|
|
|
|
|
| |
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 2:55:53 PM |
Another great point that will, no doubt, go by the wayside... for some.
Skypoetone! Don't think that way... And might I say Stones said that after he read
Sure Jesus saves... but have you saved anyone lately? I feel the proverb that Solomon gave us "He that is kind to the poor lends to his Maker" gives a peek into what the real fear of God is.
But you say...
All the reward any benevolent being needs is to practice what it has (written) preached. If I can see this, and you obviously can too, why is there need to have fear?
My creator and savior practices through his children the spirit of the letter. There is great freedom in following the spirit instead of the letter. You are only looking of the surface when it is clear you have an even greater understanding than those who claim to practice the letter but don't have the spirit.
The fear of God is a kind of admittance that letting go and letting God do his will in us and through us is the best possible option. Those who have no fear of God do not seek truth and can barely admit that truth exsist... they go about establishing their own truth. So we discuss in this forum with no common point of reference and I fear God has no real part in it. (pardon the pun, just had to do it...) But seriously... do you really think that the phrase itself was meant to be interpreted by itself? | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 3:28:43 PM | The fear of God is a kind of admittance that letting go and letting God do his will in us and through us is the best possible option.
That's exactly what I do, except that "God" to you would be "Dharma" or "Tao" for me... But The Dharma/Tao is not self aware(except through us) and is free of intent(except for ours), so there is no "being" in charge of me, and I certainly won't fear my own wrath... Or anyone elses... Please remember all, this is just MY take... I don't know the truth...
I don't see how admitting that letting God do his work through you could be scarey for a believer... Unless they don't fully trust this god... I trust mine... Without intent there can be no true betrayal... Just change... No good to fear change... Change is everything... I'd like to add that there is a big difference between fear and respect.
Those who have no fear of God do not seek truth and can barely admit that truth exsist... they go about establishing their own truth.
Nonsense(no offence)... They just know that the source of any TRUE knowledge comes from within ones self... Those that settle for anothers truth stop searching and the truth I think, is in the search. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 3:42:36 PM |
Skypoetone! Don't think that way... And might I say Stones said that after he read…
Sure Jesus saves... but have you saved anyone lately? I feel the proverb that Solomon gave us "He that is kind to the poor lends to his Maker" gives a peek into what the real fear of God is.
What? I was simply responding to Stones quote. If Sones (and I’m sure he will clarify) was in turn making a response to something else, then I can't see where… not that it had any relevance to what I was saying at any rate.
But you say...
All the reward any benevolent being needs is to practice what it has (written) preached. If I can see this, and you obviously can too, why is there need to have fear?
And, as logic consideration dictates, I stand by it.
The fear of God is a kind of admittance that letting go and letting God do his will in us and through us is the best possible option.
Fist, one has to be open to that possibility. I think it contradicts itself with the freedom of will. Example… If ‘free will’ is a given and God dictates how you use it, it is not free.
…So we discuss in this forum with no common point of reference and I fear God has no real part in it. (pardon the pun, just had to do it...) But seriously... do you really think that the phrase itself was meant to be interpreted by itself?
Like I’ve said before, on many occasions, fear is not the way to go. A teacher that uses fear tactics isn’t respecting the pupil. Love is showing a willingness to be heard by both. So a Creator, of any magnitude, would also understand this. The interpretation of anything comes from one’s perspective… how many do you think there are on the biblical scriptures today? And what makes anyone of them the truth?
| |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 4:14:56 PM | What? I was simply responding to Stones quote. If Sones (and I’m sure he will clarify) was in turn making a response to something else, then I can't see where… not that it had any relevance to what I was saying at any rate.
I'm pretty sure you knew where I was coming from Sky... And I thank you for the compliment!
 | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 4:33:20 PM |
I don't see how admitting that letting God do his work through you could be scarey for a believer... Unless they don't fully trust this god... I trust mine... Without intent there can be no true betrayal... Just change... No good to fear change... Change is everything... I'd like to add that there is a big difference between fear and respect.
And here's another... The great points just keep coming!
Stones... do you belong to my denomination or do I belong to yours? lol
Either way it’s not a dream or a fallacy. I know that whenever I have taught a subject, the integral part is to come down to the pupil’s level... not with a text book that has been rewritten and subverted by thousands of years. It simply dictates a love of understanding, one that can easily be comprehended by all. The respect comes from that truth and fear does not enter into it. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 5:02:40 PM |
It simply dictates a love of understanding, one that can easily be comprehended by all.
Oh... well I was beginning to think you didn't like me or my bible... hmmm, I've taught to parolee's fresh out of prison many of whom really didn't want to be listening to me teach about the bible. It was an interesting experience to say the least. I 've had similar conversations with them but many of them... though they reasoned as you do... had no moral leg to stand on save their own denial.
But I'm done. Suffice it to say that we will and do have alot of fear in us. Best to give that fear to God. After he takes it then it's his and then it will remain the Fear of God. And our sure reward? Freedom from sin, death and... | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 5:40:44 PM | statueman
Why the bleeding heart?
Oh... well I was beginning to think you didn't like me or my bible... hmmm, I've taught to parolee's fresh out of prison many of whom really didn't want to be listening to me teach about the bible. It was an interesting experience to say the least. I 've had similar conversations with them but many of them... though they reasoned as you do... had no moral leg to stand on save their own denial.
Even out of sarcasm this makes me wonder. I don't know how many cons would want to hear about a Godly fear of the kind that shows no favour to an unbeliever. I wouldn't. My time would have been served and the slate cleaned. IMO
But I'm done. Suffice it to say that we will and do have alot of fear in us. Best to give that fear to God. After he takes it then it's his and then it will remain the Fear of God. And our sure reward? Freedom from sin, death and...
The ball of contention continues to roll? I guess it does. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 6:48:46 PM |
I don't see how admitting that letting God do his work through you could be scarey for a believer... Unless they don't fully trust this god... I trust mine... Without intent there can be no true betrayal... Just change... No good to fear change... Change is everything... I'd like to add that there is a big difference between fear and respect.
Wow!!!! To say I agree wouldn't quite cover it!!
The whole fear of God thing seems ridiculous to me because I think God IS love.. unconditional, all-encompassing energy present and infusing everything, whether we are conscious of it or not..
Fear actually blocks the natural flow and infusion of the energy of love..
For when you feel fear, how can love be present?
It cannot
JMO | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 7:16:46 PM | Pfft. All this talk of kindness begetting kindness... how is that possibly a test of faith or a testament of will? It takes little effort to do what is right if you know you will receive something good in exchange... it is an ininitely more difficult task to do the right thing and now that only pain will reward you.
I've heard very religious people talk of doing God's work, helping the poor, buidling houses, donating to charity, all in the name of God, hoping to get themselves into Heaven. I find it detestble that they need a permanent, eternal reward to do the smallest of kindnesses. How much faith does a person need in order to give a hobo five bucks, if their reward is eternal joy?!
Selfishness is what it is. Fear of punishment/pain mixed with the desire for pleasaure. That's nothing more than a spiritual form of Pavlovian Conditioning. Mankind is better than that, or at least we have the potential to be. I say, don't do good because you think it makes Baby Jesus smile. Don't give what you have to those who don't out of fear of Damnation if you refuse. Do it simply because it is the right thing to do, and for no other reason than that... especially if doing so would cause you pain.
I've spent entire paychecks to help out 'friends' who would let me rot when they get back on their feet... but I do it anyway. I spend hours trying to console family members who think themselves superior to me and refuse to come to my aid if I ask it of them... but I do it anyway. This isn't conditioning, this is living up to the potential that humanity has. Yes, I've ****ed up, too, but I refuse to allow my morality, my ethical code, to make me the equivalent of a drooling dog to an invisible, intangible, unknowable Pavlov. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 8:36:34 PM |
I don't know how many cons would want to hear about a Godly fear of the kind that shows no favour to an unbeliever. I wouldn't. My time would have been served and the slate cleaned. IMO
Well... some of these cons were volunteers and others were simply placating there parole agents. I work for the same organization now but in a different capacity. Teaching was fun but service is better for me since I tend to overthink and complicate everything.
But I like alot of what I read in this forum because at least you folks take the time to think about what you believe in. For myself I find that I am a believer in Christ but not most Christian doctrine that has been boiled down to the cliche's that folks looking for free meal or bed can spew out one after the other without batting an eyelash. But I'm in training to become a minister in the front lines mission field here in the states and I do believe that if an ex-armed robber gets ahold of the "Fear of the Lord" then his conscience at least makes him easier to catch if not changing him all together.
In my life I suppose there are similar applications of this...
But skypoetone, and I said I was done but you called me a bleeding heart! That's a heck of a thing to call a conservative like me! I forgot to put in the  or something to show I was joking at best, sarcasm is something I use less and less of...
because, well, you know... sarcasm tends to alienate people. And you brought the ball to the playground so I'll stick around and see who teams up.
and Sassy,
God is Love. I agree... but I do think I would tremble before him... to the very core of my being. I mean the Almighty is after-all... All Mighty and Moses was the only one courages enough to ask for his autograph. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/22/2007 9:14:15 PM |
and Sassy,
God is Love. I agree... but I do think I would tremble before him... to the very core of my being. I mean the Almighty is after-all... All Mighty and Moses was the only one courages enough to ask for his autograph.
I believe that love casts out fear, for as I said.. both fear and love cannot be present at once..
So then, doesn't your reaction and openness to the energy of Love/God become your choice??
You apparently tremble.. while I remove any filters and blockages that would make me feel such fear.. for I would rather feel the energy of love ;)
JMO | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 7:15:04 AM |
But skypoetone, and I said I was done but you called me a bleeding heart! That's a heck of a thing to call a conservative like me! I forgot to put in the or something to show I was joking at best, sarcasm is something I use less and less of...
because, well, you know... sarcasm tends to alienate people.
It was not a shot across your bows. It more a reaction, to consider the what you have already stated "...I like alot of what I read in this forum because at least you folks take the time to think about what you believe in."
God is Love. I agree... but I do think I would tremble before him... to the very core of my being. I mean the Almighty is after-all... All Mighty and Moses was the only one courages enough to ask for his autograph.
Moses was just another patsy, as the dogma dictates. And throughout all indoctrinations, so shall it be. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 7:21:26 AM | I believe that love casts out fear
What an odd thing to say, coming from someone who thinks so little of the Word of God...
1John 4:18
"For perfect love casts out fear"
It would seem that the two of you agree... | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 8:01:32 AM | 1John 4:18
"For perfect love casts out fear"
It would seem that the two of you agree...
If I may impose.
Perfect love has no need of fear, they are not the same thing are they? This, IMO, is the correct meaning of the phrase. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 8:12:06 AM | If you'll be so kind as to forgive my ignorance, Im not sure that I understand you.
If you could rephrase the statement/question? | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 8:25:19 AM | Perfect love has no need of fear, they are not the same thing are they? This, IMO, is the correct meaning of the phrase.
Yes I beleive you got the point, think it means that when you are in perfect love, meaning if you feel love in your heart for other people and you are selfless and a peacemaker and you hold other peoples best in mind along with your own, if you are in that position, then fear doesn't control you. because if one harbours hate for example....they most likely have fear in them also, because the two are related. Fear for ones ego, fear of how others view you , ect. But if you have love in you, then think about this, if you have love in you, that means you are not fearful , you are not anxious about other people because you love them. If you have love for someone for example, you don't fear them right? I mean generally speaking. When you have love that means you are not afraid because your being is running on love and compassion as opposed to hatred, lack of self-control, bitterness which all are related to fear. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 8:29:12 AM | disaronno amaretto
If you'll be so kind as to forgive my ignorance, Im not sure that I understand you.
If you could rephrase the statement/question?
Certainly
Let me put it to you this way... Can you love something you fear?
Something that dictates your every breath? Something so powerful it could crush your being in a second and not bat an eyelash? What kind of fear could be greater and more oppressive? The alternative would be to love... BUT if one is doing it ‘out of fear’ it is hardly genuine love, it is a love that fears the alternative.
Thus...
A perfect love has no need of fear.
Living-it-up ... get in there! | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 8:46:28 AM | My fear is that there may indeed be a God who designed this world and us, and e.g. the RC Church which advocates that we ought to propagate until the earth can no longer sustain us; who devised malaria, cancer and AIDS; and, in His own image, Genghis Khan, Pot Pol, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Islamic jihadists, &c.
| |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 9:10:49 AM | skypoet, I think that the "reason" that I cannot understand your "reasoning" is that I do not "reason" as you do. ..
Lets see.. I know of nothing or no one that has the ability to
dictate my every breath, powerful enough to crush me w/out batting an eye
that ever WOULD.
So, why or how would imagine such a thing?
I have NEVER loved out of fear.
Then again, I do not fear my God or those that I love.
I love them. No fear. Perfect love.  | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 9:11:16 AM | I agree that we tend to want to fit in with the world, but we are the majority of the world, especially the west, trend setters or followers. Fooling eachother.
Fearing god means, not oppression but awe, as before a mountain, standing on a narrow peak. Or the first man to view the Earth from orbit...
Wisdom is the intelligence of God and love then. The use of the commands in light of the NT and Peter and James and Paul and John, to solve problems...
God is light and love, wisdom by spirit, not flesh or wires. Love's intelligence, is wisdom and understanding. He is extremely powerful and to fear him means to be in awe of this in his presence so not to be overfamiliar.
Even Lucifer was not crushed suddenly as with the power of god. After times of intense rebellion Lucifer's body and source of pride was burnt. Right then to be in awe of god in his presence, not to pride and have rebel ambition...
Love drives away fear about god's plans and intent toward you. Warmth, healing, peace, in body, honour, heart, pleasure, design and function... | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 10:04:41 AM | It's a matter of the power of reasoning.
I'll leave you something that constitutes what I’ve been saying, though to get the understand you may need to read it all.
Part 3a: God Consolidates His Rule by Total Fear and Terror
Revolution #017, October 9, 2005, posted at revcom.us
A series submitted by A. Brooks, a reader of REVOLUTION newspaper
It is quite ironic that so many Evangelical Christians lament the abundance of "violent images" in Hollywood movies and video games when (a) these same Evangelical Christians have mobilized rabidly to support the mass slaughter of Iraqi people and the destruction of their towns by the U.S. military; and (b) when the very text these Christian fascists turn to as inspiration for "proper" morality is one of the bloodiest and most gratuitously violent books that has ever been written! And when one actually sits down and reads the Bible, there can be no doubt that, much like the passages about slavery mentioned in the previous installment in this series, the passages dealing with such violence are not mentioning it from a critical standpoint. On the contrary, the Bible is a tale of brutal death, relentless destruction, and tremendous human suffering initiated for the purpose of strengthening the rule of a leader who views himself as divine and all-powerful. Sound familiar?
rwor.org/a/017/god-original-fascist-pt3.htm | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 10:35:31 AM | The Bible is misrepresented in the quote from A Brooks.
Biblical violence is not gratuitous, there is even a book called Lamentations in it.
Biblical violence deals with injustice and halting rebellion, rebellion in favour of idolatry, adultery, murder and rape... to say the book is about murder and adultery, rape... is only valid as it tells historical stories, not the pleasure of god, Elohim.
He hated being angry, unfaithfulness in worship and sex, and the killing of people.
He is creator and source of life, he has the right to give or take life.
The injustices were catchy like fire and potentially meant the end of our whole race. Then like a Dr he had to decide between the analogical Siamese twins. Valid to read.
personally I see US senators as having the flaw of insecurity amidst passion for Americans over Iraqis and even Australians and Brits. Also I have a first place for Australia. It is a weakness. Israel was a service to our race.
The Bible is a forthright mix of history and judgement and hope and promise. Like readings today at uni, history, art, law, morale boosts, semantics, philosophy, relationship talk.. | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 2:24:28 PM | Csonka
Biblical violence is not gratuitous, there is even a book called Lamentations in it. Biblical violence deals with injustice and halting rebellion, rebellion in favour of idolatry, adultery, murder and rape... to say the book is about murder and adultery, rape... is only valid as it tells historical stories, not the pleasure of god, Elohim.
He hated being angry, unfaithfulness in worship and sex, and the killing of people.
I suggest you read message 7 in “Prayers, Deception and Indignation” | |
|
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/23/2007 4:47:23 PM | Mine:
I believe that love casts out fear
Yours:
What an odd thing to say, coming from someone who thinks so little of the Word of God...
1John 4:18
"For perfect love casts out fear"
It would seem that the two of you agree...
It is an odd thing for me to express a belief of my own? Why? Because it happens to match something from within the pages of the bible?
It is rather interesting to me that you find that odd
And who determines "the word of God?" The bible? I don't think so.. it is ONE source of what SOME people think is the word of God.. certainly not THE word..
Frankly I am proud that I have developed my own beliefs after a great many years of researching MANY sources of "truth".. not just one..
The point I was trying to make is that fear and love cannot be present at the same time.. therefore CHOOSING to fear God based on certain teachings is actually counterproductive to building a relationship with "him".. it creates an unecessary distance and negates the feeling and presence of Love/God..
JMO | |
|
|
| Page 3 of 7
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
|
Home
login 
