairly and justily and under the auspices of democracy has never been to another country to test that theory out. So you really don't know if you are in fact, living in a democracy or if maybe we are appeased by big TV's, the ability to acquire money and possessions so easily.
What again, is your idea of freedom and democracy. If we had true democracy we'd be able to walk into the congress or senate floor and demand answers to the current gas price fiasco. If we were democratic there would not be one child left to starve tonite.
If we were truly democratic, as the image we love to project to the world, and the image that we virtually DEMAND from every other country (you know, to do business with) then education, which is now being used as qualification factors for just about every job, then education would be a right, not an option based on your finances and need.
The HighPriestess:
She knows everything. All the secrets of the known and unknown. The thoughts of men, women, children, animals and the things that go bump in the night. Yet, she says very little.
She will give you a little spark of madness. She will make every single hair stand up on the back of your head...and even if for a second...she will get you connected to the source of answers that you seek.
But she never tells you everything. She's eslusive and maddenning all at once. Her job is to bridge the concious with the sub-concious. Then, just like a whisper, she is gone.
Diva | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 11:46:28 AM | Washington, D.C., Federation for American Immigration Reform [FAIR], 1992. 64 p.
Abstract:
The advances of agriculture, transportation, medicine, and sanitation have changed the way in which nature balances population growth. Human policy must now perform the functions performed by nature. Immigration is a means of population control, a way to keep labor costs down for the recipient country, and a way of sharing national wealth. However, reducing a developing country's population by emigration does not insure that fertility will decline. In the US, accelerating immigration is a major cause of population growth. The question is raised about whether Americans who are outnumbers 20:1 already should open their doors for the "poverty of an absolutely equal distribution." The position is that 250 million, the present population count, is sufficient to exploit the country's available resources. Maps and discussion follow on world population growth trends for 1950-2025 (size and growth of world population, net population increases, urban and rural population, number of births, women of reproductive age and fertility levels, population pyramids for more and less developed regions, the excess of births over deaths, and size of labor force). The ethics of US immigration policy in an overpopulated world is discussed. Stabilization of US population should be a desirable end, which is attainable if immigration is halted properly. 3 million/year are added to the population of which 50% are immigrants or children of immigrants. One projection is that 15 million or the equivalent of 2 New York Cities will be added during the 1990s. Coastal areas such as California are particularly affected. Public policy must become anticipatory. The current problems of unemployment, crime, health, care, education, poverty, pollution, and national unity are acerbated by additional population growth. The US already impacts significantly on the environment. The US should be a model of a sustainable society. Every nation must balance its own population. Additional maps include energy consumption by region and the US, US population 1890-1990, US coastal county growth since 1950, the Chesapeake Bay, Los Angeles Basin, Florida, forest loss in the Pacific Northwest, and irrigation and depletion of the Ogallala aquifer. Statistical tables are also supplied for a variety of population, demographic, economic, and environmental data.
The above really should be the main consideration, not whose ancestors were legal or how fast they learned English. Most people considered China a country slightly larger than the US, overpopulated at 1 billion people. We are at 300 million people today, what is going to be the stopping point?
Maybe someday when we drop this whole "greatest country in the world" crapola that we're taught in schools, we will no longer be expected to be the world's savior, and hopefully become less medlesome for our benefit. Work on our own country in this best way we can, and let other countries take care of their problems.
Mexico needs to take care of Mexico, as a Democrat I am staunchly against the legalization of illegal immigrants, this is a travesty to the rule of law in this country, and only encourages further lawbreakings. Both political parties should share the blame if this bill passes. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 5:56:50 PM | My grandmother came off the point on Florida in the late 1800's. My grandfather ran away from an indian reservation as a child and married her.
Well, my grandmother is half polish and german and my grandfather is italian and irish. Yeah, they came over to the US in the late 1800's.
Interesting...your grandfather was itialian and irish, yet he ran away from the indian reservation as a child to marry your grandmother, and yet again, they both came over to the US in the late 1800's...
You walk around looking at us as though you are giving me a break by allowing me to pick fruit from a tree for $3.00 an hour. Or while I do grunt construction work for $5.00 while my superior white counterpart makes $75.00 for that same hour.
Most fruit pickers get paid by the amount they pick, not hourly, and as far as construction workers go, they accept the low wages because they are ILLEGAL and let theirselves be paid the low wages, however, $5.00 an hour WITHOUT paying taxes is better than $7.00 an hour and PAYING taxes. And where the hell you got the $75.00 an hour from is beyond me as if making that, they are not going to even be on the job site.
me and my fathers, and grandfathers were living and walking on this land,
Thats just a stupid statement as your only 34, or so you say.
I'm here to finish up my masters and thats it.
And we will be glad when you leave.
PLEASE, don't waste any effort to apologize for me as I have nothing to apoligize for... | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 57 | |
| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 6:06:59 PM | Sometimes it's the country that owes immigrants an apology.....my
father built airplanes overseas and was an engineer making some
serious coin. Back then, Canada was actively "recruiting" immigrants
to come to Canada for a "better life" and he accepted the challenge - not that
his life in his fatherland was bad - it was going brilliantly - but he's always
up for new challenges and wanted to see Canada and the government kept
pushing the hard sell: WEALTH, clean air, vast opportunities....so
he figures upon his arrival that he'd start building planes - WRONG! He
needs to recertify...but first, he has to learn English and save money
for school and work at the same time, then, he needs to take university
courses blah blah blah.........it's the same friggin thing today; did you
know that MOST taxi drivers in Vancouver are either engineers or
doctors or phd's?? They got lured by the same BS my father did.
He didn't regret it because he ended up creating his own company
and within 15 years he owned over $1 million in houses....that was back
in the early 70's. Today, gov'ts still need to bring in young people and
sometimes they'll lie to bring you here or turn a blind eye and allow
illegals slip in through the back door.
I'm sure he's long forgiven the government of the day. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 6:59:39 PM | | The countries or goverments do not owe any immigrant especially illegal immigrants an apology. If some of these taxi drivers are doctors or engineers and drive taxi for a living I shurley would'nt want one of them doing surgery on me or designing something for me, if they have been taken in by some scam, that only shows how brilliant they really are! | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 7:27:32 PM | hi black bi diva,
Nice post, i like your attitude and style. Keep up the good work, I think I understand what you are talking about.
I gave up on my Canadian nationality a long time ago, when Canada helped bomb Baghdad during Gulf War I. As can we see now it was a manufactured media war created by the Military Industrial Banking Media Religious Complex and packaged, produced and promoted by Hill & Knowlton.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Citizens_for_a_Free_Kuwait
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_for_a_Free_Kuwait
http://archives.cjr.org/year/92/5/war.asp
These same people are still selling us a false truth about the war in Afghanistan, Iraq, immigration, climate change and debt.
How long before all wake up? How long before "we the people" are all free?
I send you love black bi diva, keep up the good fight!
wage love, bwd | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 8:13:19 PM | Diva
"They are fighting for our politicians in Washington for oil and a stabilizing effect in the middle east."
That claim never stands up to the stats. Look up Iraqs oil production before the war. Lets optmistically multiply that figure by 3 and see if the war will pay for itsself in your lifetime.
We are a republic, always were.
The United States gets most of its donations from private donors. In Europe its mostly from the government. So yes, there is initaitive here in the U.S.
Had we pre-emptively attacked Germany in 1935 the lives of six million Jew would have been saved, not to mention millions of civilians and combatants ( figures range from 30 to 60 million). Yet you would count on people claiming that were acting like bullies. Others would be appalled at the loss of hundreds of thousands. Youre damned if you do your damned if you dont.
Is Iraq definitely saving us from something bad by keeping the fight over there? I dont know. You seem so certain in your convictions. The type of certainty I usually see in far right religious types. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 9:58:10 PM | Diva....
You keep referring to OUR COUNTRY (meaning the rest of us who are US Citizens)....hummmm maybe your not even an American Citizen....just playing a game of truths/falsie's here.
Irregardless....many of your statements and the manner in which you express yourself, indicate a person who is lower educated, uninformed and not knowledgeable on current events or is just plain STUPID...... Certainly not the presentation of someone who has a College Degree.
You claim to be working on an advanced college degree... but most High School students are better informed on facts and more professional in presenting their dialog.. You spout off claims, but we see no documentation to verify your post. Most of your post, indicate an uninformed, irrational thinking person....who just makes up things to try to blow smoke up someone else's ass.......nothing substantial......
You have spun so many different tales, contradicted some of your post so many times and shown such disrespect for the Country you claim to call home, that I just realized........what a waste of time even acknowledging you.
.Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I for one, think I will just call a spade a spade.......and say you know little about the discussion your trying to engage in, as far as any thing factual or educated......AND IGNORE YOU. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/18/2007 10:13:06 PM | e-wok...."Sometimes it's the country that owes immigrants an apology.....my
father built airplanes overseas and was an engineer making some
serious coin. Back then, Canada was actively "recruiting" immigrants
to come to Canada for a "better life" and he accepted the challenge "
"but first, he has to learn English and save money
for school and work at the same time, then, he needs to take university
courses blah blah blah........."
Isn't it the one wishing to "accept the challenge" to do the necessary investigation into whither they are qualified or not for that which they reach for. If another country is here recruiting people to fill specialized jobs, they advertise, I apply....saying I am qualified......is it their fault....if in fact I do not speak their language, dont have the necessary credentials to work in that profession in their country.......or is it mine...for not checking out the experience and qualifications required for the job they offer.....?????
I dont see where it would be to their benefit to hire me....if in fact I dont fit their requirements.....but I can see myself enhancing my abilities, to take advantage of their offer....if I feel in the long run it would benefit me. That is ......if I was inclined to over enhance my abilities to gain what I want. But then, I'm not. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/19/2007 5:01:03 PM | Who is the "you" YOU are referring to in your posting? The subject was ILLEGAL immigrants. Look up what ILLEGAL means in the dictionary. My grandmother came here LEGALLY from the Czech Republic. My grandfather came LEGALLY from Germany. They SPOKE English and WORKED and did NOT expect a handout from the government NOR did they have a CHIP on their shoulder talking about things that happened before their time. They came here for a better LIFE and they worked for what they had. I am proud of my heritage but do not go around acting as a martyr for things that happened hundreds of years ago. I live for TODAY and what I do today I hope improves my tomorrow. I take what I learned from yesterday but I am not equipped to talk about what happened before the year I was born in with any authority. I was not there.
Again, the topic was ILLEGAL immigrants. OH, my grandmother's mother (who also came her LEGALLY) was a slave in her country...and she is WHITE. And for a time, she worked in the FIELDS as did I, during the gathering seasons. Get over yourself. Pride is one thing...when you have an obvious chip on your shoulder it does nothing but shows your lack of pride. | |
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| Msg. #65 was for DIVA
Posted: 5/19/2007 5:05:49 PM | | Thank you to all of you who tried to bring this forum back to what it was supposed to be about...ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.... | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 68 | |
| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/19/2007 5:09:35 PM | Whisper, why the hell would you apologize for offending people? Personally I like mean spirited venemous people. I feel that they are FAR more honest that the bleeding heart suck ups that society seems to encourage us all to be.
Yes, I read how idiotic they can be.....they weren't even worth trying to have a "debate" with if you get my drift. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 69 | |
| Msg. #65 was for DIVA
Posted: 5/19/2007 7:10:34 PM | Thank you to all of you who tried to bring this forum back to what it was supposed to be about...ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS....
With some people...illegal or legal it's all the same. They'd still suffer the
scorn of the ignorant looking to blame somebody else for their lot in life. Going back
to my dad, he was here legally and his broken English earned him
ridicule....he was very resourceful like many immigrants, legal or illegal.
They come here with nothing and created wealth for themselves and often
times without speaking a word of english and even while they lacked
university education.......the real question IMO would be; how STUPID
does a native born have to be to allow an illegal or legal immigrant to
rise up above him. Why can't the native born excel with all the privelages
and advantages this country practically hands them?
To all those that ridicule the spirit of a new comer......you'll always be at
the bottom of the food chain; with or without "them." | |
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| Msg. #65 was for DIVA
Posted: 5/19/2007 9:59:12 PM | e-wok...."They come here with nothing and created wealth for themselves"
"the real question IMO would be; how STUPID
does a native born have to be to allow an illegal or legal immigrant to
rise up above him. Why can't the native born excel with all the privelages
and advantages this country practically hands them? "
Usually with immigrants...its the ones with the most drive and ambition for material things that make the decision to immigrate to a country where they can accomplish what they cant in their birth country.... I do admire the discipline and drive most immigrants have. They make many sacrifices.
But...there are many people who do not put value in just amassing material things and money.
For some, the goal is to be of service to others, nurses, doctors who work in under served poor communities, foster parents who dedicate their lives to helping children with out parents, not for the money paid to them to shelter these children, but for what they give to these kids, of themselves, to help them feel loved and have an opportunity in life. Foster parents who assume the responsibility of raising and being a family for handicapped children or those born to parents who for what ever reason, have no maternal aptitude for raising the children they bring into this world.
Many well educated people, work in very underpaid jobs, when they could be commanding higher salaries, but they do it for what they can give to others. Teachers who could draw higher salaries in other professions, but choose to teach, out of their love for children.
Not everyone is after the All Mighty Dollar, or all the property and money they can count up on their financial statement. Some can only see their own self worth in the dollars on their personal financial statements.
Those are the ones I consider to be at the bottom of the food chain.....the greedy ones. The ones who walk all over everyone.....just to get to what they consider the top of the pile.....or look down on people who dont have the list of assets...they themselves do.
Some people...find their satisfaction and self worth......in being good parents and putting their families first... | |
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| Msg. #65 was for DIVA
Posted: 5/20/2007 12:31:22 AM | | As far as "educated people work in underpaid jobs" my personal out look is a jobs pay should be based on the amount of acutal work done..sitting at a desk does not constitute as work..slinging a sledge hammer in mud to your knees..thats work. I work in the oilfield myself, and make damn good money but am luckier in that area then most. Also as a former student at The University of Texas, I know what its like to work/sit behind a desk. and neither come anywhere close to each other. Also being born in Honduras I understand immigration, Im a Naturalized Citizen..legal, have the rights of a native born..Its understandable to have someone want to better themselfs..but theres a reason immigration laws where put into effect in the first place, thats why all countrys have them..thats why you cant hop into just any country in the world, thus passports and visas. Illegal immigration encourages greed for the ability to get dirt cheap labor, not provide benifits and for the most part not hear one complaint about anything, As an American, I apolgize to other Americans for not doing more to close down the border from illegals | |
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| Msg. #65 was for DIVA
Posted: 5/20/2007 1:45:20 AM | An illegal immigrant:
1. Can be abused, mistreated and humiliated
2. Be paid below a minimum wage
3. Are easily exploited
4. They have no power whatsoever
5. Their illegal status prevents them from approaching the law.
6. At any moment a 'legal' citizen can expose them
7. etc….
So why do legal citizens fear an 'illegal' immigrant that they have total power over?
If it's because they are 'illegal' then why are legal citizens employing them, to be maids, baby sitters, gardeners, odd job persons, laborers, field workers, etc?
If a country doesn’t want the current type of illegal immigrant (i.e money driven) then ‘legal’ citizens shouldn’t employ them and feed them the very dollar that they are coming for.
I think the questions that need to be answered are:
Who are going to do the jobs that the illegal immigrants do?
Who is going to accept poor wages (these wages go under the radar of government, so legislation may have no effect)?
Even if you eradicate poverty, that may not eradicate illegal immigration because the pursuit of happiness may result in a different kind of illegal immigrant, that is, a person leaving their country to experience freedoms they cannot enjoy there.
Illegal immigration is as old as the first human beings going away from the familiar irrespective of whether they are welcomed in the place they are going or not. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 5/20/2007 7:06:44 PM |
But if your an AMERICAN, you owe your LOYALTY and PATRIOTISM to your country AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE SACRIFICES, SO YOU COULD HAVE THE FREEDOMS YOU ENJOY HERE. It's that simple. []/quote] I think 99.99 of Americans feel that way; in fact I would say it is the strongest characteristic of most Americans...  | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/8/2007 2:53:33 AM | Apology accepted but may not be needed. However, in thinking about immigrants technically every single person came from somewhere, viewing their ancestors, came from another country at one point to emigrate to the United States, which has been long known as the "land of opportunity", or to another country for a better life or opportunity to achieve.
I am not sure about South America, and Central America but there seems to be still a major interest to go to North America? Your thoughts please. | |
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| May all the immigrants accept my apologies for americas
Posted: 6/8/2007 8:14:03 AM | Message #59:" hi black bi diva,
Nice post, i like your attitude and style. Keep up the good work, I think I understand what you are talking about.
I gave up on my Canadian nationality a long time ago, when Canada helped bomb Baghdad during Gulf War I. As can we see now it was a manufactured media war created by the Military Industrial Banking Media Religious Complex and packaged, produced and promoted by Hill & Knowlton. "
Giving up your citizenship would lend credence to that empty statement about nationality. | |
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